WTH? What is up with this plant? NYCD

I'm starting to get really confused about one of my plants... it's growing REALLY slowly for some reason and is struggling. Lately has been getting worse and worse by day and I don't understand why. I currently have 3 plants growing under HPS. Here's a photo:
From left to right: New York City Diesel (NYCD), Girl Scout Cookies (GSC), Misty (WW x NL)
All about 5 weeks from seed.

As you can see, NYCD is WAY behind in growth compared to the other two... it also has nute burn and some severely yellowing leaves (which are getting worse and worse now), mainly on the bottom. The severity of the leaves gets less dramatic as you go up the main stem, and the top leaves are actually looking perfect, so it seems to be a mobile nutrient problem. But the yellowing I've noticed seems to be spreading up the leaves faster than the plant is even growing. WTH? It's like I FIMed the thing 2 weeks ago, and since then it's sprouted two new main stems but they're tiny AF still and the rest of the plant hasn't changed at all either. I FIMed MIsty (far right) at the same time as well and the thing has EIGHT new main stems (also LST) and every one of them are bigger than the two that NYCD have at this point. PH is between 5.5-6.5 (I'm growing in coco). I use indicator solution (I need to get a nice meter), but I'm pretty sure the solution is between 5.5-6.5 every time. Girl Scout Cookies is loving it, she's looking perfect. Misty has some burnt tips and I've downed the nutes some which seems to help, and I've done the same on NYCD, but still nothing. I don't get it... the difference in stem/ branch density is ridiculous as well... GSC and MISTY's stems are at least 2X thicker than NYCD. Any Help on what to do? Has anybody else grown NYCD?

The only other issue I've been having with the grow environment is humidity. Let's just say I practically live in the north pole and with winter here it gets REALLY DRY so even with a humidifier running non-stop some days it's practically impossible to keep RH above 40%. I will have a tent by the end of this month which will help with that. However, I feel like having a bit dry of an environment wouldn't be able to do this to the plant alone which is why I'm so confused. But what do I know.

Temp is avg around 79-81 F, Humidity avg around 30%

Nutrients: Cali Magic (Cal Mag) and GH Nutrient Trio (Micro, Grow, Bloom) --> (5-0-1, 2-1-6, 0-5-4) [respectively]

Current Concentrations: CalMag - 2.1 (mL/Gal) or about 2/5 tsp per gallon
Micro- 1.6 (mL/Gal) or about 1/3 tsp per gallon
Grow- 1.6 (mL/Gal) or about 1/3 tsp per gallon
Bloom- 0.8 (mL/Gal) or about 1/6 tsp per gallon
(The nutrient label recommends 1 tsp per gallon of Micro, Grow, and Bloom for normal vegetative growth, or 2 tsp per gallon Micro, 3 tsp/gal Grow, and 1 tsp/gal Bloom for aggressive vegetative growth.) Idk recommendations for Cali-Magic, I have always done about twice the amount of Micro to start, then slowly lowered to about equal concentrations of Micro. (I guess recommended would be 2 tsp, slowly lowering to 1 tsp then.)

Other than that, here is my setup:
- NYCD is in 1/2 gal pot atm, GSC in 1/2 gal, and Misty in 1 gal
- All under 8" ventilated cool tube (vented on both sides, Idk, like 250-300 CFM total-ish, it's kind of a janky fan set up but it works)
- 400 W USHIO (includes a blue spectrum) HPS bulb, powered by 400W galaxy digital ballast
- I think I already mentioned this, but I'm growing in 100% coco coir
- pH adjusted to 5.5-6.5
- Breeze blowing over all plants from larger (out of picture) fan (not too strong).
Let me know if I forgot to include anything needed.

Oh yeah, and I water the plants when the soil dries to knuckle deep, or I have a "moisture" reader that came with this REALLY shitty pH meter that has accuracy of about +/- 2.0 pH levels haha. I can stick the probe down to the bottom and it has a nice meter saying how wet the soil is down there. So Hey at least the thing was good for something.
I end up having to water once every 2-3 days on average. I water until I get about 10-20% runoff out the bottom of the pot. I use distilled for watering cuz my tap sucks I've discovered. THE STUFF GIVES MY GIRLFRIEND DIARRHEA. If it's bad for a human, it's bad for weed lol.
Thanks in advanced for any help! This took forever.

You need to get some pics in daylight or under a cfl so we can see them properly. Reduce watering as your overwatering atm.

Your other plants arent great either. They all have the same problem.

5 weeks from seed?? Looks like 2 weeks tops.....

Like bud said, better pictures would be a good start.

I have a feeling you're over loving them. It's a weed not a god damn pet.

You can buy an etekcity ph meter and some ph 4.01 solution to store it in for about $30. If you do, get the .05 accuracy one with temperature compensation.

Coco needs 5.8-6.0 and the range over or below that is known to cause some deficiencies.

What kind of humidifier do you have? The filterless ultrasonic ones work really well, just make sure to vinegar and bleach once a week or two.

SamsonsRiddle said:

You can buy an etekcity ph meter and some ph 4.01 solution to store it in for about $30. If you do, get the .05 accuracy one with temperature compensation.

Coco needs 5.8-6.0 and the range over or below that is known to cause some deficiencies.

What kind of humidifier do you have? The filterless ultrasonic ones work really well, just make sure to vinegar and bleach once a week or two.

Click to expand...

I just have a shitty little vaporizing humidifier from walmart. ... it works... or it used too before winter lol.
I feel the problem is pH. I have degree in chemistry and know all about how indicator solutions work... but I've discovered that around these pH levels close to neutral (5-9), there is NOTHING that will be accurate enough for you to definitively guess the pH. You can get like 10 solutions of different pH's set up and have a perfect spectrum of vials across the colors of the indicator(s), but you will NEVER be able to accurately guess the pH with 0.1 accuracy. More like 1.0... which will just fuck up all your plants, as is happening to mine.

It's crazy that GSC is just so hardy of a strain that it fairs okay under (whatever) conditions that are wrong here. While NYCD, with the exact same conditions, looks like shit. I'm afraid I might lose it at this point... which reallysucks bc I might end up harvesting only GSC (low yielder). Misty is not fem and is being incredibly reluctant to show any pre-flowers for some reason.

Last night (or I guess 2 days ago now) I was investigating and trying to fix this problem of what I think is from pH, and/or the amount of Cali-Magic that I had in solution. Apparently excess Cal-Mag can actually cause lock-out for potassium, note the burnt tips as if I have a potassium deficiency by zooming on the picture.
But anyways, my point is while trying to fix the problem i'm pretty sure I just fucked it up more. I had no idea (even using the color references on the bottle) whether my pH was too high or low. After some investigating with the indicator on different pH's, I finally decided I thought it was too basic (bc prior I had only been adding pH up to get to (what I thought was) around pH of 5.8.. Well, judging by the color change in the leaves today... pretty sure I fucked it up more. The plants are definetly doing something different... it's like they grew more, but the leaves are also yellowing... like... a LOT more. I put one fucking drop of pH down into a one gallon solution. ONE. And it's fucking them up. I just don't get it.

So I think I've come up with that the ONLY way to possibly fix this and get some legitimate growth is to get a pH meter and get the nutrient solution at a solid 5.8.

That being said, do you (samsonsriddle) or anyone else know of legitimate, WORKING pH meters to buy that are affordable? I've heard mixed reviews about all kinds of pH meters out there and I know a lot of them don't work for shit. I've seen the etekcity one online out there and it's cheap, but i'm a little weary bc of it. Can you or anyone else vouch for the etekcity pH meter actually working long term for them? I think I'm gonna go ahead and try it out if so.

Thanks for the help (And insults Snafuu). Also, Merry Christmas!


P.S Snafuu - I feel like I should hate you from your response, but it's like I can't for some reason. There's something about your profile picture that makes me really, really like you despite your negativity to me. We should hang out sometime. Merry Christmas.

-Honey Oil Riot Squad

I've used the etekcity .05 accuracy meter with temperature compensation since last february, and usually only have to recalibrate it about once a month and at only .02 or .03 increments.

I went ahead and bought some 4.01 solution so that i could put it in the cap to store the meter and some 7 solution to calibrate it. Ph meters like to be stored in an acidic solution and the 4.01 solution has worked perfect for me. I don't even waste time trying to calibrate for 4.01 and 7, i just calibrate it to the 7 ph solution and go from there.

At first, I would calibrate it every time just to make sure it was right. After doing this for about a month, i realized it stayed calibrated extremely well.

what soil are you using?

SamsonsRiddle said:

I've used the etekcity .05 accuracy meter with temperature compensation since last february, and usually only have to recalibrate it about once a month and at only .02 or .03 increments.

I went ahead and bought some 4.01 solution so that i could put it in the cap to store the meter and some 7 solution to calibrate it. Ph meters like to be stored in an acidic solution and the 4.01 solution has worked perfect for me. I don't even waste time trying to calibrate for 4.01 and 7, i just calibrate it to the 7 ph solution and go from there.

At first, I would calibrate it every time just to make sure it was right. After doing this for about a month, i realized it stayed calibrated extremely well.

Click to expand...

I was also reading some reviews on Amazon and it sounds like if you take care of it and calibrate it consistently it usually works. I'm gonna order both the etekcity pH meter and TDS meter, only 28 bucks if you order them together. Not bad! Hope it works out. There are solutions made specifically for storing glass pH electrodes, I'll probably get one of those and some 4 and 7 reference solutions with it... I don't trust those packets it comes with. That's smart just filling up the cap! I'm gonna do that as well.

polishpollack said:

what soil are you using?

Click to expand...

Coconut Fiber.

are you watering with fert in it too frequently? you say you water when it's knuckle dry but do you mean the first knuckle or your entire finger? I've never used coco but I'm guessing is pretty dense stuff when wet, will hold on to water/nute mix for a while, and maybe you just adding too much too soon. I'm not sure that fimming so early is such a good idea. maybe raise the bottom end of pH to 5.8 to avoid low pH problems, like no growth. maybe water with nutrients less frequently and see what happens.

Ok. So I think I've found some new important info. It looks like (ALL of the plants now, even GSC after that one watering) are having issues with Nitrogen deficiency. Leaves are really starting to yellow, and ONLY at bottom. Eventually, they dry and die and fall off. This is very obvious on GSC right now. I've done a little research and it looks like the solution to a Nitrogen problem is to ADD MORE NUTRIENTS.

That sounds scary af though, especially with NYCD being so small still (practically zero growth from where it was in photo still, and more leaves dying). All plants are showing the same thing with much more yellow leaves on bottom, perfectly green leaves on top. Here's a nutrient schedule with the exact same nutrients and soil I am using from a trusted source:

This is specifically for cannabis, growweedeasy.com is a good site if people are interested. Anyways, this suggests that atm I should be using 1/2 tsp grow, 1/2 tsp micro, and UP TO 1/4 tsp of bloom. (Plus at least 1/2 tsp Cal Mag)
Currently (from original post) I'm at 1/3 tsp grow, 1/3 tsp micro, 1/6 tsp bloom, and not quite 1/2 tsp Cal-Mag, but close (And previously, I was using a bit more). Even at this concentration however I am seeing shitty slow growth and plants are struggling. My instinct when this happens is that it is likely nute BURN, but now my research is showing me that perhaps it has actually been the opposite and I should be raising (at least) Nitrogen concentrations in my nute solution.
I NEED SOME ASSURANCE BEFORE I GO AHEAD AND DO THIS HOWEVER bc i'm afraid it's gonna fuck my plants up even more, which could mean the end of NYCD at this point o)
SHOULD I UP THE NUTE CONCENTRATION???? EEeek? Any help is greatly appreciated.


Other updates:
I've let up on watering a bit, both the frequency and amount of each watering- thus far in the couple weeks that have passed this has had no effect, if not a negative effect, on the plants. From what I've heard it's very difficult to overwater in coco, it has excellent drainage (I'm also about to transplant next into coco+perlite mix for even more). That's not to say that it's impossible to overwater, I just for some reason feel like the issue here is not from overwatering. When I check how dry the plants are I also usually use a moisture meter, all the way down to the bottom of the soil (coco) in the pot. When I water all plants are usually just about bone dry all the way to the bottom. That sounds very quick for a gallon/ half gallon pot to dry out (2-3 days), but I promise you it does!
HOWEVER, the reason it does this (dries out so quickly) is likely humidity................ FUCK WINTER. I now have a giant plastic tarp over all the plants (with aeration through it), that seems to help keep humidity a bit, but STILL I often come to it to find it too dry, even with humidifier on full blast . BLUGGHH. Humidity issues are coming along though... the tarp helps a little bit at least. Maybe I'll have that figured out by the time Winter is over and it's no longer a problem.... .

I have got my pH meter in the mail, storage solution, and 4 and 7 standards. So starting after my watering today, the pH should be at a good solid 5.8. I think the pH is part of the problem, but I don't think it could be all of the problem, especially if a Nitrogen deficiency is that main issue I seem to be having right now. Here's a chart to show my reasoning, Nitrogen absorbs VERY readily at practically any pH.


So, should I up my nute concentration to fix this problem or not? Thanks for any help or other suggestions!

-Honey Oil Riot Squad

I have noticed that you have them growing in anything. Is there adequate drain holes in the bottom of the pale, ground coffee container and the whatnot?

bird mcbride said:

I have noticed that you have them growing in anything. Is there adequate drain holes in the bottom of the pale, ground coffee container and the whatnot?

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There is plenty of drainage on the bottom of each pot, I make sure to put a bunch of holes in. Also each was rinsed thoroughly beforehand as well. I'm actually about to transplant into 3, 3 gallon fabric pots today with a coco perlite mixture to give a bit more room and see if that helps at all.

Somebody also asked whether I was watering with nutes every time. Yes I am, I have heard some people say it's better to water with nutes every other watering then plain pH'd water every other watering, and others swear by watering every time with nutes.

what breeder are these from?

They are from Midweek Song. Also Midweek Song Seed Bank. Here's a link: http://www.midweeksong.com/seed-bank/midweek-song-seedbank
I got Diesel (Which is what is about to die), Girl Scout Cookies, and Misty from them.

I actually got 6 seeds total from them, 3 of which (2 Misty and 1 super citrus haze) failed to germinate in rapid rooters... so i'm a little unhappy with that. Misty looks like it is finally showing preflowers though (only non-fem) and looks female, luckily for me.

Quite the tale. Here would be my observations;

1. Fan too small. Need more air/air movement.
2. Light too close. (I use a 400W MH/HPS and get poor results with it closer than about 24". Preferable 36" to induce the fruity flavors.)
3. That tape on the yellow bucket is not effective. Use more or better tape. Double check your other pots too. In another thread this fellows roots had either chlorophyll or algae on them from white buckets. Possibly the cause of his weird nutrient uptake issues.

Just some kind observations....

Oh, and you got some mushrooms that need pickin..!!

Over water and over feeding.

Can anybody comment on the upping Nitrogen Post?? That's my main question atm is whether I should up the nute concentration due to Nitrogen deficiency, I am weary about doing so, but Idk what else I can do. I have tried watering less with bad results already. Maybe that's a bit of the problem, but there's obviously more to it than that I would say...

orbo said:

Quite the tale. Here would be my observations;

1. Fan too small. Need more air/air movement.
2. Light too close. (I use a 400W MH/HPS and get poor results with it closer than about 24". Preferable 36" to induce the fruity flavors.)
3. That tape on the yellow bucket is not effective. Use more or better tape. Double check your other pots too. In another thread this fellows roots had either chlorophyll or algae on them from white buckets. Possibly the cause of his weird nutrient uptake issues.

Just some kind observations....

Oh, and you got some mushrooms that need pickin..!!

Click to expand...

Thank you for a kind helpful post lol. I'm curious about the light distance. I did have them fairly close at the time and just yesterday i raised it up more bc GSC was growing too close.
24" away from the light sounds like a LOT. I thought that around 11" was prime distance (the "sweet spot") from a 400W? Can anybody else vouch for an improvement when the light is 24-36" away with a 400W HPS? Seems like a lot, but hey, maybe I've been wrong all along on that. Also, that's not my only fan, I have a much larger one out of the picture.

Honey Oil Riot Squad said:

Thank you for a kind helpful post lol. I'm curious about the light distance. I did have them fairly close at the time and just yesterday i raised it up more bc GSC was growing too close.
24" away from the light sounds like a LOT. I thought that around 11" was prime distance (the "sweet spot") from a 400W? Can anybody else vouch for an improvement when the light is 24-36" away with a 400W HPS? Seems like a lot, but hey, maybe I've been wrong all along on that. Also, that's not my only fan, I have a much larger one out of the picture.

Click to expand...

Here's a link to some stuff I'm doing. This is a 4x4x7(ish) tent with 1 x 400HPS and 2 x 240 LED panels (old technology - hey I'm old). Just turned the LEDs on when I moved in the new plants. See my last update and look at my big Yumbolt.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/24-00-portable-scrog-any-value.891954/

Just peruse it.