How does selling somebody a gay cake violate your religious freedom?

[Unclebaldrick]

I just caught a story about an Arizona law that would allow business owners to deny service based on their religious beliefs. I don't know if it was just the example used on the news or if it is an actual case being argued, but the law would allow a bakery to refuse to bake a cake for a gay couple if the bakery owners believe the gayness is aberrant to god.

Am I missing something? Is making somebody a cake aiding and abetting their gayness? It really sounds a lot more like denying them their civil rights to me just out of spite. But I would really like to hear the other side of this arguement. I could even conceive of businesses that have a much better arguement (probably still bad IMO) about excluding people. But a cake?

WTF? If I cut lawns or a living, I don't care if the homeowner is straight, gay, a Jew, black, or jazz aficionado. I'm gonna cut your fucking lawn and say thank you unless you personally fuck with me.

If this shit gets moved to politics, imma demand that about a dozen other threads do too.

 

[Unclebaldrick]

Not looking to sucker punch somebody here. I just don't get it.

 

[Singlemalt]

Its an interesting and scary case. Morally its reprehensible, and poor business practice. However if it became some type of law or regulation then there is an extreme measure of control added to the gov't. Just sayin

 

[UncleBuck]

But I would really like to hear the other side of this arguement.

since the cake makers in question are from my state, i'll go ahead and explain why the fine people of oregon don't allow businesses to deny services to gays. it's actually fairly simple.

oregon has a law that adds sexual orientation to the list of statuses protected by civil rights (the civil rights act of 1964 protected things like skin color, nationality, and the like).

oregon decided that a cake shop is not a religious institution. i think that's pretty clear to most people.

thus a cake shop can't deny a couple just because they are gay.

several states (arizona, kansas, and tennessee) have all started passing laws to get out ahead of this and protect bigotry. they'll probably get away with it too since none of them passed any laws protecting people from discrimination due to their sexual orientation. not that any of their cake shops are gonna have to worry about baking cakes for gays, since none of them allow gay marriage to begin with.

this is pretty disgusting stuff and the people who support it now will look pretty fucking silly in another 20-40 years, just as silly as the people pictured below.

 

[MojoRison]

You're right about this, it's a personal dislike cloaked in religion and the affront is that if does go before the courts {which it will} our collective lives will be cut shorter once more at the yoke of the ever oppressive...

 

[Sand4x105]

Are the states trying to argue that being gay is a religion ?
And deny them rights based on that...
So if being gay is a religion....
Would the gay priests in the gay religion still like alter boys, or not ?
Or would there now be a need for alter girls?

 

[Unclebaldrick]

since the cake makers in question are from my state, i'll go ahead and explain why the fine people of oregon don't allow businesses to deny services to gays. it's actually fairly simple.

oregon has a law that adds sexual orientation to the list of statuses protected by civil rights (the civil rights act of 1964 protected things like skin color, nationality, and the like).

oregon decided that a cake shop is not a religious institution. i think that's pretty clear to most people.

thus a cake shop can't deny a couple just because they are gay.

several states (arizona, kansas, and tennessee) have all started passing laws to get out ahead of this and protect bigotry. they'll probably get away with it too since none of them passed any laws protecting people from discrimination due to their sexual orientation. not that any of their cake shops are gonna have to worry about baking cakes for gays, since none of them allow gay marriage to begin with.

this is pretty disgusting stuff and the people who support it now will look pretty fucking silly in another 20-40 years, just as silly as the people pictured below.

The usual suspects. Sherrif joe can suck my...

But it's just a cake!

 

[Unclebaldrick]

You're right about this, it's a personal dislike cloaked in religion and the affront is that if does go before the courts {which it will} our collective lives will be cut shorter once more at the yoke of the ever oppressive...

Those folks need to smoke a j an' chill.

Do they seriously think they will someday face St. Peter and he will launch them into hell because they made some gay folks a cake?

 

[Singlemalt]

Maybe as a test case AZ can enact a law that states something about : Refusal to do service reasons must be prominently posted. Thus the business has to own it and everyone knows. Not hidden any longer.

That opens fantastic opportunities to learn a lot more about the community and its members

 

[UncleBuck]

Are the states trying to argue that being gay is a religion ?
And deny them rights based on that...
So if being gay is a religion....
Would the gay priests in the gay religion still like alter boys, or not ?
Or would there now be a need for alter girls?

ah, yes.

trying to equate homosexuality to pedophilia.

you don't need to prove to us that you are a bastion of ignorance. most of us figured that out already, old man.

 

[Adjorr]

as much as im against bigotry and discrimination i dont think the governement has the right to force a private buisness owner to do buisness with someone they dont want to. Even though the buisness owner is a douche bag for what they believe, the right to being a douche bag is part of being a free society

 

[Unclebaldrick]

as much as im against bigotry and discrimination i dont think the governement has the right to force a private buisness owner to do buisness with someone they dont want to. Even though the buisness owner is a douche bag for what they believe, the right to being a douche bag is part of being a free society

That go for colored folks too?

 

[Singlemalt]

as much as im against bigotry and discrimination i dont think the governement has the right to force a private buisness owner to do buisness with someone they dont want to. Even though the buisness owner is a douche bag for what they believe, the right to being a douche bag is part of being a free society

That's why I thought about a simple law about publically stating your reasons for refusing service, then let the market sort it out.

 

[Cannabis Kitty]

It seems deplorable to me that such a law should be passed in this country in 2014. It seems for each step forward we make in one area we take steps back in others. I wish "smokin" could help these people. Sadly, there are plenty fellow growers on RIU that are equally narrow minded. If it isn't "chiilin" them I doubt it would chill the heartless politicians.

 

[Unclebaldrick]

It seems deplorable to me that such a law should be passed in this country in 2014. It seems for each step forward we make in one area we take steps back in others. I wish "smokin" could help these people. Sadly, there are plenty fellow growers on RIU that are equally narrow minded. If it isn't "chiilin" them I doubt it would chill the heartless politicians.

Its ok kitty. The trend is in the right direction. These people are stupid, and eventually they will die off leaving fewer of their ilk. It's way better than 2000 years ago, or 200, or even 20.

 

[UncleBuck]

as much as im against bigotry and discrimination i dont think the governement has the right to force a private buisness owner to do buisness with someone they dont want to. Even though the buisness owner is a douche bag for what they believe, the right to being a douche bag is part of being a free society

have you ever heard the saying about "your right to swing your fist ends at my face"?

that's what civil rights laws are based on. the refusal of service to people wasn't some harmless action, it caused pain and suffering to others.

case in point: they stopped having to publish this book right after civil rights was passed

having one of these was a necessity for a black man in the south before civil rights was passed. it told them where they could go to get a meal, a hotel room, or gas for the same price as a white man.

i am personally not for a new series of green books for gay marrying couples in arizona or kansas or tennessee or wherever else people see fit to protect bigotry over civil rights.

 

[420God]

 

[fr3d12]

A dollar is a dollar regardless of who's pocket it comes out of, anyone refusing to do business with gays just because they're gay won't be in business too long.
I seriously can't believe that in 2014 these laws are in place.
For a country so advanced it couldn't be more backward on so many levels.
Hopefully common sense and decency prevails.

 

[Adjorr]

sorry i just dont believe the government should be able to tell you who your allowed to love or hate. Discrimination needs to be fought with education but when you start legislating what people are alowed to think and forcing people to do buisnss with people they dont want to youve gone to far.
I mean where does it end? Should i be forced to sell pot to my neighbours even if i dont like them?
You have to understand im not advocating racism or discrimination, but if they cant tell you who to love you cant tell them who to hate

 

[Adjorr]

and on the flip side for example if i own a store and i have a customer that comes in that i know is racist or homophobic and i dont want to do buisness with them, should i be legally forced to?