Who can afford to hire a housekeeper or Nanny. I guess I can

ginwilly · Dec 7, 2012

UncleBuck said:
again, hate crimes are not based on who the victim and the assailant were, it is based on the intents and motives of the assailant. how do you not understand this?

I understand this is how you see things and are trying to change society laws based on your view of the world. If you killed a guy for taking your parking place it shouldn't matter if he's white or if he's black and you are a racist fuck. How ignorant is it for the defendant's lawyer to have to make an argument that his client would have killed the parking spot thief no matter what color he is to keep his client's sentence lower?

Of course we judge motive. Motive can decide guilt or not. Meant to do it, didn't mean to do it, these would carry a different sentence. Justifiable, not justifiable, those also carry different weights. Committing a crime because of hate should not weigh more than committing that same exact crime because of jealousy, greed, you just really really don't like Mondays, she wore the same dress as you or the bitch is stealing your daughter's cheerleader spot.

UncleBuck · Dec 7, 2012

ginwilly said:
I understand this is how you see things and are trying to change society laws based on your view of the world. If you killed a guy for taking your parking place it shouldn't matter if he's white or if he's black and you are a racist fuck. How ignorant is it for the defendant's lawyer to have to make an argument that his client would have killed the parking spot thief no matter what color he is to keep his client's sentence lower?

Of course we judge motive. Motive can decide guilt or not. Meant to do it, didn't mean to do it, these would carry a different sentence. Justifiable, not justifiable, those also carry different weights. Committing a crime because of hate should not weigh more than committing that same exact crime because of jealousy, greed, you just really really don't like Mondays, she wore the same dress as you or the bitch is stealing your daughter's cheerleader spot.

do you agree that a crime is more heinous if it is based on hatred due to race/sexual preference/ethnicity/etcetera to some degree?

ginwilly · Dec 7, 2012

UncleBuck said:
do you agree that a crime is more heinous if it is based on hatred due to race/sexual preference/ethnicity/etcetera to some degree?

political correctness has ruined your mind

do you agree it's more heinous to peel off the skin of your victim because she slept with your girlfriend than if he slept with your girlfriend assuming your not gay and hate lesbians to some degree?

If I beat someone because they are gay it is not worse to society than if I beat someone because they said my name meant whiskeydick. I committed an unjustifiable, aggravated assault to whatever degree it was which carries a sentence no less than and no more than a predetermined time.

Even threats are labelled hate threats. If threaten to kill you because you are Muslim I have not committed a more heinous act than if I threaten to kill you because you have red hair. What if I didn't really have a motive? I just felt like killing some random that day. Is no motive better than killing because someone is white?

Edit to expand on the bold,
You are trying to convince me that it's a worse crime than if you had a similar case but the skin-peeler says if it had been a dude I probably would have just left her. In your view it would make me a better person if I'd peel off the skin of both guy or girl instead of just the girl because I hate lesbians, that's messed up.

UncleBuck · Dec 8, 2012

ginwilly said:
If threaten to kill you because you are Muslim I have not committed a more heinous act than if I threaten to kill you because you have red hair. What if I didn't really have a motive?

you're being silly.

i can show you via an easy google search people killed because they were muslim or looked muslimish. red hair? not so much.

if you didn't have a motive, that would be much different than if you killed someone because they were/looked like [X]. those two cases get treated much differently, as they should. we would see the no-motive killer as a cold blooded psycho whereas the person who killed because he hates [X] would be seen as a hateful idiot. does that make it clearer?

i can show you cases where kids just singled out someone who was black and beat him and dragged him behind their truck and ran him over until he was dead. their ONLY motive was race. would you call that a hate crime? or just another murder?

nontheist · Dec 8, 2012

UncleBuck said:
do you agree that a crime is more heinous if it is based on hatred due to race/sexual preference/ethnicity/etcetera to some degree?

Bucky you're the worst liberal ever. You sit around making outlandish claims trying to make a point about fairness and equality than you post shit like this. Allowing our piss poor judicial system to alter punishment towards someone do to their race/sexual preference/ethnicity/etcetera background is the worst fucking idea ever and can backfire in so many ways. A black person makes a derogatory remark in public about another race and 5 years later get into an altercation and that person happens to be that race BAM lets slap 20 more years for a hate crime. Boy the hay day our boys in blue would have with this I bet hate crimes charges would sky rocket. Striking an officer and calling him a cock sucker guaranteed 10 years.

UncleBuck · Dec 8, 2012

nontheist said:
Bucky you're the worst liberal ever. You sit around making outlandish claims trying to make a point about fairness and equality than you post shit like this. Allowing our piss poor judicial system to alter punishment towards someone do to their race/sexual preference/ethnicity/etcetera background is the worst fucking idea ever and can backfire in so many ways. A black person makes a derogatory remark in public about another race and 5 years later get into an altercation and that person happens to be that race BAM lets slap 20 more years for a hate crime. Boy the hay day our boys in blue would have with this I bet hate crimes charges would sky rocket. Striking an officer and calling him a cock sucker guaranteed 10 years.

we already have hate crime legislation and that is not happening. hyperbole harder, socky McJizzsock.

some crimes are based solely on racial hatred. the only motive whatsoever for the murder is the race of the parties involved.

hate crimes exist, why not legislate for them? or do you just prefer to ignore the reality of the world around you?

nontheist · Dec 8, 2012

UncleBuck said:
we already have hate crime legislation and that is not happening. hyperbole harder, socky McJizzsock.

some crimes are based solely on racial hatred. the only motive whatsoever for the murder is the race of the parties involved.

hate crimes exist, why not legislate for them? or do you just prefer to ignore the reality of the world around you?

Well generally when someone takes a tire tool to another head it's pretty obvious hate is involved, reason doesn't matter the crime is the same.

UncleBuck · Dec 8, 2012

nontheist said:
Well generally when someone takes a tire tool to another head it's pretty obvious hate is involved, reason doesn't matter the crime is the same.

the same as what?

a few white teens go out and look for a black person to kill. they find him, beat him, drag him behind their truck, and run him over until he is dead. what is that the same as?

is that the same as someone who is driving along and the sun glares in their eyes and they don't see the pedestrian who is walking and run her over and she dies? that's called involuntary manslaughter.

is it the same as a husband who walks in on his wife getting it from some other dude and kills the dude? that might be voluntary manslaughter with mitigating circumstances.

is it the same as a real do-gooder like zimmerman trying to play neighborhood watch and taking his role a bit too far and killing an unarmed, innocent kid?

is it the same as a husband who takes out a contract to have his wife killed?

is it the same as a sociopath who sits by the side of the highway and shoots at every fifth car?

dude, i know it's tough for you to accept, but there is such a thing as reality. in reality, all of these types of crimes exist and we legislate for all of them. hate crimes exist. i can pull up dozens of examples given 10 minutes and access to google where the only reason the victim dies was because he looked too middle easterny after 9/11 or a black person just happened to be there when the killer white kids pulled up or the gay dude had the audacity to sit down at a bar and talk with a lisp and got beat.

these crimes exist and are in a category of their own. so why should we not legislate them like we do with every other type of crime?

nontheist · Dec 8, 2012

UncleBuck said:
the same as what?

a few white teens go out and look for a black person to kill. they find him, beat him, drag him behind their truck, and run him over until he is dead. what is that the same as?

is that the same as someone who is driving along and the sun glares in their eyes and they don't see the pedestrian who is walking and run her over and she dies? that's called involuntary manslaughter. This man fought in Korea has a disposition towards asians, woman is asian but had nothing to do with it. It's very hard to prove it was an accident, manslaughter just got increased to murder.

is it the same as a husband who walks in on his wife getting it from some other dude and kills the dude? that might be voluntary manslaughter with mitigating circumstances.
Man was atheist and he knew him and disliked him from day one it didn't set right with Islam.

is it the same as a real do-gooder like zimmerman trying to play neighborhood watch and taking his role a bit too far and killing an unarmed, innocent kid?
This one is speaking for itself, I wouldn't be surprised if Zimmerman gets a pass because of how bad the media is wrecking it.

is it the same as a husband who takes out a contract to have his wife killed?
Did he ever call her a bitch? Hate crime

is it the same as a sociopath who sits by the side of the highway and shoots at every fifth car?
God told him to kill infidels, hate crime

dude, i know it's tough for you to accept, but there is such a thing as reality. in reality, all of these types of crimes exist and we legislate for all of them. hate crimes exist. i can pull up dozens of examples given 10 minutes and access to google where the only reason the victim dies was because he looked too middle easterny after 9/11 or a black person just happened to be there when the killer white kids pulled up or the gay dude had the audacity to sit down at a bar and talk with a lisp and got beat.

these crimes exist and are in a category of their own. so why should we not legislate them like we do with every other type of crime?

You know what they all have in common, they're dead. So should stealing a car from a church have an increased penalty also? What about honor killings?

UncleBuck · Dec 8, 2012

nontheist said:
You know what they all have in common, they're dead. So should stealing a car from a church have an increased penalty also? What about honor killings?

dude. duuuuuuuude.

hate crime legislation already exists. show me the cases where these things (your replies in red) actually happen.

the reason why they don't happen is because hate crimes are federal, and thus insulated from the local grudges out of which such absurdity would arise.

and back to the main question: we already legislate for different types of murder based on intent and motive. people kill or hurt other people based solely on (racial/ethnic/religious/etcetera) hatred. since we already legislate for all those other types of murder, why not legislate for this type?

UncleBuck · Dec 8, 2012

is it the same as a real do-gooder like zimmerman trying to play neighborhood watch and taking his role a bit too far and killing an unarmed, innocent kid?
This one is speaking for itself, I wouldn't be surprised if Zimmerman gets a pass because of how bad the media is wrecking it.

hate to inform you, dumbfuck, but they've already looked at this one as a hate crime. even though zimm has some racial hatred in his past, they are not pursuing this one as a hate crime.

your theory is failing the reality test demonstrably.

nontheist · Dec 8, 2012

UncleBuck said:
dude. duuuuuuuude.

hate crime legislation already exists. show me the cases where these things (your replies in red) actually happen.

the reason why they don't happen is because hate crimes are federal, and thus insulated from the local grudges out of which such absurdity would arise.

and back to the main question: we already legislate for different types of murder based on intent and motive. people kill or hurt other people based solely on (racial/ethnic/religious/etcetera) hatred. since we already legislate for all those other types of murder, why not legislate for this type?

Simple answer, because it can't be done correctly. I live in a state where cultivating mj can net you life for 1 plant, yes just 1. First possession of a 1/2 or less 1k fine and a year jail or probation, second time 5k and 10years. Our judicial system isn't even remotely balanced or fair and giving them more tools to sway it either way doesn't do anyone any good.

UncleBuck · Dec 8, 2012

nontheist said:
Simple answer, because it can't be done correctly. I live in a state where cultivating mj can net you life for 1 plant, yes just 1. First possession of a 1/2 or less 1k fine and a year jail or probation, second time 5k and 10years. Our judicial system isn't even remotely balanced or fair and giving them more tools to sway it either way doesn't do anyone any good.

cannabis laws are not part of this conversation, and the judicial system will always be out of balance and unfair no matter what. that's because humans are not perfect, so our justice system will never be perfect either. those points are entirely or mostly irrelevant to the discussion of "should there be a category for hate crimes?".

zimmerman has already been looked at as a hate crime. no dice. you said that the zimm case "speaks for itself". if you stand by those words, you have refuted your own example.

tell ya what, bigot from the south. you find me some examples of hate crimes that have already been prosecuted and you show me something on par with the absurd examples you postulated earlier (the ones in red crayon).

nontheist · Dec 8, 2012

UncleBuck said:
cannabis laws are not part of this conversation, and the judicial system will always be out of balance and unfair no matter what. that's because humans are not perfect, so our justice system will never be perfect either. those points are entirely or mostly irrelevant to the discussion of "should there be a category for hate crimes?".

zimmerman has already been looked at as a hate crime. no dice. you said that the zimm case "speaks for itself". if you stand by those words, you have refuted your own example.

tell ya what, bigot from the south. you find me some examples of hate crimes that have already been prosecuted and you show me something on par with the absurd examples you postulated earlier (the ones in red crayon).

Bucky a crime is a crime adding another word to it doesn't make it any different. Murder cannot be super strong murder, or murder with rose pedals. Its just fucking stupid anyway you go at it and it leaves a large door for corruption. Just because it isn't used now (that we know of) doesn't mean it won't be. It how stupid laws are born all your doing is trying to add a crime to the same crime and guess what that racket does exist and is exploited daily.

Canna Sylvan · Dec 8, 2012

I need to pick white girls to rape the shit out of. Even though those latina girls are hot, they might think I'm a wetback hater. Those tiny mustaches are fucking sexy! Also I better burn my journal I used to rate which ones are best, I don't want any premeditation charges, I can just claim my dick got hard in an instant and the first chick I bumped into for my release was a nobody white girl. Gingers have no souls anyway, so they won't care if I get only probation. No matter how horny those latina bitches with the tiny mustaches make me, I need to go after the dime a dozen white girls. My only problem is gingers don't scream very much since they know no one gives a fuck about white girls. Oh well, those screams which turn me on a lot aren't worth hate crime penalties.

If that above were actually to happen and white girls in droves, especially gingers, would Obama say the streets need to be safe to walk down for white girls,too?

UncleBuck · Dec 8, 2012

nontheist said:
Bucky a crime is a crime adding another word to it doesn't make it any different. Murder cannot be super strong murder, or murder with rose pedals. Its just fucking stupid anyway you go at it and it leaves a large door for corruption. Just because it isn't used now (that we know of) doesn't mean it won't be. It how stupid laws are born all your doing is trying to add a crime to the same crime and guess what that racket does exist and is exploited daily.

we already label different murders different: manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter, aggravated manslaughter, murder 2, murder 1, etc.

but nice job at finding examples of misapplied hate crime legislation. :clap:

didn't you say the zimm case "speaks for itself" at how hate crimes would be misapplied? yes, you did. well guess what, bigot? they dismissed it as a hate crime already. so much for your retarded theory on things.

ginwilly · Dec 8, 2012

UncleBuck said:
we already label different murders different: manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter, aggravated manslaughter, murder 2, murder 1, etc.

exactly, that's why it's silly to break them down into murder 2 hate, murder 2 anger, murder 2 stupidity, murder 2 jealousy, murder 2 greed, murder 2 depression. How many levels of depression would you like to legislate?

You keep making an argument AGAINST hate crimes, but instead of logic you are using emotion to guide your thought process. It "feels" right when you type it out, but you are obviously not reading it.

UncleBuck · Dec 8, 2012

ginwilly said:
exactly, that's why it's silly to break them down into murder 2 hate, murder 2 anger, murder 2 stupidity, murder 2 jealousy, murder 2 greed, murder 2 depression. How many levels of depression would you like to legislate?

You keep making an argument AGAINST hate crimes, but instead of logic you are using emotion to guide your thought process. It "feels" right when you type it out, but you are obviously not reading it.

sorry, bud. some crimes are solely motivated by racial/ethnic/etcetera hatred, and they are seen as more heinous by their very nature, so we label them as such.

sorry if you do not share this thing called warm blood which is common to most humans.

spandy · Dec 8, 2012

If you kill someone on purpose, wtf does it matter what your reasons are? You can't make murder any less good/bad by labeling it with "reasons".

Fucking stupid.

UncleBuck · Dec 8, 2012

spandy said:
If you kill someone on purpose, wtf does it matter what your reasons are? You can't make murder any less good/bad by labeling it with "reasons".

Fucking stupid.

of course it matters what your reasons are. you get a different sentence if you purposely kill someone in a fit of rage after walking in to discover him banging your wife versus if you purposely kill someone in a fit of rage because they took your parking spot.

why do you make it so easy for me to disprove your simplistic world view?

Who can afford to hire a housekeeper or Nanny. I guess I can

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