What Could I be Doing Wrong

tinkywinky · Oct 23, 2015

Hello,

I seem to be having a bit of a problem and was hoping someone could offer suggestions on where I could be going wrong.

Set-up,
4'x2' Tent.
mars hydro led light actual draw 200 watts. (18 on 6 off)
2 x air pumps one in one out, out has carbon scrubber on it. (set on 15 minute on, 15 off timer cycle)
450w oil radiator (small and away from grow pot) (temp sensor plug that keeps room at 27deg).
Grow pot is 15 letre smart pot. (soil mix 4 scoops potting soil, 1 scoop perlite, 1 scoop verm. 4,1,1 mix to top).
30cm Towerfan on constant.

My temps seem to be stable around the 27degree mark according to my thermomitor that logs readings. My soil moisture/ph is good, I cranked the light high up as to not shock the seeds (but I have tried it lower with the same result). Air circulation is ok and plenty for a seed.

So I have germinated a fair few (approx 10/15) seeds now using the paper towwel ziplock bag method and have had fairly good success with getting the tap to pop but as soon as I plant the seeds they just do nothing, and I mean nothing. I have tried putting a bottle over the top with spray mist in it to keep the condensation up, I have tried it without, I have tried a smaller pot (auto's so from the research I had done it is recommended to put straight into final pot, but I tried smaller anyhows). But no joy, to date I have become a master terminator of germinated seeds

.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, maybe I am doing something wrong that is obvious to a more experienced grower. It is starting to depress me now as I can grow pretty much anything edible without issue.

Hydrotech364 · Oct 23, 2015

What is the lights timer setting again?

nomoresnow · Oct 23, 2015

Have you tried planting a seed right in the soil or maybe a rapid rooter/jiffy pellet? Maybe the universe doesn't want you to be a paper towel grower. I have never tried the paper towel thing except in 4th grade science class so can't offer any help there.

tinkywinky · Oct 23, 2015

Hi Hydro, updated it above thanks for pointing it out, these girls are not even breaking the surface though with leaves.

Lo Budget · Oct 23, 2015

I soak first, but that's a matter of preference. Have you tried planting straight into soil? I've never used the pt method, is it possible the roots are getting damaged when removing? Idk, just throwing stuff out there. You can obviously grow other plants w/o issue, how do you plant those?

tinkywinky · Oct 23, 2015

nomoresnow said:
Have you tried planting a seed right in the soil or maybe a rapid rooter/jiffy pellet? Maybe the universe doesn't want you to be a paper towel grower. I have never tried the paper towel thing except in 4th grade science class so can't offer any help there.

I was starting to think this, my next will be just straight from seed but its the time/grow pot ratio

tinkywinky · Oct 23, 2015

Lo Budget said:
I soak first, but that's a matter of preference. Have you tried planting straight into soil? I've never used the pt method, is it possible the roots are getting damaged when removing? Idk, just throwing stuff out there. You can obviously grow other plants w/o issue, how do you plant those?

Hi thanks for the response, I was wondering if it was a case of fat fingers damaging the root but after being extra extra careful I dont think it is that. This was the thing with the light aswell I wasnt sure if I was shocking the tap but I tried everything from right above to top of tent to in dark for 6 hours after planting.

Its my first time planting using this method I usually just use a propagation tray from seed then plant.

Lo Budget · Oct 23, 2015

It is puzzling they don't even break the surface. At 80F they should be jammin. I can't usually get mine that warm as seeds, I need the lights on to get temps up. I keep mine out of the light until they pop, but I can't imagine it makes that much difference since they are buried anyway.

Labs Dexter · Oct 23, 2015

I had that issue mate just bad batch of seeds
All that grew for me were afghani freebie luckily they are females.
I have aelectric propagater too.
Get more and keep trying

noysy · Oct 23, 2015

I just had trouble with a barneys farm seed. In the end I cracked a part of the outer shell off and boom, germinated.

vostok · Oct 23, 2015

tinkywinky said:
Hello,

I seem to be having a bit of a problem and was hoping someone could offer suggestions on where I could be going wrong.

Set-up,
4'x2' Tent.
mars hydro led light actual draw 200 watts. (18 on 6 off)
2 x air pumps one in one out, out has carbon scrubber on it. (set on 15 minute on, 15 off timer cycle)
450w oil radiator (small and away from grow pot) (temp sensor plug that keeps room at 27deg).
Grow pot is 15 letre smart pot. (soil mix 4 scoops potting soil, 1 scoop perlite, 1 scoop verm. 4,1,1 mix to top).
30cm Towerfan on constant.

My temps seem to be stable around the 27degree mark according to my thermomitor that logs readings. My soil moisture/ph is good, I cranked the light high up as to not shock the seeds (but I have tried it lower with the same result). Air circulation is ok and plenty for a seed.

So I have germinated a fair few (approx 10/15) seeds now using the paper towwel ziplock bag method and have had fairly good success with getting the tap to pop but as soon as I plant the seeds they just do nothing, and I mean nothing. I have tried putting a bottle over the top with spray mist in it to keep the condensation up, I have tried it without, I have tried a smaller pot (auto's so from the research I had done it is recommended to put straight into final pot, but I tried smaller anyhows). But no joy, to date I have become a master terminator of germinated seeds .

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, maybe I am doing something wrong that is obvious to a more experienced grower. It is starting to depress me now as I can grow pretty much anything edible without issue.

We all have this at some stage in our grow careers ..

it sounds to me you may have heat fluctuations or even not enough heat, but before I can commit to that,

you have to look at your seed storage, or if not you then the place where you got them seeds

Do you scarify your seeds often I do, and yeah it happens in the real world too,

I just got a pack of Brains Mango of the 10 ..1 germed but it won't make it, I'll try ...but...??

to my blog on a germing article https://www.rollitup.org/Journal/Entry/germination-101.31319/

Budzbuddha · Oct 23, 2015

There is a shitload of methods ( each grower has their fav ) but for me this method has produced 100% for me. It not new but have had better success than peat pellet , straight planting or unicorn piss.

1. Use a small amount of bottled water ( 1" deep ) - " anymore is a waste " . Let it float for 24 hours to no more than 48 hours. It may finally sink by then , if not GENTLY tap seed to sink it. ( it has to become fully saturated to sink ).

2. After said time , it may show a split or very little tip. If it cracked , I place in a PLAIN napkin or paper towel ( with no fragrance ) just a basic white paper towel. And place inside two " paper plates " , I prefer these STYROFOAM snack trays from 99¢ store. They don't wick moisture into itself like " paper plates and KEEPS moisten towels damp longer without drying out too fast. Secure with rubber band.

3. I put on shelf or bottom of drawer til taproot is growing out. DONT BE IN A RUSH TO PLANT IT ( I don't plant germed seed UNTIL taproot is well grown. ) IT WILL BE FINE as LONG AS KEPT DAMP. Wait another 12/24 hours and taproot will be long enough to place carefully into container.

Container :
You can pop into SOLO or smaller containers to START GROWTH in your medium ( soil ) of your choice. Out of package most premium soils have an adequate moisture to start growth with out adding more water. Judge your choice of mix.

I always try to keep transplanting to a minimum so ( for me ) I now grow right into final pot.
I " condition " my grow pot PRIOR to adding germed seed. I prepare the pot with the medium , perlite or supplements before seed. I mist soil with PH water BETWEEN layers of soil.

EXAMPLE - add bottom layer ( few inches thick depending on pot size )
Mist lightly ( damp ) ADD another few inches of soil ( mist ) THEN ADD FINAL TOP LAYER . COVER with plastic wrap. This will humidify soil. ( you can prep like this days in advance .

Note : after planting , you can place plastic wrap back over seed until sprouted .

I want a very light moist soil and will leave it alone for up to 2 days before seed goes in. You can also do a SUPERSOIL bottom layer ( lower 1/3 of container ) ( misted ) then topped with remaining premium soil or seedling mix.

There are so many ways to do this , but this to me is simple :peace:

tyke1973 · Oct 23, 2015

Fill a small pot with soil plant the split seed with the tap root facing down,put them about 1 1/2 cm below the surface of the soil.
Don't plant them too deep,wet the soil before you add the seed,after that place under a light have the light about 1 ft of the tops
of the pots if its warm then higher it,light height does not matter yet,then leave them alone don't mess with them just let them do
what they want to do they will come through just do not fuss over them they will pop when there ready,has soon has they do feed
with a very light feed,but not un till you see the leaf blades,

tinkywinky · Oct 24, 2015

vostok said:
We all have this at some stage in our grow careers ..

it sounds to me you may have heat fluctuations or even not enough heat, but before I can commit to that,

you have to look at your seed storage, or if not you then the place where you got them seeds

Do you scarify your seeds often I do, and yeah it happens in the real world too,

I just got a pack of Brains Mango of the 10 ..1 germed but it won't make it, I'll try ...but...??

to my blog on a germing article https://www.rollitup.org/Journal/Entry/germination-101.31319/

Thanks for the response, the heat fluctuations might be an issue as the fans run for 15 mins every 15 mins, according to my temp taker the fluctuations are not that much but I suppose I could have just been unlucky as it is set to take it every fifteen minutes also. I will change it to take it every minute for a couple of days and see if the fluctuations are actually a lot more than I thought.

I have tried the scarring method but didnt have any joy either. I will check out your guide, thanks.

budman111 · Oct 24, 2015

tinkywinky said:
have had fairly good success with getting the tap to pop but as soon as I plant the seeds they just do nothing

When you see them 'pop' leave them to get a bigger tap root , 10-20 hours more as I can guarantee you are planting them to soon.

tinkywinky · Oct 24, 2015

Budzbuddha said:
There is a shitload of methods ( each grower has their fav ) but for me this method has produced 100% for me. It not new but have had better success than peat pellet , straight planting or unicorn piss.

1. Use a small amount of bottled water ( 1" deep ) - " anymore is a waste " . Let it float for 24 hours to no more than 48 hours. It may finally sink by then , if not GENTLY tap seed to sink it. ( it has to become fully saturated to sink ).

2. After said time , it may show a split or very little tip. If it cracked , I place in a PLAIN napkin or paper towel ( with no fragrance ) just a basic white paper towel. And place inside two " paper plates " , I prefer these STYROFOAM snack trays from 99¢ store. They don't wick moisture into itself like " paper plates and KEEPS moisten towels damp longer without drying out too fast. Secure with rubber band.

3. I put on shelf or bottom of drawer til taproot is growing out. DONT BE IN A RUSH TO PLANT IT ( I don't plant germed seed UNTIL taproot is well grown. ) IT WILL BE FINE as LONG AS KEPT DAMP. Wait another 12/24 hours and taproot will be long enough to place carefully into container.

Container :
You can pop into SOLO or smaller containers to START GROWTH in your medium ( soil ) of your choice. Out of package most premium soils have an adequate moisture to start growth with out adding more water. Judge your choice of mix.

I always try to keep transplanting to a minimum so ( for me ) I now grow right into final pot.
I " condition " my grow pot PRIOR to adding germed seed. I prepare the pot with the medium , perlite or supplements before seed. I mist soil with PH water BETWEEN layers of soil.

EXAMPLE - add bottom layer ( few inches thick depending on pot size )
Mist lightly ( damp ) ADD another few inches of soil ( mist ) THEN ADD FINAL TOP LAYER . COVER with plastic wrap. This will humidify soil. ( you can prep like this days in advance .

Note : after planting , you can place plastic wrap back over seed until sprouted .

I want a very light moist soil and will leave it alone for up to 2 days before seed goes in. You can also do a SUPERSOIL bottom layer ( lower 1/3 of container ) ( misted ) then topped with remaining premium soil or seedling mix.

There are so many ways to do this , but this to me is simple

View attachment 3527058 View attachment 3527059 View attachment 3527061 View attachment 3527062

Thanks for the tips.

tinkywinky · Oct 24, 2015

tyke1973 said:
Fill a small pot with soil plant the split seed with the tap root facing down,put them about 1 1/2 cm below the surface of the soil.
Don't plant them too deep,wet the soil before you add the seed,after that place under a light have the light about 1 ft of the tops
of the pots if its warm then higher it,light height does not matter yet,then leave them alone don't mess with them just let them do
what they want to do they will come through just do not fuss over them they will pop when there ready,has soon has they do feed
with a very light feed,but not un till you see the leaf blades,

Thanks for the response, I think I will try a couple straigt in a small pot with clingfilm over the top on a heat mat.

tinkywinky · Oct 24, 2015

budman111 said:
When you see them 'pop' leave them to get a bigger tap root , 10-20 hours more as I can guarantee you are planting them to soon.

Now this is one thing I thought as my taps dont seem to get anywhere near what others are getting in the pictures even when I leave them for a bit longer, thanks.

tinkywinky · Oct 24, 2015

Thanks everyone for the tips, I will try a few changes and see how I get on. I guess another batch of seeds from a different source wouldnt hurt either, the ones I have are from a shop so could have been there for 5 years already.

Anyone got a reliable source with good prices?, I have been checking out greenhouse seeds in the dam.

Labs Dexter · Oct 24, 2015

I use herbies for seeds they are good not sure bout your area but if ordered from UK its two days later delivery.
seeds from them I failed and succeeded but afghani freebie of them is a pain in the backside lol

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