What T5 system would you recommend?

Looking at pr0fesseurs thread, there is a ton of research behind his setup. I wish I could use a badboy, my box is only 39wide and about half as deep.

bigv1976 said:

I guess I will stop responding here. All that happens is someone that knows what they are saying answers a question and then people patrol yahoo trying discredit what that person says. To make a long story short out of all the answers only 2 of us put up grow pictures to back what we were saying. lets all show our grows. When I first did that grow everyone was telling me I should switch to hps cuz u cant get good results from a T5 flowering now all of the sudden everyone is a T5 expert. show me some grows. My bet is that you brainiacs will need to patrol the internet to find yourself a T5 grow too. Good luck ATF. Im out.

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Are you trying to say that all reflectors and ballasts operate the exact same as each other? Have you performed multiple side by side comparisons between different manufacturers? How about a PAR or lumen test? So far all you have stated is that you had a successful run with an HTG system... I don't have an HTG T5 system but I've grown with HTG gear and noticed improvement when I upgraded... The HTG gear worked...just not as well - this is not to say their T5 systems are bad, just that there is a chance you would have better results trying something else. In my opinion the HTG reflectors look top notch, I assume the ballasts are cheap (HTG ballasts generally are) - regardless everyone is just trying to let the OP know that there is a difference. Cheap Home Depot T5s would not work as well as the HTG one for instance.

Always check the legitimacy of a poster - there is an easy way of doing this, click on the persons name and go through their last few posts and look at all of the threads they have started. Also keep in mind what just makes sense - if each bulb gets is own angled polished aluminum reflector with decent spacing it will work better than a reflector with straight sides, bulbs almost touching each other, and only a small strip of aluminum tape - this just makes sense.

ATFgrower: I have three racks of T-5's: Sunblaze, Vitalume and a no name I bought on line. They all work great and cost about the same. I think the important thing is that you have the right tubes in them and that you use them correctly. I use the 'blue' tubes from seed propagation through vegging and 'red' tubes to flower. Keep them close to the tops of your plants, a couple of inches, and I think you'll be happy. Make sure your fixture covers your grow because they don't light any extra area. Good luck. HSA

Thanks again everyone. It seems everyone is having some decent success with just about any T5 system. I have noticed Badboy seems to have quite a few added advantages with venting, placement, ability to fold, etc. In the long run the extra money could be well spent. I have decided on bad boy, now I just need to know what bulbs to go with.

I like the idea of the aquarium bulbs, being able to get the exact light spectrum you desire. I just think I may experiment with that later. What is the light spectrum coming from the quantum grow and bloom lamps?

Gastanker said:

Are you trying to say that all reflectors and ballasts operate the exact same as each other? Have you performed multiple side by side comparisons between different manufacturers? How about a PAR or lumen test? So far all you have stated is that you had a successful run with an HTG system... I don't have an HTG T5 system but I've grown with HTG gear and noticed improvement when I upgraded... The HTG gear worked...just not as well - this is not to say their T5 systems are bad, just that there is a chance you would have better results trying something else. In my opinion the HTG reflectors look top notch, I assume the ballasts are cheap (HTG ballasts generally are) - regardless everyone is just trying to let the OP know that there is a difference. Cheap Home Depot T5s would not work as well as the HTG one for instance.

Always check the legitimacy of a poster - there is an easy way of doing this, click on the persons name and go through their last few posts and look at all of the threads they have started. Also keep in mind what just makes sense - if each bulb gets is own angled polished aluminum reflector with decent spacing it will work better than a reflector with straight sides, bulbs almost touching each other, and only a small strip of aluminum tape - this just makes sense.

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Can you tell me what lumen and par tests have to do with the T5 fixture you buy? Last I knew those were both dependaent on the bulbs being used. I guess another way to check the legitimacy of a poster is to read what they write and see if it makes sense or if they are using big terms to try to sound smart just for the sake of argument. I again invite you all that are arguing with me to put up pics of your T5 grows that you have done since you are so knowledgable about T5 lights. I put mine up.

Just cuz I like to take pictures ....@42 days

bigv1976 said:

Can you tell me what lumen and par tests have to do with the T5 fixture you buy? Last I knew those were both dependaent on the bulbs being used. I guess another way to check the legitimacy of a poster is to read what they write and see if it makes sense or if they are using big terms to try to sound smart just for the sake of argument. I again invite you all that are arguing with me to put up pics of your T5 grows that you have done since you are so knowledgable about T5 lights. I put mine up.

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If you run the same bulb in two different T5 fixtures and one has twice the PAR as another - then one is twice as efficient. Pretty simple...

You are right - I don't have a pure T5 marijuana grow to show. I use T5s, I've grown several times with CFLs, I have friends that grow with T5s, and I'm big into aquariums where most of the T5 technology comes from, but I do not myself flower with just T5s.
If it counts for anything -

388w CFL setup yielding 1oz a week:

800w CFL SCROG:



On of my planted aquariums:

[video=youtube;nIysWfTOT_A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIysWfTOT_A[/video]

But what it really all comes down to is very simple - If you run the same bulb in two different T5 fixtures and one has twice the PAR or lumen as another - then one is twice as efficient. Pretty simple...

This can be due to bulb placement in regard to reflector, to the reflector design, bulbs being too near eachother, ballasts delivering too much or too little power, temperature... Hell temperature alone is huge - fluorescent tubes run at peak performance at 77 degrees and loose 1% efficiency every two degrees you increase the temperature. A poorly designed light with hot ballasts near the bulbs is not nearly efficient as a cooler running light.

To argue that all ballasts and reflector are the same is just silly.

Par and lumens are determined by the bulbs dude. Why is that so hard to sink in. You are arguing just to argue. You dont know what you are talking about. I dont care about your Google info on peak performance temps and all that. Youre wrong. Live with it.

And furthermore I have never seen a T5 ballast that runs hot in the first place.

bigv1976 said:

Par and lumens are determined by the bulbs dude. Why is that so hard to sink in. You are arguing just to argue. You dont know what you are talking about. I dont care about your Google info on peak performance temps and all that. Youre wrong. Live with it.

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Bulb X puts off a given amount of light in a given spectrum. This amount of light can be measured in foot candles, Lux, Lumen, mm of PAR...

If bulb X is placed in reflector A and measures 1200 whatever, mm of PAR, Lumen, ft candles then at the measured distance the measuring devise/plant is receiving that amount of energy.

Now you put bulb X (the same bulb) into reflector B and at the same distance you have a measure of 2400. Reflector B is getting twice the light energy to the measuring devise.

You can measure light energy - I don't know why you would argue this. PAR is a measure of light energy as plants see it and Lumen is a measure of light energy as humans see it - they are both applicable in testing reflectors as the reflectors themselves cannot alter the spectrum, just the distribution.

Would a bare 1000w bulb illuminate a barn wall 100' away as well as a 1000w bulb in a tight parabolic reflector (spotlight)? No... Same amount of lumen/PAR (if it's the same ballast), but a different amount of light gets to the destination. It's really simple - stop confusing yourself with complicated words.

bigv1976 said:

And furthermore I have never seen a T5 ballast that runs hot in the first place.

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How many T5 fixtures have you used?

Are you really trying to argue that reflectors don't matter? Or that all reflectors are the same? Are all electrical components identical? Really?

If you say so.

Don't take my word for it. Read read read read read. Heres an article comparing 4 very similar square HID reflectors - look at the chart and you'll be amazed at how much they differ; T5 reflectors are the exact same.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/3/aafeature
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/1/review

Gastanker said:

Bulb X puts off a given amount of light in a given spectrum. This amount of light can be measured in foot candles, Lux, Lumen, mm of PAR...

If bulb X is placed in reflector A and measures 1200 whatever, mm of PAR, Lumen, ft candles then at the measured distance the measuring devise/plant is receiving that amount of energy.

Now you put bulb X (the same bulb) into reflector B and at the same distance you have a measure of 2400. Reflector B is getting twice the light energy to the measuring devise.

You can measure light energy - I don't know why you would argue this. PAR is a measure of light energy as plants see it and Lumen is a measure of light energy as humans see it - they are both applicable in testing reflectors as the reflectors themselves cannot alter the spectrum, just the distribution.

Would a bare 1000w bulb illuminate a barn wall 100' away as well as a 1000w bulb in a tight parabolic reflector (spotlight)? No... Same amount of lumen/PAR (if it's the same ballast), but a different amount of light gets to the destination. It's really simple - stop confusing yourself with complicated words.



How many T5 fixtures have you used?

Are you really trying to argue that reflectors don't matter? Or that all reflectors are the same? Are all electrical components identical? Really?

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My thread explains all of these facts to people you CANT measure a bulbs effectiveness in LUMENS its impossible... plants dont use lumens they use light OUTSIDE of our visual spectrum. PAR is the way to measure bulbs, ALL bulbs.... when you measure some bulbs for example UVL super actinic is 100% PAR and 97%PUR Percent of USABLE light....

you want to seee pics ill show you pics !!! i have the most complete thread on par and T5 light here period. My ballast and lights were chosen because all ballasts ARE NOT the same. measured luminosity from my ballasts actually outperform other ballasts hands down. along with prewarming start and dimmable options leave other ballasts in the dust. My lights are in NO way similar to ANY t5 setup used here besides the users in my group.. we have side by sides of 485W vs 1000W and guess whos the winner hands down? ill tell you its not the HID.. it really is ALL about the PAR you achieve with your lights.. and mine are ~90-100% HID is about 30% PAR...i have posted scientific studies done by oxford and berkley showing how this method works and the science to back it up. To merely brush off science and the scientific method is sheer ignorance...
Good for you gastanker for knowing the truth on how plants work and showing other the errors of their propaganda with HID.

pr0fesseur said:

My thread explains all of these facts to people you CANT measure a bulbs effectiveness in LUMENS its impossible... plants dont use lumens they use light OUTSIDE of our visual spectrum. PAR is the way to measure bulbs, ALL bulbs.... when you measure some bulbs for example UVL super actinic is 100% PAR and 97%PUR Percent of USABLE light....

you want to seee pics ill show you pics !!! i have the most complete thread on par and T5 light here period. My ballast and lights were chosen because all ballasts ARE NOT the same. measured luminosity from my ballasts actually outperform other ballasts hands down. along with prewarming start and dimmable options leave other ballasts in the dust. My lights are in NO way similar to ANY t5 setup used here besides the users in my group.. we have side by sides of 485W vs 1000W and guess whos the winner hands down? ill tell you its not the HID.. it really is ALL about the PAR you achieve with your lights.. and mine are ~90-100% HID is about 30% PAR...i have posted scientific studies done by oxford and berkley showing how this method works and the science to back it up. To merely brush off science and the scientific method is sheer ignorance...
Good for you gastanker for knowing the truth on how plants work and showing other the errors of their propaganda with HID.

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Did you see this? http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/3/review

Keep in mind PUR is adjusted PAR based on the specific plant - in this case the algae beneficial to coral (very very different PUR values than marijuana). The super actinics are by far the highest PUR, but by far the lowest PAR. Thought it might interest you.

Gastanker said:

Did you see this? http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/3/review

Keep in mind PUR is adjusted PAR based on the specific plant - in this case the algae beneficial to coral (very very different PUR values than marijuana). The super actinics are by far the highest PUR, but by far the lowest PAR. Thought it might interest you.

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I have posted this in my forum a while back and yes i have seen it you should come check out and sub+ my thread! super actinics have low par because the represent a small percent of the active spectral chart.. but are completely usable.. i have a large collection of spectral charts and have had them adjusted by a member in matlab to show the total spectrum of all bulbs compared.

there is an amazing one on ebay. They are used but tested and fully working. Amazon has them listed for 250. hes got them for 150shipped 8bulb and 40000lumens higher then a 400w mh bulb plus you can keep it closer for veg. My friend got 6500k and 2700 or 3000k for flower. I know he had some problems with them placing them as close as 2 inchs. 6 inchs is perfect for them. Im not sure about flowering under them but ill know soon he just started flowering a little bit ago.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/250892932059?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_1722wt_1116

I recently bought a 4 ft. 8 bulb Maxilume by C.A.P. w/ their 2800k bulbs. I have a Sour Diesel that I supercropped 3 times and now have about 30 tops that are the size of a golf ball or bigger and are rock hard. I keep the light 3-5 inches from the tops. I got a decent price at my grow shop, $230 w/bulbs. Hope this helps...
Peace, jethead
p.s. Those buds still have 4 weeks to go.

I vote for the HTG PL-55 tek lamp. The PL-55 bulbs are awesome they put out 5,000 lumens each and the fixtures are the best out there IMO. The fixture is all aluminum then the inside is polished (not painted, planted, etc.) It comes in both 2 lamp and 4 lamp fixtures. Hope this helps.

RNmed4200 said:

there is an amazing one on ebay. They are used but tested and fully working. Amazon has them listed for 250. hes got them for 150shipped 8bulb and 40000lumens higher then a 400w mh bulb plus you can keep it closer for veg. My friend got 6500k and 2700 or 3000k for flower. I know he had some problems with them placing them as close as 2 inchs. 6 inchs is perfect for them. Im not sure about flowering under them but ill know soon he just started flowering a little bit ago.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/250892932059?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_1722wt_1116

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My forum shows just how well T5 can flower using the right Lamps, not the "grow" "bloom" kind
one of our members is growing 1000W vs 400W t5 ill let you see which one is winning

Silversun said:

I vote for the HTG PL-55 tek lamp. The PL-55 bulbs are awesome they put out 5,000 lumens each and the fixtures are the best out there IMO. The fixture is all aluminum then the inside is polished (not painted, planted, etc.) It comes in both 2 lamp and 4 lamp fixtures. Hope this helps.

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Its not about lumens.... plants dont see lumens.. read the definition of a lumen.. youll understand.
i could have 10k lumens @ 520nm & 1k lumens@660nm the 660 would win hands down....
its about the PAR&PUR you provide to plants. not lumens thats what the HUMAN EYE SEES...