What’s wrong ?

Cade_cummings

New Member
I have 3 white widow auto flower plants about 2 weeks old and some the bottom leaves are turning a yellow color and the leaves are drooping I just watered them a little bit more the temperature is 78 degrees what can I do or is everything okay ?image.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpg
 

mustbetribbin

Well-Known Member
If this was my grow I wouldn't be using LED technology just yet, and typically if using LED on seedlings you'll want to start the lights about 4-5ft above the seedlings to allow them to slowly adjust to the light, if the light has a dimmer switch it might be able to be used in closer proximity, but LED light will scorch seedling within hours of they are too close (running full output), I would start with fluorescent light if I were you, seedlings need some UV light to grow properly from the germination phase, those LED lights haven't quite caught up to basic fluorescent light as far as emitting economical amounts of UV just yet. Fluorescent is still king of UV as far $$$ goes.

While I say this fluorescent lighting is still not ideal on its own, even if mixed spectrum are used they still don't cover the full range of utilisable spectrum that our plants need for growth, this is why I choose to go with a 100% cri incandescent matched up say 1/3 incandescent to 2/3 fluorescent, even 50/50 matched up on the wattage seems to do alright, I've ran a 25w incandescent with just a 19watt 5000k bulb before with no issues, but I would have added more fluoros if I had the room in my cabinet (at the time).

Seedlings don't need high amounts of light, basically 12-15 watts per square foot is enough to keep them thriving as tiny plants, then as the weeks go onwards more wattage is used and increased accordingly, always better to supply ample lighting but most people go overboard initially.

Fluoros are good from about 3ft away, incandescent 25-40 watt can be kept around 2 ft away, but 60 watters do better closer to 3ft distance, you get the picture I'm sure just kind of go slow and adjust the light towards the plant gradually, rather than starting too close it's better to start further than you expect to be ideal, especially with 6500k fluoros and other higher Kelvin range bulb types and so forth.

My exact setup for seedlings is I run a single 24watt 4100k T5 tube setup, with just a tiny 7watt incandescent night light fixture that I rigged up, both about 22" from my plants, however this 4100k bulb is older and isn't putting out the same intensity that a new bulb would do, I'd probably go 2 1/2ft above if it were a new bulb, and then adjust from there, little tips and trick you learn along the way, nobody can really teach you exact, kind of just have to practice on your own to improve on such things, lighting adjustments and so forth, I'm sure a PAR meter would come in handy for this type of thing, I however have never used one and found my way around lighting through trial and error, and while I say this I still make lighting mistakes occasionally, but I'm still somewhat new/intermediate to indoor so I've got excuses, ha ha.

Fluorescent bulbs emit UV on their own, they don't have to be fluorescent reptile bulbs to emit the UV either, all fluorescent light started out as UV light before it strikes the phosphor coating inside the bulb causing a reaction that produces visible light after it leaves the bulb, however not all the UV is kept safely inside the bulb itself even on household fluoros they still release UV but on a much smaller scale, this is exactly what the seedlings need to harden their stems and grow thick leaves, the small amount of constant UV released prepares the seedling for its journey into its life as a plant, withholding UV light from a seedling is detrimental to the survival of that seedling and more than likely will produce an inferior adult plant with slower growth and less overall production, I've seen it occur over and over again.

My advice is to ditch the LED board and allow the seedlings about 1 months growth minimum before slowly adapting them to the LED light source, 1 hour at a time initially , break, then 2 hours, then 2hours twice a day, basically it can take about 1 week or longer to fully adapt to a new light source , so you must do slow at first, that's all I can say for certain. It certainly does take a lot of know how and patience sometimes to make gentle adaptations that lead to beneficial growth and healthier plant growth in the long run, it's all about keeping the growth steady with as few set backs as possible, this is what allows people to achieve heavier yields and faster turnover for their time and effort.

Is that a 3000k LED grow light fixture that you are using now?
 
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Mrs. Weedstein

Well-Known Member
If this was my grow I wouldn't be using LED technology just yet, and typically if using LED on seedlings you'll want to start the lights about 4-5ft above the seedlings to allow them to slowly adjust to the light, if the light has a dimmer switch it might be able to be used in closer proximity, but LED light will scorch seedling within hours of they are too close (running full output), I would start with fluorescent light if I were you, seedlings need some UV light to grow properly from the germination phase, those LED lights haven't quite caught up to basic fluorescent light as far as emitting economical amounts of UV just yet. Fluorescent is still king of UV as far $$$ goes.

While I say this fluorescent lighting is still not ideal on its own, even if mixed spectrum are used they still don't cover the full range of utilisable spectrum that our plants need for growth, this is why I choose to go with a 100% cri incandescent matched up say 1/3 incandescent to 2/3 fluorescent, even 50/50 matched up on the wattage seems to do alright, I've ran a 25w incandescent with just a 19watt 5000k bulb before with no issues, but I would have added more fluoros if I had the room in my cabinet (at the time).

Seedlings don't need high amounts of light, basically 12-15 watts per square foot is enough to keep them thriving as tiny plants, then as the weeks go onwards more wattage is used and increased accordingly, always better to supply ample lighting but most people go overboard initially.

Fluoros are good from about 3ft away, incandescent 25-40 watt can be kept around 2 ft away, but 60 watters do better closer to 3ft distance, you get the picture I'm sure just kind of go slow and adjust the light towards the plant gradually, rather than starting too close it's better to start further than you expect to be ideal, especially with 6500k fluoros and other higher Kelvin range bulb types and so forth.

My exact setup for seedling is I run a single 24watt 4100k T5 tube setup, with just a tiny 7watt incandescent night light fixture that I rigged up, both about 22" from my plants, however this 4100k bulb is older and isn't putting out the same intensity that a new bulb would do, I'd probably go 2 1/2ft above if it were a new bulb, and then adjust from there, little tips and trick you learn along the way, nobody can really teach you exact, kind of just have to practice on your own to improve on such things, lighting adjustments and so forth, I'm sure a PAR meter would come in handy for this type of thing, I however have never used one and round my way around lighting through trial and error, and while I say this I still make lighting mistakes occasionally, but I'm still somewhat new/intermediate to indoor so I've got excuses, ha ha.

Fluorescent bulbs emit UV on their own, they don't have to be fluorescent reptile bulbs to emit the UV either, all fluorescent light started out as UV light before it strikes the phosphor coating inside the bulb causing a reaction that produces visible light after it leaves the bulb, however not all the UV is kept safely inside the bulb itself even on household fluoros they still release UV but on a much smaller scale, this is exactly what the seedlings need to harden their stems and grow thick leaves, the small amount of constant UV released prepares the seedling for its journey into its life as a plant, withholding UV light from a seedling is detrimental to the survival of that seedling and more than likely will produce an inferior adult plant with slower growth and less overall production, I've seen it occur over and over again.

My advice is to ditch the LED board and allow the seedlings about 1 months growth minimum before slowly adapting them to the LED light source, 1 hour at a time initially , break, then 2 hours, then 2hours twice a day, basically it can take about 1 week or longer to fully adapt to a new light source , so you must do slow at first, that's all I can say for certain. It certainly does take a lot of know how and patience sometimes to make gentle adaptations that lead to beneficial growth and healthier plant growth in the long run, it's all about keeping the growth steady with as few set backs as possible, this is what allows people to achieve heavier yields and faster turnover for their time and effort.

Is that a 3000k LED grow light fixture that you are using now?
With all due respect, and I’m not being sarcastic, but I think it’s more likely overwatering than lights. They don’t look withered, they look like they’re drooping from too much water. I’ve had the same thing happen, watering is tougher to gauge when they’re small. I bet if he puts another day or two between waterings they’ll look better.

I’m not super experienced but I did have my plants burn under LEDs before after insufficient watering (out of town) and it looks different.

I agree with you about not overdoing it on LED intensity but he might that type of light that can switch between veg and flower. I’m down with fluoros but it seems like the LED manufacturers are getting a lot of the same effects accomplished without any real setbacks. I dunno, I’m not a shill for the LED people but I’ve been pretty happy and I’ve got several types I’m using, ranging from like $20-$200
 

.Smoke

Well-Known Member
With all due respect, and I’m not being sarcastic, but I think it’s more likely overwatering than lights. They don’t look withered, they look like they’re drooping from too much water. I’ve had the same thing happen, watering is tougher to gauge when they’re small. I bet if he puts another day or two between waterings they’ll look better.

I’m not super experienced but I did have my plants burn under LEDs before after insufficient watering (out of town) and it looks different.

I agree with you about not overdoing it on LED intensity but he might that type of light that can switch between veg and flower. I’m down with fluoros but it seems like the LED manufacturers are getting a lot of the same effects accomplished without any real setbacks. I dunno, I’m not a shill for the LED people but I’ve been pretty happy and I’ve got several types I’m using, ranging from like $20-$200
What she said.
About over watering.
Lay off for a couple days and they'll perk up.
1wk old from seed.
Jack Herer
OG Kush and
Bubblegum
All autos.
20191004_024729.jpg
 
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Weouthere

Well-Known Member
I ran an LED (only 32w) for my seedlings but I still had it as close as possible, maybe 6 inches away? Looks more like watering issues to me as well
 

mustbetribbin

Well-Known Member
@Mrs. Weedstein

I agree, the plants are definitely showing signs of over watering, leaves curling downwards and so forth, but another notion to this type of setup is that LED lights emit the least amount of heat of all other light sources so far invented, plants have never grown in such highly illuminated locations while also experiencing cool conditions and slowed evaporation and so forth that comes along with it (LED).

This is why I suggested the incandescent lighting to the grower also, it will provide a bit of a way to wick off some of that moisture that the LED is leaving behind, compared to HID and so forth, this is a way to simulate some of the benefits that an HPS offers but in a smaller and more affordable form, obviously, combined with fluorescent is what I initially suggested however, because the spectrum that Cade_cummings is using in the photos appears to be warm light, I would only suggest incandescent light if a 4000k or higher Kelvin is used in combination for seedlings or vegging, for flowering however a mixture of R/FR is ideal and stacking mixed warm light spectrum ratios could only provide benefit I would imagine, as these light ratios boost the expression of mature flowering hormones within the plant, and keep the plant on a healthy flowering cycle etc.

Anyhow I do appreciate the respectful message and it was nice to receive your response friend, thank you for your input, cheers.
 

Mrs. Weedstein

Well-Known Member
@Mrs. Weedstein

I agree, the plants are definitely showing signs of over watering, leaves curling downwards and so forth, but another notion to this type of setup is that LED lights emit the least amount of heat of all other light sources so far invented, plants have never grown in such highly illuminated locations while also experiencing cool conditions and slowed evaporation and so forth that comes along with it (LED).

This is why I suggested the incandescent lighting to the grower also, it will provide a bit of a way to wick off some of that moisture that the LED is leaving behind, compared to HID and so forth, this is a way to simulate some of the benefits that an HPS offers but in a smaller and more affordable form, obviously, combined with fluorescent is what I initially suggested however, because the spectrum that Cade_cummings is using in the photos appears to be warm light, I would only suggest incandescent light if a 4000k or higher Kelvin is used in combination for seedlings or vegging, for flowering however a mixture of R/FR is ideal and stacking mixed warm light spectrum ratios could only provide benefit I would imagine, as these light ratios boost the expression of mature flowering hormones within the plant, and keep the plant on a healthy flowering cycle etc.

Anyhow I do appreciate the respectful message and it was nice to receive your response friend, thank you for your input, cheers.
Thanks man, interestingly i totally think you’re spot on about incandescents taking care of excess moisture. It’s amazing how those old hot bulbs could do that so well, LOL. Maybe I missed your point but yea a little bit of heat would take care of it too. Those plants all look good, tho — I love that stage when every day brings something new. My favorite is when seeds are getting dark and popping out of the calyx — super gratifying. Forgot what I’m rambling about, anyway, peace bros
 

mustbetribbin

Well-Known Member
Thanks man, interestingly i totally think you’re spot on about incandescents taking care of excess moisture. It’s amazing how those old hot bulbs could do that so well, LOL. Maybe I missed your point but yea a little bit of heat would take care of it too. Those plants all look good, tho — I love that stage when every day brings something new. My favorite is when seeds are getting dark and popping out of the calyx — super gratifying. Forgot what I’m rambling about, anyway, peace bros
Yeah Man sorry that's kind of like an unsaid side point about incandescent that I sometimes forget to actually explain out entirely in that aspect about that old school bulbs, and my reasoning for bringing them up, I find them to be versatile little light sources that can be used to balance out a narrow spectrum, or as a tool for overwatering when one does make a mistake, the incandescent can provide a little extra hope for a seedling that has halted all growth due to over watering, as long as the light isn't to close it can delicately help dry up that soil medium and provide the plant with a drier soil environment and help it breathe after an accidental heavy watering, much sooner than it would without the IR that the incandescent emits, a useful tool that can sometimes be used to help a seedling pull through where other technologies will not be as ideal or efficient, plus the incandescent light can sometimes act as a probiotic form of light that can help supply adequate spectrum range necessary for the plant to adapt and complete various cycles and processes that it would have had trouble absorbing in the same way from other light sources, at least of on the scale of what a seedling requires, 15 watts worth per square foot give or take, the average person isn't going to require more than 4 sq ft of space to germinate their seeds in, 25-40watts should supplement that space just fine if other light such as fluorescent is also used, I'm a fan of this combination because of the simplicity and because it just works, kind of like not fixing something that isn't broken, that's why I continue to spread the word, lol.

It's also often unsaid that LEDs run a much cooler environment and require less frequent waterings over other lighting types, I've read on multiple occasions where people had to relearn & adjust their watering frequencies once switching to LED.

About your comment of seeds changing color and revealing which shade of green they are going to exhibit at that early stage, I enjoy that initial start of a plants life also, and I enjoy watching for any shade of color along the stem after the seedling has stood out from the dirt and begins to open it's cotyledons, that is when I look too see a shade of color, sometimes brownish/tan other times purple/redish colors appear and so forth, I get excited if I see noticeable differences in a seedling at that early age, that is for sure.

Once again, yeah Man it was nice talking with you, have a good one, peace out.
 
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