markybuds
Well-Known Member
some misinformation here.
MG deficiency starts in the lower leaves and works it's way up. 'bleaching' would be exactly whats happening... 'at the top of plants under LED's'
Why do people say Calsium & Magnesium is `required` for LED -grows ?
- Thread starter hölynpöly
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MG deficiency starts in the lower leaves and works it's way up. 'bleaching' would be exactly whats happening... 'at the top of plants under LED's'
FranJan
Well-Known Member
Could it be something along these lines, cause this cal/mag thing is starting to get under my skin:
A LED panel doesn't, (at least not always), provide a plant with all the spectrums of visible light. Cannabis needs/utilizes a certain wavelength of light to complete a certain biological function. If this spectrum is not present, it uses calcium and/or magnesium to complete this function, hence the need to use extra cal/mag. Sort of like how the body will make energy using oxygen (aerobic), but can make energy other ways if oxygen is not present (anaerobic). And since a lot of early LED growers were using nothing but red and blue LEDs, the plants light requirements were not being met. Now we've got some panels with "white" LEDs providing more spectrum and some people aren't finding the need to supplement.
This of course is only open thinking and the amount of plant biology I know wouldn't fill a shot glass. Still I'm curious about all this and I'm just having a hard time completely understanding that adding cal/mag can protect my plants from photo-biological stress. Maybe it's time to ask one of the straights at Amherst?
Ohh and LuVMeSome420 could you post some picks?
A LED panel doesn't, (at least not always), provide a plant with all the spectrums of visible light. Cannabis needs/utilizes a certain wavelength of light to complete a certain biological function. If this spectrum is not present, it uses calcium and/or magnesium to complete this function, hence the need to use extra cal/mag. Sort of like how the body will make energy using oxygen (aerobic), but can make energy other ways if oxygen is not present (anaerobic). And since a lot of early LED growers were using nothing but red and blue LEDs, the plants light requirements were not being met. Now we've got some panels with "white" LEDs providing more spectrum and some people aren't finding the need to supplement.
This of course is only open thinking and the amount of plant biology I know wouldn't fill a shot glass. Still I'm curious about all this and I'm just having a hard time completely understanding that adding cal/mag can protect my plants from photo-biological stress. Maybe it's time to ask one of the straights at Amherst?
Ohh and LuVMeSome420 could you post some picks?
hölynpöly
Member
I think you got a good working hypothesis analogy when you compare the plants thrive to flourish to when peoples muscles go to lactic acid overdose in during power exercises ( wikied datshiz )..
Just using red and blue light as many led configurations have used, maybe isn´t enough as was thought initially. I have never understood adding orange light to the mix. And some are adding GREEN into the mix what seems Überweirdish.
Maybe just red and blue wavelenghts put a plant in overgear phase which it can´t take. Something is missing? I´m starting to think that the best light mix is plenty of white (to chill) with a blue and red mixed and acting like boosts. The whole thing that led sellers claim that HPS wastes energy on wavelenghts little used by plants can´t be completely true as we know how well they work.
Anyway I have calsium deficiency showing in my plants. The plants under 60 truewatt led and 45watt 4400k cfl (not the best K but its what I got...) Low res pic coming
).. Just using red and blue light as many led configurations have used, maybe isn´t enough as was thought initially. I have never understood adding orange light to the mix. And some are adding GREEN into the mix what seems Überweirdish.
Maybe just red and blue wavelenghts put a plant in overgear phase which it can´t take. Something is missing? I´m starting to think that the best light mix is plenty of white (to chill) with a blue and red mixed and acting like boosts. The whole thing that led sellers claim that HPS wastes energy on wavelenghts little used by plants can´t be completely true as we know how well they work.
Anyway I have calsium deficiency showing in my plants. The plants under 60 truewatt led and 45watt 4400k cfl (not the best K but its what I got...) Low res pic coming
Senseimilla
Well-Known Member
I think it's more likely that it is getting more red & blue at the specific wavelengths of the LED which for some reason requires more micronutes.
LuvMeSum420
Active Member
This is RP Kandy Kush (almost done) in hydro and I have had her within an inch or two of the Blackstar 240 for most of her adult life with no problems at all, and producing some of the sticky-ickiest bud I have ever grown.
It is only the new growth, right up against the LED, which has been coming out colorless. No problems with existing growth.
Kandy Kush LOVES nutes, and I had just let my res go for two weeks, so this is likely a nutrient deficiency; my guess is Fe.
If this only happens at the end, then I am not too concerned. I think that the LEDs are doing exactly what I want them to do. I blame my own laziness this time.
FranJan
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the pics Luv!
Yup the top of my SLH will do something like that if it gets too close to my BS240, but it will also show a pattern on the leaves that resembles a boron deficiency and it never goes away. First time I saw it I thought it was mold! I'm vegging some SLH clones right now and am gonna try to avoid this when I flower them this time.
If I had the extra space I would probably try to test/observe the Cal/Mag thing on a section of my SoG, but I got a Tangerine Dream bush in the middle of the SoG taking up too much time and room already. Maybe in 2013 when it finally finishes I can give it a shot.
Yup the top of my SLH will do something like that if it gets too close to my BS240, but it will also show a pattern on the leaves that resembles a boron deficiency and it never goes away. First time I saw it I thought it was mold! I'm vegging some SLH clones right now and am gonna try to avoid this when I flower them this time.
If I had the extra space I would probably try to test/observe the Cal/Mag thing on a section of my SoG, but I got a Tangerine Dream bush in the middle of the SoG taking up too much time and room already. Maybe in 2013 when it finally finishes I can give it a shot
.LuvMeSum420
Active Member
Well I am no photographer, but for me I just had to see the bleaching to believe it.
Something about the discrete wavelengths of these LEDs must be overdriving the photosynthesis to deplete those nutes.
Just gotta tweak the process a little I guess.
Another good sticky-icky strain. Due to a previous poor cure, this one gives me moldophobia.
Anyhow, I just flowered a GH SLH, and she did not stretch under LED as much as I was expecting so she is a little runty, but we can compare notes in a few weeks.
Meanwhile, I have a veg LED on the way and I am looking forward to vegging the shit out of my SLH clone!
Reminds me of when I tried SSH, just got in the way and took FOREVER to finish. Never again.If I had the extra space I would probably try to test/observe the Cal/Mag thing on a section of my SoG, but I got a Tangerine Dream bush in the middle of the SoG taking up too much time and room already. Maybe in 2013 when it finally finishes I can give it a shot
So far I am getting good LED vibes from the indicas, but not feeling the sativas yet. Again possibly a wavelength/nutrient problem.
We may ultimately learn that some strains just do not like LED.
With LEDs I am finding that flowering seems to start a little earlier and last a little longer, but worth it.
Some say you get less with LED, but my trichromes are covered with trichromes now, and I would rather smoke less leaf with more THC anyway.
Slixxor
Well-Known Member
I think it's because led growers are naturally pedantic people maybe 
we look into new types of growing and experimenting and hence try this and that etc... Not sure if that makes sense but I know when I started with LEDs I monitored everything constantly and tried a few tricks here and there.
Calmag is needed in any grow, we know this. Something interesting though.. Plants get beta carotene from orange spectrum of light something most led lights lack. Which means there is a link between light and nutrition so maybe that is why experienced led growers say is true about the calmag.
we look into new types of growing and experimenting and hence try this and that etc... Not sure if that makes sense but I know when I started with LEDs I monitored everything constantly and tried a few tricks here and there.Calmag is needed in any grow, we know this. Something interesting though.. Plants get beta carotene from orange spectrum of light something most led lights lack. Which means there is a link between light and nutrition so maybe that is why experienced led growers say is true about the calmag.
Senseimilla
Well-Known Member
It is true all grows need cal-mag -- it's not true they all need supplementation. I've never had to use a cal-mag specific supplement before going LED. I'm pretty sure LEDs for whatever reason use more, and sure it's tied to spectrums somehow... extra supplementation in the soil is the way to go for preventing leaf problems in soil.
PuffaloSoldier
Member
If any one in 2019 reading this, all these people had their leds too close which caused the bleaching in my opinion. The thread is from 2012 before people realised that just because it's nt hot dosnt mean it it won't burn.
Calcium and magnesium deficiencies show when there is PH lock out due to overwatering. it's usually something else causing what looks like a deficiency, don't believe the bottled cal/mag hype.
Calcium and magnesium deficiencies show when there is PH lock out due to overwatering. it's usually something else causing what looks like a deficiency, don't believe the bottled cal/mag hype.
Figure if you were going to bump 7 year old thread that you would at least point out the calcium and magnesium are both macronutrients, not micronutrients. The rest should fall into place.
Dynamo626
Well-Known Member
Honestly I always preached it as an old wives tale. As the manager of a hydro store I did a ton of research so as to give the best advice. I could never find any concrete scientific studies.Personally, before I got in trouble I used 630de cmh lighting. I never had to add extra cal/mag before. It is legal in Ohio now so I got a new set up with the Fluence Spider Fang. 5 days ago I noticed what I thought may be a mag deficiency but they just started growing quickly and the leaves were super tiny. I was hoping I was wrong. Transplanted 3 days ago and yep. Beginnings of a mag deficiency. Got some RO Elemental to top dress so I don't have this problem moving forward, and some cal mag for an immediate fix for a few feedings until the top dress starts to break down. Here are the girls today. Obvious mag deficiency.
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amneziaHaze
Well-Known Member
Dont know how it can be a old wifes tale when you have photos of plants with mag deficency.
