Your fav religious /anti religious vids

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
The thing is, we are all seekers of truth. You attempt to separate yourself making your POV somehow special. It is not. It is the most widely held view amongst most atheists. They are agnostic to the question about whether there is or is not a god. Among those agnostics, there is a continuum of beliefs between, never really thought about it, to active disbelief.
 

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
i don't know if i disbelieve, i don't know if i believe either... i just plain don't know. undecided.

-Theisagneista Thee-iss-agh-knee-eesta

just because you do not have the ability admit within yourselves that you do not know, does not mean that i can't.
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
i don't know if i disbelieve, i don't know if i believe either... i just plain don't know. undecided.

-Theisagneista Thee-iss-agh-knee-eesta

just because you do not have the ability admit within yourselves that you do not know, does not mean that i can't.
You're really not paying attention to anything we are saying. Even your own definition of belief says that it is a psychological state where you believe something to be true. If you say you are not sure, than you cannot be holding a belief. Having a belief is an active position, one must make an active conscious decision to believe a claim. It is ridiculous to say you don't know whether you believe something. You either believe something or you don't. The problem seems to be that you think not believing means you must disbelieve it when in fact it only means you haven't reached a conclusion which is what you keep saying is the case and why I keep saying you don't yet believe.

Is there anything else in life that you are so unsure of your position?
 

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
"science can tell us what we can know, but what we can know is little, and if we forget how much we cannot know we become insensitive to many things of very great importance in the universe.

theology on the other hand induces the dogmatic belief that we have knowledge, where in fact we have ignorance, and by doing so generates a kind of impertinent insolence towards the universe.

Uncertainty in the presents of vivid hopes and fears is painful, but must be endured if we wish to live without the support of comforting fairy tales……..
"

there is much i am uncertain about
 

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
"science can tell us what we can know, but what we can know is little, and if we forget how much we cannot know we become insensitive to many things of very great importance in the universe.

theology on the other hand induces the dogmatic belief that we have knowledge, where in fact we have ignorance, and by doing so generates a kind of impertinent insolence towards the universe.

Uncertainty in the presents of vivid hopes and fears is painful, but must be endured if we wish to live without the support of comforting fairy tales……..
"

there is much i am uncertain about
You're just avoiding making comments on anything we say. You completely ignore our responses and keep babbling on about being uncertain.

We get it, you're not sure if god exists. You do know what you believe, one way or another however.
You're not fooling anyone, and your comments aren't clever or thought provoking.
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
"science can tell us what we can know, but what we can know is little, and if we forget how much we cannot know we become insensitive to many things of very great importance in the universe.

theology on the other hand induces the dogmatic belief that we have knowledge, where in fact we have ignorance, and by doing so generates a kind of impertinent insolence towards the universe.

Uncertainty in the presents of vivid hopes and fears is painful, but must be endured if we wish to live without the support of comforting fairy tales……..
"

there is much i am uncertain about
Stop conflating belief and knowledge. This is the whole point. You may not know Santa Claus is a myth but I bet you believe it to be. You cannot be sure that atoms are made of electrons, protons and neutrons, but if you have examined the subject and the evidence, I'm sure you can formulate a belief.

I didn't ask if you were uncertain about things, I asked if you were uncertain about what you thought. IOW, if I ask you if black holes exist, you certainly could be uncertain about them. However, if you have studied the subject at all, you may formulate a belief that they do indeed exist. You are essentially saying you are unsure of what you believe. Tabula rasa, initially everything you are presented with, your position is one of non-belief. That is until you learn more. At some point for some things, you accept that they are true but until then, your undecided position means you DO NOT accept the propositions as true, therefore have not formed any belief yet. There is no third option, a partial way between belief and unbelief. You are confusing knowledge with belief and disbelief with unbelief. Read these words carefully, please, do not respond automatically because you are merely repeating yourself. Try to sit with this idea for a bit and see if you can at least understand what we are saying because the first rule of discourse is that you should not discount the opposition's position unless you can understand it fully first.
 

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
The same things would be said if I were debating with atheists rather than theists. I am asking you, how do you know 100% for sure that there is a god. Just as I would ask the atheists the same, how do you know 100% for sure that there is not a god?

To claim knowledge where there is none is just flimflammery, foolishness, senseless, arrogant.

There is a problem with the human psyche. Humans have this weakness, and it could be a result of the culture we were brought up in. That ignorance is bad, to not know something makes you feel weak, vulnerable and scared. It is the human condition to always want certainty when we don’t know. Most of us give in to this weakness, which results in us lying to ourselves within ourselves. We tell ourselves that we know for sure, when we really don’t. When you come to a higher level of consciousness you can observe your own thought process, and accept the reality of the situation. As much as we want to know, as much as we just “feel” we know, as much as we tell ourselves that we know… we cannot.

We just, don’t, know. And that is a very scary thing to admit to ourselves, by far one of the hardest things any human can do… to admit to themselves within themselves their own ignorance. Not many are wise enough to be able to do this, not many at all. That is why I’ve made up this new word to try to explain this sense of wisdom in the face of our ignorance.

To explain the truth, WE DO NOT KNOW.

Theisagneista- the belief that we do not know.

At this my friends, i know, that we must agree to disagree. For when you try to explain to someone even a logical and rational thing... when they have made up their minds you cannot get through. And you have already made up your minds. For you have this special ability to know things humans cannot know.

I agree, to disagree.
 

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
To claim knowledge where there is none is just flimflammery, foolishness, senseless, arrogant.

Ishpan

"Faith, a firm, unwavering place in consciousness, but tending to a belief in wearing out and dissipation of strength, through activity"

Leading eventually to equilibrium, poise.
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
The same things would be said if I were debating with atheists rather than theists. I am asking you, how do you know 100% for sure that there is a god. Just as I would ask the atheists the same, how do you know 100% for sure that there is not a god?
Most atheists and theists alike do not make that claim. A claim about knowledge is different than a claim about belief. That you cannot understand this very basic distinction is laughable.
To claim knowledge where there is none is just flimflammery, foolishness, senseless, arrogant.
Who is claiming knowledge except for your straw men?

There is a problem with the human psyche. Humans have this weakness, and it could be a result of the culture we were brought up in. That ignorance is bad, to not know something makes you feel weak, vulnerable and scared. It is the human condition to always want certainty when we don’t know. Most of us give in to this weakness, which results in us lying to ourselves within ourselves. We tell ourselves that we know for sure, when we really don’t. When you come to a higher level of consciousness you can observe your own thought process, and accept the reality of the situation. As much as we want to know, as much as we just “feel” we know, as much as we tell ourselves that we know… we cannot.
This might be true for some people, but not the people that are TRYING to have a discussion with you. As a scientist, I am fully aware of the many things we do not know. This is why I have mentioned that theories never prove anything. We can only disprove things in science. Everything about life begins with some assumptions, which leads to the conclusion that nothing can be known absolutely.

However this is not the point of the discussion that you seem to be ignoring. No one is claiming knowledge. If you believe germs cause disease, is that an absolute claim about knowledge or a belief based on the best available evidence? Do you have ANY beliefs?
We just, don’t, know. And that is a very scary thing to admit to ourselves, by far one of the hardest things any human can do… to admit to themselves within themselves their own ignorance. Not many are wise enough to be able to do this, not many at all. That is why I’ve made up this new word to try to explain this sense of wisdom in the face of our ignorance.
It is not hard or scary. We do not know a great deal of things. No new word is necessary because you are misunderstanding the discussion.

At this my friends, i know, that we must agree to disagree. For when you try to explain to someone even a logical and rational thing... when they have made up their minds you cannot get through. And you have already made up your minds. For you have this special ability to know things humans cannot know.
Straw man. You have made up your mind and it is closed to new ideas. No one is claiming any special knowledge, this is your mistake and an apparent lack of reading comprehension. :roll:
I agree, to disagree.
You aren't even disagreeing with us, you are disagreeing with a caricature of your own design.
 

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
Dude, stop acting like some radical thinker, you're not; and the line of thinking your describing has existed for thousands of years. Read the Death of Socrates, you fucking space cadet.

Statement about knowlege
I do not know if god exists.

This statement means, I'm not sure if god does, or does not exist. It's not provable either way, I know this, MP knows this, everyone you are arguing against knows this. SO SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT IT.


Statement about belief
I do not believe god exists.

This is about the decision you make in your own mind about whether the evidence you have seen is reasonable to believe or not.





Here's an example; maybe, just maybe, you might understand this time.



If you're standing on the street and a random person turns to you and says;

"I'm Jesus."


It's impossible to know if he is Jesus with 100% certainty, and it's also impossible to know that he isn't Jesus with 100% certainty. Should you treat both options, that he IS and IS NOT, Jesus with equal merit? No, one is more likely to be true, and thus one deserves more belief.

Your mind is forced to make a stance on the spot as to whether or not you are taking what he says as truth or not. There is only two possibilities with truth, true or false.

You don't know he isn't Jesus, but someone saying they're Jesus without showing sufficient evidence results in the rejection of a belief (if you're not a fucking idiot). If believing "random guy" is Jesus is the equivalent of being a Theist, rejecting "random guy" is the equivalent of atheism.

You'd also be an Atheist if "random guy" never told you he was Jesus... and you'd never had the choice to believe or not.
 

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
Ishpan

"Faith, a firm, unwavering place in consciousness, but tending to a belief in wearing out and dissipation of strength, through activity"

Leading eventually to equilibrium, poise.
What value is a faith one can hold on to or let go as one wishes? It is just a blind mental concept which clearly has no worth at all. That is blind faith and the less blindness you have in life the better. I do not ask you to believe, I ask you to know. Only a state of mind that one has reached by knowledge, by realization, has any value. You can term it right-belief if you wish, but it is not belief, it is knowledge. Don’t believe in some vague truism. Search for truth. Seek it out. But don’t hold on to any belief or concept. This is a sign of weakness of the mind. It is lethargy; it is a lack of caring. It is an injurious way to save yourself from the work of seeing your self. Blind faith is an escape from the effort for self-realization. In a sense it is nothing short of suicide because once one falls into this culvert one becomes incapable of climbing the peak of truth. These paths lead you in two opposite directions. One is the ditch you fall into; the other, the lofty summit you have to climb. Faith is an easy thing because a man is not required to do anything. In that sense, knowledge is not so easy. Knowledge is the complete transformation of life. Faith is the outer apparel; knowledge, the inner revolution. Rather than allowing you to reach the peak of atonement towards which your spirit is striving, a simple faith can easily throw you back into the slumber of blind belief. Religion is not faith but unfortunately, religions are. What is religion to me does not coincide with what the concepts of the world’s religions appear to be. On that score Karl Marx was right to brand religions as opiates but profoundly wrong to say so about real religion! You have been told to have faith in the shastras, faith in the words of God, faith in the teachers. I do not say so at all. I say: have faith in yourself. It is only by knowing your self that you will be able to know what the shastras have said, what god has said. For one who has no faith in himself, following any other faith will be in vain. Can you stand on someone else’s feet? Buddha said, ”Be your own lamp. Be your own refuge. There is no proper refuge but the refuge of one’s own self.” And I say the same thing.
 

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
What value is a faith one can hold on to or let go as one wishes? It is just a blind mental concept which clearly has no worth at all.
Christ, Buddha, Vishnu, Zarathustra, Horus... are all the same energy. They all say / said what Buddha said. What good is anything if you can let it go as you wish. (non-material, that is)

You wrote about not being able to process other people's energies then write this? I'm not trying to be a dck - to be clear.
 

Luger187

Well-Known Member
this is a good video series called discovering religion. theres like over 20 episodes i think. i recommend watching them all in order, especially if you are christian

[video=youtube;P9Vx_KLRUpE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9Vx_KLRUpE[/video]

[video=youtube;5Dsz9erURvo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Dsz9erURvo[/video]
 

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
...dude, read. The Vatican openly supports evolution. :wall:

...I hear a lot of people say 'why believe in some supposedly inspired people' and go and quote some other 'supposedly inspired people' to make a point.
 

Luger187

Well-Known Member
...yeah, just the first part though. The rest was open.
just because the vatican accepts evolution doesnt mean the people understand or accept it. a ton of christians in this country still dont accept evolution. most of it is due to ignorance. when is the last time you heard a christian person properly explaining evolution?
 

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
just because the vatican accepts evolution doesnt mean the people understand or accept it. a ton of christians in this country still dont accept evolution. most of it is due to ignorance. when is the last time you heard a christian person properly explaining evolution?
...I know what you mean. It's not the most widely spread idea. But it is the truth, that's what I was expressing. I think most of the, say, 'generic christians' are well with the idea of spiritual evolution. I could see how it would be hard to make a 'flip'.
 

Luger187

Well-Known Member
...I know what you mean. It's not the most widely spread idea. But it is the truth, that's what I was expressing. I think most of the, say, 'generic christians' are well with the idea of spiritual evolution. I could see how it would be hard to make a 'flip'.
spiritual evolution?? they dont get to make up their own religious version of evolution. they either believe the facts or they dont.
its hard for them to make the flip because their whole religion depends on god creating the earth and universe for humans. once humans have been shown to take up such a tiny amount of time compared to the entire earths history, their god will be unimportant and ludicrous in the scale of things. they will realize its not true. its an unwinnable position. all they can do is stick to their guns and claim they know they are correct.

heres a few questions not necessarily at you exaggerate. feel free to respond though

why is it so taboo to talk negatively about religion? what makes those beliefs so much better than every other belief? if they know they are correct, wouldnt religious people want their religion tested(legitimately) to be verified correct? how many christians out of 100 would say their religion should be tested to prove its correct? do you think those that say it shouldnt really believe in it?
also, why do people believe that prayers get answered by god? that is such a laughable concept to me
 
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