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PadawanBater
Guest
Exactly, the stuff that makes up "my reality" or "your reality" is irrelevant to what actually is reality. The stuff that we can prove is what is reality.How do you figure reality isn't subjective? I'd say that reality is very subjective. To say reality isn't subjective seems to me to be a typical arrogant human statement. The only thing each of us has to go on is our own perceptions which creates our individual realities. This, of course, is one of those things which can't really be proven or disproven and thus makes the subject moot.
CrackerJax
New Member
What is a soul?
Hmmm.... a soul is the culmination of man's wishful thinking. It's the get out of jail card we slip ourselves "hoping" it will be honored.
Hmmm.... a soul is the culmination of man's wishful thinking. It's the get out of jail card we slip ourselves "hoping" it will be honored.
sarah22
Well-Known Member
you have no idea how AWESOME it is that someone else has experienced these things too. i actively alter my reality at will all the time. the only time i find myself unable to alter reality by sheer will is if im ill, or very tired. but if im neither of those...its easy peasy lol. i've sighted a craft, i've seen and experienced paranormal occurrences, i've had more "psychic" experiences than i can count...i've probably had at least 1000 premonitions (im counting as far back as i can remember. the number could be higher, i've been working at this for years) of future events come true. and most of them are very very small things (knowing when someone is going to call, knowing what others are thinking, knowing when bad things are about to happen, etc)...but im still making accurate predictions. i think that essentially the reason you and i experience these things is because we allow ourselves to. we're open to the possibilities, and obviously we pay close attention. i think that most people have these experiences too...they just maybe dont take as much notice to them, or they just brush them off. i find that people who are able to "tap into" the universe and the energies within...are able to experience things that are not on a physical level. and everyone is able to do that...just that some people choose not to. its ok though..it makes a cool parlour trick when you can make predictions, and will things to happen lol. my close friends have experienced these things with me too. my best friend just doesnt even pay attention anymore, shes just used to "weird shit always happening around sarah" haha.
sarah22
Well-Known Member
thats an interesting way of looking at it. but thats assuming that all science is right. and while im a firm believer in sciences being hugely helpful, we make too many assumptions. what if one day down the road we learn new things about science that completely change the way sciences are viewed and used? will people be open to that? or will they say...your science is wrong and my science is right? its ALL subjective and open to interpretation.
people (not trying to be rude, but particularly atheists) tend to cling to science as its the 100% fool proof way to explain the whole universe. but people are assuming that science is always true, always correct and its never wrong...which just simply isnt the case. you're putting your faith in science just as strongly as people put their faith in god. and i can understand why its better for some to do that, because its physical, and its measurable, etc. but im saying...what if the sciences that we have now...are wrong? or they cant fully explain everything? i just cant see how its useful to put all my eggs in one basket so to speak.
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PadawanBater
Guest
thats an interesting way of looking at it. but thats assuming that all science is right. and while im a firm believer in sciences being hugely helpful, we make too many assumptions. what if one day down the road we learn new things about science that completely change the way sciences are viewed and used? will people be open to that? or will they say...your science is wrong and my science is right? its ALL subjective and open to interpretation.
people (not trying to be rude, but particularly atheists) tend to cling to science as its the 100% fool proof way to explain the whole universe. but people are assuming that science is always true, always correct and its never wrong...which just simply isnt the case. you're putting your faith in science just as strongly as people put their faith in god. and i can understand why its better for some to do that, because its physical, and its measurable, etc. but im saying...what if the sciences that we have now...are wrong? or they cant fully explain everything? i just cant see how its useful to put all my eggs in one basket so to speak.
Look, what you are proposing is simply not possible. The scientific method prevents it from happening. Things that are wrong do not get passed on as credible science, and if they do, it's extremely short lived and somebody figures it out really fast.
People who use this argument bring up stuff like the Earth being flat - "scientists were wrong when they thought the Earth was flat, they could be wrong now!" - it was not the scientists who thought the Earth was flat... it was the regular joe's walking around without any background in science at all... then the actual scientists came along, ran some tests, and figured out that the Earth is round.
Same thing with the Earth being the center of the universe, except the church was so reluctant to accept that, they tried and convicted Gallelio for heresy.
That is how it always is. The scientists figure the stuff out. You're worried about stuff that might be wrong getting passed off as stuff we think is right? Like I said, impossible. If you disagree, give me some examples.
Science doesn't rely on faith. You might be putting your faith into some scientists when you take their word for the work they've done because you can't actually physically verify it, but that can all be, and is, corroborated and verified amongst the community, that's why it exists, that's why we have international science academies. There are thousands of scientists all competing against each other and trust me, if someone makes a mistake, it's the scientists who point it out.
Mr.KushMan
Well-Known Member
Science is always wrong! Didn't you know that? Of course you did!
Yes, science can never be truly correct because of course experience is ineffable. To try and define experience is a practice in futility. Water is no more a liquid, than it is wasser, no more than it is h2o, but of course there is one truth, be it sophists or a scientists. I am well aware of the kind of experiences you are talking about with respect to dreaming and mortal intuition but these things happen to everyone and there are nuances in theory that allow these experiences, such as quantum entanglement, the measurement problem, wave particle duality, the Zeno effect and Schrödinger uncertainty principal. It seems you are still to accept the high school versions of science which really don't apply in this age.
To just discredit science is wrong just as much as it is wrong to completely discredit your experiences, allowing you aren't fabricating a small portion. I think at best we are skilled presenters and we should treat each other that way.
Peace
Yes, science can never be truly correct because of course experience is ineffable. To try and define experience is a practice in futility. Water is no more a liquid, than it is wasser, no more than it is h2o, but of course there is one truth, be it sophists or a scientists. I am well aware of the kind of experiences you are talking about with respect to dreaming and mortal intuition but these things happen to everyone and there are nuances in theory that allow these experiences, such as quantum entanglement, the measurement problem, wave particle duality, the Zeno effect and Schrödinger uncertainty principal. It seems you are still to accept the high school versions of science which really don't apply in this age.
To just discredit science is wrong just as much as it is wrong to completely discredit your experiences, allowing you aren't fabricating a small portion. I think at best we are skilled presenters and we should treat each other that way.
Peace
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PadawanBater
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sarah22
Well-Known Member
i agree with this post. i know that science proves many things, and has been an incredibly helpful resource for us to use as a species. i plan to become a scientist. but thinking that something has to be able to be scientifically proved in order to exist is really a small minded way of thinking. and i agree that high school sciences arent as applicable in this age as they have been in the past. science is constantly growing and changing and improving all the time. so instead of simply clinging on to old ways...that certainly worked in the past...im ready to keep evolving and changing myself and my stance on things like science and spirituality, so that i can stay current and up to date with the times. its important to give personal experiences credit as well. they're a big part of the picture. to simply discard personal experiences is rather silly...thats probably how most sciences are created....through personal experiences and other ideological theories.
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PadawanBater
Guest
This statement doesn't make any sense to me.
How could something exist if it was not proven to exist in the first place?
PeachOibleBoiblePeach#1
Well-Known Member
Right on man
,,That's the way I see it
CrackerJax
New Member
How can something be proven to exist when it doesn't? Fits exactly the same.....
The belief in a soul is based on absolutely .... nothing.
Wishful thinking. Desperate thinking.
The belief in a soul is based on absolutely .... nothing.
Wishful thinking. Desperate thinking.
sarah22
Well-Known Member
im sure that lots of things exist that we have no proof of. considering we've still not discovered every little thing about this planet alone, and then take into consideration all the other planets out there...possibilities are endless. but when you take the stance that the only things that are real are the things we've been able to prove...you limit yourself and your view of the world.
Mr.KushMan
Well-Known Member
But Sarah I think what he is saying, with out speaking for him of course, is that to say you know about something that one couldn't know based on how he understands the world, a scientific, and you are trying to describe something that can't really be described.
Which I think says alot about religion and spirituality. That if you think you know something, keep your mouth shut and you might be right.
Peace
EDIT: Oh, just a couple of brain ticks. I read back and someone said something about researching all the pseudosciences and now are able to believe in a spirit or soul. Well I just have to say that if you look for anything for long enough eventually you can find a rule to make it fit, it is the cornerstone of psychiatric delusion.
Which I think says alot about religion and spirituality. That if you think you know something, keep your mouth shut and you might be right.
Peace
EDIT: Oh, just a couple of brain ticks. I read back and someone said something about researching all the pseudosciences and now are able to believe in a spirit or soul. Well I just have to say that if you look for anything for long enough eventually you can find a rule to make it fit, it is the cornerstone of psychiatric delusion.
sarah22
Well-Known Member
i thought this was interesting...on how someone wanted proof of science being proved wrong...lol. perhaps this is a start? the title of the article says "The first test that proves general theory of relativity wrong" its a good article and an interesting outcome of experiment...
http://refreshingnews9.blogspot.com/2010/02/first-test-that-proves-general-theory.html
im just saying...science is a great resource...but its constantly changing. we cant just simply rely on current sciences all the time.
and thank you MrKushMan. i'll learn to shut my mouth. i hate arguing with people, especially about something that people will never agree on. but i think that what i attempted to do was encourage people to think outside the box so to speak...but im going to start minding my own business. changing my way of thinking from being in one extreme to having balance has improved my life significantly and i had hoped that i could maybe help others do the same. i thought that everyone could benefit from balance but im clearly wrong. and i apologize for my arguments in this thread. i have no business trying to tell anyone else anything.
http://refreshingnews9.blogspot.com/2010/02/first-test-that-proves-general-theory.html
im just saying...science is a great resource...but its constantly changing. we cant just simply rely on current sciences all the time.
and thank you MrKushMan. i'll learn to shut my mouth. i hate arguing with people, especially about something that people will never agree on. but i think that what i attempted to do was encourage people to think outside the box so to speak...but im going to start minding my own business. changing my way of thinking from being in one extreme to having balance has improved my life significantly and i had hoped that i could maybe help others do the same. i thought that everyone could benefit from balance but im clearly wrong. and i apologize for my arguments in this thread. i have no business trying to tell anyone else anything.
CrackerJax
New Member
Science is constantly changing because science constantly CHECKS itself for accuracy. That is a polar OPPOSITE of religion. Religion assumes a conclusion and then works backwards to make it fit. Which of course doesn't work at all.
Luckily there is a catch all carny phrase to keep the sheeple on board.... no proof is needed...it's an act of faith. Except that faith is based on .... nothing.
Luckily there is a catch all carny phrase to keep the sheeple on board.... no proof is needed...it's an act of faith. Except that faith is based on .... nothing.
morgentaler
Well-Known Member
but but but.... we KNOW there's a soul because we just... we just KNOW....
Now imagine if Einstein tried to explain relativity that way.
Now imagine if Einstein tried to explain relativity that way.
Mr.KushMan
Well-Known Member
Of course a soul in the ideological sense doesn't exist but the idea about there being an OTHER, or a continuation of sensation after the body dies is a real possibility.
I mean what if reality is just a blanket, and the light you see coming through the blanket, projects things that exist but merely on a different dimensional percept. Or if when you die your brain or mind pulls itself, or a portion, through the fabric of reality as if squeezing though a membrane due to osmotic pressure.
Peace
I mean what if reality is just a blanket, and the light you see coming through the blanket, projects things that exist but merely on a different dimensional percept. Or if when you die your brain or mind pulls itself, or a portion, through the fabric of reality as if squeezing though a membrane due to osmotic pressure.
Peace
CrackerJax
New Member
What if...possibility...ideology... those are the tip off words that you're into superstition and supposition.
Time travel is possible. Is it probable? Absolutely not.
Time travel is possible. Is it probable? Absolutely not.
Mr.KushMan
Well-Known Member
But thats where your wrong, if the standard model of elementary particle physics has taught us anything its that we need to suspend our beliefs on what is possible, and instead ask why the environment is showing us what it is.
Your example of time travel not being probable, however possible. I agree completely, but once again have some subtle details, for instance based on the many world interpretation every possible quantum state of the universe exists simultaneously meaning if one were able to travel to these other universes you would in fact be able to time travel. But escaping this universe is where your problems lie.
If QED has shown us the basic building blocks of reality, then self prophecy is one of the most important constituents of life.
I mean based on the fact that the world is unknowable, and by studying the nature of the reality I reside in I can determine that Intention Theory exists, then by proof though contradiction the universe is in fact a solipsism.
As well you saying that its not possible is just as credible as me saying it is possible, and based on reiteration dynamics nature is reflected in intuition.
Peace
Your example of time travel not being probable, however possible. I agree completely, but once again have some subtle details, for instance based on the many world interpretation every possible quantum state of the universe exists simultaneously meaning if one were able to travel to these other universes you would in fact be able to time travel. But escaping this universe is where your problems lie.
If QED has shown us the basic building blocks of reality, then self prophecy is one of the most important constituents of life.
I mean based on the fact that the world is unknowable, and by studying the nature of the reality I reside in I can determine that Intention Theory exists, then by proof though contradiction the universe is in fact a solipsism.
As well you saying that its not possible is just as credible as me saying it is possible, and based on reiteration dynamics nature is reflected in intuition.
Peace
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