Who has the better breeders - Europe or USA

Yeah, but it was claimed that a lot of strains bred in Amsterdam were actually bred in the US. I can think of a few examples... but a lot of the strains bred in the US started from amsterdam first anyway.

A lot of "where strains came from" is speculative too, and I bet a lot of breeders lie or were misinformed about original genetics.

Did Dutch passion directly get genetics from South Africa, or did they use parents from another dutch bred strain that came from South Africa? Obviously Nirvana got Pure power plant directly from Dutch passion, and as you'd imagine, it's great (if you like south african weed). Nirvana made it obvious with their name, but maybe Dutch passion "stole" parents from some other strain, and renamed it more sneakily?

Who knows!

Sativied said:

Created by Dutch Passion.

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well i can see this thread going on for about 800 pages ,what about columbia and jamaica and mexcio .dont count them out because back in the day there was prime shit coming from there

unwine99 said:

Wouldn't want to alienate your future clientele!

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That's really not relevant to me, although if I ever end up selling seeds - which isn't my goal I'm in it for the breeding, already have a good income sitting on my ass and as I explained in a recent post it would be hardly profitable for me - then I do expect it will be grown in the US. I'm not active in dutch forums anymore, it's like it's a gate from myth-hell, stuck in the last century. Flushing, no N during flowering, high% amber, defoliating, tons of BS nutrients and major hermaphobia.

The industry is lucky that I'm way too honest to enter this messed up industry. If I were to accept the offers from people from the US to send me clones/seeds, cross those with elite clones here, take on a little of that Dankster420 attitude, I would make a SHITLOAD of money on both sides. It would be too easy.

churchhaze said:

Yeah, but it was claimed that a lot of strains bred in Amsterdam were actually bred in the US. I can think of a few examples... but a lot of the strains bred in the US started from amsterdam first anyway.

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People make a lot of claims in this industry. Those original US breeders however no longer breed, or now live in Amsterdam.

Look up the history of the haze brothers, the indian, sam the skunkman, Nevil, Ben Dronkers, Flying Dutchmen, Shantibaba, Mr Nice, Arjan from GHS, Wernard from Positronics, and Old Ed (not rosenthal) and you can get some idea.

And before anyone gets too anal with nationalism, we don't do nationalism over here, morally outlawed since wwII. I don't derive anything from what someone else has done in my country. The fact is however that some of the dutch seed banks hold the best genetics for both growing and breeding and what the nationality of the original breeders, and all those who worked on it, is, is completely irrelevant to me.

It's that fact what many others abuse... same thing happens with Tulip seeds... just because it's from a dutch seed bank doesn't mean it's good, most of it isn't worth the money.

Sativied said:

Growing MJ was never legal here. Selling seeds, and 5gram per day per person is. We for decades have grown in small closets, attics and humid basements, always hiding from the cops, risking a raid every moment. Many small growers, and also small breeders, some of the popular ones have surprisingly small rooms. Space is a major limitation here, something that's usually not the case in the US.

So yeah, I definitely expect the US to close a gap (if it even exists, consider this a more serious reply ) over a short period of time.

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I can definitely see how space would be an issue over there compared to here.

How much has the tulip industry impacted cannabis growers over there in terms of technique and equipment throughout the years?

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Sativied said:

That's really not relevant to me, although if I ever end up selling seeds - which isn't my goal I'm in it for the breeding, already have a good income sitting on my ass and as I explained in a recent post it would be hardly profitable for me - then I do expect it will be grown in the US. I'm not active in dutch forums anymore, it's like it's a gate from myth-hell, stuck in the last century. Flushing, no N during flowering, high% amber, defoliating, tons of BS nutrients and major hermaphobia.

The industry is lucky that I'm way too honest to enter this messed up industry. If I were to accept the offers from people from the US to send me clones/seeds, cross those with elite clones here, take on a little of that Dankster420 attitude, I would make a SHITLOAD of money on both sides. It would be too easy.

People make a lot of claims in this industry. Those original US breeders however no longer breed, or now live in Amsterdam.

Look up the history of the haze brothers, the indian, sam the skunkman, Nevil, Ben Dronkers, Flying Dutchmen, Shantibaba, Mr Nice, Arjan from GHS, Wernard from Positronics, and Old Ed (not rosenthal) and you can get some idea.

And before anyone gets too anal with nationalism, we don't do nationalism over here, morally outlawed since wwII. I don't derive anything from what someone else has done in my country. The fact is however that some of the dutch seed banks hold the best genetics for both growing and breeding and what the nationality of the original breeders, and all those who worked on it, is, is completely irrelevant to me.

It's that fact what many others abuse... same thing happens with Tulip seeds... just because it's from a dutch seed bank doesn't mean it's good, most of it isn't worth the money.

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U seem to be very knowledgeable man thanks for sharing ur input i like to read about this shit even more when someone saying it isnt ignorant im glad this dude asked that question

Wilksey said:

How much has the tulip industry impacted cannabis growers over there in terms of technique and equipment throughout the years?

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A lot. It's really the greenhouse industry that has had a major impact. NL is the second/third largest agricultural exporter in the world, after the US, but do so with obviously far less space, which is pretty nuts if you see the numbers. It's why companies like Gavita exist. I've mentioned it before, if there's one thing cannabis growers are better at over here it's using space AND time efficiently. That's just something that evolved over decades, small homes, small closets. First time growers generally seem to do better here because of that rather standard way of closet growing (light-plantcount-vegtime-exhaust-space ratio).

HPS indoor growing was here introduced by one of the 'names' I mentioned earlier, Wernard and positronics, they had a show grow in Amsterdam, I think at yellow mellow. I also have an old grow guide from them with advice from sam the skunkman. Wernard and old positronics gear is also one of the few UncleBen recommends (for what it's worth, for the non-defolihater-haters). I guess that's partly the stuff that made it to NL through Old Ed amongst others and not through Sam the Skunkman. One could perhaps argue the dutch lines with a cleaner history. I don't know.

I used to make fun of kids in school for wanting to become "a farmer"... They now got land, buildings, all the space they need. Many are millionaires running high-tech hydro setups... some are growing hemp legally, some will grow cannabis legally some day... fuckers had it figured it.

Anyway "breeding"... lack of space is obviously not a good thing when it comes to breeding (and maintaining genetics for decades is a challenge pollenchuckers won't even understand) and is why some left to other countries and why spain is so great. You can breed indoors, and produce the seeds outdoors.

most of what was started in the us was brought here by hippies, surfers and vets.....then the 8 tons (or whatever it was) of indica beans hit the west coast.

old shol4evr said:

well i can see this thread going on for about 800 pages ,what about columbia and jamaica and mexcio .dont count them out because back in the day there was prime shit coming from there

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I still puff on some brick every now and then. The taste is not always there although I don't find it unpleasant and sometimes I'm able to find a bag that induces some pretty interesting highs. I took a Jamaican cruise once and you can best believe I made it a priority to find some of their best ganja. It looked like a dried up old turd but oily as well and the taste was spicy and woods similar to Mexican brick.....but the high was far more cerebral and overall just completely unforgettable.

I think that's one of my biggest issues with many of the strains and growing methods around here - they're very one dimensional - it's all about yield and what can put you on your ass the fastest - a complete disregard for subtlety and nuance. *sigh*

Sativied said:

NL is the second/third largest agricultural exporter in the world, after the US, but do so with obviously far less space, which is pretty nuts if you see the numbers.

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That's just nuts when you think about the relatively small total land mass the NL occupies. Aside from physical space issues, isn't there some weather issues that have helped to drive the greenhouse industry as well? Storms or some shit?

Regardless, I'd be willing to bet the NL pretty much lead the way as far as inside / greenhouse grow innovations and breeding compared to all other western nations. Anybody and everybody I knew that was growing weed back in the day was growing outside, and I don't think the inside grows really started to kick off over here until maybe the 90's?

unwine99 said:

It looked like a dried up old turd but oily as well and the taste was spicy and woods similar to Mexican brick.....but the high was far more cerebral and overall just completely unforgettable.

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Ah yes.....you found the magical strain knows as "The Poo".

It's the shit.

unwine99 said:

I think that's one of my biggest issues with many of the strains and growing methods around here - they're very one dimensional - it's all about yield and what can put you on your ass the fastest - a complete disregard for subtlety and nuance. *sigh*

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That's how one imo can recognize the better breeders. Taste is a good example. It's very hard to pollen chuck a new taste/smell stable. It's very easy to produce a pack of seeds with some purple and some frosty and some sweet, but getting them all to be purple sweet frosty... that's what bothers me most really, the find-a-keeper packs. That should mean finding the best yielder and most vigorous from a batch that is otherwise the same. Not having to find one that tastes or looks as the breeder set out or portrayed it.

Sativied said:

That's how one imo can recognize the better breeders. Taste is a good example. It's very hard to pollen chuck a new taste/smell stable. It's very easy to produce a pack of seeds with some purple and some frosty and some sweet, but getting them all to be purple sweet frosty... that's what bothers me most really, the find-a-keeper packs. That should mean finding the best yielder and most vigorous from a batch that is otherwise the same. Not having to find one that tastes or looks as the breeder set out or portrayed it.

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Great point and very true. I tend to take breeder descriptions with a grain of salt; I usually piggy back off experienced growers who I respect and their recommendations - if they say a strain is fire for such and such reason I am much more inclined to spend money than if I were just scrolling through and reading seed bank catalogs. I would have no problem paying more if I knew with some level of certainty that I was getting what I paid for. The industry just needs to be purged of all the phonies somehow so the real O.G's can get some legitimate work done without having to stoop to the level of the cannabis equivalent of "puppy mills" to pay the bills and stay in business.

Wilksey said:

Aside from physical space issues, isn't there some weather issues that have helped to drive the greenhouse industry as well? Storms or some shit?

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It's the bad climate that resulted in greenhouse growing which with the use of artificial lighting goes on 365 days a year (hence many cycles). Hardly any storms though, nothing like in some areas in the US anyway, just miserable depressing cloudy rainy weather.

Something that did have a major influence on the seed and breeding industry here is outlawing the trade in clones. Can't legally buy clones here. Small space growers, want to pull at least 5 harvests a year, don't have an extra room for clones... Obviously people still trade and sell clones but seeds became a lot more popular because of that, especially feminized seeds. 5 plants or less doesn't lead to fines or anything, cops just take the plants and fuck up the gear...

Support your local breeders...

The US hands down in terms of quality breeders. Europe in terms of seed availability. Sure The US has pollen chuckers but Europe has its fair share as we all know. If the US ever makes selling seeds legal then the European seed market is in for a huge hit.

it's all opinion. people remember that the u.s has companies like cali connection and tga representing them. lol!

the best genetics i have grown and smoked come from these guys: www.breedersboutique.com

they have breeders in the u.s and europe so end the argument and let's remember that we are all brothers at the end of the day

strains that are Darwinian rejects< What do you mean by this?