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I like topping well enough. I think if you can accommodate a little extra vegetative time to allow the new nodes to take over and fill out that it can be a very useful training tool.

At this point I think you could top them, and you should if you'd like to slow them down a little while the others catch up.

Personally, I like to begin training very early.

Topping around the 3 internode set. Then LST training the 6 branches the plant has into a circular design. As more and more branches develop the branches can be super cropped to increase stem thicknesses and support heavy nugs later on. Finally the plant can be placed beneath a screen to create a scrog and to further train the branches and establish more and more budsites all while developing a very even and large canopy. When the screen is about 70% full flowering begins and you wind up with a very large and healthy plant, holding hundreds of bud sites.

So you can take the slower approach, and really train your plant into being a monster. Or you can take a quick approach and grow 99 plants in a SOG. Both methods have the same number of bud sites. The slower method is more legally acceptable while the faster approach carries considerably more risk while harvest more bud in a given period of time.

Each grower has limitations and possibilities. It is a matter of harnessing each and working within the constraints that are specific to your situation. How you train, and what you train, and when you train... All of these become extremely subjective and as a result it is more grower intuition that decides the answers to these questions. At the end of the day you just have to jump in with both feet and hope for the best. Take everything as a learning experience.

And I've been there man. Hours of study... years now actually...

I started with the Growing Marijuana Torrent, and all the videos I could get my hands on. Time-lapse stuff can be really helpful in the beginning before you've grown a plant to maturity. Just keep searching, keep reading.

I'll PM you another site I'm trying to keep on the DL because it is a really, really, awesome environment. They have some fantastic how-to guides and the DIY section is IMMENSE!!!

have been growing with soil in 5 gal. buckets and the pH has been 8.1 pH tap water that i adjusted to 6.8 pH ,and let it sit for 24 hours to allow the chlorine to dissipate.
it has been going in at 6.8 pH and it has been coming out at 6.2 pH.
Now i have 3 gal.lon buckets and I am worried becuase the pH is dropping from 8.1pH going in, to 5.8 coming out.
is it normal to have the large change in pH ? after going through the soil?
is there an optimal range for me to get?
I have been trying to find answers in the forums... but i am too slow on the computer to figure it out.
is there a good place for me to look for specifics on pH level?
I think the best advice has been to try to have the pH at 6.2 coming out .. when growing in soil.
is there an average drop in pH that is best?

dlm494 said:

have been growing with soil in 5 gal. buckets and the pH has been 8.1 pH tap water that i adjusted to 6.8 pH ,and let it sit for 24 hours to allow the chlorine to dissipate.
it has been going in at 6.8 pH and it has been coming out at 6.2 pH.
Now i have 3 gal.lon buckets and I am worried becuase the pH is dropping from 8.1pH going in, to 5.8 coming out.
is it normal to have the large change in pH ? after going through the soil?
is there an optimal range for me to get?
I have been trying to find answers in the forums... but i am too slow on the computer to figure it out.
is there a good place for me to look for specifics on pH level?
I think the best advice has been to try to have the pH at 6.2 coming out .. when growing in soil.
is there an average drop in pH that is best?

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If you are watering with plain, pH balanced, water and the pH is dropping that indicates that your soil is flushing out something. I like to try to keep my in and my out within the proper pH range for soil. The lowest pH you want to use, or to have as runoff, is around 6.5 (sometimes, some strains like it lower, maybe 6.3ish) and the highest you want the pH is around 7.0.

So right now, my suggestion to you is to use 7.0pH balanced water to excess. Saturate the media and add maybe 1/2 gallon (or 2 liters) at a time. Remove those 2 liters and test the pH. Keep adding water, and testing, until the runoff pH is above 6.5. That should remove any acidic excess.

The second step is going to be to provide a pH buffer that constantly maintains a mostly neutral pH (brings high pH down and low pH up). Top dress your soil with 1 Tablespoon of crushed dolomite garden lime for every gallon of soil. Water through this once more to bring some of those elements into the media and balance out the pH once and for all. You will continue to water through the dolomite as time goes on.

If you see your plants begin to yellow, gently, from the bottom leaves up, then you will want to apply a gentle organic feeding that provides a balanced diet of NPK. If you're not using nutrients, you could till the top inch of the soil and work in a top dressing of composted organic cow manure. This will provide food and microbes in a very good ratio for your soil and plant. If you're working in soil, keep it organic. Use about 1 inch of extra compost when you amend it in, and don't forget the perlite at about 20%.

if they swimmn n water n drownn woodnt that mean im overwatern snow? lol n the problem was i wasnt watern enuff it was bone dry n id water once a day then u told me AGES AGO how to water "properly" n theyve started sprouting up n out since then... so srry if u thnk ur reiterating but ur inferences on my problem conflicts with ur method cuz i have been watern only wen it starts gettn dry n they want it but ill post more pics soon cuz they r doin a lot better since u helped me out thnx man

I believe I told you that you might not need to water more than once a week with your planters and your plants.

I told you how little water a plant that size needs.

Young plants do not need that much water. Just look at the size of it. A little stem, and 4 leaves, there is more than adequate moisture in the surrounding soil that you want to encourage the roots to go and find.

Also, you claim the soil is "dry" but you're only looking at the top of the soil. If you want to know how much moisture remains in your planter then lift it up. If it is still somewhat heavy, if it weighs more than a feather, then you still have moisture in there and the soil is not dry.

You are watering too frequently. The problem WAS NOT and has never been dry soil. It has been your watering frequency (daily) waterings that did all the damage and set your plants behind.

So once again:

Water to saturation and the collection of 20% minimum runoff.
Lift the planter daily.
After 4 or 5 days the planter should begin to get very light.
Somewhere from 5 to 8 days you will (probably) find that when you lift the planter it feels "unnaturally" light.
When it hits "unnatural" lightness that is when you saturate once again and collect 20% more runoff.

It will be days between waterings. Maybe more than a week. You have a huge planter, with a very high water retention capacity, and a very small plant. The vast majority of the water you provide will be lost to evaporation or consumed by the microbes in the soil, because a plant that size needs just so little actual water.

Your watering frequency is your problem. Water to runoff once, then let as much time go by as is needed to let the entire soil just about dry out. Testing the top inch of soil is a TERRIBLE method for determining when to water an immature plant.

Good luck.

I just found out today that I have fungus gnats eaten at my roots and was given from the hydroponics store Natural Pyrethrin concentrate, I have just watered my plants last night will watering them again with this pryrenthrin be over watering them and im going under flourescent will putting them out in the sun for the day be ok then bring back under the flourescent at night thier four weeks old tomorrow

LookMaRoadKill said:

I just found out today that I have fungus gnats eaten at my roots and was given from the hydroponics store Natural Pyrethrin concentrate, I have just watered my plants last night will watering them again with this pryrenthrin be over watering them and im going under flourescent will putting them out in the sun for the day be ok then bring back under the flourescent at night thier four weeks old tomorrow

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LOL... You know what else contains pyrethrins? Flea Shampoo.

I have found that HotShot! No Pest Strips have done a fantastic job at wiping out gnat infestations in my own garden.

Good luck to you and your flea shampoo.

its a liquid concentrate two tablespoons to a gallon of water so will this be over watering and what about putting out in the sun during the day and flourescents at night

are you saying it wont kill the gnats?

sorry was reading your post again are you talking about fly traps cuz i had one in there but they seem to coming more out of my soil in packs i grow indoors and its very clean in there

Newbie question.....when "they" say a strain is an 8 week strain, does that mean to start flushing at 8 weeks or to be done flushing at 8 weeks? Hairs are about 25% amber and chrystals white.

LookMaRoadKill said:

its a liquid concentrate two tablespoons to a gallon of water so will this be over watering and what about putting out in the sun during the day and flourescents at night

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Putting it outside during the day is probably how you got the problem. Bugs live outside...
Over watering is watering too frequently. Not watering to excess. Once the media is saturated, it is saturated, so extra water at that point isn't going to hurt. What kills plants is watering just a little bit, every day, never allowing the roots a chance to breathe.

LookMaRoadKill said:

are you saying it wont kill the gnats?

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I'm saying it is a dangerous and poisonous compound that has been known to kill house cats in even small doses. I am saying I would never, ever, drop pesticides on my plant when a HotShot! strip is all I need.

uaogal said:

Newbie question.....when "they" say a strain is an 8 week strain, does that mean to start flushing at 8 weeks or to be done flushing at 8 weeks? Hairs are about 25% amber and chrystals white.

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You do not use the pistils to determine ripeness.

8 week strains are usually done within 60 days from the 12/12 switch. You can flush whenever you choose, but somewhere around day 50 to 55 is a good time to do it.

Shake well before mixing. Always add FloraMicro to
fresh water first and stir well, then add FloraGro and/or
FloraBloom. Never combine FloraMicro with FloraGro or
FloraBloom in undiluted form; doing so may cause
nutrient lockout making some minerals unavailable.

Has anyone read this warning on a label of MICRO Nutrients? Is it recommended to add nutrients* with calcium to your nutrient solution mixture first?

well that sucks cuz i already put the shit on my plants so i should probably get ready for a funeral huh? I asked the lady and she knew i was talking about pot and i have never put them outside they have been kept indoors since seeds with a/c and a hepa filter was just curious if they could go outside during the day i hear plants dont do well in florida weather this hot shot strip u speak of attarcts the gnats out of the soil?

ClosetSafe said:

Shake well before mixing. Always add FloraMicro to
fresh water first and stir well, then add FloraGro and/or
FloraBloom. Never combine FloraMicro with FloraGro or
FloraBloom in undiluted form; doing so may cause
nutrient lockout making some minerals unavailable.

Has anyone read this warning on a label of MICRO Nutrients? Is it recommended to add nutrients* with calcium to your nutrient solution mixture first?

Click to expand...

I think it depends on the reactivity of your nutrients. If you use an A+B style system that depends on an interaction of the nutrients in equal volumes (Canna, H&G, AN, HN, and others) then you want to be mixing these nutrients first. I prefer to use a 5 gallon bucket when mixing 10 gallons at a time. I'll mix all the A+B nutrients I need for 10 gallons into 5 gallons of water in a bucket on the side. In the primary reservoir I mix the remaining nutrients, cal-mag, liquid karma, etc, and then add the 5 gallon bucket of A+B solution to the 5 gallons of supplement nutrients in the 10 gallon reservoir.

When it comes to 3-part systems with a Grow-Micro-Bloom profile then I think it makes some sense to add the calcium containing nutrient first. One the reactivity scale, calcium isn't overly crazy stuff. Not like Potassium, Nitrogen, and Phosphorus at least. I'm not totally sure about this but it could be that that the calcium buffers the pH a little as well.

LookMaRoadKill said:

well that sucks cuz i already put the shit on my plants so i should probably get ready for a funeral huh? I asked the lady and she knew i was talking about pot and i have never put them outside they have been kept indoors since seeds with a/c and a hepa filter was just curious if they could go outside during the day i hear plants dont do well in florida weather this hot shot strip u speak of attarcts the gnats out of the soil?

Click to expand...

It just kills them. Definitely not something you want in the grow room near the end of harvest, but if you are in early veg a grow room is ventilated well enough to utilize the strip without having to be scared of the health concerns of using anything that "kills" something else.

The strips offgas something that kills the bugs DEAD. It takes maybe 5 to 7 days before all of them are gone (it only takes two to breed an army). It is the only thing I have ever used that killed every single gnat in under a week.

To use Gold Range NUTRIENT, simply follow these easy guidelines!

Fill your tank to 2/3rds of its capacity.
Add any permitted additives such as Dutch Master Gold Range ADD.27 / MAX first (DO NOT use MAX if you are using Gold Range ADD.27), then add Gold Range ZONE and Gold Range SILICA one at a time, stirring to mix before adding the next one. Please remember Gold Range NUTRIENT is very powerful and you should be very careful when you add any phosphorus boosters, Pk 13 / 14 or nitrogen boosters (kelp, seaweed or guano etc). If using Gold Range POTASH+ with Gold Range NUTRIENT, be sure to watch your leaf tips for ‘tip burn’ as this is a very powerful combination that should be used only by experienced growers!
Add the correct amount of Gold Range NUTRIENT part A for your tanks final or total capacity (according to the online Nutrient Calculator), stirring to mix.
Add the correct amount of Gold Range NUTRIENT part B for your tanks final or total capacity (according to the online Nutrient Calculator ), stirring to mix.
Never mix part A and part B undiluted! Always add separately to water.
Never mix Grow and Flower parts together. Always mix Grow A only with Grow B and Flower A only with Flower B.
Grow must be used in the vegetative cycle and Flower must be used in the bloom cycle.
Top up your reservoir or tank to its final level or volume and check the strength using a TDS (PPM or EC) meter. If required, add more Gold Range NUTRIENT (one part at a time) in small equal quantities, until you arrive at the correct nutrient strength. If your nutrient solution is too strong then add fresh water until you arrive at the correct nutrient strength. If your nutrient solution is too strong then add fresh water until you arrive at the correct nutrient strength.
Adjust pH to approximately 5.5 for Rockwool, Perlite, Clay, Vermiculite, Aeroponics, DWC, NFT, Hydro or Coco users or 5.9 for dirt or soilless systems such as Promix or Sunshine mix. See Growers Tips for more info.
Do NOT use any Calcium / Magnesium supplements as our nutrients are choc full of them!
Feed according to your systems normal requirements.

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This is what dutch master recommends for mixing their A+B. They recommend mixing A first. Part A has that calcium that is probably there to buffer the PH. Whether it be a two part A + B or three part, i've noticed most companies recommend adding the concentrate with calcium first.

it hasn't even been a couple of hrs since i used that gnat killer and now i have weird spots on my leaves now whats up?

Snow Crash said:

I think it depends on the reactivity of your nutrients. If you use an A+B style system that depends on an interaction of the nutrients in equal volumes (Canna, H&G, AN, HN, and others) then you want to be mixing these nutrients first. I prefer to use a 5 gallon bucket when mixing 10 gallons at a time. I'll mix all the A+B nutrients I need for 10 gallons into 5 gallons of water in a bucket on the side. In the primary reservoir I mix the remaining nutrients, cal-mag, liquid karma, etc, and then add the 5 gallon bucket of A+B solution to the 5 gallons of supplement nutrients in the 10 gallon reservoir.

When it comes to 3-part systems with a Grow-Micro-Bloom profile then I think it makes some sense to add the calcium containing nutrient first. One the reactivity scale, calcium isn't overly crazy stuff. Not like Potassium, Nitrogen, and Phosphorus at least. I'm not totally sure about this but it could be that that the calcium buffers the pH a little as well.




It just kills them. Definitely not something you want in the grow room near the end of harvest, but if you are in early veg a grow room is ventilated well enough to utilize the strip without having to be scared of the health concerns of using anything that "kills" something else.

The strips offgas something that kills the bugs DEAD. It takes maybe 5 to 7 days before all of them are gone (it only takes two to breed an army). It is the only thing I have ever used that killed every single gnat in under a week.

Click to expand...

Is there not enough cal-mag in flora nova grow if im using RO water then? Should I be adding cal-mag to my nute mix as well as the regular water?

With regards to how you mix your own nutrients, that is up to you. Personally, I get the A and B combined, then get the cal-mag diluted in the other half, and mix the two solutions together. I run tap water.

I imagine that if your tap water is under 250ppm (0.5ec) then I expect adding the Cal-Mag and nitrates before mixing in the other systems will have no detrimental effect on the system. Adding the Cal-Mag after the fact has not been shown, to myself at least, to cause any issues as far as precipitates or nutrient deficiency.

Generally I include some kind of organic chelate like Fulvic acid (@<0.25ml per Liter) with the Calcium supplement. The Organicare micro-nutrient system works this way. Calplex for the Calcium, Huvega for the Magnesium and other micros, and Humega as the Humic Acid organic chelate to keep the elements from reacting. It is this three part approach to Micro-nutrients that I try to apply in my own solutions (despite no longer using those specific bottles) while ensuring that the exact chemistry that should be taking place when mixing an A+B solution is done to completion.