water?

Yep, I'm back again... boy, I didn't expect to have this many issues right off that bat, but I guess I am new haha.

So, I seem to have corrected all of my other issues now, and trimmed off the bottom dead leaves (shown in the pictures) this afternoon right before watering. But it now appears that I'm over-watering my plants (at least it looks like it). I'm not sure how that's the case, either. They are 29-day old (small as hell, I know...) White Widow in solo cups full of holes, in a 50/50 mix of FF Happy Frog and Ecoscraps potting mix. I've been watering around every 2.5 days with 75% RO and 25% well water, and they're staying at about 75°-80° during their 18hr day and 65°-70° for the 6 hours of dark. They have a fan running on high covering the cups and plants 24/7. When I water (unless I'm flushing for some reason) they get about 4 oz of water each, and it just barely runs out of the bottom of the cup, after which the soil feels what I'd consider moist. They're always dry when I watered them, and the humidity is quite low (guessing 20-30% tops). So, am I missing something? Should I let them sit totally dry for a day or so more each time before watering? So maybe water every 3.5 days? Or is this something else?

Also, is there a way to combatest over-watering quicker so they don't get further stressed/damaged between now and letting them go really dry for a bit? Silica gel or something possibly?

I'm very curious to hear your guys' thoughts on this matter.

Thanks in advance,
Peach

P.S. They've gotten droopier since the trimming and watering this afternoon (about 4 hours ago)

Hmm they look a little droopy but not terrible,I would try and get your rh up some they like ~50% at this stage 20% is a bit low.Sounds like you are doing ok with your watering to me.Try not to blow the fan right on them at this small size it can really dry them out.Looks to me there are other problems here,like limited light for growth or something.

Resinhound said:

Hmm they look a little droopy but not terrible,I would try and get your rh up some they like ~50% at this stage 20% is a bit low.Sounds like you are doing ok with your watering to me.Try not to blow the fan right on them at this small size it can really dry them out.Looks to me there are other problems here,like limited light for growth or something.

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Thanks.
Yeah, I'm hoping to do something to help out with humidity soon. Really? Well, I guess, yeah... they're not under a lot for light right now. The lighting in the picture was actually not their regular light, just room light. I have them under 4, 26w 5000k CFLs about 2" from the tops of the plants, and they'll be getting 8 bulbs in the next couple of days (yep, budget grow and a half here ) Don't I want the fan pointed at them to help get stronger stems though? Also, do you think this could be partly a PH problem? I don't think the PH is far off, but I don't have a meter to check or stuff to adjust it yet (I know, I'm kind of behind on getting all my supplies haha)

Yes generally you do want the fan pointed at them or just over the top of them...but when your rh is 20% something has to give...will they grow,sure but its not optimal.If you are using cfls make sure you get some kind of reflector so you get all those photons where they have to go.The clip on ones with y splitters work well.

I'm growing in 20% right now. You can see it's not (much of) a problem. You just can't do the common fan-on-the-plants thing. I use a speed controller to turn my clip-on down (the controller doesn't work well. It is all-or-nothing, but I'm able to finese a slower speed out of it.). And, I aim it at the floor, or ceiling, or a wall. Just very mild air movement (turbulent air) reaching the plant. (And, a wet towell laying on the floor. You can keep one end of the towel in a bowl of water to give it some longevity. I'm not too good about that. I just wet a towel when I think of it.).

Resinhound said:

Yes generally you do want the fan pointed at them or just over the top of them...but when your rh is 20% something has to give...will they grow,sure but its not optimal.If you are using cfls make sure you get some kind of reflector so you get all those photons where they have to go.The clip on ones with y splitters work well.

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Ahh, gotcha. Well, I just got my humidity gauges in a bit ago so I'll toss one in and get an accurate reading on it. I'm just guessing that's where it is are as our usual humidity here is about 15% and they're probably producing a bit on their own. For now I suppose I can make that sacrifice, but I think I'll be getting a humidifier soon to help out. I've got tin foil up for now in their grow area reflecting as much light as possible while still keeping the area cool enough (had some heat issues initially. I hope to get something better after a bit though to help out with getting them ample light.

az2000 said:

I'm growing in 20% right now. It's can see it's not (much) a problem. You just can't do the common fan-on-the-plants thing. I use a speed controller to turn my clip-on down (the controller doesn't work well. It is all-or-nothing, but I'm able to finese a slower speed out of it.). And, I aim it at the floor, or ceiling, or a wall. Just very mild air movement (turbulent air) reaching the plant. (And, a wet towell laying on the floor. You can keep one end of the towel in a bowl of water to give it some longevity. I'm not too good about that. I just wet a towel when I think of it.).

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Thanks for the tips!
I'll give that a go until I can go get a humidifier for their area!

You can also run a fan brimming the surface of a bowl of water, raises humidity just a bit. To be honest I usually go 4-5 days with my seedlings in solo cups between when they get watered in originally to when they get their first real watering. Then I can generally get away with another 5 days or so, watering them at the 10 day mark, they generally need transplanting before I have to water them a third time. Propagating in a humidity dome with 1 100W t5 6 inches away.

ArcticOrange said:

You can also run a fan brimming the surface of a bowl of water, raises humidity just a bit. To be honest I usually go 4-5 days with my seedlings in solo cups between when they get watered in originally to when they get their first real watering. Then I can generally get away with another 5 days or so, watering them at the 10 day mark, they generally need transplanting before I have to water them a third time. Propagating in a humidity dome with 1 100W t5 6 inches away.

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Okay cool, well we'll see how much the humidity needs adjusted and I'll go from there! Okay, so in this size of pot you think maybe don't water as often? I mean, I feel like since they're dry, it shouldn't be bad at 2.5 days, but I also think I could be wrong since they're looking droopy. Either way I'll still give them some extra time to dry before watering again.

PeachyBuds said:

Either way I'll still give them some extra time to dry before watering again.

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Wait for the cups to feel pretty light (you'll think it's alarming). Also push your pinky into the soil and if you don't feel some moisture on your skin, that could indicate the need to water. If it feels heavy still, you might mist the top soil to re-moisten it. It can be a balancing act with seedlings.

But, your plants are large enough that you should be going for a fairly dry condition. When they're larger, in full-size pots, you can withhold water until the leaves droop (wilt). That will give you an unforgettable sense of what "too light" feels like. From then on you'll know how far you can go (and should try getting fairly close to most of the time). The leaves will bounce back within 20 minutes of watering. It's not a big problem. but, it is stress and I wouldn't do it often. It's just a tradeoff of one stress to learn something so you avoid an ongoing stress (watering too frequently).

az2000 said:

Wait for the cups to feel pretty light (you'll think it's alarming). Also push your pinky into the soil and if you don't feel some moisture on your skin, that could indicate the need to water. If it feels heavy still, you might mist the top soil to re-moisten it. It can be a balancing act with seedlings.

But, your plants are large enough that you should be going for a fairly dry condition. When they're larger, in full-size pots, you can withhold water until the leaves droop (wilt). That will give you an unforgettable sense of what "too light" feels like. From then on you'll know how far you can go (and should try getting fairly close to most of the time). The leaves will bounce back within 20 minutes of watering. It's not a big problem. but, it is stress and I wouldn't do it often. It's just a tradeoff of one stress to learn something so you avoid an ongoing stress (watering too frequently).

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Thanks for the info!
Each time I've watered the pots have felt very light and sticking a finger in, I can't feel any moisture. That's why I think it's odd that they'd be getting too much. but, maybe I'm catching it just right as it's fully dry, and not giving it enough time to sit dry? Not really sure... Think it could be anything else by chance?

You may be doing it correctly. They don't look bad to me. I was going by what sounded like some concern you weren't letting them dry enough. Don't overshoot it. Or, do it with only one (if you want to risk the "too late" droop/wilt).

Maybe you should get some light on them so they can grow,I dont think the small amount of overwatering (that I see in the pics)isnt going to stunt a 30 day old plant into a 7day plant.Additional light will also allow the plants to take up more of that water and not just evap out of the cups.

Resinhound said:

Yes generally you do want the fan pointed at them or just over the top of them...but when your rh is 20% something has to give...will they grow,sure but its not optimal.If you are using cfls make sure you get some kind of reflector so you get all those photons where they have to go.The clip on ones with y splitters work well.

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Well, now that I've got the gauge in there, it looks like my guess was spot on! 20% :/ So, here's the issue now... If I move the fan, the plants get way too much heat from the lights. I did add in a wet hand towel by the fan, so we'll see how that does to raise it a bit. But otherwise, it's looking like they'll need to get a humidifier runnin'. Thankfully, they'll be moved to a more workable setup soon, this is just temporary, but there's a pic of the new area as well.

az2000 said:

You may be doing it correctly. They don't look bad to me. I was going by what sounded like some concern you weren't letting them dry enough. Don't overshoot it. Or, do it with only one (if you want to risk the "too late" droop/wilt).

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Ahh okay. I may try that, but I'm definitely cautious due to all the other stress they've had. Right, they don't look too bad, I'm just reaaaaally trying to catch any issues and get them corrected asap.

Thanks for the help!

Resinhound said:

Maybe you should get some light on them so they can grow,I dont think the small amount of overwatering (that I see in the pics)isnt going to stunt a 30 day old plant into a 7day plant.Additional light will also allow the plants to take up more of that water and not just evap out of the cups.

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Yeah, I know. They'll be getting double the light shortly when I move them into their new area, but for now, this is all I can do while keeping them from roasting. If only I could afford an MH setup right now... :/ maybe after these are harvested I can get my hands on one though!

PeachyBuds said:

this is all I can do while keeping them from roasting.

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If you have the money you can buy Cree LED lightbulbs at Home Depot. They run cooler. (If you do that, don't get the cheap, plastic "4Flow" model. You want the ones with the glass globe and heat-sink fins around the base.). They come in handy for sidelighting.

At least get some reflectors man.When using cfls you need to focus the radiant light.

az2000 said:

If you have the money you can buy Cree LED lightbulbs at Home Depot. They run cooler. (If you do that, don't get the cheap, plastic "4Flow" model. You want the ones with the glass globe and heat-sink fins around the base.).

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interesting. I had thought about LEDs but had heard they don't work well unless you drop a few hundred bucks on a reaaaaally good setup. Any idea how well thone work for veging compared to the equivalent amount of CFLs? I did at least get lucky enough to get a 400w HPS setup used (but in great shape) for $80, so at least I know they'll get what they need in flowering for light, and heat definitely won't be an issue where they'll be (underground!)

Resinhound said:

At least get some reflectors man.When using cfls you need to focus the radiant light.

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Yeah, I'll set some up in the new area. hopefully eight 26w bulbs with reflectors will be enough for 'em. There'll only be 3 plants at a time in the future. I didn't know these were feminized til after I planted, and I wasn't expecting so many to make it just fine, but I'd feel bad ditching the rest at this point.