Wattage question..

D

Doobenstein

Member
Okay.. someone tells me that 8 x 50 watt (400 watts total) incandesant bulbs use a LOT less power than a single 400w HID. They said some crap about Voltage and Amperage and Ohms.. I don't think they have a clue what they are talking about, so I came here for advice.

I am under the impression that 400 watts is 400 watts.. no matter what? But this person seems to think otherwise. Please, someone set me straight. Thank you.
 
D

Doobenstein

Member
This has nothing to do with lighting or anything, I am talking pure power consumption. The person was trying to tell me that a 400w HID light uses a shit ton more electricity/power than a 400w drying machine, or a 400 watt heater, or 8x 50 watt bulbs, etc.

This makes absolutely no sense to me. He is wrong, right?
 
lulutheblack

lulutheblack

Active Member
He could be right. I'm not an electrician but on the packages of these products you can find more detailed information about the amount of power they burn from usage.

However, I find it hard to believe that a 400w HID would use more electricity/power than ANY heater whatsoever, even a tiny space heater.

I don't know. There are some electricians on this site though. Hopefully one of them reads this and replies.
 
Dudesome

Dudesome

Well-Known Member
HIDs do use more energy than the CFLs. its not all about wattage, although wattage has alot to do with it.
CFL are the energy saving lights after all...
 
Dudesome

Dudesome

Well-Known Member
Just think how otherwise would HIDs have THAT much more ight penetration, than CFLs... wouldnt make sense
 
D

Doobenstein

Member
Dudesome said:
HIDs do use more energy than the CFLs. its not all about wattage, although wattage has alot to do with it.
CFL are the energy saving lights after all...
Click to expand...
Hi, thanks for your response. Are you able to provide some sort of information behind this? CFLs are energy savers only in comparison to incandescent bulbs. You are saying that 10x 40 watt CFL bulbs will use less energy/kilowatt hours than a single 400 watt HID? Please explain.
 
LAX Skunky BwS

LAX Skunky BwS

Well-Known Member
Listen to the 8:45 min mark perfect example


[video=youtube;sMXIaP5Xlhg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMXIaP5Xlhg[/video]
 
D

Doobenstein

Member
LAX Skunky BwS said:
Listen to the 8:45 min mark perfect example


[video=youtube;sMXIaP5Xlhg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMXIaP5Xlhg[/video]
Click to expand...
Hi, thanks for the response, but I think you are missing my point. I don't care about lumens output per watt. I don't care about penetration, or CFLs. What I am asking is, is there a difference in ENERGY COST between running 400 watts worth of HID, vs 400 watts of CFL, vs 400 watts of incandescent, vs a 400watt heater, vs a 400 watt TV, vs a 400 watt WHATEVER.

It's ALL THE SAME?!? right? Someone told me that 400 watt HID is a LOT MORE EXPENSIVE than 400 watt of ANYTHING else which I believe is very, very wrong. I want to know if this is right or wrong.
 
M

myxedup

Active Member
Wattage is for the most part wattage. Using 10 40watt cfls is going to be almost identical to the draw off of a 400 watt HID.

The reason I say almost identical is due to the fact that some energy is wasted at the ballast. The true indication of the power draw of something is its amp draw. You can very easily find the amp draw for a ballast on an HID but to find it on a cfl, your on your own. Also, keep in mind that cfl's also use ballasts, only they are attached to the bulb itself.

Also, HID lighting has the option of running off of 240 volt current which is going to guarantee that you don't draw more than the amp draw states.

When you run off of 120 volt, you could in theory be drawing double the current due to how alternating current works. You have 2 different power sources entering your home and they both have to use the same amount of power. It's how alternating current works. If you draw 2000 watts off of one of the phases and only 500 watts off of the other, the phase only using 500 watts has to ground out 1500 watts of power which just gets wasted in order to balance out with the other.

Now, when an electrician first installed everything in your house, he also tried to balance out the load in between the 2 phases to reduce waste like this from occuring, but, when we as growers begin doing things that weren't accounted for in terms of electric draw, it is very common for us to unbalance that load and the end result is wasted energy.

So, I guess to sum up, if you're going to be getting 400 watts worth of lighting and you're going to be running it off of normal 120 volt, it doesn't matter if you go with a bunch of cfl's or if you go with HID as far as your electric bill is concerned, but if you get the hid, it will require less work for you and your plants will appreciate it's intensity more.

Happy growing
 
Magnificient

Magnificient

Well-Known Member
Do this: Turn off everything in your house electrical and make sure the meter is stopped. Then plug up the 400 watt hid and measure the consumption and contrast that against 400 watts of cfls. That should convince you. Also, there's an electrician in the forums who could do a lot to answer your electrical questions. Peace
 
D

Doobenstein

Member
myxedup said:
Wattage is for the most part wattage. Using 10 40watt cfls is going to be almost identical to the draw off of a 400 watt HID.

The reason I say almost identical is due to the fact that some energy is wasted at the ballast. The true indication of the power draw of something is its amp draw. You can very easily find the amp draw for a ballast on an HID but to find it on a cfl, your on your own. Also, keep in mind that cfl's also use ballasts, only they are attached to the bulb itself.

Also, HID lighting has the option of running off of 240 volt current which is going to guarantee that you don't draw more than the amp draw states.

When you run off of 120 volt, you could in theory be drawing double the current due to how alternating current works. You have 2 different power sources entering your home and they both have to use the same amount of power. It's how alternating current works. If you draw 2000 watts off of one of the phases and only 500 watts off of the other, the phase only using 500 watts has to ground out 1500 watts of power which just gets wasted in order to balance out with the other.

Now, when an electrician first installed everything in your house, he also tried to balance out the load in between the 2 phases to reduce waste like this from occuring, but, when we as growers begin doing things that weren't accounted for in terms of electric draw, it is very common for us to unbalance that load and the end result is wasted energy.

So, I guess to sum up, if you're going to be getting 400 watts worth of lighting and you're going to be running it off of normal 120 volt, it doesn't matter if you go with a bunch of cfl's or if you go with HID as far as your electric bill is concerned, but if you get the hid, it will require less work for you and your plants will appreciate it's intensity more.

Happy growing
Click to expand...
Thank you so much, this is exactly the type of answer I was looking for.
 
S

solardavid

Member
yes,doobenstein is 100 per cent right on or buy a kill-a-watt meter lowes 25.00 there is a saying in electric trade a meter nevers lies. now concurning a balanced load that that is true does not aply to 240vac.i am a thirty year lineman,electrician and lic. contractor.good luck
 
G

gobbly

Well-Known Member
watts would equal watts if there weren't this thing called a power factor. Most kill-a-watt meters will tell you the PF, and that is basically a coefficient on the rated wattage equaling the true wattage drawn. HID's all should pull the wattage they are rated at (usually just a little higher, the ballast burns a few watts). floro's you can't make that assumption.
 
Someguy15

Someguy15

Well-Known Member
So electricians, 240 is more efficient for the reasons stated above then? I always figured the wattage draw is the same, what diff is it if its 10.6 amps @ 120v or 5.3 @ 240v...so you really do save running ballasts on 240?
 
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