ChChoda
Well-Known Member
No harm, no foul. Only Pelosi...
Why America Must Prosecute War Crimes
- Thread starter GrowRebel
- Start date
GrowRebel
Well-Known Member
Yep ... I am of that opinion ... anyone involved should be prosecuted ... the masterminds of course should receive the worst punishment ...
greatghanjadude
Member
The three best friends of democrats and libertarians are Dick Cheney, Rush Limbaugh and Newt Gingrich. With these self-appointed GOP spokesmen presenting their self-centered ideology to the American people on a sickeningly frequent basis the impending doom of the GOP is assured. Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld should be prosecuted as enemies of the American people. Thousands of our young men paid with their lives for the non-existent weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and thousands more remain in harms way because of their despicable actions.
medicineman
New Member
well said, + reps.
ChChoda
Well-Known Member
So, the three best friends of Democrats should be prosecuted as enemies of the American people? Does not the saying go something like, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."? So, the enemy of the American people are the best friends of Democrats? Does that not make the Democrats the enemy, right along with the people they tout as their best friends? It is true, the Democrats need these three figures as much as the air that they breathe, so to begrudgingly befriend them seems rational. However, who would that leave as our, the American peoples, friend? Not the Democrat befriending Republicans, to be sure.
GrowRebel
Well-Known Member
... the torture ... especially msmbc ... sometimes cnn ... faux of course is blatant with the spin but the others can be too ... of course you can form your own opinion with the videos I've posted ...
http://crooksandliars.com/nicole-belle/reframing-debate-torture-correct-wayReframing The Debate On Torture The Correct Way
David Waldman, also known as Kagro X at DailyKos and Congress Matters, appeared on a CNN webshow and showed these mealy-mouthed Democratic Party talking heads how to really frame and control the debate on torture. Finally, someone on who has a firm grasp of the facts and will not allow the discussion to get sidetracked to pointless distractions. Jane Hamsher put it best:
The successful hijacking of the torture debate by its proponents obscures the underlying facts, as Kagro makes abundantly clear:
Have I ever mention that I though P. King is a fucking asshole ... well ... he is.
http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/peter-king-says-getting-truth-about-torPeter King says getting to the truth about torture is anti-American
Why is it so difficult for the Villagers to allow the natural process of investigation to take place so we can get to the truth about how the Bush Administration used torture? Peter King uses the usual conservative talking point that says we hate America if we want to find the root cause for this moral cancer in the beltway. King attacks the ACLU as America-haters when all they are doing is righting a terrible wrong that was let loose by Bush and Cheney.
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/liz-cheney-claims-her-father-would-not-subLiz Cheney Claims Her Father Would Not Substitute His Own Judgment for the Professional Judgment of the CIA
During the panel discussion on This Week, Liz Cheney contradicted the reporting in The Daily Beast and from Jane Mayer and claimed her father would not have substituted his judgment for that of the CIA. She attacks Lawrence Wilkerson personally as having "fantasies" about what the Vice President has done since he left office
Like I said before ... the fruit doesn't fall very far from the war criminal tree ...
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/rachel-maddow-show-jane-mayer-cheneys-involvementRachel Maddow Show: Jane Mayer on Cheney's Involvement With the CIA's Intelligence Gathering
Rachel Maddow talks to Jane Mayer about the amount of involvement Dick Cheney had with the CIA in pushing them for the intelligence he wanted to make the case for the invasion of Iraq.
http://crooksandliars.com/nicole-belle/chris-matthews-show-has-cheney-influeThe Chris Matthews Show: Has Cheney Influenced Obama's National Security Decisions?
Centuries from now, when historians want to know how it all went so terribly wrong for the United States, all they need to do is look at this clip. They'll listen how these talking heads--people allegedly employed for the purpose of informing the public--these supposed erudite and informed members of the pundit class just yawned and shrugged at the notion of the torture of human beings, preferring to look at it from a political point of view.
Check out Andy S. in this video ... he is dead on and he's a conservative ... big time ... who voted for B/C in 2000. An conservative who obviously gets it ... the are some enlighten conservatives ... well shut my mouth!
Jesse Ventura PWNED!!! Hasselbeck On The View
[youtube]gHyy2sgm8Io[/youtube]
Why so often in the media does this become a technical brain cramp? Jesse does a great job of deflecting the "Nancy Pelosi said this" and "so-and-so did that." He also easily dismisses arguments claiming waterboarding is effective as a truth-finding tool.
This just in ... it goes without saying that many of these people were tortured ... it's crazy to think torture is okay and effective ...
http://rupeenews.com/2009/03/24/90-of-gitmo-priosners-innocent-lawrence-b-wilkerson-deputy-to-colin-powell/90% of Gitmo prisoners innocent:-Lawrence B. Wilkerson deputy to Colin Powell
Lifelong Republican, and chief of staff to former Secretary of State Colin Powell, Lawrence B. Wilkerson, stepped forward in ablog post on Tuesday to say not only that there are still innocent people being held at the detention camp at Guantanamo Bay, not only that weve been holding innocent people there for more than six years, but that the U.S. government has known all along that they pose no risk to national security.
Ah hum ... here some interesting news ... it ties into the report I posted about chaney's hit squad ... check it ...
http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/south-asia/us-journo-claims-bhutto-was-killed-on-cheneys-orders_100194038.htmlUS journo claims Bhutto was killed on Cheneys orders
A special death squad assassinated Pakistans former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto on the orders of former US Vice-President Dick Cheney, an Arab TV channel has reported.
Cheney was the chief of the Joint Special Operation Command and he cleared the way for the US by exterminating opponents through the unit and the CIA. General Stanley was the in-charge of the unit, The Nation quoted US columnist Seymour Hersh, as saying.
The US death unit killed Bhutto because she had told Al-Jazeera TV about the assassination of Osama Bin Laden, Hersh said.
... and they certainly don't want that cat out the general bag ... now do they? Here's another report on the same matter ...
http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/Politics/18-May-2009/US-special-squad-killed-Benazir'US special squad killed Benazir'
Former prime minister of Pakistan Benazir Bhutto was assassinated on the orders of the special death squad formed by former US vice-president Dick Cheney, which had already killed the Lebanese Prime Minister Rafique Al Hariri and the army chief of that country.
The squad was headed by General Stanley McChrystal, the newly-appointed commander of US army in Afghanistan. It was disclosed by reputed US journalist Seymour Hersh while talking to an Arab TV in an interview.
Hersh said former US vice-president Cheney was the chief of the Joint Special Operation Command and he clear the way for the US by exterminating opponents through the unit and the CIA. General Stanley was the in-charge of the unit.
See alsohttp://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/12/30/pakistan.politics/index.htmlNew video appears to show Bhutto being shot.
Note that this assassination was covered with a "suicide" bombing, which if Hersh is correct means that Americans are behind some of these "suicide" bombs. WRH
http://www.alternet.org/story/140068Cheney's Chief Assassin Is Now Obama's Commander in Afghanistan
McChrystals rise to leadership is marked by his central role in directing special operations teams engaged in extrajudicial assassinations, systematic torture, bombing of civilian communities and search and destroy missions. He is the very embodiment of the brutality and gore that accompanies military-driven empire building. Between September 2003 and August 2008, McChrystal directed the Pentagons Joint Special Operations (JSO) Command which operates special teams in overseas assassinations.
So tell me Obama supporters ... what do you think of all this? Do you still believe he will bring the "change" he promise? It looks like business as usual ... exactly why I could not vote for him. I knew he was going to back the elite ... why else would they allow him to win the election?
These guys in this next report should be facing way more than disbarment
http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/05/18/activists-file-complaints-to-have-bush-lawyers-involved-in-sanctioning-torture-disbarred/12 Bush lawyers face disbarment complaints
A liberal activist group has filed disciplinary complaints in four states and the District of Columbia calling for the disbarment of twelve lawyers they say are associated with the Bush administrations position on torture.
The complaints running more than 500 pages enumerate in excruciating detail the case against key Bush officials that participated in defending torture techniques employed by the administration against alleged al Qaeda suspects.
The complaints are posted online at disbartorturelawyers.com.
Well kids ... once again there is a good bit of news concerning the torture and this is a very good thing. The more the facts are presented the more pressure will be put on the DOJ to do their fucking job! Let's hope these reports continue ... they are good for the country and the people.
http://crooksandliars.com/nicole-belle/reframing-debate-torture-correct-wayReframing The Debate On Torture The Correct Way
David Waldman, also known as Kagro X at DailyKos and Congress Matters, appeared on a CNN webshow and showed these mealy-mouthed Democratic Party talking heads how to really frame and control the debate on torture. Finally, someone on who has a firm grasp of the facts and will not allow the discussion to get sidetracked to pointless distractions. Jane Hamsher put it best:
The successful hijacking of the torture debate by its proponents obscures the underlying facts, as Kagro makes abundantly clear:
- Private contractors were conducting torture
- It was torture for political gain
- Pollsters should be asking if Americans support using torture to extract false confessions for political purposes, because that's what happened
Have I ever mention that I though P. King is a fucking asshole ... well ... he is.
http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/peter-king-says-getting-truth-about-torPeter King says getting to the truth about torture is anti-American
Why is it so difficult for the Villagers to allow the natural process of investigation to take place so we can get to the truth about how the Bush Administration used torture? Peter King uses the usual conservative talking point that says we hate America if we want to find the root cause for this moral cancer in the beltway. King attacks the ACLU as America-haters when all they are doing is righting a terrible wrong that was let loose by Bush and Cheney.
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/liz-cheney-claims-her-father-would-not-subLiz Cheney Claims Her Father Would Not Substitute His Own Judgment for the Professional Judgment of the CIA
During the panel discussion on This Week, Liz Cheney contradicted the reporting in The Daily Beast and from Jane Mayer and claimed her father would not have substituted his judgment for that of the CIA. She attacks Lawrence Wilkerson personally as having "fantasies" about what the Vice President has done since he left office
Like I said before ... the fruit doesn't fall very far from the war criminal tree ...
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/rachel-maddow-show-jane-mayer-cheneys-involvementRachel Maddow Show: Jane Mayer on Cheney's Involvement With the CIA's Intelligence Gathering
Rachel Maddow talks to Jane Mayer about the amount of involvement Dick Cheney had with the CIA in pushing them for the intelligence he wanted to make the case for the invasion of Iraq.
http://crooksandliars.com/nicole-belle/chris-matthews-show-has-cheney-influeThe Chris Matthews Show: Has Cheney Influenced Obama's National Security Decisions?
Centuries from now, when historians want to know how it all went so terribly wrong for the United States, all they need to do is look at this clip. They'll listen how these talking heads--people allegedly employed for the purpose of informing the public--these supposed erudite and informed members of the pundit class just yawned and shrugged at the notion of the torture of human beings, preferring to look at it from a political point of view.
Check out Andy S. in this video ... he is dead on and he's a conservative ... big time ... who voted for B/C in 2000. An conservative who obviously gets it ... the are some enlighten conservatives ... well shut my mouth!
Jesse Ventura PWNED!!! Hasselbeck On The View
[youtube]gHyy2sgm8Io[/youtube]
Why so often in the media does this become a technical brain cramp? Jesse does a great job of deflecting the "Nancy Pelosi said this" and "so-and-so did that." He also easily dismisses arguments claiming waterboarding is effective as a truth-finding tool.
This just in ... it goes without saying that many of these people were tortured ... it's crazy to think torture is okay and effective ...
http://rupeenews.com/2009/03/24/90-of-gitmo-priosners-innocent-lawrence-b-wilkerson-deputy-to-colin-powell/90% of Gitmo prisoners innocent:-Lawrence B. Wilkerson deputy to Colin Powell
Lifelong Republican, and chief of staff to former Secretary of State Colin Powell, Lawrence B. Wilkerson, stepped forward in ablog post on Tuesday to say not only that there are still innocent people being held at the detention camp at Guantanamo Bay, not only that weve been holding innocent people there for more than six years, but that the U.S. government has known all along that they pose no risk to national security.
Ah hum ... here some interesting news ... it ties into the report I posted about chaney's hit squad ... check it ...
http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/south-asia/us-journo-claims-bhutto-was-killed-on-cheneys-orders_100194038.htmlUS journo claims Bhutto was killed on Cheneys orders
A special death squad assassinated Pakistans former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto on the orders of former US Vice-President Dick Cheney, an Arab TV channel has reported.
Cheney was the chief of the Joint Special Operation Command and he cleared the way for the US by exterminating opponents through the unit and the CIA. General Stanley was the in-charge of the unit, The Nation quoted US columnist Seymour Hersh, as saying.
The US death unit killed Bhutto because she had told Al-Jazeera TV about the assassination of Osama Bin Laden, Hersh said.
... and they certainly don't want that cat out the general bag ... now do they? Here's another report on the same matter ...
http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/Politics/18-May-2009/US-special-squad-killed-Benazir'US special squad killed Benazir'
Former prime minister of Pakistan Benazir Bhutto was assassinated on the orders of the special death squad formed by former US vice-president Dick Cheney, which had already killed the Lebanese Prime Minister Rafique Al Hariri and the army chief of that country.
The squad was headed by General Stanley McChrystal, the newly-appointed commander of US army in Afghanistan. It was disclosed by reputed US journalist Seymour Hersh while talking to an Arab TV in an interview.
Hersh said former US vice-president Cheney was the chief of the Joint Special Operation Command and he clear the way for the US by exterminating opponents through the unit and the CIA. General Stanley was the in-charge of the unit.
See alsohttp://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/12/30/pakistan.politics/index.htmlNew video appears to show Bhutto being shot.
Note that this assassination was covered with a "suicide" bombing, which if Hersh is correct means that Americans are behind some of these "suicide" bombs. WRH
http://www.alternet.org/story/140068Cheney's Chief Assassin Is Now Obama's Commander in Afghanistan
McChrystals rise to leadership is marked by his central role in directing special operations teams engaged in extrajudicial assassinations, systematic torture, bombing of civilian communities and search and destroy missions. He is the very embodiment of the brutality and gore that accompanies military-driven empire building. Between September 2003 and August 2008, McChrystal directed the Pentagons Joint Special Operations (JSO) Command which operates special teams in overseas assassinations.
So tell me Obama supporters ... what do you think of all this? Do you still believe he will bring the "change" he promise? It looks like business as usual ... exactly why I could not vote for him. I knew he was going to back the elite ... why else would they allow him to win the election?
These guys in this next report should be facing way more than disbarment
http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/05/18/activists-file-complaints-to-have-bush-lawyers-involved-in-sanctioning-torture-disbarred/12 Bush lawyers face disbarment complaints
A liberal activist group has filed disciplinary complaints in four states and the District of Columbia calling for the disbarment of twelve lawyers they say are associated with the Bush administrations position on torture.
The complaints running more than 500 pages enumerate in excruciating detail the case against key Bush officials that participated in defending torture techniques employed by the administration against alleged al Qaeda suspects.
The complaints are posted online at disbartorturelawyers.com.
Well kids ... once again there is a good bit of news concerning the torture and this is a very good thing. The more the facts are presented the more pressure will be put on the DOJ to do their fucking job! Let's hope these reports continue ... they are good for the country and the people.
GrowRebel
Well-Known Member
It's already been well established in this thread that the dim are in it up to their necks ... both parties are corporate controlled.
TheBrutalTruth
Well-Known Member
Ja, unfortunately that is the nature of government.
At some point it becomes so large that it is no longer administrating for the benefit of all, but for the benefit of the connected.
medicineman
New Member
Oh, you are so confused.
Microdizzey
Well-Known Member
Not sure if this has been posted yet.
[youtube]DW9sesBESSs[/youtube]
Biden was asked about a criminal investigation of the nanothermite in the WTC during the attack. The look on his face (and the wench in blue behind him), and the answer he gives is priceless.
[youtube]DW9sesBESSs[/youtube]
Biden was asked about a criminal investigation of the nanothermite in the WTC during the attack. The look on his face (and the wench in blue behind him), and the answer he gives is priceless.
GrowRebel
Well-Known Member
Big thanks for posting that video ... I didn't know that went down ... those guy from we are change have titanium balls! Big time! They are Americans we can all be very proud of.
If you have more video like that feel free to post it here or in the 911 thread ...
There is a ton of news on the torture subject ... I will post as much as I can for now. Check it ... now all you bushwhack ... question for ya ... what happen to your boy hannity? You saw ... well I posted a video of him claiming he would allow himself to be waterboarded for charity... what happen with that? ... could it be he was just blowing it out his ass ... as usual? Here's a right-wing pundit that put his money where his mouth was ...
http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/right-wing-talker-mancow-gets-waterboarRight-wing talker Mancow gets waterboarded and says: "It's Absolutely Torture "
Mancow Muller, the right-wing Chicago talk-show host, thought that waterboarding is just a little fun. A joke.
Turns out the stunt wasn't so funny. Witnesses said Muller thrashed on the table, and even instantly threw the toy cow he was holding as his emergency tool to signify when he wanted the experiment to stop. He only lasted 6 or 7 seconds.
"It is way worse than I thought it would be, and that's no joke,"Mancow said, likening it to a time when he nearly drowned as a child. "It is such an odd feeling to have water poured down your nose with your head back...It was instantaneous...and I don't want to say this: absolutely torture."
These right wingers actually believe the crap they say. Why would the US prosecute the Japanese back in WWII over their use of it on our people? Why would it take Bush and Cheney to get the OLC to write bogus memos to get around the legalities of torture? I'm against torture, but I can't do anything about stupidity. He couldn't last ten seconds. I say, bring it on and if you're stupid enough to declare that waterboarding is not torture, go for it. I just hope you don't have a heart attack.
So tell us again all you bushwhacked how waterboarding isn't torture ... it's like rush said nothing more than a school prank ...
Still waiting for your boy hannity ... rawstory issued a report as well ...
http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/05/conservative-radio-hosts-waterboarded/Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before saying its torture
Chicago radio host Erich "Mancow" Muller decided he'd get himself waterboarded to prove the technique wasn't torture.
It didn't turn out that way
http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/dept-pre-crime-obama-expresses-supporDept. of Pre-Crime: Obama Expresses Support for Indefinite Detention Without Charges
Well, I'm just going to say it: Obama gives a very nice speech, but his plans worry me. Ever see "Minority Report," the movie with Tom Cruise? Set in the future, he works for the Department of Pre-Crime. The police use technology to predict who will commit crimes, and they arrest them before the crimes happen.
Don't pretty this up, folks. This is exactly the position Obama expressed in his speech today, and if we keep silent simply because he's a Democrat, well, we're not doing our job as citizens of this democratic republic.
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/countdown-special-comment-dick-cheneys-speCountdown: Special Comment on Dick Cheney's Speech--In the Name of God, Go!
From Countdown, Keith's Special Comment after watching Dick Cheney's speech today. Keith takes former Vice President Cheney to task for defending the use of torture while refusing to accept any responsibility for his actions.
http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/obama-gitmo-and-torture-regime-wereObama: Gitmo and the torture regime were 'misguided experiments'
WASHINGTON - President Barack Obama forcefully defended his plans to close the Guantanamo detention camp Thursday and said some of the terror suspects held there would be brought to top-security prisons in the United States despite fierce opposition in Congress.
This doesn't jive with the other reports I've posted ... I think Obama is just doing lip service ... nothing more.
http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/jesse-ventura-piledrives-yellow-elepVentura's smashdown tour continues, with Yellow Elephant Kilmeade the latest victim
Jesse Ventura's been making the rounds lately by taking on all comers on the issue of torture, which has left little quivering wingnuts like Joe Scarborough having to resort to attacking him out of his immediate presence.
http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/jesse-ventura-destroys-sean-hannity-wh-0Jesse Ventura slams Sean Hannity, who actually says America is 'better off' after George Bush!
Jesse Ventura has been going on TV a lot lately because he's promoting his new book, but he's been littering the airwaves with the carcasses of dead conservative talking points when it comes to the topic of torture and George Bush.
Rachel chimes in on the indefinite detention ... check it ...
Rachel Maddow: Indefinite detention? Shame on you... President Obama
[youtube]1uuWVHT1WUY[/youtube]
http://www.prisonplanet.com/media-ignores-real-controversy-behind-torture-photos-they-show-prison-guards-raping-children.htmlMedia Ignores Real Controversy Behind Torture Photos; They Show Prison Guards Raping Children
The real reason behind Obamas reversal of a decision to release the torture photos has been almost completely ignored by the corporate media - the fact that the photos show both US and Iraqi soldiers raping teenage boys in front of their mothers.
The Obama administration originally intended to release photos depicting torture and abuse of detainees in Afghanistan and Iraq by the end of May, following a court order arising out of a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit first filed by the ACLU in 2004.
However, a reversal of Obamas decision was announced this week, after he changed his mind after viewing some of the images and hearing warnings from his generals in Iraq and in Afghanistan that such a move would endanger US troops deployed there, according to a Washington Post report.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1900035,00.htmlObama: Still Opposed to Truth Commission
Dick Cheney's displeasure and Nancy Pelosi's discomfiture may have revived the idea of setting up a "truth commission" to look into the Bush-era counterterrorism policies, but President Barack Obama still wants no part of it.
The reason is simple. any investigation into the use of torture is eventually going to get to the case of Ibn al-Sheikh al-Libi, the man tortured into confessing a link between Al Qaeda and Saddam; the sole justification for the invasion of Iraq.
If the entire pretext for war with Iraq is shown to be a fraud to the entire world (like we don't already know) then selling a new war in Iran for his Israeli masters becomes more difficult for Obama.
Along with that little problem of the entire government being delegitimized by lying us all into a war of conquest.WRH
Well kids ... there are plenty of other reports, but I just don't have the time to post them all now ... perhaps I will later ... been a big planting day ... late spring here official planting season is this weekend
If you have more video like that feel free to post it here or in the 911 thread ...
There is a ton of news on the torture subject ... I will post as much as I can for now. Check it ... now all you bushwhack ... question for ya ... what happen to your boy hannity? You saw ... well I posted a video of him claiming he would allow himself to be waterboarded for charity... what happen with that? ... could it be he was just blowing it out his ass ... as usual? Here's a right-wing pundit that put his money where his mouth was ...
http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/right-wing-talker-mancow-gets-waterboarRight-wing talker Mancow gets waterboarded and says: "It's Absolutely Torture "
Mancow Muller, the right-wing Chicago talk-show host, thought that waterboarding is just a little fun. A joke.
Turns out the stunt wasn't so funny. Witnesses said Muller thrashed on the table, and even instantly threw the toy cow he was holding as his emergency tool to signify when he wanted the experiment to stop. He only lasted 6 or 7 seconds.
"It is way worse than I thought it would be, and that's no joke,"Mancow said, likening it to a time when he nearly drowned as a child. "It is such an odd feeling to have water poured down your nose with your head back...It was instantaneous...and I don't want to say this: absolutely torture."
These right wingers actually believe the crap they say. Why would the US prosecute the Japanese back in WWII over their use of it on our people? Why would it take Bush and Cheney to get the OLC to write bogus memos to get around the legalities of torture? I'm against torture, but I can't do anything about stupidity. He couldn't last ten seconds. I say, bring it on and if you're stupid enough to declare that waterboarding is not torture, go for it. I just hope you don't have a heart attack.
So tell us again all you bushwhacked how waterboarding isn't torture ... it's like rush said nothing more than a school prank ...
Still waiting for your boy hannity ... rawstory issued a report as well ...http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/05/conservative-radio-hosts-waterboarded/Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before saying its torture
Chicago radio host Erich "Mancow" Muller decided he'd get himself waterboarded to prove the technique wasn't torture.
It didn't turn out that way
http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/dept-pre-crime-obama-expresses-supporDept. of Pre-Crime: Obama Expresses Support for Indefinite Detention Without Charges
Well, I'm just going to say it: Obama gives a very nice speech, but his plans worry me. Ever see "Minority Report," the movie with Tom Cruise? Set in the future, he works for the Department of Pre-Crime. The police use technology to predict who will commit crimes, and they arrest them before the crimes happen.
Don't pretty this up, folks. This is exactly the position Obama expressed in his speech today, and if we keep silent simply because he's a Democrat, well, we're not doing our job as citizens of this democratic republic.
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/countdown-special-comment-dick-cheneys-speCountdown: Special Comment on Dick Cheney's Speech--In the Name of God, Go!
From Countdown, Keith's Special Comment after watching Dick Cheney's speech today. Keith takes former Vice President Cheney to task for defending the use of torture while refusing to accept any responsibility for his actions.
http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/obama-gitmo-and-torture-regime-wereObama: Gitmo and the torture regime were 'misguided experiments'
WASHINGTON - President Barack Obama forcefully defended his plans to close the Guantanamo detention camp Thursday and said some of the terror suspects held there would be brought to top-security prisons in the United States despite fierce opposition in Congress.
This doesn't jive with the other reports I've posted ... I think Obama is just doing lip service ... nothing more.
http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/jesse-ventura-piledrives-yellow-elepVentura's smashdown tour continues, with Yellow Elephant Kilmeade the latest victim
Jesse Ventura's been making the rounds lately by taking on all comers on the issue of torture, which has left little quivering wingnuts like Joe Scarborough having to resort to attacking him out of his immediate presence.
http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/jesse-ventura-destroys-sean-hannity-wh-0Jesse Ventura slams Sean Hannity, who actually says America is 'better off' after George Bush!
Jesse Ventura has been going on TV a lot lately because he's promoting his new book, but he's been littering the airwaves with the carcasses of dead conservative talking points when it comes to the topic of torture and George Bush.
Rachel chimes in on the indefinite detention ... check it ...
Rachel Maddow: Indefinite detention? Shame on you... President Obama
[youtube]1uuWVHT1WUY[/youtube]
http://www.prisonplanet.com/media-ignores-real-controversy-behind-torture-photos-they-show-prison-guards-raping-children.htmlMedia Ignores Real Controversy Behind Torture Photos; They Show Prison Guards Raping Children
The real reason behind Obamas reversal of a decision to release the torture photos has been almost completely ignored by the corporate media - the fact that the photos show both US and Iraqi soldiers raping teenage boys in front of their mothers.
The Obama administration originally intended to release photos depicting torture and abuse of detainees in Afghanistan and Iraq by the end of May, following a court order arising out of a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit first filed by the ACLU in 2004.
However, a reversal of Obamas decision was announced this week, after he changed his mind after viewing some of the images and hearing warnings from his generals in Iraq and in Afghanistan that such a move would endanger US troops deployed there, according to a Washington Post report.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1900035,00.htmlObama: Still Opposed to Truth Commission
Dick Cheney's displeasure and Nancy Pelosi's discomfiture may have revived the idea of setting up a "truth commission" to look into the Bush-era counterterrorism policies, but President Barack Obama still wants no part of it.
The reason is simple. any investigation into the use of torture is eventually going to get to the case of Ibn al-Sheikh al-Libi, the man tortured into confessing a link between Al Qaeda and Saddam; the sole justification for the invasion of Iraq.
If the entire pretext for war with Iraq is shown to be a fraud to the entire world (like we don't already know) then selling a new war in Iran for his Israeli masters becomes more difficult for Obama.
Along with that little problem of the entire government being delegitimized by lying us all into a war of conquest.WRH
Well kids ... there are plenty of other reports, but I just don't have the time to post them all now ... perhaps I will later ... been a big planting day ... late spring here official planting season is this weekend
GrowRebel
Well-Known Member
I hope you all are spending the day in your manner of tradition ... I shall plant for the occasion ... new life to commemorate those that have fallen in battle.
Now back to the news ... there is a lot of news still on big mouth cheney and the rest of the bushwhack desperately trying to convince america waterboarding isn't torture and cheney along with the rest of the regime aren't war criminals ... hows that working out for the rest of you? Do you folks think cheney is running his mouth because he is scared of prosecution? ... or is he just making sure his ass is covered ... at least in this country ... like my last post with the video stated ... I wouldn't travel out of the country if I were any of them.
http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/matthew-alexander-dissects-cheneys-speehttp://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/matthew-alexander-dissects-cheneys-spee[URL="http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/matthew-alexander-dissects-cheneys-spee"]Matthew Alexander dissects Cheney's speech on Gitmo and torture and more....[/url]
First, VP Cheney said, "This recruitment-tool theory has become something of a mantra lately...it excuses the violent and blames America for the evil that others do. He further stated, "It is much closer to the truth that terrorists hate this country precisely because of the values we profess and seek to live by, not by some alleged failure to do so." That is simply untrue. Anyone who served in Iraq, and veterans on both sides of the aisle have made this argument, knows that the foreign fighters did not come to Iraq en masse until after the revelations of torture and abuse at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay. I heard this from captured foreign fighters day in and day out when I was supervising interrogations in Iraq. What the former Vice President didn't say is the fact that the dislike of our policies in the Middle East were not enough to make thousands of Muslim men pick up arms against us before these revelations. Torture and abuse became Al Qaida's number one recruiting tool and cost us American lives.
So let's not hear anymore of the bullshit about how torture saved lives ... that's just a cheney neocon lie ... they have nothing what so ever to back the lie either ... notice that. Nothing to prove the toture they did saved lives ... yet there is plenty of evidence that it cost lives. Oh yeah ... still waiting on your boy hannity to have himself waterboarded ... he claimed on his show ... video posted ... that he would do it for charity ... for the troops ... so where is he ... all you bushwhacks ... where is your boy hannity ... looks like he's a coward like the rest of you.
http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/liz-cheney-vs-lawrence-odonnell-debatinhttp://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/liz-cheney-vs-lawrence-odonnell-debatin[URL="http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/liz-cheney-vs-lawrence-odonnell-debatin"]Liz Cheney vs Lawrence O'Donnell: Debating torture on GMA[/url]
Mini Cheney is just as slick as her father when it comes to throwing out the right-wing canards on torture, and she has avoided most people who have a good grasp of the facts when she goes on the air. The fact that wingers are getting a lot of airtime to reargue their position is helpful to them because they play the word games very well. The Luntzification Effect has reaped huge rewards for them in the last decade.
Well kids ... even though there are more reports on this out there ... this will be it for a while ... want to get back to the fun of the day ... know what I mean ... jelly bean? ... smoke em' if you got em' ...
Now back to the news ... there is a lot of news still on big mouth cheney and the rest of the bushwhack desperately trying to convince america waterboarding isn't torture and cheney along with the rest of the regime aren't war criminals ... hows that working out for the rest of you?
Do you folks think cheney is running his mouth because he is scared of prosecution? ... or is he just making sure his ass is covered ... at least in this country ... like my last post with the video stated ... I wouldn't travel out of the country if I were any of them.http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/matthew-alexander-dissects-cheneys-speehttp://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/matthew-alexander-dissects-cheneys-spee[URL="http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/matthew-alexander-dissects-cheneys-spee"]Matthew Alexander dissects Cheney's speech on Gitmo and torture and more....[/url]
First, VP Cheney said, "This recruitment-tool theory has become something of a mantra lately...it excuses the violent and blames America for the evil that others do. He further stated, "It is much closer to the truth that terrorists hate this country precisely because of the values we profess and seek to live by, not by some alleged failure to do so." That is simply untrue. Anyone who served in Iraq, and veterans on both sides of the aisle have made this argument, knows that the foreign fighters did not come to Iraq en masse until after the revelations of torture and abuse at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay. I heard this from captured foreign fighters day in and day out when I was supervising interrogations in Iraq. What the former Vice President didn't say is the fact that the dislike of our policies in the Middle East were not enough to make thousands of Muslim men pick up arms against us before these revelations. Torture and abuse became Al Qaida's number one recruiting tool and cost us American lives.
So let's not hear anymore of the bullshit about how torture saved lives ... that's just a cheney neocon lie ... they have nothing what so ever to back the lie either ... notice that. Nothing to prove the toture they did saved lives ... yet there is plenty of evidence that it cost lives. Oh yeah ... still waiting on your boy hannity to have himself waterboarded ... he claimed on his show ... video posted ... that he would do it for charity ... for the troops ... so where is he ... all you bushwhacks ... where is your boy hannity ... looks like he's a coward like the rest of you.
http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/liz-cheney-vs-lawrence-odonnell-debatinhttp://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/liz-cheney-vs-lawrence-odonnell-debatin[URL="http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/liz-cheney-vs-lawrence-odonnell-debatin"]Liz Cheney vs Lawrence O'Donnell: Debating torture on GMA[/url]
Mini Cheney is just as slick as her father when it comes to throwing out the right-wing canards on torture, and she has avoided most people who have a good grasp of the facts when she goes on the air. The fact that wingers are getting a lot of airtime to reargue their position is helpful to them because they play the word games very well. The Luntzification Effect has reaped huge rewards for them in the last decade.
Well kids ... even though there are more reports on this out there ... this will be it for a while ... want to get back to the fun of the day ... know what I mean ... jelly bean? ... smoke em' if you got em' ...
P
PadawanBater
Guest
This thread is completely one sided now man, nobody can defend the shit these war criminals did.
GrowRebel
Well-Known Member
Yes, the bushwhack have been wonderfully silent in the last few post. You are right there is no defense ... looks like even darth cheney can no longer lie well enough for them to defend the indefensible.
I'm sure there is plenty to report on the subject ... when I get the time I will play catchup.
I'm sure there is plenty to report on the subject ... when I get the time I will play catchup.
greatghanjadude
Member
Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld are all guilty of lying to Congress, lying to the American people, killing more American citizens than 9/11, authorizing torture, violating the Constitution of the United States and other crimes. They should be stripped of their citizenship, and surrendered to the World Court for trial on their war crimes.
GrowRebel
Well-Known Member
... more press releases on the war criminals ... and there crimes ... looks like Obama going to be joining them ...
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/05/obama-justice-department-continues-bushs-state-secrets-argumentagain.htmlObama Justice Department Continues Bush's 'State Secrets' Argument...Again
In a court filing submitted in the middle of the night, President Obama's Justice Department is continuing the "state secrets" argument of his predecessor in litigation over the National Security Agency's Terrorist Surveillance Program.
In the middle of the night the Justice Department filed its response in the court case, telling a federal judge, who has ordered it to disclose information in the case, that Justice is still asserting the state secrets privilege.
"The Government has merely declined voluntarily to agree to a protective order that would, in the Government's view, require disclosures that would irretrievably compromise important national security interests," the Justice Department filing said.
Webmaster's Commentary:
This reeks.
The more the alleged "Justice Department" is allowed to get away with this, the more they will indulge in this kind of behavior, exponentially.WRH
http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/gen-petraeus-believes-our-values-and-coGen. Petraeus: US violated Geneva Convention, the court of law could try terrorists: we made mistakes after 9/11: Close Gitmo
Gen. Petraeus joined FOX News and Martha MacCallum today and gave a blockbuster interview, but probably not the one Fox expected. Once again, he called for the responsible closure of the military prison at Guantanamo Bay. He also said that mistakes were made after 9/11 and that the Army Field Manual is all that we need to use to interrogate prisoners. In addition, he said that we have to have faith in our judicial system and we should try the Khalid Sheikh Muhammads in a court of law.
Isn't is funny how all these generals sing a different tune once out from under the thumb of the regime? This is why we called him Betrayus ... he did ... now try to make amends ... all too late.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/naomi-wolf/busted-pentagon-why-the-p_b_209046.htmlBusted, Pentagon: Why The Photos Probably Do Show Detainees Sodomized and Raped
These photos go to exactly why Obama is burning what is left of the shreds of the Constitution by calling for preemptive detention for about 100 detainees. It ain't because they are `too dangerous,' his pathetic justification. It is because their bodies are crime scenes. It is because the torture, including possibly the sexual assault, they experienced is likely to be so horrific that if they were ever to have their day in court it is others whom Obama needs who would be incriminated.
Obama's getting pretty dirty in this ... I suspected this would happen ... he was too much in the court of the corporations when he voted ... this is why I would not support him in the election ... that and I detest the DNC.
So all you bushwhacked that claim we don't torture ... is rape and sodomy torture? Is it ok for the US to rape children in front of their parents is that ok with you?
Here's a little article that shows cheney is full of shit ... but those of us that are enlighten already know this ...
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/05/29/levin.cheney/Levin: Memos don't show what Cheney says they do
Sen. Carl Levin, chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, says former Vice President Dick Cheney's claims -- that classified CIA memos show enhanced interrogation techniques like waterboarding worked -- are wrong.
Levin, speaking at the Foreign Policy Association's annual dinner in New York on Wednesday, said an investigation by his committee into detainee abuse charges over the use of the techniques -- now deemed torture by the Obama administration -- "gives the lie to Mr. Cheney's claims."
The Michigan Democrat told the crowd that the two CIA documents that Cheney wants released "say nothing about numbers of lives saved, nor do the documents connect acquisition of valuable intelligence to the use of abusive techniques."
Not that I trust or believe Leivn ... I don't ... I just know that cheney is a friggin' liar and releasing those memos would prove it ... that's why they won't be released ...
How to Make Terrorists Talk
The most successful interrogation of an Al-Qaeda operative by U.S. officials required no sleep deprivation, no slapping or "walling" and no waterboarding. All it took to soften up Abu Jandal, who had been closer to Osama bin Laden than any other terrorist ever captured, was a handful of sugar-free cookies.
So much for the bull shit talking points about waterboarding being effective.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0509/Poll_57_percent_oppose_torture_investigation.htmlPoll: 57 percent oppose torture investigation
A majority of Americans by a healthy 57-percent-to-42-percent margin oppose a congressional investigation into Bush-era torture allegations, according to a new CNN/ORD poll of 2,000 adults (+/- 2 percent).
The breakout questions are even more telling
Here's another poll ...
http://whatreallyhappened.com/content/congressional-investigation-bush-era-tortureCongressional investigation into Bush-era torture?
I'm far more incline to believe a poll I can participate in rather than one I can't and know of no one that has ... anyone in the audience ever had a friend or someone you know particpate in these so call CNN corporate media polls? Speak up if you have ... my point is there aren't anyone who know anyone ... so why should we believe them?
Here's another release on Betrayus ...
http://rawstory.com/rawreplay/?p=3507US violated Geneva Conventions, Bush Iraq commander says
The head of the US Central Command, General David Petraeus, said Friday that the US had violated the Geneva Conventions in a stunning admission from President Bushs onetime top general in Iraq that the US may have violated international law.
When we have taken steps that have violated the Geneva Conventions we rightly have been criticized, so as we move forward I think its important to again live our values, to live the agreements that we have made in the international justice arena and to practice those, Gen. Petraeus said on Fox News Friday afternoon.
Webmaster's Commentary:
Sincere repentance the rest of the world will believe can be found only in war crimes trials.
... followed by executions.WRH
Okay kids ... that's all give you for now ... let it all sheap in ... you don't have to take my word ... do your own damn investigation and you will find the truth ...which will set you free ...
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/05/obama-justice-department-continues-bushs-state-secrets-argumentagain.htmlObama Justice Department Continues Bush's 'State Secrets' Argument...Again
In a court filing submitted in the middle of the night, President Obama's Justice Department is continuing the "state secrets" argument of his predecessor in litigation over the National Security Agency's Terrorist Surveillance Program.
In the middle of the night the Justice Department filed its response in the court case, telling a federal judge, who has ordered it to disclose information in the case, that Justice is still asserting the state secrets privilege.
"The Government has merely declined voluntarily to agree to a protective order that would, in the Government's view, require disclosures that would irretrievably compromise important national security interests," the Justice Department filing said.
Webmaster's Commentary:
This reeks.
The more the alleged "Justice Department" is allowed to get away with this, the more they will indulge in this kind of behavior, exponentially.WRH
http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/gen-petraeus-believes-our-values-and-coGen. Petraeus: US violated Geneva Convention, the court of law could try terrorists: we made mistakes after 9/11: Close Gitmo
Gen. Petraeus joined FOX News and Martha MacCallum today and gave a blockbuster interview, but probably not the one Fox expected. Once again, he called for the responsible closure of the military prison at Guantanamo Bay. He also said that mistakes were made after 9/11 and that the Army Field Manual is all that we need to use to interrogate prisoners. In addition, he said that we have to have faith in our judicial system and we should try the Khalid Sheikh Muhammads in a court of law.
Isn't is funny how all these generals sing a different tune once out from under the thumb of the regime? This is why we called him Betrayus ... he did ... now try to make amends ... all too late.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/naomi-wolf/busted-pentagon-why-the-p_b_209046.htmlBusted, Pentagon: Why The Photos Probably Do Show Detainees Sodomized and Raped
These photos go to exactly why Obama is burning what is left of the shreds of the Constitution by calling for preemptive detention for about 100 detainees. It ain't because they are `too dangerous,' his pathetic justification. It is because their bodies are crime scenes. It is because the torture, including possibly the sexual assault, they experienced is likely to be so horrific that if they were ever to have their day in court it is others whom Obama needs who would be incriminated.
Obama's getting pretty dirty in this ... I suspected this would happen ... he was too much in the court of the corporations when he voted ... this is why I would not support him in the election ... that and I detest the DNC.
So all you bushwhacked that claim we don't torture ... is rape and sodomy torture? Is it ok for the US to rape children in front of their parents is that ok with you?
Here's a little article that shows cheney is full of shit ... but those of us that are enlighten already know this ...
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/05/29/levin.cheney/Levin: Memos don't show what Cheney says they do
Sen. Carl Levin, chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, says former Vice President Dick Cheney's claims -- that classified CIA memos show enhanced interrogation techniques like waterboarding worked -- are wrong.
Levin, speaking at the Foreign Policy Association's annual dinner in New York on Wednesday, said an investigation by his committee into detainee abuse charges over the use of the techniques -- now deemed torture by the Obama administration -- "gives the lie to Mr. Cheney's claims."
The Michigan Democrat told the crowd that the two CIA documents that Cheney wants released "say nothing about numbers of lives saved, nor do the documents connect acquisition of valuable intelligence to the use of abusive techniques."
Not that I trust or believe Leivn ... I don't ... I just know that cheney is a friggin' liar and releasing those memos would prove it ... that's why they won't be released ...
How to Make Terrorists Talk
The most successful interrogation of an Al-Qaeda operative by U.S. officials required no sleep deprivation, no slapping or "walling" and no waterboarding. All it took to soften up Abu Jandal, who had been closer to Osama bin Laden than any other terrorist ever captured, was a handful of sugar-free cookies.
So much for the bull shit talking points about waterboarding being effective.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0509/Poll_57_percent_oppose_torture_investigation.htmlPoll: 57 percent oppose torture investigation
A majority of Americans by a healthy 57-percent-to-42-percent margin oppose a congressional investigation into Bush-era torture allegations, according to a new CNN/ORD poll of 2,000 adults (+/- 2 percent).
The breakout questions are even more telling
Here's another poll ...
http://whatreallyhappened.com/content/congressional-investigation-bush-era-tortureCongressional investigation into Bush-era torture?
I'm far more incline to believe a poll I can participate in rather than one I can't and know of no one that has ... anyone in the audience ever had a friend or someone you know particpate in these so call CNN corporate media polls? Speak up if you have ... my point is there aren't anyone who know anyone ... so why should we believe them?
Here's another release on Betrayus ...
http://rawstory.com/rawreplay/?p=3507US violated Geneva Conventions, Bush Iraq commander says
The head of the US Central Command, General David Petraeus, said Friday that the US had violated the Geneva Conventions in a stunning admission from President Bushs onetime top general in Iraq that the US may have violated international law.
When we have taken steps that have violated the Geneva Conventions we rightly have been criticized, so as we move forward I think its important to again live our values, to live the agreements that we have made in the international justice arena and to practice those, Gen. Petraeus said on Fox News Friday afternoon.
Webmaster's Commentary:
Sincere repentance the rest of the world will believe can be found only in war crimes trials.
... followed by executions.WRH
Okay kids ... that's all give you for now ... let it all sheap in ... you don't have to take my word ... do your own damn investigation and you will find the truth ...which will set you free ...
GrowRebel
Well-Known Member
Okay kids ... I admit I've neglected the war crimes report and a lot has happen ... so bare with me while I update the thread ... Looks like Obama and his cronies are following the same path as the bush crime regime. Now he will have to be held accountable for torture and blocking prosecution of said crime ... lots to report.
Court Rules In Favor Of Transparency In Guantánamo Cases
In an important ruling affecting the public's access to records regarding the cases of Guantánamo detainees, a federal court today denied a government motion to seal unclassified information related to those cases. Judge Thomas F. Hogan of the United States District Court for the District of Columbia, citing a "First Amendment and common law right to access" judicial records, ruled that the government cannot suppress unclassified documents and must seek court approval to seal specific information.
Well ... at least the ACLU is still for the people ... us commoners.
Waterboarding was well done, Cheney says
Here's another example of the war criminal cheney admitting he committed war crimes. Here's one from bush ...
Bush: I Personally Authorized Torture Of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed
BUSH: One such person who gave us information was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. And Im in the Oval Office and I am told that we have captured Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and the professionals believe he has information necessary to secure the country. So I ask what tools are available for us to find information from him and they gave me a list of tools, and I said are these tools deemed to be legal? And so we got legal opinions before any decision was made.
They all knew they were breaking the law ... this was to cover their ass ... the only reason they are not being prosecuted is elite members from both parties inside and outside the government would hang. And no elite will allow another elite to hang for the torture and death of a few million peons ... no way.
Supreme Court Justice Aids Torture Coverup
Supreme Court Justice Ruth Ginsburg approved an Obama administration request to have an additional 30 days to submit their appeal to justify suppressing the photos of US troops torturing detainees in Iraq and Afghanistan. The administration can now dally until July 9 before submitting their brief arguing their case.
Webmaster's Commentary:
An additional 30 days to "sanitize" the photos?
An additional 30 days for the world to imagine the worst?
An additional 30 days for the credibility of the United States Government to rot.
Obama's really blowing it on this issue ... no doubt ... as far as I'm concerned he must be brought up on charges for obstruction of justice ... along with his DOJ.
Here's an interesting comentary ... I'm sure some of you have heard this before ... but it still needs to be said again ... and again ... and again ... and again ...
FLASHBACK-War Is A Racket
USMC General and 2 time Congressional Medal of Honor winner Smedley Butler's views on war. A speech delivered in 1933.
Too many people just never learn ... quite sad really.
WAR is a racket. It always has been
It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.
A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.
... and from the bushwhacked favorite web site ...
Cheney: Execute Terrorists If Cuba Prison Must Close
Former Vice President Dick Cheney said Monday that the only alternative to holding some suspected terrorists indefinitely would be to execute them, arguing against the Obama administration's plans to close the Guantanamo detainee prison.
Webmaster's Commentary:
Here is the problem. Bush and Cheney are basing their entire justification of torture and imprisonment of these individuals on the assumption these are the "worst of the worst." Yet the claim is made that they cannot be tried through the normal justice system and sent to regular prisons.
It is clear that the real issue is that these people still stuck in Guantanamo may not be guilty of anything except exceedingly bad luck. They may be among those kidnapped at random and sold to the US forces for the reward money, then tortured into confessing something.
Once they are allowed to go free and tell their side of the story, and the rest of the world sees they are just regular folk caught up in the US torture machine, it will be yet another nail in the war crimes gallows for Bush and Cheney, and another body-check to US credibility.
So, Dick's solution is to silence these "live liabilities", permanently!
Maybe he'll just take them quail hunting.
Powell Told U.S. Tortured Detainees, But He Failed to Act
Notes of the meeting state that Powell indicated that he would have to talk to his colleagues [including Taft] on ICRCs issue of access to detainees in Afghanistan and elsewhere.
The next month, February 2004, the ICRC gave Bush administration officials a confidential report which found that U.S. occupation forces in Iraq often arrested Iraqis without good reason and subjected them to abuse and humiliation that sometimes was tantamount to torture in violation of the Geneva Conventions.
Webmaster's Commentary:
As a side note, the ICRC had full and unlimited access to the Nazi slave-labor camps during WW2.
Judge: Gitmo legal documents must be made public
A federal judge ordered the United States on Monday to publicly reveal unclassified versions of its allegations and evidence justifying the continued imprisonment of more than 100 detainees being held at Guantanamo Bay.
Webmaster's Commentary:
The reason for sealing unclassified reports is that they show that most of the people locked up on Guantanamo haven't actually done anything wrong to justify their treatment.
Former CIA station chief challenges claims that torture thwarted terror attacks
Milton Bearden, a former Central Intelligence Agency Pakistan station chief who served at the agency for three decades, says claims that the Bush administrations so-called enhanced interrogation techniques saved American lives are likely false.
The retired senior CIA officer also says that the former administrations repeated assertions that attacks were foiled through torture are hurting US credibility abroad, endangering alliances and aiding the cause of would-be terrorists.
... pretty much anything that comes out of cheney mouth is a lie ...
Folks this is why I post reports on torture and 911 because they are so linked to one another ... check out this report ... don't know which thread to post it on so since I'm in this one ...
WATERBOARDING TIP OF THE ICEBERG / RE-OPEN 9/11 INVESTIGATION
As more White House condoned torture atrocities are slowly revealed ~ It seems more and more likely that Dick Cheney was complicit, or at the very least, took advantage of the 9/11 attacks and used it as an excuse to implement his grand neocon agenda ~ using these attacks as a justification for shredding the constitution, violating the Geneva Convention, blatantly violating human rights and covering his 9/11 involvement tracks by forcing confessions for the 9/11 commission through illegal torture of detainees.
U.S: Gitmo detainee dies of apparent suicide
Webmaster's Commentary:
And if you believe that I have some of Saddam's nookular bombs to sell you.
Cheney personally oversaw secret congressional briefings on torture: report
Cheneys advocacy of the use of waterboarding and warrantless wiretapping are certainly no secret, but his role in defending the program to lawmakers was undisclosed to the public until this time.
Rather: Former detainee says torture still going on at Gitmo
Lakhdar Boumediene has charged that he was interrogated for sixteen straight nights in 2003 and that he was force-fed through a nasal tube for over two years after he went on a hunger strike. He also described to Rather's interviewer how he was made to run with shackles on his legs until they were bloody in order to soften him up.
However, Boumediene's most controversial claim is that torture is still going on despite the change in administrations. "Nothing change in Guantanamo," he told the interviewer. "They torture me in the Obama time more than Bush.
Webmaster's Commentary:
If this is true, this country you and I believed in, the United States of America, exists is no more.
There can be no reason for torture which isn't a moral leap off a cliff, and into an ugly abyss from which we as a country will never be able to escape, unless there are trials, and persecutions of all from the top down who signed off on torture and made it happen.
The use of torture is a bloody gash straight into the heart of the American system of values, and is immoral, and illegal under both American and International law.
That I don't see more Americans absolutely infuriated to at least the point where they are contacting their congressional representatives to express their anger over this scares the stuffing out of me.
Why No Investigation?
Why are the Congressional leadership of both parties bizarrely silent now....
Because they were there then -- saw it -- all of it -- at a weirdly perverse, practically red-carpet, private snuff-film screening -- and they evidently went along with it.....
Obama Admin May Permit 9/11 Suspects To Plead Guilty In Capital Cases
A plan under consideration by the Obama administration would permit Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, detainees facing the death penalty to plead guilty without a full trial, it has been reported.
This option would principally be aimed at a group of detainees accused of planning the Sept. 11, 2001 terror attacks, five people who have already indicated they prefer this resolution of the case, The New York Times said in a story posted late Friday on its Web site.
One advantage of permitting guilty pleas by defendants in the Sept. 11 case would be that the government would not have to expose harsh interrogation techniques during full trials that would otherwise have to be carried out, the Times said.
Webmaster's Commentary:
There can be only one standard of legal justice in this country, and that has to be for everyone, from "the worst of the worst" (whatever that really means) to kind human beings arrested for demonstrating against these brutal wars without end which Obama seems to have embraced without hesitation.
And who are these 5 guys, who have "...already indicated they prefer this resolution of the case"? Names, Please!!
If these confessions were extracted under torture, in the normal course of American law, these cases would be thrown out of court fast enough to make your head spin.
The government doesn't want these guys to ever, ever have the chance to say to the American people - and the world - just how these confessions were obtained.
So the government is going to grant them their "....self-proclaimed desire for martyrdom."??
This government wants these 5 men dead just as fast as it can be arranged, period, end of discussion, so that the world will never know that these people confessed under torture to create a geopolitical means to an end.
U.S. Lawyers Agreed on Legality of Brutal Tactic
When Justice Department lawyers engaged in a sharp internal debate in 2005 over brutal interrogation techniques, even some who believed that using tough tactics was a serious mistake agreed on a basic point: the methods themselves were legal.
Webmaster's Commentary:
Congratulations, to all the knuckleheads in our so-called "Justice Department" who signed off on this, legitimizing the use of torture on US-held prisoners.
You were part of the process which, de facto, withdrew the US from our membership in the Geneva Convention, and pulled us out of any and every human rights to which we have ever been a signatory.
The use of torture is completely antithetical to any and every value expressed and enshrined in the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
You were part of the process that shoved this country off a cliff, in terms of the very moral standards we are supposed to uphold and defend as Americans, as an example to the rest of the world for how things could be.
Oh, and by the way: congratulations for giving any country holding any American military or civilian personnel carte blanche to do precisely what we have been doing at Gitmo and Abu Gharaib to our citizens. That has to make you feel really proud of yourselves!
EXCLUSIVE: Recently Released Gitmo Detainee Talks to ABC News
Asked if he thought he was tortured, Boumediene was unequivocal.
"I don't think. I'm sure," he said.
Webmaster's Commentary:
Kudos to ABC for having the gonads to report this.
Humanitarian Aid Worker: Torture Only Stopped When I Pretended I Was In Al Qaeda
More importantly, Boumediene confirms that telling the truth got him tortured more, while lying and saying what the interrogator wanted him to say got it to stop.
Webmaster's Commentary:
If torture really does work, then in the middle ages, women were able to turn themselves into animals and fly over the rooftops of their villages on broomsticks.
It's pretty obvious that torture is use to gain false confessions for political gain and agendas ...
Judge denies ACLU request to reveal US role in torture of American citizen
Hamdan told his brother that his captors routinely beat him and kept him in a freezing underground room during his months-long detention by state security forces, the ACLU said in an advisory. The torturers sometimes beat him in the location of his liver, knowing that he has a liver condition, and denied him his prescription liver medication throughout his detention. His torturers also beat him on the soles of his feet, deprived him of sleep by shining a bright spotlight on his face for hours at a time, and engaged in other abuses.
The torture was so severe that he often passed out from the pain, Hamdan told his brother. The agents also threatened to punish Hamdans wife and family if he did not confess to their allegations.
Webmaster's Commentary:
Memo to Judge Robertson; just in case he has been afflicted by a bad case of selective memory: torture is illegal under both US and international laws.
Torture, in case you have forgotten, sir, is completely antithetical to every value as stated in the the US Constitution and Bill of Rights
Torture is simply a means of obtaining a confession, not at all getting at the truth; we have known this from the time of the Catholic Inquisition
When American nationals are involved with torture, the use of that torture removes us from any and every human rights treaty to which this country has ever been a signatory, including the Geneva Convention. You might, sir, want to refresh your recollection of this document, particularly about the conditions under which enemy troops are to be treated.
And Judge Robertson,congratulations on what is certain to be one of the most logical outcomes of this ruling; if Americans torture, it gives any country holding American military or civilian personnel carte blanche to do the same to them.
American Detained, Tortured in UAE at U.S. Govt's Behest, ACLU Says
An American citizen has been detained and tortured in the United Arab Emirates at the behest of the U.S. government, according to an American Civil Liberties Union lawsuit filed in federal court.
Webmaster's Commentary:
The judge has already refused to force the US Government to release the relevant documents. The government is circling the wagons on this torture issue.
But here is the important point for all of you who thought the US Government was only torturing foreigners in far off lands.
The US Government tortured an American.
The US Government tortured an American.
The US Government tortured an American.
Graham, Lieberman threaten Senate shut down over abuse photo bill
In a press conference Tuesday afternoon, Sens. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) and Joe Lieberman (I-C.T.) threatened to shut down the Senate by blocking any further legislation unless their bill preventing the release of any further detainee abuse photos is passed.
Both men said they fear more disclosure would trigger heightened violence against Americans overseas.
Webmaster's Commentary:
... and calls for war crimes trials against the US Government.
CIA urges judge to keep detainee papers secret
CIA Director Leon Panetta told a federal judge Monday that releasing documents about the agency's terror interrogations would gravely damage national security. Webmaster's Commentary:
National Security my ASCII! The Us Government is staring war crimes trials in the face and they are going to stonewall all the evidence.
Is this what the Founding Fathers intended for the nation?
What would Thomas Jefferson say?
Former White House Lawyer Tells Senate that Indefinite Detention Without Trial Is Occurring In Afghanistan and Iraq, As Well As Guantanamo
The "debate on indefinite detention often wrongly focuses on Guantanamo Bay," arguing the practice is "considerably more widespread."
It is a practice Obama "will continue to pursue," in Afghanistan, Iraq, and at Guantanamo, and he noted they have already followed in the Bush administration's footsteps by defending it repeatedly in court, added Klingler.
The "wartime framework underlying [these tactics] have settled well within the mainstream of the American tradition," he said.
I'm so glad I did not vote for Obama ... he's definitely part of the DNC and they are no good for America. The elilte dims are just as corrupt and crooked as the repukes ...
Generals Petraeus and Odierno Testify, Release of Pix Will Kill Americans
Webmaster's Commentary:
You know, Bush, Cheney, Rice, the other war criminals...
The torture of detainees increases the danger of terrorist attacks in the western world and this might be exactly it´s purpose
The powers who control the Pentagon and the CIA believe that torture as well as indiscriminate killings (the collateral damage of remote controled air attacks) will create a violent backlash against America and the rest of the western world. And they actually would welcome this result. They hope that the fear, anger and suspicion this violence in turn will create in the western world against Muslims at home and abroad might then help them to raise public support for their war-agenda against the entire Islamic world and for the implementation of a police state at home.
So right on the police state at home ... they create a false flag attack and we become the criminals taking off our shoes at airports being spied on ... ect.
More sickening truths about torture soon to be revealed
A crucial CIA Inspector Generals report from May 2004 is expected to reveal some long-hidden truths about the Bush administrations use of torture.
According to MSNBCs Rachel Maddow, "This report is sort of the big kahuna in terms of what we have been waiting to see from the governments own files on torture. That report, which is long and has been described by people who have seen it as sickening, apparently stopped the torture program in its tracks."
Abuse Photos Part of Agreement on Military Spending
Congressional negotiators reached tentative agreement on Thursday on a $105.9 billion spending measure that would provide money for military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan through September but would drop a ban on the release of photographs showing abuse of foreign prisoners held by United States forces.
The deal was concluded after Rahm Emanuel, the White House chief of staff, went to the Capitol to assure Senate Democrats that President Obama would use all administrative and legal means to prevent the photos release.
Webmaster's Commentary:
"Don't worry. We won't let the slaves see anything that might upset their simple little brains!" -- Official White Horse Souse
ACLU hits Obama hard over torture controversies
The American Civil Liberties Union had strong words on Friday for the Obama administrations efforts to block the release of torture photos and its attempts to end a lawsuit over extraordinary rendition.
Webmaster's Commentary:
"We am above the law! Do you hear me? We AM!!!!" -- Official White Horse Souse
Judge: Ex-Bush lawyer can be sued over torture
A prisoner who says he was tortured while being held for nearly four years as a suspected terrorist can sue former Bush administration lawyer John Yoo for coming up with the legal theories that justified his alleged treatment, a federal judge in San Francisco ruled Friday.
Webmaster's Commentary:
I'll bet Obama steps in to block this one, too.
I'd say that's a pretty save bet
Will torture probe target Bush officials? Top Dem says stand by
Senator Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI), a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said on MSNBC that while the Senate has indeed been examining finer details of CIA torture authorized by the Bush administration, there are chain of command issues still to come.
So, I guess, stand by, he told Rachel Maddow on Thursday night.
Webmaster's Commentary:
Whitehouse is grandstanding.
He knows that because Democrats were ultimately just as complicit as Republicans when it came to signing off on torture, these charges will never see the light of day.
And ultimately - and ironically - it will be President Obama who will prevent any kinds of trials for torture from happening.
I totally agree on the grandstanding ... these assholes have no intention what so ever of doing any real investigation on 911 or torture because they would be cutting the throats of the elite ... and one elite live is worth a billion peon lives. The elite are simply above the law. It's only for the peons like you and me.
Court Rules In Favor Of Transparency In Guantánamo Cases
In an important ruling affecting the public's access to records regarding the cases of Guantánamo detainees, a federal court today denied a government motion to seal unclassified information related to those cases. Judge Thomas F. Hogan of the United States District Court for the District of Columbia, citing a "First Amendment and common law right to access" judicial records, ruled that the government cannot suppress unclassified documents and must seek court approval to seal specific information.
Well ... at least the ACLU is still for the people ... us commoners.
Waterboarding was well done, Cheney says
Here's another example of the war criminal cheney admitting he committed war crimes. Here's one from bush ...
Bush: I Personally Authorized Torture Of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed
BUSH: One such person who gave us information was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. And Im in the Oval Office and I am told that we have captured Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and the professionals believe he has information necessary to secure the country. So I ask what tools are available for us to find information from him and they gave me a list of tools, and I said are these tools deemed to be legal? And so we got legal opinions before any decision was made.
They all knew they were breaking the law ... this was to cover their ass ... the only reason they are not being prosecuted is elite members from both parties inside and outside the government would hang. And no elite will allow another elite to hang for the torture and death of a few million peons ... no way.
Supreme Court Justice Aids Torture Coverup
Supreme Court Justice Ruth Ginsburg approved an Obama administration request to have an additional 30 days to submit their appeal to justify suppressing the photos of US troops torturing detainees in Iraq and Afghanistan. The administration can now dally until July 9 before submitting their brief arguing their case.
Webmaster's Commentary:
An additional 30 days to "sanitize" the photos?
An additional 30 days for the world to imagine the worst?
An additional 30 days for the credibility of the United States Government to rot.
Obama's really blowing it on this issue ... no doubt ... as far as I'm concerned he must be brought up on charges for obstruction of justice ... along with his DOJ.
Here's an interesting comentary ... I'm sure some of you have heard this before ... but it still needs to be said again ... and again ... and again ... and again ...
FLASHBACK-War Is A Racket
USMC General and 2 time Congressional Medal of Honor winner Smedley Butler's views on war. A speech delivered in 1933.
Too many people just never learn ... quite sad really.
WAR is a racket. It always has been
It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.
A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.
... and from the bushwhacked favorite web site ...
Cheney: Execute Terrorists If Cuba Prison Must Close
Former Vice President Dick Cheney said Monday that the only alternative to holding some suspected terrorists indefinitely would be to execute them, arguing against the Obama administration's plans to close the Guantanamo detainee prison.
Webmaster's Commentary:
Here is the problem. Bush and Cheney are basing their entire justification of torture and imprisonment of these individuals on the assumption these are the "worst of the worst." Yet the claim is made that they cannot be tried through the normal justice system and sent to regular prisons.
It is clear that the real issue is that these people still stuck in Guantanamo may not be guilty of anything except exceedingly bad luck. They may be among those kidnapped at random and sold to the US forces for the reward money, then tortured into confessing something.
Once they are allowed to go free and tell their side of the story, and the rest of the world sees they are just regular folk caught up in the US torture machine, it will be yet another nail in the war crimes gallows for Bush and Cheney, and another body-check to US credibility.
So, Dick's solution is to silence these "live liabilities", permanently!
Maybe he'll just take them quail hunting.
Powell Told U.S. Tortured Detainees, But He Failed to Act
Notes of the meeting state that Powell indicated that he would have to talk to his colleagues [including Taft] on ICRCs issue of access to detainees in Afghanistan and elsewhere.
The next month, February 2004, the ICRC gave Bush administration officials a confidential report which found that U.S. occupation forces in Iraq often arrested Iraqis without good reason and subjected them to abuse and humiliation that sometimes was tantamount to torture in violation of the Geneva Conventions.
Webmaster's Commentary:
As a side note, the ICRC had full and unlimited access to the Nazi slave-labor camps during WW2.
Judge: Gitmo legal documents must be made public
A federal judge ordered the United States on Monday to publicly reveal unclassified versions of its allegations and evidence justifying the continued imprisonment of more than 100 detainees being held at Guantanamo Bay.
Webmaster's Commentary:
The reason for sealing unclassified reports is that they show that most of the people locked up on Guantanamo haven't actually done anything wrong to justify their treatment.
Former CIA station chief challenges claims that torture thwarted terror attacks
Milton Bearden, a former Central Intelligence Agency Pakistan station chief who served at the agency for three decades, says claims that the Bush administrations so-called enhanced interrogation techniques saved American lives are likely false.
The retired senior CIA officer also says that the former administrations repeated assertions that attacks were foiled through torture are hurting US credibility abroad, endangering alliances and aiding the cause of would-be terrorists.
... pretty much anything that comes out of cheney mouth is a lie ...
Folks this is why I post reports on torture and 911 because they are so linked to one another ... check out this report ... don't know which thread to post it on so since I'm in this one ...
WATERBOARDING TIP OF THE ICEBERG / RE-OPEN 9/11 INVESTIGATION
As more White House condoned torture atrocities are slowly revealed ~ It seems more and more likely that Dick Cheney was complicit, or at the very least, took advantage of the 9/11 attacks and used it as an excuse to implement his grand neocon agenda ~ using these attacks as a justification for shredding the constitution, violating the Geneva Convention, blatantly violating human rights and covering his 9/11 involvement tracks by forcing confessions for the 9/11 commission through illegal torture of detainees.
U.S: Gitmo detainee dies of apparent suicide
Webmaster's Commentary:
And if you believe that I have some of Saddam's nookular bombs to sell you.
Cheney personally oversaw secret congressional briefings on torture: report
Cheneys advocacy of the use of waterboarding and warrantless wiretapping are certainly no secret, but his role in defending the program to lawmakers was undisclosed to the public until this time.
Rather: Former detainee says torture still going on at Gitmo
Lakhdar Boumediene has charged that he was interrogated for sixteen straight nights in 2003 and that he was force-fed through a nasal tube for over two years after he went on a hunger strike. He also described to Rather's interviewer how he was made to run with shackles on his legs until they were bloody in order to soften him up.
However, Boumediene's most controversial claim is that torture is still going on despite the change in administrations. "Nothing change in Guantanamo," he told the interviewer. "They torture me in the Obama time more than Bush.
Webmaster's Commentary:
If this is true, this country you and I believed in, the United States of America, exists is no more.
There can be no reason for torture which isn't a moral leap off a cliff, and into an ugly abyss from which we as a country will never be able to escape, unless there are trials, and persecutions of all from the top down who signed off on torture and made it happen.
The use of torture is a bloody gash straight into the heart of the American system of values, and is immoral, and illegal under both American and International law.
That I don't see more Americans absolutely infuriated to at least the point where they are contacting their congressional representatives to express their anger over this scares the stuffing out of me.
Why No Investigation?
Why are the Congressional leadership of both parties bizarrely silent now....
Because they were there then -- saw it -- all of it -- at a weirdly perverse, practically red-carpet, private snuff-film screening -- and they evidently went along with it.....
Obama Admin May Permit 9/11 Suspects To Plead Guilty In Capital Cases
A plan under consideration by the Obama administration would permit Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, detainees facing the death penalty to plead guilty without a full trial, it has been reported.
This option would principally be aimed at a group of detainees accused of planning the Sept. 11, 2001 terror attacks, five people who have already indicated they prefer this resolution of the case, The New York Times said in a story posted late Friday on its Web site.
One advantage of permitting guilty pleas by defendants in the Sept. 11 case would be that the government would not have to expose harsh interrogation techniques during full trials that would otherwise have to be carried out, the Times said.
Webmaster's Commentary:
There can be only one standard of legal justice in this country, and that has to be for everyone, from "the worst of the worst" (whatever that really means) to kind human beings arrested for demonstrating against these brutal wars without end which Obama seems to have embraced without hesitation.
And who are these 5 guys, who have "...already indicated they prefer this resolution of the case"? Names, Please!!
If these confessions were extracted under torture, in the normal course of American law, these cases would be thrown out of court fast enough to make your head spin.
The government doesn't want these guys to ever, ever have the chance to say to the American people - and the world - just how these confessions were obtained.
So the government is going to grant them their "....self-proclaimed desire for martyrdom."??
This government wants these 5 men dead just as fast as it can be arranged, period, end of discussion, so that the world will never know that these people confessed under torture to create a geopolitical means to an end.
U.S. Lawyers Agreed on Legality of Brutal Tactic
When Justice Department lawyers engaged in a sharp internal debate in 2005 over brutal interrogation techniques, even some who believed that using tough tactics was a serious mistake agreed on a basic point: the methods themselves were legal.
Webmaster's Commentary:
Congratulations, to all the knuckleheads in our so-called "Justice Department" who signed off on this, legitimizing the use of torture on US-held prisoners.
You were part of the process which, de facto, withdrew the US from our membership in the Geneva Convention, and pulled us out of any and every human rights to which we have ever been a signatory.
The use of torture is completely antithetical to any and every value expressed and enshrined in the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
You were part of the process that shoved this country off a cliff, in terms of the very moral standards we are supposed to uphold and defend as Americans, as an example to the rest of the world for how things could be.
Oh, and by the way: congratulations for giving any country holding any American military or civilian personnel carte blanche to do precisely what we have been doing at Gitmo and Abu Gharaib to our citizens. That has to make you feel really proud of yourselves!
EXCLUSIVE: Recently Released Gitmo Detainee Talks to ABC News
Asked if he thought he was tortured, Boumediene was unequivocal.
"I don't think. I'm sure," he said.
Webmaster's Commentary:
Kudos to ABC for having the gonads to report this.
Humanitarian Aid Worker: Torture Only Stopped When I Pretended I Was In Al Qaeda
More importantly, Boumediene confirms that telling the truth got him tortured more, while lying and saying what the interrogator wanted him to say got it to stop.
Webmaster's Commentary:
If torture really does work, then in the middle ages, women were able to turn themselves into animals and fly over the rooftops of their villages on broomsticks.
It's pretty obvious that torture is use to gain false confessions for political gain and agendas ...
Judge denies ACLU request to reveal US role in torture of American citizen
Hamdan told his brother that his captors routinely beat him and kept him in a freezing underground room during his months-long detention by state security forces, the ACLU said in an advisory. The torturers sometimes beat him in the location of his liver, knowing that he has a liver condition, and denied him his prescription liver medication throughout his detention. His torturers also beat him on the soles of his feet, deprived him of sleep by shining a bright spotlight on his face for hours at a time, and engaged in other abuses.
The torture was so severe that he often passed out from the pain, Hamdan told his brother. The agents also threatened to punish Hamdans wife and family if he did not confess to their allegations.
Webmaster's Commentary:
Memo to Judge Robertson; just in case he has been afflicted by a bad case of selective memory: torture is illegal under both US and international laws.
Torture, in case you have forgotten, sir, is completely antithetical to every value as stated in the the US Constitution and Bill of Rights
Torture is simply a means of obtaining a confession, not at all getting at the truth; we have known this from the time of the Catholic Inquisition
When American nationals are involved with torture, the use of that torture removes us from any and every human rights treaty to which this country has ever been a signatory, including the Geneva Convention. You might, sir, want to refresh your recollection of this document, particularly about the conditions under which enemy troops are to be treated.
And Judge Robertson,congratulations on what is certain to be one of the most logical outcomes of this ruling; if Americans torture, it gives any country holding American military or civilian personnel carte blanche to do the same to them.
American Detained, Tortured in UAE at U.S. Govt's Behest, ACLU Says
An American citizen has been detained and tortured in the United Arab Emirates at the behest of the U.S. government, according to an American Civil Liberties Union lawsuit filed in federal court.
Webmaster's Commentary:
The judge has already refused to force the US Government to release the relevant documents. The government is circling the wagons on this torture issue.
But here is the important point for all of you who thought the US Government was only torturing foreigners in far off lands.
The US Government tortured an American.
The US Government tortured an American.
The US Government tortured an American.
Graham, Lieberman threaten Senate shut down over abuse photo bill
In a press conference Tuesday afternoon, Sens. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) and Joe Lieberman (I-C.T.) threatened to shut down the Senate by blocking any further legislation unless their bill preventing the release of any further detainee abuse photos is passed.
Both men said they fear more disclosure would trigger heightened violence against Americans overseas.
Webmaster's Commentary:
... and calls for war crimes trials against the US Government.
CIA urges judge to keep detainee papers secret
CIA Director Leon Panetta told a federal judge Monday that releasing documents about the agency's terror interrogations would gravely damage national security. Webmaster's Commentary:
National Security my ASCII! The Us Government is staring war crimes trials in the face and they are going to stonewall all the evidence.
Is this what the Founding Fathers intended for the nation?
What would Thomas Jefferson say?
Former White House Lawyer Tells Senate that Indefinite Detention Without Trial Is Occurring In Afghanistan and Iraq, As Well As Guantanamo
The "debate on indefinite detention often wrongly focuses on Guantanamo Bay," arguing the practice is "considerably more widespread."
It is a practice Obama "will continue to pursue," in Afghanistan, Iraq, and at Guantanamo, and he noted they have already followed in the Bush administration's footsteps by defending it repeatedly in court, added Klingler.
The "wartime framework underlying [these tactics] have settled well within the mainstream of the American tradition," he said.
I'm so glad I did not vote for Obama ... he's definitely part of the DNC and they are no good for America. The elilte dims are just as corrupt and crooked as the repukes ...
Generals Petraeus and Odierno Testify, Release of Pix Will Kill Americans
Webmaster's Commentary:
You know, Bush, Cheney, Rice, the other war criminals...
The torture of detainees increases the danger of terrorist attacks in the western world and this might be exactly it´s purpose
The powers who control the Pentagon and the CIA believe that torture as well as indiscriminate killings (the collateral damage of remote controled air attacks) will create a violent backlash against America and the rest of the western world. And they actually would welcome this result. They hope that the fear, anger and suspicion this violence in turn will create in the western world against Muslims at home and abroad might then help them to raise public support for their war-agenda against the entire Islamic world and for the implementation of a police state at home.
So right on the police state at home ... they create a false flag attack and we become the criminals taking off our shoes at airports being spied on ... ect.
More sickening truths about torture soon to be revealed
A crucial CIA Inspector Generals report from May 2004 is expected to reveal some long-hidden truths about the Bush administrations use of torture.
According to MSNBCs Rachel Maddow, "This report is sort of the big kahuna in terms of what we have been waiting to see from the governments own files on torture. That report, which is long and has been described by people who have seen it as sickening, apparently stopped the torture program in its tracks."
Abuse Photos Part of Agreement on Military Spending
Congressional negotiators reached tentative agreement on Thursday on a $105.9 billion spending measure that would provide money for military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan through September but would drop a ban on the release of photographs showing abuse of foreign prisoners held by United States forces.
The deal was concluded after Rahm Emanuel, the White House chief of staff, went to the Capitol to assure Senate Democrats that President Obama would use all administrative and legal means to prevent the photos release.
Webmaster's Commentary:
"Don't worry. We won't let the slaves see anything that might upset their simple little brains!" -- Official White Horse Souse
ACLU hits Obama hard over torture controversies
The American Civil Liberties Union had strong words on Friday for the Obama administrations efforts to block the release of torture photos and its attempts to end a lawsuit over extraordinary rendition.
Webmaster's Commentary:
"We am above the law! Do you hear me? We AM!!!!" -- Official White Horse Souse
Judge: Ex-Bush lawyer can be sued over torture
A prisoner who says he was tortured while being held for nearly four years as a suspected terrorist can sue former Bush administration lawyer John Yoo for coming up with the legal theories that justified his alleged treatment, a federal judge in San Francisco ruled Friday.
Webmaster's Commentary:
I'll bet Obama steps in to block this one, too.
I'd say that's a pretty save bet
Will torture probe target Bush officials? Top Dem says stand by
Senator Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI), a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said on MSNBC that while the Senate has indeed been examining finer details of CIA torture authorized by the Bush administration, there are chain of command issues still to come.
So, I guess, stand by, he told Rachel Maddow on Thursday night.
Webmaster's Commentary:
Whitehouse is grandstanding.
He knows that because Democrats were ultimately just as complicit as Republicans when it came to signing off on torture, these charges will never see the light of day.
And ultimately - and ironically - it will be President Obama who will prevent any kinds of trials for torture from happening.
I totally agree on the grandstanding ... these assholes have no intention what so ever of doing any real investigation on 911 or torture because they would be cutting the throats of the elite ... and one elite live is worth a billion peon lives. The elite are simply above the law. It's only for the peons like you and me.
GrowRebel
Well-Known Member
Fein: Obama 'shuts his eyes' to 'open confessions' of Bush-era war crimes
Speaking at the National Press Club on Monday, former Reagan administration Associate Attorney General Bruce Fein lamented President Barack Obama's decision to shut his eyes to open confessions of war crimes by members of the prior administration.
"It's at the highest levels that the rule of law finds its greatest majesty," he told reporters. "That's why the United States was so idolized after Nixon left. We said that the most powerful man in the world is subject to the law. He cannot defy it."
Obama's Torture Hypocrisy
President Barack Obama just announced that the U.S. government is determined to prosecute officials who are responsible for torturing prisoners. But there's a catch. Obama's pledge only applies to torturers working for other governments.
To mark the 25th anniversary of the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, Obama quietly released a statement on Friday that called on the international community "to join with the United States and the community of law-abiding nations in prohibiting, investigating, and prosecuting all acts of torture and in undertaking to prevent other cruel and unusual punishment."
Wow ... obama is really a hypocrite. He's just as bad ... not worst because he know damn well he is breaking the law.
This is from the New Yorker ...
The Secret History
No criminal charges have ever been brought against any C.I.A. officer involved in the torture program, despite the fact that at least three prisoners interrogated by agency personnel died as the result of mistreatment. In the first case, an unnamed detainee under C.I.A. supervision in Afghanistan froze to death after having been chained, naked, to a concrete floor overnight. The body was buried in an unmarked grave. In the second case, an Iraqi prisoner named Manadel al-Jamadi died on November 4, 2003, while being interrogated by the C.I.A. at Abu Ghraib prison, outside Baghdad. A forensic examiner found that he had essentially been crucified; he died from asphyxiation after having been hung by his arms, in a hood, and suffering broken ribs.
Obama is protecting murderers. I'm willing to bet there are quiet a few that have been killed due to US torture.
Obama's Ludicrous Declaration on Torture Day
Spending U.S. tax dollars for private groups aiding torture victims supposedly compensates for Obama's coverup of the evidence of U.S. government torture and his de facto pardon of all the torturers and torture policymakers.
Webmaster's Commentary:
This statement doesn't and won't let Obama off the hook for covering up the war crimes of his predecessor; We the People cannot - and will not - allow that to happen.
PHOTO ESSAY ~~ NEW YORKERS AGAINST TORTURE
You see ... there are decent people in this world that do know the difference between right and wrong.
This is from the ACLU blog ...
Accountability: Necessary Ingredient for Preventing Torture
The decision to introduce torture as part the United States counterterrorism efforts several years ago has engendered shock, anger and profound disappointment both in the U.S. and around the world.
Based on our experience working with torture survivors and understanding the systems in which they have been abused, we know that:
1. Torture does not yield reliable information.
2. Torture has never been confined to narrow conditions
3. Psychological torture is damaging
Now this is very disturbing news ... I'm not happy with this at all and it show exactly why we must hold these war criminals accountable ... when we don't the continue to commit crimes.
White House Drafts Executive Order to Allow Indefinite Detention of Terror Suspects
The Obama administration, fearing a battle with Congress that could stall plans to close Guantanamo, has drafted an executive order that would reassert presidential authority to incarcerate terrorism suspects indefinitely, according to three senior government officials with knowledge of White House deliberations.
Such an order would embrace claims by former president George W. Bush that certain people can be detained without trial for long periods under the laws of war. Obama advisers are concerned that bypassing Congress could place the president on weaker footing before the courts and anger key supporters, the officials said.
obama is nothing more than a figure head doing the bidding of the elite ... they don't want these people release so they can report the torture the US did to them ... which will increase the pressure to charge them with war crimes. Here's another report ...
For tortured detainees, U.S. considered life sentences on boats
For tortured detainees, U.S. considered life sentences on boats
Webmaster's Commentary:
Apparently, along with "enhanced" interrogation (waterboarding), there were two other classifications, "Robust" and "Special." These supposedly employed even more severe techniques of which the American people are still unaware. But clues to the meanings of "Robust" and "special" lie in reports of released prisoners whose testicles have been completely destroyed, as well as Binjam Mohammed, whose genitals were repeatedly sliced with a knife over a period of many weeks.
The plan to keep the rest of the detainees on boats is not a plan to keep the prisoner but to keep them unseen by the public and the press. Clearly they bear scars which the US Government wants hidden.
This report is for those of you that have this misguided notion about the US not torturing their own citizens ... they do ...
The Right to Torture Americans
Conservatives are protesting a federal judges ruling that torture victim Jose Padillas civil lawsuit against former Justice Department attorney John Yoo be permitted to continue. The conservatives feel that Yoo, who authored some of the infamous torture memos for the Bush White House, should be immune from lawsuits from Americans who were tortured as a natural consequence of such memos.
Terrorism and all the other bullshit the government hands us is nothing more than vehicles to keep "we the people" in line ... who has to take their shoes off at airports? Who do they want to have these national id cards? ... who is effected most by the patriot act? Common folks are the terrorist and the elite are going to do all they can to keep us in line.
Now here is some good news ... I really hope this will put the pressure on, but we need to do something on this end as well.
Lawyer: Spanish prosecution of Bush lawyers will proceed
The Spanish lawyer working to indict six former Bush administration attorneys for their roles in the USs torture program says the case will go ahead in Spanish courts.
Bagram, the new Guantánamo
TheBBC's revelations about prisoner abuse at the US prison at Bagram airforce base in Afghanistan are the latest in a long line of revelations about abuse at US prisons around the world.
President Obama told us that this sort of thing has stopped. Well, it hasn't.
Sadly, the Obama administration is up to the former administration's familiar tricks, attempting to block the world from the truth.
Here's another report on the same story.
Bagram: Is it Obamas new Guantanamo? (BBC reports it sure looks like it is)
The BBC interviewed 27 people who were held at the Bagram military base between 2002 and 2008. None of them was ever charged or tried.
The former inmates made repeated allegations of ill-treatment, saying they were subjected to physical abuse, excessive temperatures and loud noise, forced into stress positions and ordered to undress in front of female soldiers. Four detainees claim they were threatened with death at gunpoint.
Looks like obama is as dirty as bush. Now he too must be charged with war crimes.
This is why obama wants to hold these people indefinitely ...
Afghanistan: Ex-detainees allege abuse at US base
Prisoners at the US military base at Bagram outside the Afghan capital Kabul were beaten, deprived of sleep and threatened with dogs there, former detainees have told the BBC. The broadcaster interviewed separately 27 former inmates of Bagram around the country over a period of two months and asked them the same questions. Only two said they had been treated well.
The BBC findings were shown to the Pentagon, which has denied the charges and insists that all inmates in the facility are treated humanely.
Of course they are going to denied the charges ... they are known liars.
Check out the government hypocrisy ...
U.S. Govt. Threatens to Prosecute Waterboarding
We've been lobbying the Department of Justice all these months without realizing that the key to justice lay in the Department of the Interior, and specifically in the National Park Service, which has told activist Steve Lane he will be prosecuted if he attempts to demonstrate waterboarding at Thursday's anti-torture rally in Washington, D.C. The permit for the rally reads "Waterboarding exhibit will not be allowed for safety reasons."
Obama-backed Bill to Ban Release of Bush-Era Torture Photos Passes Senate
In a move that didnt receive much attention, the Senate on Wednesday passed by unanimous consent the Graham-Lieberman bill, which seeks to make it illegal to make public any images of US prisoner abuse and torture from the Bush era. Specifically, the bill bans the release of images taken between September 11, 2001 and January 22, 2009 relating to the treatment of individuals engaged, captured, or detained after September 11, 2001, by the Armed Forces of the United States in operations outside of the United States. The Obama White House supports this outrageous legislation whose sole purpose is to make it illegal to reveal the truth about US torture.
No Proof Detainee Photos Led to Military Deaths
The U.S. governments case for embargoing the release of photographs said to depict abuse of detainees rests largely on a questionable claim that disclosure of the images would endanger U.S. troops.
Webmaster's Commentary:
The reality is that the release of photographs brings the leaders of this nation that much closer to war crimes trials, and destroys the legitimacy of the entire government itself.
ACLU: Heavily redacted CIA docs render more torture evidence
In response to a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union, the CIA released a series of heavily redacted documents which detail new allegations of torture made by terror war prisoners.
The documents posted online by the ACLU have red highlights to mark what was unredacted from the previously released version.
The evidence is quite clear that the US is committing war crimes.
This is another reminder for the thick headed ...
No Big Surprise: Torture Yields Bogus Info.. Video
New declassified information reveals that the CIAs torture programs produced false information. September 11th mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed admitted he made up stories under torture, refuting a long-standing and still-used Bush administration argument that harsh interrogation yields highly valuable information. Rachel Maddow provides the details.
Editorial
Obama must prosecute Bush-era torture enablers
With Dick Cheney and the infamous torture memos making headlines, President Obama and our nation face a choice. Should they prosecute or protect those responsible for the torture of detainees in secret CIA detention centers? If our leaders wish to steer our country back to the right side of the law, they must act immediately and unequivocally to prosecute.
Webmaster's Commentary:
There is zero appetite for this in Washington, and a real prosecution, which must logically start from Bush on down, is as likely to happen as the likelihood of pigs flying.
Unfortunately, by not prosecuting the torture enablers, the moral landscape of this country will have darkened immeasurably; if we are not going to prosecute the torture enablers,who used coerced confessions toward obtaining specific geopolitical outcomes, can we ever claim again to be a moral people?
Nope ... but some ... who turn their back to the crimes being committed ... will.
Speaking at the National Press Club on Monday, former Reagan administration Associate Attorney General Bruce Fein lamented President Barack Obama's decision to shut his eyes to open confessions of war crimes by members of the prior administration.
"It's at the highest levels that the rule of law finds its greatest majesty," he told reporters. "That's why the United States was so idolized after Nixon left. We said that the most powerful man in the world is subject to the law. He cannot defy it."
Obama's Torture Hypocrisy
President Barack Obama just announced that the U.S. government is determined to prosecute officials who are responsible for torturing prisoners. But there's a catch. Obama's pledge only applies to torturers working for other governments.
To mark the 25th anniversary of the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, Obama quietly released a statement on Friday that called on the international community "to join with the United States and the community of law-abiding nations in prohibiting, investigating, and prosecuting all acts of torture and in undertaking to prevent other cruel and unusual punishment."
Wow ... obama is really a hypocrite. He's just as bad ... not worst because he know damn well he is breaking the law.
This is from the New Yorker ...
The Secret History
No criminal charges have ever been brought against any C.I.A. officer involved in the torture program, despite the fact that at least three prisoners interrogated by agency personnel died as the result of mistreatment. In the first case, an unnamed detainee under C.I.A. supervision in Afghanistan froze to death after having been chained, naked, to a concrete floor overnight. The body was buried in an unmarked grave. In the second case, an Iraqi prisoner named Manadel al-Jamadi died on November 4, 2003, while being interrogated by the C.I.A. at Abu Ghraib prison, outside Baghdad. A forensic examiner found that he had essentially been crucified; he died from asphyxiation after having been hung by his arms, in a hood, and suffering broken ribs.
Obama is protecting murderers. I'm willing to bet there are quiet a few that have been killed due to US torture.
Obama's Ludicrous Declaration on Torture Day
Spending U.S. tax dollars for private groups aiding torture victims supposedly compensates for Obama's coverup of the evidence of U.S. government torture and his de facto pardon of all the torturers and torture policymakers.
Webmaster's Commentary:
This statement doesn't and won't let Obama off the hook for covering up the war crimes of his predecessor; We the People cannot - and will not - allow that to happen.
PHOTO ESSAY ~~ NEW YORKERS AGAINST TORTURE
You see ... there are decent people in this world that do know the difference between right and wrong.
This is from the ACLU blog ...
Accountability: Necessary Ingredient for Preventing Torture
The decision to introduce torture as part the United States counterterrorism efforts several years ago has engendered shock, anger and profound disappointment both in the U.S. and around the world.
Based on our experience working with torture survivors and understanding the systems in which they have been abused, we know that:
1. Torture does not yield reliable information.
2. Torture has never been confined to narrow conditions
3. Psychological torture is damaging
Now this is very disturbing news ... I'm not happy with this at all and it show exactly why we must hold these war criminals accountable ... when we don't the continue to commit crimes.
White House Drafts Executive Order to Allow Indefinite Detention of Terror Suspects
The Obama administration, fearing a battle with Congress that could stall plans to close Guantanamo, has drafted an executive order that would reassert presidential authority to incarcerate terrorism suspects indefinitely, according to three senior government officials with knowledge of White House deliberations.
Such an order would embrace claims by former president George W. Bush that certain people can be detained without trial for long periods under the laws of war. Obama advisers are concerned that bypassing Congress could place the president on weaker footing before the courts and anger key supporters, the officials said.
obama is nothing more than a figure head doing the bidding of the elite ... they don't want these people release so they can report the torture the US did to them ... which will increase the pressure to charge them with war crimes. Here's another report ...
For tortured detainees, U.S. considered life sentences on boats
For tortured detainees, U.S. considered life sentences on boats
Webmaster's Commentary:
Apparently, along with "enhanced" interrogation (waterboarding), there were two other classifications, "Robust" and "Special." These supposedly employed even more severe techniques of which the American people are still unaware. But clues to the meanings of "Robust" and "special" lie in reports of released prisoners whose testicles have been completely destroyed, as well as Binjam Mohammed, whose genitals were repeatedly sliced with a knife over a period of many weeks.
The plan to keep the rest of the detainees on boats is not a plan to keep the prisoner but to keep them unseen by the public and the press. Clearly they bear scars which the US Government wants hidden.
This report is for those of you that have this misguided notion about the US not torturing their own citizens ... they do ...
The Right to Torture Americans
Conservatives are protesting a federal judges ruling that torture victim Jose Padillas civil lawsuit against former Justice Department attorney John Yoo be permitted to continue. The conservatives feel that Yoo, who authored some of the infamous torture memos for the Bush White House, should be immune from lawsuits from Americans who were tortured as a natural consequence of such memos.
Terrorism and all the other bullshit the government hands us is nothing more than vehicles to keep "we the people" in line ... who has to take their shoes off at airports? Who do they want to have these national id cards? ... who is effected most by the patriot act? Common folks are the terrorist and the elite are going to do all they can to keep us in line.
Now here is some good news ... I really hope this will put the pressure on, but we need to do something on this end as well.
Lawyer: Spanish prosecution of Bush lawyers will proceed
The Spanish lawyer working to indict six former Bush administration attorneys for their roles in the USs torture program says the case will go ahead in Spanish courts.
Bagram, the new Guantánamo
TheBBC's revelations about prisoner abuse at the US prison at Bagram airforce base in Afghanistan are the latest in a long line of revelations about abuse at US prisons around the world.
President Obama told us that this sort of thing has stopped. Well, it hasn't.
Sadly, the Obama administration is up to the former administration's familiar tricks, attempting to block the world from the truth.
Here's another report on the same story.
Bagram: Is it Obamas new Guantanamo? (BBC reports it sure looks like it is)
The BBC interviewed 27 people who were held at the Bagram military base between 2002 and 2008. None of them was ever charged or tried.
The former inmates made repeated allegations of ill-treatment, saying they were subjected to physical abuse, excessive temperatures and loud noise, forced into stress positions and ordered to undress in front of female soldiers. Four detainees claim they were threatened with death at gunpoint.
Looks like obama is as dirty as bush. Now he too must be charged with war crimes.
This is why obama wants to hold these people indefinitely ...
Afghanistan: Ex-detainees allege abuse at US base
Prisoners at the US military base at Bagram outside the Afghan capital Kabul were beaten, deprived of sleep and threatened with dogs there, former detainees have told the BBC. The broadcaster interviewed separately 27 former inmates of Bagram around the country over a period of two months and asked them the same questions. Only two said they had been treated well.
The BBC findings were shown to the Pentagon, which has denied the charges and insists that all inmates in the facility are treated humanely.
Of course they are going to denied the charges ... they are known liars.
Check out the government hypocrisy ...
U.S. Govt. Threatens to Prosecute Waterboarding
We've been lobbying the Department of Justice all these months without realizing that the key to justice lay in the Department of the Interior, and specifically in the National Park Service, which has told activist Steve Lane he will be prosecuted if he attempts to demonstrate waterboarding at Thursday's anti-torture rally in Washington, D.C. The permit for the rally reads "Waterboarding exhibit will not be allowed for safety reasons."
Obama-backed Bill to Ban Release of Bush-Era Torture Photos Passes Senate
In a move that didnt receive much attention, the Senate on Wednesday passed by unanimous consent the Graham-Lieberman bill, which seeks to make it illegal to make public any images of US prisoner abuse and torture from the Bush era. Specifically, the bill bans the release of images taken between September 11, 2001 and January 22, 2009 relating to the treatment of individuals engaged, captured, or detained after September 11, 2001, by the Armed Forces of the United States in operations outside of the United States. The Obama White House supports this outrageous legislation whose sole purpose is to make it illegal to reveal the truth about US torture.
No Proof Detainee Photos Led to Military Deaths
The U.S. governments case for embargoing the release of photographs said to depict abuse of detainees rests largely on a questionable claim that disclosure of the images would endanger U.S. troops.
Webmaster's Commentary:
The reality is that the release of photographs brings the leaders of this nation that much closer to war crimes trials, and destroys the legitimacy of the entire government itself.
ACLU: Heavily redacted CIA docs render more torture evidence
In response to a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union, the CIA released a series of heavily redacted documents which detail new allegations of torture made by terror war prisoners.
The documents posted online by the ACLU have red highlights to mark what was unredacted from the previously released version.
The evidence is quite clear that the US is committing war crimes.
This is another reminder for the thick headed ...
No Big Surprise: Torture Yields Bogus Info.. Video
New declassified information reveals that the CIAs torture programs produced false information. September 11th mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed admitted he made up stories under torture, refuting a long-standing and still-used Bush administration argument that harsh interrogation yields highly valuable information. Rachel Maddow provides the details.
Editorial
Obama must prosecute Bush-era torture enablers
With Dick Cheney and the infamous torture memos making headlines, President Obama and our nation face a choice. Should they prosecute or protect those responsible for the torture of detainees in secret CIA detention centers? If our leaders wish to steer our country back to the right side of the law, they must act immediately and unequivocally to prosecute.
Webmaster's Commentary:
There is zero appetite for this in Washington, and a real prosecution, which must logically start from Bush on down, is as likely to happen as the likelihood of pigs flying.
Unfortunately, by not prosecuting the torture enablers, the moral landscape of this country will have darkened immeasurably; if we are not going to prosecute the torture enablers,who used coerced confessions toward obtaining specific geopolitical outcomes, can we ever claim again to be a moral people?
Nope ... but some ... who turn their back to the crimes being committed ... will.
Antidisestablishmentarian
Well-Known Member
Man, the Geneva convention applies only to UNIFORMED combatants at the time these things took place. At the time, these terrorists could have been shot on site, and should have.
It would have ended a lot of this bullshit.
No reason to really keep posting this shit anyway.
You have your opinion, I have mine, and you sure as shit and going to change it.
I guess keep preaching to the choir, they really are the only ones listening.
It would have ended a lot of this bullshit.
No reason to really keep posting this shit anyway.
You have your opinion, I have mine, and you sure as shit and going to change it.
I guess keep preaching to the choir, they really are the only ones listening.
GrowRebel
Well-Known Member
Been there done this ... it's already been clearly established that the GC applies to any combatant. You are merely parroting a false neocon talking point nothing more.
There's plenty of reason to "keep posting this shit" it's not really my problem if you are too stupid to see why.
I never try to change the mind of
people ... I merely show the folks at home their degree of stupidity.Got no problem with that either.