Wtf? God?

preoQpydDlusion

Well-Known Member
alright i want to bring something up. most everybody i kno that 'believes in god' has no idea what they have faith in. they often call themselves christians but they quickly thro in a disclaimer like "well i dont read the bible or go to church, but i believe in something greater than us" (id like to bring up right quick how these ppl often act like they get fuckin rebel points or something for not being bible-beaters. ugh...)

anybody find this weird? i think its creepy. this so-called religion successfully covers up the fact that most of the western world is deeply dependent on viewing themselves as week. we're not little/big, weak/strong good/bad. we just are, why dont ppl accept that? (im not trying to be wow, deep here, i honestly want to kno what u guys think.
 

Token

Well-Known Member
I know what your talking about, I had a friend that was a baptis and he would try to agree with everybody about how there isn't a god but he would always have his cross, and around his family he would try in act like a saint. He thought it was cool to be a rebel like james dean or johnny depp, there just an attion hore.:peace:
 

closet.cult

New Member
they say American faith is like a river...a mile wide and an inch deep.

most people, in truth, do not realize they believe simply because: they were taught that way as children.

teach them something else as children, and they will believe that. but if you can't be bothered to research the validity of your beliefs, don't get offended when someone points out the obvious absurdity of your beliefs.

remember, you didn't CHOOSE to believe, as a child. others chose it for you. so what do they know?
 

Token

Well-Known Member
True, But most people still just act like they agree to be accepted, And i say stand up for what you believe in. And if you want to be accepted by a group go by yourself and think about it, open your mind to new ideas.:peace:
 

Reprogammed

Well-Known Member
Jesus man does this remind me of Burning Man 2003. Every year there's that one guy from Iowa or somewhere who comes in shorts and a tee and just gawks and always makes the mistake of slighting someone's religion.

I too am not a big fan of when people try to call themselves Christian when they haven't a clue of what comes with being a Christian.
 

Ethnobotanist

Well-Known Member
I think it's creepy too, my friend. Most people have no idea what Christianity is, let alone think of how it defines them. Then again, I think, as Closet.Cult indicated, most people don't even think about their spirituality. They have some vague notion based on attending a church at Christmas or going to Catholic school that "Jesus is God, he's coming back, and people tell me he's going to resurrect the dead. He taught a lot of good stuff."

If people even knew the complexity (and worldwide, the diversity) of belief in Christianity, or what the history is behind the orthodoxy they uphold without truly believing in, they'd run in the opposite direction. Evangelicals, while well-versed in scripture, are similarly clueless when it come to knowing WHY they believe the way they do. Most people, from what I've seen, are horribly afraid of facing their own mortality, never ponder or even give a thought to metaphysical questions, and are generally ignorant of the world around them, especially regarding religion. Those who are religious are willfully ignorant and willing to accept what they are told at face value because they believe that their religious experience validates what they are told (and they are told not to look outside what they are taught).

It's a rather dismal state most of the world is in. I'm overjoyed when I actually meet someone who can discuss the theological terminology of Paul, or debate the transmission of Midrash in regards to the formation of the Babylonian Talmud. Most people are just sheep, pure and simple. Emphasis on the simple.

~Ethno
 

skunkushybrid

New Member
I remember being 6 at infant school. We were in the dinner queue and I said to my friend that there was no such thing as god. He thought this was really bad and grassed me up to the teacher. I remember feeling scared, as though because i didn't believe I was somehow doing something wrong. I'll also never forget the teachers instant dismissal of what my friend had said, she shook her head and avoided eye contact with me.

As a child we are pressured into believing, luckily I had parents that encouraged me to search only for the truth.
 

Pizip

Well-Known Member
I believe in god but everyone has a different perception of god. And everytime a parent pushes the child into believing in something like that they dont know how to handle it and they dont ever want to go through it again. iunno just always always keep an open mind. like i've said on every post like this. :)
 

EmPot

Active Member
I think it's creepy too, my friend. Most people have no idea what Christianity is, let alone think of how it defines them. Then again, I think, as Closet.Cult indicated, most people don't even think about their spirituality. They have some vague notion based on attending a church at Christmas or going to Catholic school that "Jesus is God, he's coming back, and people tell me he's going to resurrect the dead. He taught a lot of good stuff."

If people even knew the complexity (and worldwide, the diversity) of belief in Christianity, or what the history is behind the orthodoxy they uphold without truly believing in, they'd run in the opposite direction. Evangelicals, while well-versed in scripture, are similarly clueless when it come to knowing WHY they believe the way they do. Most people, from what I've seen, are horribly afraid of facing their own mortality, never ponder or even give a thought to metaphysical questions, and are generally ignorant of the world around them, especially regarding religion. Those who are religious are willfully ignorant and willing to accept what they are told at face value because they believe that their religious experience validates what they are told (and they are told not to look outside what they are taught).

It's a rather dismal state most of the world is in. I'm overjoyed when I actually meet someone who can discuss the theological terminology of Paul, or debate the transmission of Midrash in regards to the formation of the Babylonian Talmud. Most people are just sheep, pure and simple. Emphasis on the simple.

~Ethno
I went to catholic school... and was turned away from the church because I saw straight through the BS.

The bible may have some historical importance, but thats it...

I can't wait for the time when religion is restricted to history class, and the teacher can openly say "the population was generally close minded and sheepish, which allowed them to willfully be ignorant and accepting of the 'absolute' power their kings/queens/presidents were given".

In a religious context to a religious person, the question WHY can ONLY be answered because "god wants it that way", or "god has a plan"... etc etc. Its a cop-out, and an absolute acceptance and EMBRACE of ignorance.

The idea of "he only helps those who help themselves" is the most idiotic statement in a religious context... I thought if I sit on my ass and pray all day, I get all the world? I thought if I give all I have to help OTHERS, I am rewarded x10? I'm told to give everything, up to my last dime, but I am only helped if I help myself?

When I asked myself why, how, and does any of this even make sense... I realized religion was a plot to blindfold the masses and get them to follow what the leaders of the day see fit.

Church is nothing more than a social event... not to downplay it, its a great thing... but it may just as well be a "community meeting".

And most importantly, the whole idea of "i interpret the bible the right way, your WRONG so I'm declaring war", or "my god > your god, so that means I can kill ure sorry ass" is ridiculous...

Religion promises something no man can prove or disprove... and thrives solely because "We dont know, so just in case".

I do believe religious ideals will feign in my lifetime, its already happening now... and I believe within 2 generations the church will be stripped of all but its most dedicated followers, to eventually float into ambiguity.

I do suggest checking out satanism... I believe it is the future of "religion".

and +1 rep for that post! :)
 

Ethnobotanist

Well-Known Member
Thank you, my friend. I do appreciate it.

I agree with you. For the most part- not all religions are that way. Dharmic religions (such as Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, etcetera) are not dogmatic. Although later there were some disagreements as to what the original teachings were, and there was some development of social ritual, hierarchial organisation, and even dogmatic belief... There was always an understood guideline that said no one was necessarily required to believe anything, do anything, and a profound respect for diversity of belief (and often, even non-belief). The Buddha's original teaching stressed that there were no "beliefs"; everything he taught was founded on experience and reason. He even encouraged people to challenge his philosophy, improve on it if they could, and to not accept anything he said on blind faith, but rather to search it out for themselves and test it. Hinduism obviously requires belief of some sort, but there are so many different strands of thought, one need not necessarily act on any particular belief. It's all accepted, and respected.

The Abrahamic religions are fundamentally different. Judaism is in a class all its own, but it actually "requires" very little, but indeed asks a lot. Islam is all about control and order. The world Islam actually means "submission", and Muslim means "one who submits". It's a masterful design of organized religion though. It's self-perpetuating, and one living in a Muslim community couldn't leave if they wanted to (without either being destroyed or destroying their life as they know it), due to the way it's structured.

Christianity, many scholars now think through very careful study, is not what it originally was. It was very much based around freedom, and though it was certered on revelation, it was very much ad-hoc, with no real dogma or even organization to speak of (besides apostles, deacons, and prophets which had much more general meanings than they do today). This freedom resulted in a VERY wide variety of differing viewpoints, and the majority, taking up the reigns, considered these heresy based on their interpretation of Paul. So they became hierarchial to suppress beliefs they felt were dangerous or wrong, and probably ended up upholding the worldview the original community of Christians were meant to philosophically oppose and change.

So yes. As it is now, you're mostly correct. But in the case of Christianity, it's a very top-heavy, distorted version of what it originally was. And it was not a tool to control the people, but they saw it instead as a path to liberation. People still speak very much of freedom in Christ, but they're taking it out of context. I'd suggest a book called "The Letters of Paul: Conversations in Context" by Calvin Roetzel. It's brilliant, and explains the theology of the original Christian community using only Paul's -authentic- epistles. It will open your eyes. Almost half of what's in the New Testament and attributed to Paul, modern scholarship tells us, is most likely not by him. Rather, it was written by people believing they were doing Paul's work, by imposing order on a chaotic community of diverse belief. A lot of the things that one thinks of when thinking of the "control" element of Christianity are in these writings, not the ones by Paul in his own words. Unfortunately, this was not an uncommon practice in antiquity (writing in someone else's name- it was often considered perfectly acceptable, unlike today), and history played out the way it did. With all the wretched things done in the name of religion.

I look forward to hearing what you think. :-)

~Ethno
 

EmPot

Active Member
I'm not at all against spirituality, if thats the persons path to happiness, they should head that way. My issues are within the church structure...

"So they became hierarchial to suppress beliefs they felt were dangerous or wrong, and probably ended up upholding the worldview the original community of Christians were meant to philosophically oppose and change."

That makes perfect sense.

"He even encouraged people to challenge his philosophy, improve on it if they could, and to not accept anything he said on blind faith, but rather to search it out for themselves and test it."

I only wish the whole world followed this way of thinking. No blind faith, no ignorant acceptance... seek to improve upon the already great teachings, and walk without fear - for there should be no fear in knowledge. Explore freely... what a concept.

Now, sir, that would be a great world, a world that brings a smile to my face.

Your post reminds me of how much I don't know... and how much I want to learn! Religion as history has always intrigued me (along with history in general, I particularly enjoy reading about those conquered).. I may have to get "The Letters of Paul: Conversations in Context" by Calvin Roetzel.

But, history is written by those who destroy the history of others... at the end of the day some crazed asshole could burst into my house and kill me... now, who gets to reproduce? :)

I feel a long night on wikipedia coming on!
 

Garden Knowm

The Love Doctor
Your probelms are not with the church.. your problems are "yor thoughts" about the church.... there is nothing but YOU and the thoughts you are responsible FOR... here on planet LOVE...


there is no noise that bothers you.. it is your thoughts about the noise...

there is nothing here except ONE's own constant commentary....

unless ONE can become dicsiplined enought and gather enough intention to stop the inner dialogue.... then ONE can finally see/experience GOD.... but since many don't like that word... feel free to call it anything else you like..

iloveyou
 

johnny1234

Well-Known Member
i agree with GK.

this constant chatter about religion, god, influence ect. it's all just differing viewpoints and opinions; all created from different angles of life experience.

It's good to be able to discuss the ins and outs of Christianity, but at the end of the day; if we can just accept all these opinions as "constant commentary."-gk we will realize that none of it really matters. what matters is BEing, observing life and not desperately trying to understand it.
 

el_maco

Well-Known Member
thats why i see practising religion useless
everyone of us have our own explanations of the universe, its almost impossible to sync your mind with another person, and unless you cant think by yourself you should think what you concluded, not what others tell you to think
 

Reprogammed

Well-Known Member
I think it's creepy too, my friend. Most people have no idea what Christianity is, let alone think of how it defines them. Then again, I think, as Closet.Cult indicated, most people don't even think about their spirituality. They have some vague notion based on attending a church at Christmas or going to Catholic school that "Jesus is God, he's coming back, and people tell me he's going to resurrect the dead. He taught a lot of good stuff."

If people even knew the complexity (and worldwide, the diversity) of belief in Christianity, or what the history is behind the orthodoxy they uphold without truly believing in, they'd run in the opposite direction. Evangelicals, while well-versed in scripture, are similarly clueless when it come to knowing WHY they believe the way they do. Most people, from what I've seen, are horribly afraid of facing their own mortality, never ponder or even give a thought to metaphysical questions, and are generally ignorant of the world around them, especially regarding religion. Those who are religious are willfully ignorant and willing to accept what they are told at face value because they believe that their religious experience validates what they are told (and they are told not to look outside what they are taught).

It's a rather dismal state most of the world is in. I'm overjoyed when I actually meet someone who can discuss the theological terminology of Paul, or debate the transmission of Midrash in regards to the formation of the Babylonian Talmud. Most people are just sheep, pure and simple. Emphasis on the simple.

~Ethno
Birds of a feather, my friend. Damn close to being handed my Theology degree (after four years of studying dominating my life) after I finish my papers on the Torah's influence on the Old Testament, the structure of American society by Christianity, and common misconception associated with Tibetan Buddhism. After all that, I'm going out for my Historical Theology Masters at St. Louis U and later (hopefully) put in the life-consuming work of attaining a PhD in Theology at Boston.
If you ever want a healthy discussion (perhaps exchange our views on the lunacy of Leviticus being applied to modern day law?), drop me a line at [email protected].
 
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