Yeah, we suck...

Dalek Supreme

Well-Known Member
I like how Dawkins has likened religion to a virus. Religion has to spread from person to person, and when we're is the best time, so that's why parents stress it so much to their kids.

So the mental virus spreads and reduces one's defenses to nonsense. But I have never thought of it as an addiction. I believe the most "faithful" really do believe it to their core and they get a high out of the endorphins which are released when they worship their god at church with their singing and hand raise/waving, even snake handeling.

I think that has to be separate. I've been to those churches and involved with a group of people. They're all chanting Jesus, in that moment I was able to give in and it was kind of a cool tingly good feeling. I'll bet they feel it more intensely, and more often. But people of all religion feel that. So that proves nothing.

Anyway, I'm stoned and rambling. I agree with you there are shades of addiction, but I don't think it's as simple as all that. It isnt just pleasure seeking. They deny themselves things that please them as part one of many acts of worship or sacrifice to their god.
An Alcoholic will deprive themselves of food.

A Gambler will deprive themselves of savings.

Addiction spreads socially. Next time you hang out with friends you normally drink, or smoke with try this experiment. Do not participate in the drinking, or smoking. Just say "I do not feel like it". Watch their reactions.
 

ThickStemz

Well-Known Member
An Alcoholic will deprive themselves of food.

A Gambler will deprive themselves of savings.

Addiction spreads socially. Next time you hang out with friends you normally drink, or smoke with try this experiment. Do not participate in the drinking, or smoking. Just say "I do not feel like it". Watch their reactions.
Yeah alcoholics I've known love someone to drink with them and they'll try to get others to with with them.

It's not that I think the religion is a form of addiction argument is incorrect, I just don't think it's an exclusive or complete explanation of religion. The consenques of alcoholism or addiction are starvation and financial waste. A religious person is making a coscious decision to not eat, it isn't a consequence of poor planing and no money. Religion usually prompts people to live frugally, only adding an additional tithe and promoting self restraint and modesty. But I don't think a religious person is more or less likely to save money. I don't think religion influences one's financial position.

An alcoholic must drink and they put the bottle ahead of all else, they seek instant gratification, its all about the moment. A religious person often lives against their wishes for a future gratification.
 

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
Dawkins puts forth a cool hypothesis to explain why the vast majority of humanity yearns for a deity. It is a type of misfiring of an otherwise good guidance system. I'll give an example: We often witness moths circle a flame and eventually fly into it, it seems an irrationally suicidal impulse so why would natural selection favor it? The reason why is that for millions of years, moths evolved to use the moon to navigate the planet in semi-circular patterns. Before man there was no flame except for the relatively rare occurrences where nature would produce a lightening strike, or the sun would shine down uninterrupted on a parched field, etc.. Humanity came along and produced purposeful fires nightly and then went on to create artificial light. The moth still has that navigation system honed over millions of years to use the brightest object in the sky (the moon), so when seeing a flame, or artificial light, they navigate it in circular patterns until they eventually run right into it. They're not attempting suicide, just mistaking the flame for the moon. The same type misfiring seems to be happening with humans seeking a deity. Most of us as children love the warmth, protection and guidance of our parents. Perhaps this urge doesn't die off in most people, and they seek it into adulthood (or never truly get there). A small percentage of us seem to lose it, as it doesn't seem of much use once we can do these things for ourselves. Who knows, I'm very high...
 

Dalek Supreme

Well-Known Member
I like how Dawkins has likened religion to a virus. Religion has to spread from person to person, and when we're is the best time, so that's why parents stress it so much to their kids.

So the mental virus spreads and reduces one's defenses to nonsense. But I have never thought of it as an addiction. I believe the most "faithful" really do believe it to their core and they get a high out of the endorphins which are released when they worship their god at church with their singing and hand raise/waving, even snake handeling.

I think that has to be separate. I've been to those churches and involved with a group of people. They're all chanting Jesus, in that moment I was able to give in and it was kind of a cool tingly good feeling. I'll bet they feel it more intensely, and more often. But people of all religion feel that. So that proves nothing.

Anyway, I'm stoned and rambling. I agree with you there are shades of addiction, but I don't think it's as simple as all that. It isnt just pleasure seeking. They deny themselves things that please them as part one of many acts of worship or sacrifice to their god.
Look at the big picture.

The Dopamine reward system is the ancient part of the Brain. It's evolution is to motivate the gathering of resources for reproduction. Now introduce the modern frontal lobe for abstract thinking. We basicly spend more time in the womb compared to an Ape to grow more of that grey matter.

Now a person can put off an immediate reward to educate for a career which takes time. We do not see this as an addiction, but in a sense it is. We are using neurochemical motivators with our thinking frontal lobe for a future reward. Religious people just move the reward till after they die.

Remember thoughts can be an addiction. What feels good in thought neurologicaly reinforces pathways for that thought. This is why addicts have cognitive dissonance when you tug at the strong connections that conflict with the FEEL GOOD thoughts, and, or habits.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
For me it's pretty cut and dried; if it doesn't yield to repeatable experiment then it isn't reality. Religion failed the reality test for me many times, including as a useful lens through which to see and understand the world.

Physics works fine in this regard, as do the rest of the SCIENCES. So if I believe in anything, it's that dropping the board may injure my foot because of gravity, not because God is trying to teach me a lesson.

Is there something out there greater than ourselves? Of course! The universe is vast, there's no way it could not be so! But praying to it doesn't seem to be effective.

Or maybe we've created our own God, took it public and named it Google.
 

nobodies

Active Member
Not all organized religion is poison. There's plenty of normal religious people who do not condemn anyone, who simply practice their faith, and are pretty accepting of others. Pretending the loud outspoken few are representative of entire religions is pretty ignorant. Buddhism Taoism, Jainism, Hinduism: all these are very good religions. I'm not so a big a fan of Abrahamic religions though. That's just a matter of intellectualism though.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Not all organized religion is poison. There's plenty of normal religious people who do not condemn anyone, who simply practice their faith, and are pretty accepting of others. Pretending the loud outspoken few are representative of entire religions is pretty ignorant. Buddhism Taoism, Jainism, Hinduism: all these are very good religions. I'm not so a big a fan of Abrahamic religions though. That's just a matter of intellectualism though.
I agree, my own parents are Christian

I don't condemn religious people for their beliefs. I condemn the religious beliefs themselves
 

nobodies

Active Member
I agree there are some pretty stupid beliefs out there. Like all non-christian go to hell. Pretending to know whether or not there is a god, etc. I find them all equally stupid. Intelligent people don't presume to know thing's they can't possibly know.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Not all organized religion is poison. There's plenty of normal religious people who do not condemn anyone, who simply practice their faith, and are pretty accepting of others. Pretending the loud outspoken few are representative of entire religions is pretty ignorant. Buddhism Taoism, Jainism, Hinduism: all these are very good religions. I'm not so a big a fan of Abrahamic religions though. That's just a matter of intellectualism though.
It's when they condone the tactics of zealots and fanatics that they tend to lose my support.
 

nobodies

Active Member
It's when they condone the tactics of zealots and fanatics that they tend to lose my support.
Well you will find zealots, and radicalism throughout all of humanity, religion is hardly unique in this area. I mean people are willing to kill others for just about any reason. Insane people will be insane.. that's about all there is to it.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Well you will find zealots, and radicalism throughout all of humanity, religion is hardly unique in this area. I mean people are willing to kill others for just about any reason. Insane people will be insane.. that's about all there is to it.
True, and this is why we have laws and a justice system to hold them accountable.

Some of those zealots and madmen are IN the justice system, one of many reasons why it too needs to be held accountable.

We as a nation have been systematically breaking the chains of accountability in government and elsewhere for at least the half century of my lifetime and the mess we're in is the predictable result.

So let's start holding the right people accountable.
 

dannyboy602

Well-Known Member
I think Dawkins is a bit of an imbicile. He's almost militant in his beliefs.
I'm not a very good catholic. I guess I pick and choose what to believe. Its a terribly flawed religion. I hardly ever go to church except to cruise the guys in the mass.
I don't have any atheist friends bc the only ones I've known were always putting my religion down, making comments about sitting in Jesus lap and the jibes about Mary really hurt so if I even knew one decent atheist it would help. I just don't wanna talk about why I believe with someone who doesn't believe if that makes sense...they're always rambling about religious ppl trying to push their beliefs on them but they go and do the same thing. Why do atheists have to defend themselves? I don't defend my beliefs. Shut up already and just pass the bong.

One last thing...I hope Joel Osteen gets throat cancer so he would shut the fuck up already.
 
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