Who says LED doesnt grow big flowers?

Mohican said:
My aquarium T5s in my clone cab still get pretty warm. How is heat with two 8 bulb t5s?

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depends in the t5. Hydrofarms put out less heat than quantum badboys. My 3 inda gros together put out less heat than 2 badboys. The vertical vpar puts out more heat than the overhead 420's.
 
hyroot said:
depends in the t5. Hydrofarms put out less heat than quantum badboys. My 3 inda gros together put out less heat than 2 badboys. The vertical vpar puts out more heat than the overhead 420's.
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Maybe you should find waldo and ask for a physics lesson:D..........the same 420 watt induction bulb, in a different open fixture orientation will NOT be cooler than the other.
 
PSUAGRO. said:
Maybe you should find waldo and ask for a physics lesson:D..........the same 420 watt induction bulb, in a different open fixture orientation will NOT be cooler than the other.
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based on where the ballast is placed and open ended reflector. The heat displacement is different. Than the overheads.. The reflector does not direct the heat any specific direction. With the pontoons on the vpar there are no 730"leds. But twice as many 660 leds. Since leds are on both sides of the light. More led's more heat. Hnmmmm logic
 
hyroot said:
not all watts are the same. Its about electrical efficiency. A51 led 160 is 47% efficient. It produces a little under 80 watts of light and the rest wasted energy (heat). A 1000w hps is 30% efficient. It produces 300w of light and 700w of wasted energy (heat). A toaster is designed for heat so its 100% efficient. The photosynthetic efficacy comes into play . A t5 with aq bulbs will out perform a 600w mh and hps
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i have a question about this post that i'm not quite picking up what you're putting down.. i understand that you're saying that leds are more effecient, they put out more lumens per watt then say an hid, but that doesn't change the wattage they draw, no? it just means that they make better use of what they use..
100 watts is 100 watts, whether half of those watts get wasted in the form of heat, or they all get used in the form of photons, ie, light..
of am i reading too much into what you're saying here??
 
racerboy71 said:
i have a question about this post that i'm not quite picking up what you're putting down.. i understand that you're saying that leds are more effecient, they put out more lumens per watt then say an hid, but that doesn't change the wattage they draw, no? it just means that they make better use of what they use..
100 watts is 100 watts, whether half of those watts get wasted in the form of heat, or they all get used in the form of photons, ie, light..
of am i reading too much into what you're saying here??
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I was referring to electrical efficiency. What they are capable of being driven and what they are actually driven. How much light per watt is actuallly being put out. After all that spectrum comes into play. How plants absorb more regions than others. 100 watts is not 100 watts. At home depot a 18w Cree led puts out the same amount of light as 100w incandescent.
 
racerboy71 said:
i have a question about this post that i'm not quite picking up what you're putting down.. i understand that you're saying that leds are more effecient, they put out more lumens per watt then say an hid, but that doesn't change the wattage they draw, no? it just means that they make better use of what they use..
100 watts is 100 watts, whether half of those watts get wasted in the form of heat, or they all get used in the form of photons, ie, light..
of am i reading too much into what you're saying here??
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The way I see it, you can get the same results by using less watts of LED. This makes less heat and lower bills. But as we are discussing the fact that all watts are not created equal, don't forget that not all watts of LED are equal either. Lights like the Area51s' are even more efficient than the generic ones.
 
hyroot said:
I was referring to electrical efficiency. What they are capable of being driven and what they are actually driven. How much light per watt is actuallly being put out. After all that spectrum comes into play. How plants absorb more regions than others. 100 watts is not 100 watts. At home depot a 18w Cree led puts out the same amount of light as 100w incandescent.
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TubeAndJar said:
The way I see it, you can get the same results by using less watts of LED. This makes less heat and lower bills. But as we are discussing the fact that all watts are not created equal, don't forget that not all watts of LED are equal either. Lights like the Area51s' are even more efficient than the generic ones.
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ok, i get what you're saying, but still, to say 100 watts isn't 100 watts is misleading.. all the watts refers to is how much electricity is being drawn by each lamp, not what the lamp is doing with it in the form of creating light.. so techinically, yeah, 100 watts of led is still going to draw the same 100 watts of electricity that an hid bulb will draw, or even an 100 watt toaster.. all the watts are is a draw of current..
naturally, an led uses that 100 watts better, but when you get your bill in the mail, you're going to be paying the same amount whether you grew with 100 watts or led, or 100 watts of incadesent.. of course we all know 100 watts of incadsent is rubbish, but they're still drawing the same wattage..
 
racerboy71 said:
ok, i get what you're saying, but still, to say 100 watts isn't 100 watts is misleading.. all the watts refers to is how much electricity is being drawn by each lamp, not what the lamp is doing with it in the form of creating light.. so techinically, yeah, 100 watts of led is still going to draw the same 100 watts of electricity that an hid bulb will draw, or even an 100 watt toaster.. all the watts are is a draw of current..
naturally, an led uses that 100 watts better, but when you get your bill in the mail, you're going to be paying the same amount whether you grew with 100 watts or led, or 100 watts of incadesent.. of course we all know 100 watts of incadsent is rubbish, but they're still drawing the same wattage..
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Yep, you got it. This guy got the same results with 280w of LED as he did with his 400w HID, and I bet his room was a lot cooler.
 
racerboy71 said:
ok, i get what you're saying, but still, to say 100 watts isn't 100 watts is misleading.. all the watts refers to is how much electricity is being drawn by each lamp, not what the lamp is doing with it in the form of creating light.. so techinically, yeah, 100 watts of led is still going to draw the same 100 watts of electricity that an hid bulb will draw, or even an 100 watt toaster.. all the watts are is a draw of current..
naturally, an led uses that 100 watts better, but when you get your bill in the mail, you're going to be paying the same amount whether you grew with 100 watts or led, or 100 watts of incadesent.. of course we all know 100 watts of incadsent is rubbish, but they're still drawing the same wattage..
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Ding ding ding! Someone by him a race car.. ...a watt is a watt......if they all draw the same wattage they all put out the SAME heat.some techs will have much greater efficiency in converting energy into "light"....like hps vs incandescent.

We keep having the same discussion every month;-)
 
PSUAGRO. said:
Ding ding ding! Someone by him a race car.. ...a watt is a watt......if they all draw the same wattage they all put out the SAME heat.some techs will have much greater efficiency in converting energy into "light"....like hps vs incandescent.

We keep having the same discussion every month;-)
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i have read this thread like 3 separate times, and i wasn't going to say anything as i wasn't sure if i was understanding what he meant by all watts aren't the same, but idk, i decided i'd ask for a bit of clarification..
i have never grown with leds, nor do i know much about them, but i find the subject fascinating and am always looking to expand my knowledge.. :D
 
racerboy71 said:
ok, i get what you're saying, but still, to say 100 watts isn't 100 watts is misleading.. all the watts refers to is how much electricity is being drawn by each lamp, not what the lamp is doing with it in the form of creating light.. so techinically, yeah, 100 watts of led is still going to draw the same 100 watts of electricity that an hid bulb will draw, or even an 100 watt toaster.. all the watts are is a draw of current..
naturally, an led uses that 100 watts better, but when you get your bill in the mail, you're going to be paying the same amount whether you grew with 100 watts or led, or 100 watts of incadesent.. of course we all know 100 watts of incadsent is rubbish, but they're still drawing the same wattage..
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OK I'll take a stab at this. Yes a watt is a watt at the wall but because of the difference in efficiency and spectrum,LED delivers more light energy per watt to the plant than HPS. If you had a quality spectrum LED that was twice as efficient than HPS it would not have twice the grow power of the HPS because of the wider spectrum but with a full spectrum comes a higher quality than HPS. I think 600 watts of quality spectrum and efficient LED will yield close to the same as 1000 watt of HPS but the LED will produce higher quality. There is a grow going on now with this comparison if you want to follow it.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/apache-at600-led-vs-1000w-hps-blue-dream-grow.813412/
 
captainmorgan said:
OK I'll take a stab at this. Yes a watt is a watt at the wall but because of the difference in efficiency and spectrum,LED delivers more light energy per watt to the plant than HPS. If you had a quality spectrum LED that was twice as efficient than HPS it would not have twice the grow power of the HPS because of the wider spectrum but with a full spectrum comes a higher quality than HPS. I think 600 watts of quality spectrum and efficient LED will yield close to the same as 1000 watt of HPS but the LED will produce higher quality. There is a grow going on now with this comparison if you want to follow it.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/apache-at600-led-vs-1000w-hps-blue-dream-grow.813412/
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yeah, i understand that point captain morgan.. you get more lumens, or par, or or foot candle, or w/e term one might want to use for an amount of light from a source, vs say an hid bulb..
but watts aren't light, watt is just an amount of electrical draw.. one has nothing to do with the other, at all, as you don't have to use watts to create light.. you can use watts to create strictly heat for instance, with a toaster for example..
my issue is just saying a watt isn't always a watt when a watt is always going to be a watt, that'd be like saying a foot isn't always a foot, when we all know that a foot is always going to be 12 inches no matter how we measure it.. now, i understand for ex, that leds would be able to run a foot faster then an hid if that were at all possible, ie, meaning that leds put out more light then an hid.
 
hyroot said:
I was referring to electrical efficiency. What they are capable of being driven and what they are actually driven. How much light per watt is actuallly being put out. After all that spectrum comes into play. How plants absorb more regions than others. 100 watts is not 1000 watts. At home depot a 16w Cree led puts out the same amount of light as 100w incandescent.
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PSUAGRO. said:
Ding ding ding! Someone by him a race car.. ...a watt is a watt......if they all draw the same wattage they all put out the SAME heat.some techs will have much greater efficiency in converting energy into "light"....like hps vs incandescent.

We keep having the same discussion every month;-)
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someone ^^^^ should be wearing a dunce cap. We have been over this. Yes a watt is a watt. Not all watts are created the same. More efficient watts equals less heat. An inda Gro 420 at 420 watts puts out quite a bit less heat than a 400w hps. A 330w CMH is about the same heat output as a 250w hps. An 860w CMH heat out put is the same as as
600w hps. Of course mercury when exited puts out a tremendous amount of heat. 600w of led does not at all put out the same heat as a 600w hps. Remeber in my der drama thread where supra and stardust came in and explained all that. Wasted watts / energy = heat
 
hyroot said:
someone ^^^^ should be wearing a dunce cap. We have been over this. Yes a watt is a watt. Not all watts are created the same. More efficient watts equals less heat. An inda Gro 420 at 420 watts puts out quite a bit less heat than a 400w hps. A 330w CMH is about the same heat output as a 250w hps. An 860w CMH heat out put is the same as as
600w hps. Of course mercury when exited puts out a tremendous amount of heat. 600w of led does not at all put out the same heat as a 600w hps. Remeber in my der drama thread where supra and stardust came in and explained all that. Wasted watts / energy = heat
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all watts are created equal.. say for instance, a watt was a 16 oz glass of water.. it's just a measurement of electricity, nothing more, nothing less.. now, it's not the watts that are different, as a watt is always going to be a 16 oz of water, it's what ever you plug into it and is using the watts that is different.. the watts will always be the same..
sure, an led might use 40% of that watt to make x amount of light with, while an hid might use say 60 percent of that same watt to make the same amount of light.. this is the effeciency you keep talking about.. of course the led is does a better job of converting electric into light, but it's still drawing the same 100 watts of led for 100 watts of w/e else you're using..
 
racerboy71 said:
yeah, i understand that point captain morgan.. you get more lumens, or par, or or foot candle, or w/e term one might want to use for an amount of light from a source, vs say an hid bulb..
but watts aren't light, watt is just an amount of electrical draw.. one has nothing to do with the other, at all, as you don't have to use watts to create light.. you can use watts to create strictly heat for instance, with a toaster for example..
my issue is just saying a watt isn't always a watt when a watt is always going to be a watt, that'd be like saying a foot isn't always a foot, when we all know that a foot is always going to be 12 inches no matter how we measure it.. now, i understand for ex, that leds would be able to run a foot faster then an hid if that were at all possible, ie, meaning that leds put out more light then an hid.
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Yep a watt is a watt,which is not a good term along with lumens to use when comparing lights . You should look at Par or a measurement like umoles to measure the energy getting to the plant but you also have to compare the spectrum's.
 
captainmorgan said:
Yep a watt is a watt,which is not a good term along with lumens to use when comparing lights . You should look at Par or a measurement like umoles to measure the energy getting to the plant but you also have to compare the spectrum's.
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yeah, lumens is another bad term as all lumens are is a measurement of the color emitted by a light source to the human eye, and we all know plants aren't humans, lol..
 
FROM FEB 26TH ................with my old buddy hyroot;)

↑
200_s.gif



6 23w cfls put out more heat than my inda gro 420 combo. why does a 330 watt cmh run the same temps as a 250w hps? all 3 indagros put out less heat than 2 badboy 8 bulb t5's. watts has nothing to do with the amount of heat. watts is a measurement of power

more examples

All of the electricity entering a toaster is converted to heat. Since the purpose of a toaster is to produce heat, it is actually 100% efficient at its intended task.

Electric motors are about 90% efficient, that is, 90% of the electric power is converted to mechanical power. Your garbage disposal transforms most of the electric power into grinding carrot peels, the fan motor in your furnace moves air, and so on.

To analyze the efficiency of heat engines like refrigerators or air conditioners, you need to know some thermodynamics.
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ME................stating for the 35th time..............he might have forgot since feb 26th 2014

Ha................you wanna start this again????:shock:.........lol

So as I said above ^^^we are on EARTH, so light efficiency aside 600watts hid ==== 600watts led=== 600w cfls====600w t5/t8/t12/pll/etc=====600w Induction====so on and so on

AMPS x VOLTS ====== WATTS............. watt====watt..............for the 35th time:P

1 watt = 1 joule/sec ...............and/or............................. 1 joule = 1 watt/sec

ONE joule is the energy required to heat one gram dry/cool air by 1 degree celcius this shit will never change brother no matter how you spin it. we aren't ignoring physics or the laws of thermodynamics are we???

"energy cannot be created or destroyed"

600 watts(ballast is another 50w) coming out of a ten inch bulb(hps) will FEEL hotter than 600watts of leds spread out over a 3x3 panel (fero 600watt)=====but will raise the ambient room temps exactly the same if they draw the same from the plug.

FACT.......:hump:


Where's waldo or the fucking plane???????????????????????????????????
 
racerboy71 said:
yeah, lumens is another bad term as all lumens are is a measurement of the color emitted by a light source to the human eye, and we all know plants aren't humans, lol..
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Yea,watts is only good for measuring your operating costs. Watts and lumens are the only terms regular people know so they push those terms even tho they don't really tell the story about the light. You can usually tell the good from the bad sellers by the info they give you,if all they push is watts and lumens look out. A reputably seller or manufacturer should also give you par or umoles readings and a spectral graph and at least the brands of the parts they are using.
 
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