For Obama Supporters...

[VTXDave]

Since I imagine that some of you don't venture into the Politics Forum (of which I'm very active in), I have a question for those of you who intend on voting for him...

Just yesterday Bush signed his final war funding bill to the tune of 168 Billion dollars. This is his "last hurrah" for his Administration and the Senate passed it overwhelmingly. The bill allows for funding of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan well into 2009 (and the next Administration). Guess who voted in favor of funding this war? Wait for it...














Obama voted in favor of this bill. Here's the roll call of votes:
U.S. Senate: Legislation & Records Home > Votes > Roll Call Vote

As an aside, it also provides 400 million toward the "War on Drugs" regarding drug trafficking between the US and Mexico much of which is transport of marijuana. Isn't Obama for decriminalization?

So my question for you supporters of Obama:

How do you reconcile your anti-war and pro-drug stances against his proven voting record that clearly opposes your ideology?

 

[Wh00p]

so if you want weed legalized you say "yes, lets get the shit from mexico so that the U.S cant profit."

when the politicians say war against drugs, they mean war against outside drugs..

The U.S makes herioin..cocain and every other hardcore drug..

 

[VTXDave]

so if you want weed legalized you say "yes, lets get the shit from mexico so that the U.S cant profit."

when the politicians say war against drugs, they mean war against outside drugs..

The U.S makes herioin..cocain and every other hardcore drug..

I don't know. You tell me. I don't do drugs (but I fully support decriminalization), but I see a dichotomy here. Do you support Obama? Do you support the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? If you're against out wars but support Obama, how do you resolve the dichotomy of him voting for this bill. Couple that with his statement in his "Blueprint for America" to increase troop strength by an additional 100,000 troops and that sounds to me like a recipe for continued occupation and/or Empire building (Iran?).

If Obama intends to "decriminalize" marijuana then of course there'd be no need to fund an additional 400 million to stop drug traficking across Mexico, yes? If he is intent on decriminalizing marijuana then everyone would grow their own and smuggling across the US/Mexico border would cease, yes? Remember the Prohibition Act? It created a thriving smuggling operation across the US/Canada border. When Prohibition was killed, that operation ceased to exist.

Obama is pro war. Obama is anti drug. Resolve that.

 

[Pseudonym]

Obama is very much for decriminalization, and I fully support his support for funding against drug trafficking. I'd rather smoke my own stuff that I know is safe than to buy questionable shit from people who mix it with other things to increase their profit. Marijuana, cocaine, and X are great examples of drugs that are commonly cut with dangerous chemicals.

So let me grow my own so I can stay safe.

 

[VTXDave]

Obama is very much for decriminalization, and I fully support his support for funding against drug trafficking. I'd rather smoke my own stuff that I know is safe than to buy questionable shit from people who mix it with other things to increase their profit. Marijuana, cocaine, and X are great examples of drugs that are commonly cut with dangerous chemicals.

So let me grow my own so I can stay safe.

I guess you missed the point. If marijuana was decriminalized, drug trafficking would "go away" by itself. No need to fund a "war on drugs". Most of the drugs to cross the US border via Mexico is marijuana. The repeal of Prohibition proved that. I also noticed that you have not addressed his vote in favor of funding our continued military operations in Afghanistan and Iraq. Why is that?

One more thing...Did you catch the debate when the Dem candidates were asked to raise their hands if they were against decriminalization of marijuana? Obama raised his hand. Would you like a link?

 

[Pseudonym]

I guess you missed the point. If marijuana was decriminalized, drug trafficking would "go away" by itself. No need to fund a "war on drugs". Most of the drugs to cross the US border via Mexico is marijuana. The repeal of Prohibition proved that. I also noticed that you have not addressed his vote in favor of funding our continued military operations in Afghanistan and Iraq. Why is that?

One more thing...Did you catch the debate when the Dem candidates were asked to raise their hands if they were against decriminalization of marijuana? Obama raised his hand. Would you like a link?

No I understand your point, but I think you misunderstand what "decriminalization" means in a legal sense. I don't know how familiar you are with California or Alaska drug laws, but both states have decriminalized marijuana to some extent. Possession and growing of small amounts is either allowable under the law (Alaska) or punishable as misdemeanors (California) with minor fines. In California specifically it is considered to be on the same level as minor traffic violations.

Decriminalization means (in the United States) that possession, growing, or being under the influence of said decriminalized drug cannot be punishable as a felony. And this is what Obama has specifically stated: that marijuana use should not be punishable as a felony (need the link?).

Decriminalization does not cover trafficking for numerous reasons. The term "trafficking" necessarily implies large amounts. Obviously if someone was smuggling an 1/8th into the United States, it would not be considered trafficking. The purpose of trafficking laws is to dissuade and punish people who bring massive quantities of illegal drugs into the United States for the purpose of retail-like sale. I am very much in favor of punishing traffickers. They put some pretty dangerous drug concoctions on our streets. And this is what Obama voted for. Trafficking (including illegal drugs) also hurts our economy. People purchasing foreign goods for cheaper prices rather than the more expensive domestic products always hurts the economy. It's simple highschool macroeconomics. Just as it's illegal to traffic drugs, it's also illegal to traffic purses. You should've seen this amazing documentary on trafficking goods into the Untied States on the Discovery Channel a couple of weeks ago. One of the ports in New York City is owned by a mob family who the police have continuously failed at prosecuting for trafficking otherwise legal goods. Interesting stuff.

Anyways, anti-trafficking funding is never, has never, and probably will never be intended to stop small drug use in the United States. And this is where Obama's opinions on decriminalization come in: stop and prosecute the traffickers, but let the small guy grow an ounce or two.

I happened to miss all of the debates. They're useless really. Each candidate is going to pander to whichever group he or she currently doesn't have the favor of. But perhaps you'd like links to videos where Obama repeatedly states his favor for marijuana decriminalization?

And I haven't even gotten around to reading about the war funding bill yet. So simmer down, I'm not about to type a rant about a subject of which I know little about.

 

[VTXDave]

I don't know how familiar you are with California or Alaska drug laws, but both states have decriminalized marijuana to some extent. Possession and growing of small amounts is either allowable under the law (Alaska) or punishable as misdemeanors (California) with minor fines. In California specifically it is considered to be on the same level as minor traffic violations.

I have lived here in CA for all my 48 years and the Fed have just busted a grow op here in my county the other day. I'm somewhat familiar.

 

[Pseudonym]

I have lived here in CA for all my 48 years and the Fed have just busted a grow op here in my county the other day. I'm somewhat familiar.

You're right, I should have know that. I apologize for not making an assumption.

 

[VTXDave]

Decriminalization means (in the United States) that possession, growing, or being under the influence of said decriminalized drug cannot be punishable as a felony. And this is what Obama has specifically stated: that marijuana use should not be punishable as a felony (need the link?).

And if marijuana was decriminalized, transport of marijuana across borders into the US would cease.

I have the link (I have a ton of them as I closely watch our masters) where Obama states that he's for decriminalization but I tend to believe voting records rather than the shit they spew from their pie holes to gain support. Obama can say anything he wants, but also keep in mind that he, if elected, can't wipe his ass without congressional approval. Therefore I look to their voting record. I scrutinize everything rather than popping a boner every time a candidate tells me what I want to hear. Call me jaded, but I've been around the block a few times.

 

[Pseudonym]

And if marijuana was decriminalized, transport of marijuana across borders into the US would cease.

I have the link (I have a ton of them as I closely watch our masters) where Obama states that he's for decriminalization but I tend to believe voting records rather than the shit they spew from their pie holes to gain support. Obama can say anything he wants, but also keep in mind that he, if elected, can't wipe his ass without congressional approval. Therefore I look to their voting record. I scrutinize everything rather than popping a boner every time a candidate tells me what I want to hear. Call me jaded, but I've been around the block a few times.

That couldn't be further from the truth. Is it illegal to posses a purse? Of course not. Is it illegal to traffic purses? Yes. The legality of personal use in the United States and trafficking laws are not related in the way you are attempting to portray.

And I like your assumption that I believe every word Obama says. My personal experience with the past 16 years of American presidents and extensive knowledge of American history tells me that all of our presidents are and have been liars. I'll never tell you that I agree with Obama on every single issue; that would be ridiculous. I will tell you though that of all of the choices available for President, Barak Obama has the majority of my interests in mind and the characteristics I desire most in a President. And I hope you would feel the same way about whomever you happen to vote for.

 

[VTXDave]

That couldn't be further from the truth.

I make reference to Prohibition and the trafficking across the US/Canadian borders as an example. Prohibition created a thriving industry of smuggling alcohol across said border. By repealing said Act that industry all but dried up and traditional trade and commerce was established.

 

[VTXDave]

And I like your assumption that I believe every word Obama says.

I believe you are "assuming" I'm making that claim as I made no reference to what you claim. I have stated what "I" believe and nothing else. I speak from my experience and make no inferences. If I "assume, I will ask you a direct question such as this....

So...Tell me your thoughts on Obama's "talk" about being anti-war yet voting for continued funding of our continued operations of Iraq and Afghanistan where our men and women (and possibly my son) are dieing? Tell me your thoughts about his statement in his "Blueprint for America" to increase troop strength by 100,000. Why? If he's anti war then why vote to fund the war? Why the intent on growing a military? IMO...And please note that I said "IMO"....that actions speak louder than words.

For the record, my candidate is Ron Paul. Ron Paul just co-sponsored HR5843 which would eliminate all federal penalties for possession up to 100 grams, the first "real" call for federal decriminalization in over 20 years. NORML has a blurb here... http://capwiz.com/norml2/issues/alert/?alertid=11280301&type=CO

Meanwhile Obama voted for more taxpayer dollars to be spent on war (both overseas and "war on drugs"). Has he sponsored any legislation to decriminalize? No he hasn't. Talk is cheap. If it walks like a duck....

 

[Johnnyorganic]

I make reference to Prohibition and the trafficking across the US/Canadian borders as an example. Prohibition created a thriving industry of smuggling alcohol across said border. By repealing said Act that industry all but dried up and traditional trade and commerce was established.

That's true.

However, bootleggers never went out of business completely. Half the price of alcohol is tax. Moonshine is much cheaper and there is a market for it.

That's what we will see with legalization. Bootleg growers will continue their business, but for the same reason alcohol bootleggers do it: tax evasion.

But you are right about importing cannabis. It will be grown in the U.S.A., taxed or not.

 

[Pseudonym]

I make reference to Prohibition and the trafficking across the US/Canadian borders as an example. Prohibition created a thriving industry of smuggling alcohol across said border. By repealing said Act that industry all but dried up and traditional trade and commerce was established.

Legalization and decriminalization are two completely different legal concepts. When alcohol prohibition was repealed, alcohol was legalized. Obama has specifically stated that he is against marijuana legalization. What he is for is decriminalization. So trafficking will still occur because it will still be illegal to posses massive quantities. Making a comparison to alcohol prohibition is irrelevent because alcohol wasnt decriminalized, it was legalized, meaning that it was legal to posses and move any quantity of alcohol. Decriminalizing marijuana or any other illegal drug would not yield the same result.

And I've already addressed your war funding bill issue.

 

[Wh00p]

that was what i was trying to say, I agree with you on many of your points PS..I think its ignorant to cast aside a candidate because he doesnt support some issue, some people have to realize that the world we live in, is what the politicians have to adjust to..

you may want think that if weed was legal, trafficing the actual drug would stop, it would get worse!! in order to force japan to trade with Europe, they smuggled Opiates into there country, and any act to say no, Europe percieved to the whole the world as acts of war..

Now the U.S has legalized weed, after spending all that money against, The U.S has to take steps to prevent it from going cross the world..I.E trafficing..

 

[cannabitch]

I believe you are "assuming" I'm making that claim as I made no reference to what you claim. I have stated what "I" believe and nothing else. I speak from my experience and make no inferences. If I "assume, I will ask you a direct question such as this....

So...Tell me your thoughts on Obama's "talk" about being anti-war yet voting for continued funding of our continued operations of Iraq and Afghanistan where our men and women (and possibly my son) are dieing? Tell me your thoughts about his statement in his "Blueprint for America" to increase troop strength by 100,000. Why? If he's anti war then why vote to fund the war? Why the intent on growing a military? IMO...And please note that I said "IMO"....that actions speak louder than words.

For the record, my candidate is Ron Paul. Ron Paul just co-sponsored HR5843 which would eliminate all federal penalties for possession up to 100 grams, the first "real" call for federal decriminalization in over 20 years. NORML has a blurb here... Contact Officials - NORML

Meanwhile Obama voted for more taxpayer dollars to be spent on war (both overseas and "war on drugs"). Has he sponsored any legislation to decriminalize? No he hasn't. Talk is cheap. If it walks like a duck....

Ron Paul is the man! thanks for pointing out that blurb on Norml. i went on the site and took action! I sent a letter to my Representative on the passage of HR5843.

 

[duddychunks]

I do not support Obama he is a liar, he is seriously just supporting decriminalization because he wants votes but he has not done anything significant in his life, he flip flops a lot and doesn't want marijuana legalized just decriminalized and he didn't elaborate on that so I don't trust him, he doesn't elaborate on any of his plans, he just says "I have a plan."... yeah its starting to get on my nerves but oh well.

 

[hom36rown]

mccain and obama are both douchbags

 

[MoePunn]

I don't know. You tell me. I don't do drugs (but I fully support decriminalization), but I see a dichotomy here. Do you support Obama? Do you support the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? If you're against out wars but support Obama, how do you resolve the dichotomy of him voting for this bill. Couple that with his statement in his "Blueprint for America" to increase troop strength by an additional 100,000 troops and that sounds to me like a recipe for continued occupation and/or Empire building (Iran?).

If Obama intends to "decriminalize" marijuana then of course there'd be no need to fund an additional 400 million to stop drug traficking across Mexico, yes? If he is intent on decriminalizing marijuana then everyone would grow their own and smuggling across the US/Mexico border would cease, yes? Remember the Prohibition Act? It created a thriving smuggling operation across the US/Canada border. When Prohibition was killed, that operation ceased to exist.

Obama is pro war. Obama is anti drug. Resolve that.

Just an FYI gentlemen contrary to what you've heard from some of us weed smokers, since 1964 (when we expelled trade with Cuba) there has only been 2 years that more marijuana crossed our border than cocaine both of them were in the 70's Now I know that we are specifically talking about Mexico, but read between the line Mexico grows one product marijuana and they are right next door Cuba's national product is Cocaine the numbers look like this of the $65Billion dollars of REPORTED that the South American drug trade was worth in 2007 39 of it was Coke, 11 was Herion, 11 was marijuana... So fellas please dont be fooled into thinking anyone and I do mean ANYONE is concerned with the smoke that makes its was across out border... and I'm sure that with 420 being a hot button item gubment people will have you believing that "our big problem is weed" I assure you its not so when we talk about drug trafficking rest assured its not the smoke that they are concerned about turning away...

P.S. While I am not the biggest fan of war a lot of our economy is dependent upon it... I'm not sure if you've read this but looks like Iran is next on the "get fucked up by America list" So while all the protesters stand out side and march about bringing home the troops just remember this : THATS WHAT THEY SIGNED UP FOR, and while I keep them in my prayers and I truly appreciate the job they do I do not feel like most who say "the troops need to be home"

With all that said I am still voting for Obama and heres why does it matter that he voted for war or against border control or that his Pastor is racist? Not really because he's still the best candidate hands down... when you watch tv do you always get to watch your absolute favorite programs? NO you don't but you check the listings and see whats on and you go with the best choice... ala Obama "08"

 

[On3Tim3OnLy]

bush and Obama are doing what they was befor lol like the russian Shit lol they gonna do it together ,...