U.S. Job Growth Slows Sharply

[UncleBuck]

Because a loan is a fiduciary contract. Strategic default is a choice; by definition one could continue to service the loan. I can see that attorneys could argue that the choice of strategic default isn't theft, but it certainly is dishonest and treacherous. Nowhere did the lender guarantee to you that the property in question would retain value. I cannot imagine making a moral case for any default that wasn't underlain by demonstrably untenable hardship. We are raising an entire generation of moral casuists.

but where is the theft? you called me a thief, implying i took something from someone without their permission.

that never happened.

 

[cannabineer]

but where is the theft? you called me a thief, implying i took something from someone without their permission.

that never happened.

I finally read back and found out what this was about. I retract the bit about theft.
But i still have questions about the morality of strategic default. I don't buy into the "amoral marketplace" jesuitry mentioned in the Wiki article.
Seriously, taking the money and choosing not to pay it back ... I can see that it would not be classified theft.
Did you engage in strategic default, i.e. defaulting when you could still pay? What was your rationale? How does this become an honest transaction?
Imo there are honest defaults; those are driven by outright incapacity to service the loan. But by the Wiki definition that you posted hinged upon choice to default while one could still pay.
A loan is a matter of one's word of honor. To strategically default does real harm to that honor. As I said earlier, the loan signer receives and should expect no guarantee that the property in question will retain value. That is my opinion.

 

[UncleBuck]

I finally read back and found out what this was about. I retract the bit about theft.
But i still have questions about the morality of strategic default. I don't buy into the "amoral marketplace" jesuitry mentioned in the Wiki article.
Seriously, taking the money and choosing not to pay it back ... I can see that it would not be classified theft.
Did you engage in strategic default, i.e. defaulting when you could still pay? What was your rationale? How does this become an honest transaction?
Imo there are honest defaults; those are driven by outright incapacity to service the loan. But by the Wiki definition that you posted hinged upon choice to default while one could still pay.
A loan is a matter of one's word of honor. To strategically default does real harm to that honor. As I said earlier, the loan signer receives and should expect no guarantee that the property in question will retain value. That is my opinion.

i never said it was an honest move.

i had been using the card for years with no missed payments. BoA changed the terms on the card, including a higher rate and a new annual fee so i closed it, as was my right. after that, they magically stopped receiving the payments i was making and refused to do anything about it. so i just stopped paying them, but not as part of a strategic default. just exasperation and anger.

my buddy who is a banker heard about it and walked me through the strategic part of the default.

and i do buy into the "amoral market", especially if we're talking about BoA. i still keep or have paid down other cards with other companies. but BoA is known for some very, very shady shit. i don't feel bad at all.

 

[cannabineer]

Okay. I overstepped. And I am glad my accusation was a mistake.
I do worry though about strategic default as an acceptable way of doing business.

And yeah, I'm none too pleased with BofA. They keep reframing my checking contract. They had some real weasel logic for going back on a supposed perpetual deal with my account.

 

[cannabineer]

add: I apologize. Accusation of theft is serious, a questioning of honor. In doing so i endangered my own. I understand that you were, uhm, surprised.

 

[UncleBuck]

add: I apologize. Accusation of theft is serious, a questioning of honor. In doing so i endangered my own. I understand that you were, uhm, surprised.

no need to apologize, although i understand how important it is for you personally to do so since you like to stay out of the mud. it is a madhouse in here, and i am just along for the ride. sometimes things get said, but to me it's just words.

i'm sure i haven't heard the end of this though.

 

[UncleBuck]

i'm sure i haven't heard the end of this though.

Fuck the thieving little prick. This is what limited means produces. - A load that should've been swallowed

i'm a fucking psychic.

 

[NoDrama]

but where is the theft? you called me a thief, implying i took something from someone without their permission.

that never happened.

You aren't a thief, as long as you paid off 10% of the loan, the bank is out nothing except their profit.

The laws have since changed, making you an unsecured creditor to the bank now, and that money you put in your saving/checking account IS NOT YOUR MONEY, it belongs to the bank now.

What do many banks do with bailout money besides give it away as bonuses? They buy US treasuries. i.e. the money they borrowed FROM us for 0% interest is loaned BACK TO US at 3% interest.

Unless you reneged on a few billion $, I doubt the bank is hurt much.

 

[Harrekin]

i disagree with doer on a lot of stuff, almost everything. not racist.

cannabineer and i have many, many disagreements. anyone here think the bear is racist?

trousers is a dyed in the wool conservative and has no problem forming a cogent policy objection to obama. not racist.

flaming pie is a moderate republican who i would likely disagree with on most everything. not racist.

muyloco, for as much as i suspect he is, has never uttered a racist word and i haven't called him a racist.

NLXSK1 went for years without saying anything racist before he exposed himself for what he is recently.

chesus has some absurd notion about relegalization, or at least his version of it, which i find endlessly stupid. not racist.

i will never be as far left as godhere or abandon are, and i find their stances silly. not racist.

ginwilly just needs to evolve from the neck up and stop giving free passes to the white supremacy around here.

I dont know whether to be happy or worried to have been left out of that list...

 

[UncleBuck]

I dont know whether to be happy or worried to have been left out of that list...

i actually thought about you after i made that list. you're one of the good ones, gleep gloop.

 

[Harrekin]

i actually thought about you after i made that list. you're one of the good ones, gleep gloop.

So Iz notz racezt?

 

[UncleBuck]

So Iz notz racezt?

racetrolling is not racist as far as i can tell.