Young seedling/plants falling over

GreenGro said:

Another question too

I have my cubes in a heated propagator with a 125w cfl directly above the cover, the temp in there with the propagator switched on is about 90-95 degrees, with the propagator off its around 78-80, should I leave it on or off? is 90-95 a bit hot?


Thanks

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90/95 is pretty hot. Maybe 80 tops. I have my heat mat on the same timer as my lights which are set at 18/6. The heat mat I suggested works on the principle of heating to about 10 or 20 degrees more than ambient. So, if your room is 70, the mat will get to about 80 or 90. And, I was joking about "no life". It's just that what I read from a lot of folks is that they waste a lot of time and energy with a lot of needless steps in growing plants, of any kind. I was just trying to help out and make it less bothersome with regards to sprouting seeds and clones. With my own set-up, I set 'em and forget 'em and have 100% success, all things considered like viable seeds, not breaking or bending a cutting too much when cloning, etc. Whatever or however you do it, at least you are having fun.

Thanks for the help again peeps, its nice to get some back up from others.
I knew you were joking lask bout the time but I have been weighing only cos i screwed up last time by underwatering and evedrybody else has been telling me i been over watering.

Anyhow I've calculated it all abouts now and for the time being I'm adding 10ml of water with root-regen to each cube each day, this keeps them at the same weight so it must be kind of how much they need. I'm putting it in the bottom and letting the cube suck it up, I'm also wiping out the propagator top and spraying that with water at the same time. It doesn't take long and the 2 lil uns that are up so far are looking pretty good - lil bit of purple on the stem but i don't think theres anything to worry about.

Oh and BTW the temp seems to be hovering around 80 now so that seems fine too. Just waiting for root mass now.

How long should it take for the plug to fill with enough root mass to warrant moving it into the big rockwool cube?

Thanks again guys it really really is appreciated - I only hope in time when I know more I can do the same back for other noobs.

Oh and 1 of the 3 seeds i put in didnt do nothing yet - how long is it worth waiting and what percentage are likely to totally fail?

I would say the seeds that didn't sprout yet may not be viable. Keep them damp and warm and see what happens. Some just have a tougher shell but usually they all germ pretty fast if kept wet. As for transplanting to the bigger block, as soon as you have roots showing, go for it. The more roots the better but any showing will be okay to transplant. Keep things easy for the new roots to spread out and you should have no problems. Not sure what system you are using but you may have to top-water for a week or so until your roots are spread deep in the block of rock. (don't waste time measuring all your watering, please!) And by the way, I have been doing this for almost 40 years and I just like to make it easy on myself but at the same time, have success for my efforts. I almost cringe (and laugh) when I see and hear some of the processes people have come up with to germ seeds and root cuttings. Jeez, what a waste of time and energy and most of them are prone to "killing with kindness". The more you mess with a sprout or rooting plant, the more likely you are to kill it.

Thanks Lask

The roots ain't coing out yet and it'll be prob next weekend until I have the time to move them anyway by which time I guess there'll be plenty of root.

As for weighing well when I transfer up to the damp larger cube (which are soaking now just in case I suddenly need them) I probably will weigh them for a day or 2 just to see how much water the things are using each day so I know how much to feed them. Next time I wont have to do this as I'll have a fair idea of about how much to do them - it just helps me get my method going is all, I know you hate the idea tho

I have a flood and drain table - after a week of top watering in the larger cubes I was thinking to move these into pots with clay pebbles and start the flood cycle, which will then bring me onto my next question how often to flood, how long for and how high up my pot should I allow it to filll?

You will want the solution to come up as high in the pot as your lowest roots are and still will have to top-water for a week to make sure the roots get a chance to get down to the water level. Water only during the daylight cycle, veg @ 18/6, up to 6 times a day to make sure roots are getting a good start. When you kick to 12/12, drop watering down to 4 times a day. Have a watering happen at the same time or just before the lights come on and last on about a half hour before lights go out with two in between. Watch for over watering but this should work. Since you like to be Mr. Science, make sure you have a ppm tester. I use the BlueLab Truncheon ppm tester. Keep your solution at the proper nute levels and all should be fine and dandy. And with rock wool bricks you have to watch your ph, another Mr. Science project for you. lol lol Sounds like all is well, have fun, good luck. And while the rock wool bricks are soaking, flush them a couple of times before using them.

Thanks again

1st off tho how long should i flood for - I have digi timers so i can flood for only 1 min if i want?

I already have a hannah combined ph and ppm tester, being mr science and that so I'll have my eye on that once I start adding nutes, which I guess will be around the same time as I start flooding. I got 2 growing well so far, slight purple stems and that but otherwise looking pretty good I think - lets hope their a pair of bitches or even better filthy sluts

But I got 7 spare seeds should I fuck up again - if 1 turns out to be a male I'm gonna have a go at seperating him to another room grabbing some pollen then pollenating 1 or 2 buds to get some seeds for future use. 1 step at a time though

In an ebb and flow system you don't want the solution around the roots for too long, just enough to soak whatever medium you are using that the roots grow in. About 15 minutes to get all of the roots soaked and then start to drain. During your daylight cycle, maybe four times at 15 mins. each should be good with one right when the lights come on and the last one about a half hour before lights out as you don't want the roots sitting there soaking in the dark. You will have to judge by what your plants do. Keep a close eye on the ppm's and with rock wool, the ph to some degree. You will probably have to top water until the roots are established, usually a week. Add your nutes right away but start out on the light side, like 400/500 ppm and work your way up, depending on what solution you are using. Go for a week at weak solution, and add up from there over another weeks time, up to whatever your system is meant to have. Once again, it can be anywhere from 1000ppm to 1500ppm.

GreenGro,
we all go through the "getting the feel" part of growing, and everything your doing and the advise some people give, (even if it is being MR science) we go through it to understand the most important question: WHY? when you have those answers you will have your own techniques in growing, to each is own, i weigh my pots, but not with a scale. i just pick them up. i know how heavy they should be and when to and not to add water by the feel. but my first couple years growing i used a bathroom scale from the advise of a old schooler. to each is own.....there are many styles. mine in is the drunken style!

keep doin what your doin. happy growin

Thanks for the further advice guys, to be honest I'm finding it useful to weigh at the moment and I can see the amount of water needed is going up eack day, I'm at about 9 days now and their taking about 10Ml of water mixed with root-regen each day. They seem to be growing ok, ones a bit on the wonky side but seems ok - its hard keeping the temp down to 80 in the loft tho, I haven't fitted my venting fan system and primair yet but figure as their in the propagator theres no point it wont help a min. I've had to switch the propagator off so the only heat is coming from the light and outside temps.

Its sitting at 80 today tho so all good there.

The stems on the 2 of them have been slightly purple from the start but are getting a bit more purple, is this anything to worry about?

Also theres a small spot on 1 of the leaves which you will see in the pictures below, can anyone tell me if all looks ok? I think their pretty much ok myself but you guys would know more.

G-gro, you do have to watch that heat as it is easy to scald the plants. A cheap fan blowing across them all the while the lights are on will help. I have read all kinds of temps but 70's are something to shoot for but 80's aren't bad as long as the tops of the plants are not getting burned. Hold your hand up by the tops (with the lights on) and see if how it feels on your skin. Too hot for you, definitely too hot for the kids. Don't be too concerned about spots on your plants at such an early age. Keep 'em damp and in the light and all should be good. Be real careful giving them any nutes at this stage. You really want to wait until there are roots and in your final grow. It is easy to burn them if you give them too much and at the age they are in the pics, once burned, you may as well throw them away. No nutes, just H20 until transplanted has always worked best for me.

Thanks Lask

The only problem with blowing a fan over them is they are in a propagator with a lid on so the fan wont blow on the plants. Do you suggest that I remove the lid now? is high humidity not such an issue now?

As for nutes this root-regenerator says its supposed to be used from start to finish so thats what I've been up to and the guy in the grow shop reckons its really good and to use it from start to finish, its only like 1ml to every litre of water so i guess its mild in any case.

Thanks

Anyone any idea please - should I think about taking the top of the propagator now or does it need to stay on for a bit more? its day 10 i think.

The lil starter leaves are yellowing and looking like their gonna fall off but this is part of th eprocess, no?

GG

GreenGro said:

Thanks guys

The trouble is all the mixed advice, I have thought from the start that they were a bit underwatered but then I have others telling me to stop watering them as they are over watered, its a bitch not knowing what advice to go with.

It would be useful if I had a couple of mates who were into this who could come and look and help but I am the pioneer in my circles. Wish I had someone to grab some clones from.

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I tried to help GreenGro but you seem determined to keep up the Mr. Science projects. You are killing with kindness, a common problem among folks starting out with an agro project such as yours. If you want to hear from me and have me explain my plan in detail, write via the forum and I will talk in more detail with you about how to get good results, easy! Or keep going on this premise that you have to measure your water, and adding nutes before they are rooted, etc. You will eventually work out the process your way but it can be so easy with 100% success the way I do it! I am not saying that all the other stuff you have read and heard is not right because I am sure it is all good info. Truth is, there are as many ways to grow as there are strains on the planet but there are easy ways and not so easy ways. Maybe all with the same results, maybe not. I don't mean to pressure you or insult anyone else that has offered you advice. Just trying to show you a way that will give you some success before you decide to drop it or before you run out of seeds!

at this point you should be thinking about the funal medium you want these plants in. in the mean time they need co2 so take the lid off and leave it off. you want have to worry about the humidity so much now. keep an eye your temps and watering and they will be fine,. whats next? dwc, another rockwool cube? soil maybe

laskabud said:

I tried to help GreenGro but you seem determined to keep up the Mr. Science projects. You are killing with kindness, a common problem among folks starting out with an agro project such as yours. If you want to hear from me and have me explain my plan in detail, write via the forum and I will talk in more detail with you about how to get good results, easy! Or keep going on this premise that you have to measure your water, and adding nutes before they are rooted, etc. You will eventually work out the process your way but it can be so easy with 100% success the way I do it! I am not saying that all the other stuff you have read and heard is not right because I am sure it is all good info. Truth is, there are as many ways to grow as there are strains on the planet but there are easy ways and not so easy ways. Maybe all with the same results, maybe not. I don't mean to pressure you or insult anyone else that has offered you advice. Just trying to show you a way that will give you some success before you decide to drop it or before you run out of seeds!

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Fuck didn't I wirte that a few pages ago and I thought we'd gone past that bit now,that was my last lot of plants that died. that what you quoted there was said ages ago. I was asking if I should take the propagator lid off or not????? praps

sk3tch3 said:

at this point you should be thinking about the funal medium you want these plants in. in the mean time they need co2 so take the lid off and leave it off. you want have to worry about the humidity so much now. keep an eye your temps and watering and they will be fine,. whats next? dwc, another rockwool cube? soil maybe

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I've got my other rockwool cubes soaking, I have flushed them 4 times now, the PH keeps rising but I think they are starting to stabalise.

I have to small roots coming out of the bottom of each now but thought I would wait until the weekend until there was a bit more root showing before moving up to the big cubes. Then I though wait until the roots show through the big cubes and then put them in my pots with clay pellets and start to flood. All this sound good?

The prop lid comes off today then, thanks

Any ideas how far away from the tops I should keep a 125w cfl (envirolite)?

Thanks

oooops! Sounds like you are on a roll, no pun intended! Good luck and have a good grow.

2-6 inches dependending on heat of the light, i dont use cfl's and my floro doesnt get hot at all so the plants tend to grow right in to it before i move it (im lazy) its just for seedlings and clones. but from the siteinfo its about 2-6 inches. no more then 6 inches or the light starts diminishing. you can move plants now to their new home once you get the ph stableized. Are you flushing them with ph'd water? you shouldnt have to rince more then twice, i only rince once then soak once and shake or evaporate excess water. anyway it is usually the dust in the rockwool that is dissabling the ph to set where it is ideal. once rinsed out it usually is fine. after moving to the new rockwool, mist for the first couple days and the roots will "search". everything sounds great, any pics?

Hi - thanks again guys, can't stress enough how appreciated any help is.

So I can move up to the bigger rockwool cubes now - I have 2 tiny roots poking out of each right now.

Yeh been ph ing the water each time they have been flushed a few times so I would think if I throw my ph meter into the mix now I should be ok, I'm looking at around 5.5ph does this sound cool?

Gonna check it now and move up to the big boys then.

And you suggest mist the tops only then?

weigh your 6in rockwools wet and dry. the same way as before, but this time let them go closer to the dryer side for the first couple days after moving them up. mist to keep them nice and green, the roots will on the other hand be desperatly looking for water and find their way snugly into the new rockwool. then go back to watering the "MR SCIENCE" way..lol seems to be working good. peace