Why A Light Emitting Diode Is The future

thatguy69

Member
The light emitting diode is a low heat light source that can emit light is specific nanometers (NM). It is sold as for example 600nm or 830nm instead of kelvins (K) and has a narrow stand in the spectrum for example 600nm has a low of 570nm and the high of 630nm and 800nm and 860nm being the high. It allows you to zero in on the light that is needed for a specific cause. For plants that’s 380 NM – 520 NM for vegetative and 610 NM – 720 NM for flowering. That and the fact that a led can now be made to 216 lumens (LM) / watt (W) in a warm spectrum from what I gather from this link http://www.epistar.com.tw/_english/04_pr/02_detail.php?SID=30 . I say that with enough of these new led’s to make 1000w light that it will out perform an hps. It is cooler and has more lumens. That and the fact that you can place each array spaced out in a dome shape around your plants or even right on the sides to make the most of your light allowing the plant to absorb as much as possible.

With high-pressure sodium, metal halide, ceramic metal halide, compact florescent lights, and t5’s I read of the different light spectrums in kelvins. The warm light spectrum used for flowering growth and the cool light spectrum for vegetative growth. In this link you can view the chart https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9582-marijuana-light-spectrum.html you will notice a number on every bulb you buy in the stores. With the led you will notice the NM like on the chart in this page http://www.stealthgrow.com/facts.htm#spectrum and you can see how both compare to the colors of the light spectrum.

The important thing on the second chart is that it shows you the useable light spectrums photosynthesis. That is the color wavelengths of ordinary light that the plants use for the use of making the plants food. There is also a hps compared to the photosynthesis along with the sites own led array. You will notice the hps dose not mimic the plants needs. I think hps is so popular because it is close enough and it produces a high amount of lumens. Lumens are the amount of light emitted from the source. So if you had equal watts and multiple bulbs the one with the higher lumens will shine brighter. The ones that are low kelvins or high nanometers will have a yellowish tinge to the light and vice versa. With hps as the leading flowering bulb in shocked to know that it is not in the correct light spectrum that has been scientifically proven for plants. That brings the idea of the ceramic metal halide is better because it offers light in a more wide light spectrum shown in a chart close to the bottom of the page http://advancedtechlighting.com/cdmed18.htm but if you look you will notice that it is lower in lumens then the hps. Also there is the face that ultraviolet lighting has been proven in multiple studies that it is beneficial to plants (better THC from it) witch the ceramic metal halide has. That being said a led light has none of that and I would recommend supplementing it in.
 

thatguy69

Member
the first link shows you the world record for leds right now

this shouls be a sticky about the good led arrays that are selling for the diy people. i actually found this by looking at another thread about a diy array and it looked good. i looked into the company and im currantly trying to find the price for the most eficient led diode they carry. at the price of leds now i would hands down buy the leds and make my own llight. i think more people would go for leds if you can post the sites you ordered from and how you wired them. it also offers a stealth aspect as your not buying anyting directly related to growing indoors.
 

patrikantonius

Active Member
Keep in mind that those luminosity records are done at ultra low currents (most of the time less than 100mA) and in very short bursts at low temperature; they measure efficiency at a die temperature of 25°C which never happens in real life applications. In real life, you want to drive your LEDs at 700mA -you lose basically 30% efficiency- and the die is usually around 85°C -another 20% lost-.
You end up with efficiency much closer to ~120 lm/W if you go with the best on the market (Cree XP-G2).

If you do the parallel with HID, a 600w HPS light outputs up to 150 lm/W; that's a lot better, and it does not drop when the temperature increases. Moreover, the light is spread on a much better spectrum, much closer to the absorption rates of the plants.

In my opinion white LEDs are not worth it right now, maybe in 5 years when they'll reach 200lm/W in real life applications, but now, they are just not as good as HIDs.
 

bigv1976

Well-Known Member
I am still amazed at all the attention LEDs are getting. I just dont see why people insist on spending oodles of money to get inferior results. It doesnt make any sense.
 

patrikantonius

Active Member
I was specifically talking about white LEDs.
LED lights using quality red and blue diodes clearly outperform HPS. The only big downside is the price, which make them not very interesting for large scale grows.
 

thatguy69

Member
i mentioned using the led from the specific wavelength. Im not sure if it would show as tinged as the grow panels i guess so but Im sure as long as you have it in the specific nanometer range the plants will be loving it. yes i agree the price is 2 much id much rather do a 70w hps with a couple cool white cfls for my needs because i don't have to room to grow but after my little research i did in the past two days i have to say that leds CAN shine the plant specific wave lengths and i don't know how long hps has been around but i think the should shift the spectrum of them a little bit over from the chart i found. then again i have only put 2 days research into it and the led grow light site i got the chart from may be putting false info out there to get more buyers. If i won the lottery i would do i side by side grow all dialled in only different factor is the lights the best hps bulb vs 610 nanometer to 720 nanometer with enough lumens to equal the hps not caring for the extra watts. And what that would do is it would isolate the main question i have witch is if you use the plant specific leds equaling the same lumens as hps what would yield more. also you would have to match the uv light from the hps also. that would be a real study about hids and i have yet to see a proper study be done. if a rich reputable grower on this site did that study i would love to follow it. i do not know if you ever seen the show myth busters on tv buy i love it and its basically science. identical situations and change one variable at a time. track your yields and do multiple grows to get a average. then you try dialling it in. people have done it with nutes, soil recipes (subcool), and other things so why not this if you got the money. i think in the next 20 years leds will be out doing hps.


also patrik did u look at the charts? http://forum.grasscity.com/advanced-growing-techniques/508951-hunt-best-bulb-bring-sun-inside.html
if you scroll down you will see a post by johnk and his chart. its the one im referring to. he also stated a good point about were you get your charts from (i.e. a hydro shop or a botany scientific study) i feel leds can get the better spectrum and you can get smaller leds and of different spectrums and view angle witch would affect its area of shine witch would allow you to make an array of the specific flower nanometers and it will be more specific then hid. also not all the leds need to be placed on top why not split the leds top and the top of the sides or some thing. leds are more versatile. you need a university to come out with this study.

so what is the hps nanometer rating?
ill try google for a sciences result but it may take a while there are a lot of hydro shops coming out with charts
 

thatguy69

Member
so the people all over this site talking about lumens are wrong?
all hydro shops advertise the bulbs lumens is that not because they are useful?

i will join that forum and post my thread there for answers also

a tread saying how lumens are useless for plant growth

http://forum.grasscity.com/advanced-growing-techniques/417864-very-important-info-about-lumens.html


so plants need kelvins/nanometers.



do you have any knowledge on the wavelengths that plants use to make chlorophyll a and b?


what do you know about ultra violet and infrared lighting?
i have seen a post or two about them in the past
 

patrikantonius

Active Member
Please do a bit of research before asking silly questions... All you need to know is out there, it is really not complicated to find answers to these questions.
 

thatguy69

Member
can you tell me who makes the best red led in 635nm and 695nn and blue in 315nm and 485nm and i will buy them and make an array. also i would want to ad some "full spectrum" white light to the array but its mainly going to be reds.

im now just looking for a educated reference so i can build my own array.
 

guod

Well-Known Member
I think not. see his thread "how to wire a HID to a ballast" some weeks ago.

so here we go:
635nm & White; go for Cree or Osram top-notch as always
695nm; there are two from Roithner that came close (690 nm) LED690-66-60; (700 nm) LED700-66-60
315nm;check Thorlabs LED315W
485nm; also Thorlabs best match i found M490D1

interesting wavelength for a Growlight

280 - 315 nm Includes harmful UVB ultraviolet light which causes plants colors to fade
315 - 380 nm Range of UVA ultraviolet light which is neither harmful nor beneficial to most plants.

enough of them and you can grow white weed.
 

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
For the most basic ratio and spectrum i would just stick with these:

http://www.rapidled.com/cree-xt-e-royal-blue-led-1/........more efficient than the xp-e/ don't use to many

http://www.rapidled.com/cree-xp-e-red-led/......want a large ratio of these

http://www.rapidled.com/philips-rebel-es-660nm-deep-red-led/.......and a couple of these deep reds

slap it onto a quality heatsink http://www.rapidled.com/6-width-black-anodized/ and add a meanwell driver/fan (optional) and that's it............basically just copying hans panel..............good luck
 

Buck123

Well-Known Member
Dude with all the induction grows around maybe start looking around at those they seem to kill any led available! Yet am i to see a led get big buds!
 

chazbolin

Well-Known Member
Dude with all the induction grows around maybe start looking around at those they seem to kill any led available! Yet am i to see a led get big buds!
Hey Bucko!

Did I tell you I was at the San Francisco Maximum Yield expo last weekend and met two lovely ladies manning the Hydro Grow LED booth. One was Cammie and when they asked me what I'm growing under and I told them Inda-Gro I was told that Inda-Gro, who was also at the show, agreed to do a side by side with them and one of their 420's. Be interesting to see a pure LED grow come in even close in a start to finish, watt:watt, side by side in a 5 x 5 area.

I say let Spliff run it and let's see how it rolls but it won't even be close. The IG will cream it and all the LED guys will say Spliff must have done something wrong on the LED side.

:wall:
 

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
Hey Bucko!

Did I tell you I was at the San Francisco Maximum Yield expo last weekend and met two lovely ladies manning the Hydro Grow LED booth. One was Cammie and when they asked me what I'm growing under and I told them Inda-Gro I was told that Inda-Gro who was also at the show agreed to do a side by side with them and one of their 420's. Be interesting to see a pure LED grow come in even close in a start to finish side by side in a 5 x 5 area. I say let Spliff run it and let's see how it rolls
you know that cammie was once a man.........just saying:p
 

chazbolin

Well-Known Member
No fucking way!

Well it was San Francisco so I guess anything is possible.

Tell me you're shitting though right?

yeah Cammie and Julie McKenzie it says on the card. Sisters maybe?
 

digimidgi

Well-Known Member
Hey Bucko!

Did I tell you I was at the San Francisco Maximum Yield expo last weekend and met two lovely ladies manning the Hydro Grow LED booth. One was Cammie and when they asked me what I'm growing under and I told them Inda-Gro I was told that Inda-Gro, who was also at the show, agreed to do a side by side with them and one of their 420's. Be interesting to see a pure LED grow come in even close in a start to finish, watt:watt, side by side in a 5 x 5 area.

I say let Spliff run it and let's see how it rolls but it won't even be close. The IG will cream it and all the LED guys will say Spliff must have done something wrong on the LED side.

:wall:
Well It wouldn't be fair to have Cammy representing the LED lighting side since she/him/it wouldn't be using the best LED technology in the V's comparison contest.
 
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