Carne Seca
Well-Known Member
Global collapse and probably not.
Wow. This Whole Debt Ceiling Thing Is BS
- Thread starter tet1953
- Start date
Global collapse and probably not.
DelSlow
Well-Known Member
Well that sucks. What the fuck are they waiting for? There's too much political jerking off going on. Horse fuckers.
Johnnyorganic
Well-Known Member
In 2006, a tax cut for the 200,000-aires and 250,000-aires was not even part of the political dialogue.
It was the war in Iraq the Democrats were focused on then.
How things have changed.
There is nothing symbolic in a 'nay' vote. It was not recorded as symbolic. Just 'nay.'
What IS significant is that the good Senator was not even there to vote 'present' on the subsequent votes in 2007 and 2008.
Now that's symbolic.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
Government spending immediately stops. Social security, medicare, military paychecks all wouldn't go out. We would start to default on our treasuries. Our credit rating would likely be downgraded. It would likely cause a depression. Basically, the living nightmare scenario would be the most likely outcome.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
There is nothing symbolic in a 'nay' vote. It was not recorded as symbolic. Just 'nay.'
What IS significant is that the good Senator was not even there to vote 'present' on the subsequent votes in 2007 and 2008.
Now that's symbolic.
Was it a deciding vote? No. That vote meant nothing. It was symbolic. You can argue about the use of the word "symbolic" all you want but we both know that vote didn't cause the debt ceiling not to be raised. That's what the republicans are threatening to do. The same congress members who've voted to raise it many times are all of a sudden threatening to hold the government and our financial system hostage if they don't vote to raise it.
Personally, I think Obama should call them on their bluff. Give them absolutely nothing. If they vote against raising it then the consequences will be on them. But of course they wouldn't vote against it. It's an empty threat.
In 2006, a tax cut for the 200,000-aires and 250,000-aires was not even part of the political dialogue.
It was the war in Iraq the Democrats were focused on then.
How things have changed.
There is nothing symbolic in a 'nay' vote. It was not recorded as symbolic. Just 'nay.'
What IS significant is that the good Senator was not even there to vote 'present' on the subsequent votes in 2007 and 2008.
Now that's symbolic.
you are not serious??? the debt ceiling needed to be raised because of the 70 billion dollar annual hole the bush tax cuts were burning into our budget.
they weren't part of the political discourse because bush was president and there was no way those tax cuts were going anywhere.
it was a nay vote because it made sense back then. the republicans were giving the special interests special treatment and putting the entire country on the hook.... oh how times have changed indeed...
sync0s
Well-Known Member
Political parties ruin our country. That being said, you guys miss the fact that the main reason it's not being voted for is because they want the spending budget to take large decreases. Sounds logical to me. If I were in congress I wouldn't allow our country to sink deeper into debt whilst spending the same amount of, or more, money. I mean seriously, how can you guys possibly think that a country can be healthy and prosperous when we incur trillions of dollars in debt and continue to increase our debt without making spending cuts? Would this make sense to do in your home budget?
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
It's not. You're not considering the effect cutting government spending would have on the economy. Cutting spending in a bad economy simply isn't done. Every time it's been attempted the result has been a massive spike in unemployment.
Of course the republicans know this and that's why they are pushing for spending cuts. When they do result in a double dip recession. They will of course blame Obama for that, making it easier for them to beat him in a general election. The republicans don't give a shit about spending or the deficit. They never have. They want one thing. Obama to fail so they can take the whitehouse. The best way to do that is to force Obama into cutting spending. That's the game they are playing.
Republicans have voted against cutting subsidies to mutlinational oil companies. They push for massive tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans. These are not things people who are serious about balancing the budget do. They don't give a shit about that. All they want to do is crash the economy so they can get a republican in the white house.
That is why we are having a national conversation about cutting spending. It has nothing to do with balanced budgets or fiscal responsibility. It's about making the economy worse so they can win an election.
The time to cut spending is during a strong economy, like Clinton did with welfare reform. Not when it's likely to result is to put us into a crippling recession. That's insanity. The debt is a long term problem, not an immediate problem. The immediate problem is unemployment. Spending cuts make that worse.
It's healthier to have debt temporarily than a depression which would result in a further decrease of revenue and more debt. Either way we end up with debt, might as well fix the unemployment problem first since it is the immediate problem.
It's not your home budget. It doesn't work remotely similar. If you think it is, then you have no idea what you're talking about.
tet1953
Well-Known Member
I always get ticked off when some republican or tea partier claims that Obama or any other dem "wants America to fail". Just the notion that any of our leaders could want our nation to fail is absurd to me. And yet, I believe you are right. I think republicans really do want such a thing.
I believe we are heading for real bad times in this country. Class warfare has been going on for some time now, but it's going to get really bad I think. Riots in the streets and stuff.
I believe we are heading for real bad times in this country. Class warfare has been going on for some time now, but it's going to get really bad I think. Riots in the streets and stuff.
You can't "FIX" unemployment unless you can make the rest of the world start buying made in the USA products. Especially Americans.
Who buys most of the US Treasuries? The Federal reserve purchases 80% of all of them. Why? Because the other countries don't want any of our debt, its not a safe place to be. other countries want gold.
Who buys most of the US Treasuries? The Federal reserve purchases 80% of all of them. Why? Because the other countries don't want any of our debt, its not a safe place to be. other countries want gold.
yet more pile of shit lies.
the federal reserve is the primary buyer of treasury securities because that way it has more control over our monetary policy. the treasury department puposefully offers the fed a shot at the treasury notes first and they buy them up b/c no matter how much you say that the US is in danger,
THE SAFEST INVESTMENT YOU CAN GET IS A US TREASURY SECURITY. just because we have a black guy in the white house doesn't change that.
fucking alarmism. you can shove it right up that dramatic ass of yours....
the federal reserve is the primary buyer of treasury securities because that way it has more control over our monetary policy. the treasury department puposefully offers the fed a shot at the treasury notes first and they buy them up b/c no matter how much you say that the US is in danger,
THE SAFEST INVESTMENT YOU CAN GET IS A US TREASURY SECURITY. just because we have a black guy in the white house doesn't change that.
fucking alarmism. you can shove it right up that dramatic ass of yours....
Mr Neutron
Well-Known Member
That is EXACTLY right.
Ignorant BS. The Federal Reserve does not get first shot at Treasuries. IT IS ILLEGAL FOR THE FED TO PURCHASE TREASURIES DIRECTLY FROM THE GOVERNMENT!!!!!!! LOOK IT UP!!!!!!! Primary Dealers Are the ones who get first crack.
Purchasing your own treasuries is called MONETIZATION OF DEBT!!!! Guess what it causes?
If they were purposefully doing this in order to move the economy then why haven't they ever done it before? They are doing it because they have no choice. China is a net SELLER of treasuries, so is Japan. Ever heard of QE before this economic tumble ?
What does the Presidents skin color have to do with the economy? Nothing! You racist!
Safest investment you can make is Physical gold, it can never default, you have allodial title, it is not someone elses liability.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
The thing about republicans is they aren't seeing what they do as bad for the country. They see it as if they can get the economy to fail they can get in office and long term it will be good for the country. But they absolutely are trying to tank the economy for their own gains.
lol, and how did THAT end? I'll tell you , it ended up with a major disaster and 20% of the nation being uninhabitable for the next 500 generations!! Everyone knows that QE ends in nuclear disaster, just look at Japan!!
LOL
Its an absurd correlation, but nonetheless I have seen more absurd ones made by Government lately.
beardo
Well-Known Member
Both sides are the same and the argument is for show, They will raise the debt ceiling so they can continue to spend money and they will use the threat of the debt to continue to cut benefits to those truly in need and funding to lagitamie programs and services.
They want to increase the money they have available to spend on expanding and enforcing their power.
They want to increase the money they have available to spend on expanding and enforcing their power.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
Well there are lots of things we can do to help it. But we aren't doing those things, instead we are discussion options to make it worse, which is nuts.
I Absolutely agree, Neither side wants what is best for the country. Each side wants what is best for themselves.
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