Vegan Organics Aka Veganics With Matt Rize
- Thread starter Matt Rize
- Start date
SensiSoulJah
Member
Hello Matt, and thanks for taking the time to share all of this useful information with us! I have a question that just crossed my mind, and if it's already been asked somewhere in this post, forgive me, I've only read the first 10 pages so far... So I got to thinking, so technically when you grow something organically, you can use things such as bone and blood meal, fish products, manure, guano, etc... Now I totally agree with your logic in that a plant growing in nature is growing in a soil made mostly of decomposed plant matter, not so much animal waste or decomposing animal bodies... and now that I think about it, how weird it is to use these things for organic growing.
Now here's the question I was getting to: let's say you're a vegan or vegetarian (I try to be vegan, but that damn cheese always gets me!) and you're going to an organic co-op or grocery store to buy organic vegetables. Seeing as these plants were most likely grown with animal byproducts and/or waste, couldn't you argue that the plants themselves have animal in them? Perhaps I'm thinking about this wrong; do the animal by products get broken down in the soil, and the beneficial nutrients and minerals (N, P, K, etc) are taken up? So you technically argue that animal particles then do not make their way into the plants, rather the nutrients from the chemical process of the animal products being broken down... but still if you're a vegetarian/vegan for the reason that you do not want to consume animals, or further you're against any form of animal cruelty - aren't the animals used to make bone meal and blood meal being slaughtered in an unnatural fashion? Further, do the animals used to make bone meal and blood meal live on free range farms where they get to graze grass, and aren't feed corn and whatnot that was covered in pesticides? Is the meat that comes from the cows used to make blood/bone meal sold at organic markets?
It seems that veganics will have to become the future of organic, as people are being more and more concerned with being all natural vegans - the way we were intended to be... I suppose that's opinion, but when you look at the facts, such as we don't have the teeth of a carnivore (everyone's always like "oh but the canine tooth"... in reality that tooth isn't that sharp when compared to that of a TRUE carnivore), our digestive track is longer like herbivores - not like the short digestive track of carnivores. The reasoning behind this is meat rots in the belly if the digestive track is too long... the only reason humans can consume meat on a regular basis is because they cook it... Not to mention the misinformation campaigns that took place back in the day, that told you your children would grow slowly, and would be inferior, protein deprived individuals... most americans have an overabundance of protein, and there is plenty of protein in nuts, seeds, legumes (beans) etc... These are all VERY logical reasons as to why we shouldn't eat meat... Sure there's some great tasting meals (steaks, burgers, hotdogs etc) that have unfortunately become tradition in many cultures, but I think people are beginning to realize the truth; that we've been lied to about meat our whole lives (I'm referencing the mass amount of americans that consume meat, not those of you who have been fortunate enough to be lifelong vegetarians/vegans).
And if you start to look into how these animals are "grown" and "harvested" much like plants, and the whole unnatural process of their lives, from feeding them pesticide-covered corn when they should be eating grass - to the fact that the number one pork provider for the US is located in Mexico (where there are less health codes), whose products are sold at places such as McDonald's and Subway, raise pigs indoors, in a 100% unnatural life, from it's artificial insemination to it's slaughter in the cage it was raised, these pigs never even see the light of day. And the toxic chemical build-up you acquire by eating these products... Oh and let's not forget facts like it takes 8 lbs of grain to produce 1 lb of pork... yet 35,000 children die everyday of starvation? But I digress... I've only been vegetarian for a half a year, so I know what it's like being on the other side, and thinking about how impossible it would be to become a vegetarian... and now I'm left wishing I had done it WAYYY sooner. I'm sure now a good portion of this community says "Okay, this peace-loving-hippie-son-of-a-bitch is going off on ridiculous tangents" but all of these things are tied together... and if you REALLY consider some of these facts, could you honestly say this is really a world you want to live in? Just imagine for a second in the randomness of you being born, you happened to born on the other side of the planet in Africa, and couldn't go get a double cheese burger for a dollar and didn't have the luxury of talking about a plant that you most likely consume for fun on the internet...
All this being said, I've purchased some Sour Diesel claimed to be grown with Kushman Veganics and it truly is some of the most phenomenal smoke I've ever experienced, and I like to consider myself a connoisseur... I've been to 15-20 dispensaries in the NorCal area and the first thing I always say when I walk in is "I need the best of the best, I have a very high tolerance"
Thanks for the inspiration Matt, I've been reading a lot of your work on the internet... good stuff. I'm definitely going to go veganic my next grow, I'll let you know how it goes!
Sensi
Now here's the question I was getting to: let's say you're a vegan or vegetarian (I try to be vegan, but that damn cheese always gets me!) and you're going to an organic co-op or grocery store to buy organic vegetables. Seeing as these plants were most likely grown with animal byproducts and/or waste, couldn't you argue that the plants themselves have animal in them? Perhaps I'm thinking about this wrong; do the animal by products get broken down in the soil, and the beneficial nutrients and minerals (N, P, K, etc) are taken up? So you technically argue that animal particles then do not make their way into the plants, rather the nutrients from the chemical process of the animal products being broken down... but still if you're a vegetarian/vegan for the reason that you do not want to consume animals, or further you're against any form of animal cruelty - aren't the animals used to make bone meal and blood meal being slaughtered in an unnatural fashion? Further, do the animals used to make bone meal and blood meal live on free range farms where they get to graze grass, and aren't feed corn and whatnot that was covered in pesticides? Is the meat that comes from the cows used to make blood/bone meal sold at organic markets?
It seems that veganics will have to become the future of organic, as people are being more and more concerned with being all natural vegans - the way we were intended to be... I suppose that's opinion, but when you look at the facts, such as we don't have the teeth of a carnivore (everyone's always like "oh but the canine tooth"... in reality that tooth isn't that sharp when compared to that of a TRUE carnivore), our digestive track is longer like herbivores - not like the short digestive track of carnivores. The reasoning behind this is meat rots in the belly if the digestive track is too long... the only reason humans can consume meat on a regular basis is because they cook it... Not to mention the misinformation campaigns that took place back in the day, that told you your children would grow slowly, and would be inferior, protein deprived individuals... most americans have an overabundance of protein, and there is plenty of protein in nuts, seeds, legumes (beans) etc... These are all VERY logical reasons as to why we shouldn't eat meat... Sure there's some great tasting meals (steaks, burgers, hotdogs etc) that have unfortunately become tradition in many cultures, but I think people are beginning to realize the truth; that we've been lied to about meat our whole lives (I'm referencing the mass amount of americans that consume meat, not those of you who have been fortunate enough to be lifelong vegetarians/vegans).
And if you start to look into how these animals are "grown" and "harvested" much like plants, and the whole unnatural process of their lives, from feeding them pesticide-covered corn when they should be eating grass - to the fact that the number one pork provider for the US is located in Mexico (where there are less health codes), whose products are sold at places such as McDonald's and Subway, raise pigs indoors, in a 100% unnatural life, from it's artificial insemination to it's slaughter in the cage it was raised, these pigs never even see the light of day. And the toxic chemical build-up you acquire by eating these products... Oh and let's not forget facts like it takes 8 lbs of grain to produce 1 lb of pork... yet 35,000 children die everyday of starvation? But I digress... I've only been vegetarian for a half a year, so I know what it's like being on the other side, and thinking about how impossible it would be to become a vegetarian... and now I'm left wishing I had done it WAYYY sooner. I'm sure now a good portion of this community says "Okay, this peace-loving-hippie-son-of-a-bitch is going off on ridiculous tangents" but all of these things are tied together... and if you REALLY consider some of these facts, could you honestly say this is really a world you want to live in? Just imagine for a second in the randomness of you being born, you happened to born on the other side of the planet in Africa, and couldn't go get a double cheese burger for a dollar and didn't have the luxury of talking about a plant that you most likely consume for fun on the internet...
All this being said, I've purchased some Sour Diesel claimed to be grown with Kushman Veganics and it truly is some of the most phenomenal smoke I've ever experienced, and I like to consider myself a connoisseur... I've been to 15-20 dispensaries in the NorCal area and the first thing I always say when I walk in is "I need the best of the best, I have a very high tolerance"
Thanks for the inspiration Matt, I've been reading a lot of your work on the internet... good stuff. I'm definitely going to go veganic my next grow, I'll let you know how it goes!Sensi
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
Yes, most Cannabis plants grown from seed will show sex as "pre-flowers", usually a month+ into veg. Check out this old thread: https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/5446-preflowers.html
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
I wrote an article on BHO (butane honey oil). Check it out, very informative. http://medicalmarijuana.com/experts/expert/title.cfm?artID=70
GoldenGanja13
Well-Known Member
Oh nice~ I have been looking into BHO for 2 years now. I have yet to try it. But last week a friend gave me some ear wax and it was like "AWWWWW".
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
I got to session with Subcool, here's King TGA dabbing my OG Kush ice water extract. Big up to Selecta Nikka T (guy with wrapped up dreds on the right) for making his "Solventless Wax" with me. And big ups to my homie Organamike also pictured. Whoever's hairy arm that is... thanks for being in the way lol ALSO BIG UP STEEP HILL LAB for hosting!
NightbirdX
Well-Known Member
Awesome man! Wish I coulda been out there. Maybe next year. They need to do something out here in the Midwest. 
RPsmoke420
Active Member
ha! good times Rize. Thanks for coming by the booth! Had an awesome weekend. Biggest ups!
and looks like my big ole arm in the way... haha. My bad! But I got you a decent video of Sub dabing that hash.
and looks like my big ole arm in the way... haha. My bad! But I got you a decent video of Sub dabing that hash.
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
haha, well in that case you were in the perfect spot. big ups to RP for hosting the dab party. I want to see that video brah!
RPsmoke420
Active Member
You see Rize in the background, and Selecta Nikka T providing the proper dab of the solvent-less wax for Subcool.
NightbirdX
Well-Known Member
Right about now I really miss my native Cali. How was the event?
RPsmoke420
Active Member
Was great! A much nicer venue then last. Makes me excited to see how it keeps getting better. But I really had a blast this weekend.
NightbirdX
Well-Known Member
Ya, I really need to make it out there. Do they accept cross state Medicinal Cards? That would just be awesome, lol.
RPsmoke420
Active Member
Gotta have a State card (something Ca is slacking on. I know other states recognize out of state patients). But I met quite a few out of state guys... so you can make it happen.
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
I accept cross state cards, also those with no cards, lol. dabbing out anyone who came thru
NightbirdX
Well-Known Member
Lol, I'll be sure to find your booth then when I make my way out there.I accept cross state cards, also those with no cards, lol. dabbing out anyone who came thru
SensiSoulJah
Member
Hey Matt - I posted on page 109 and was wondering if you had any answers/feedback for me? Sorry for the long windedness in advance.... Great post by the way
RPsmoke420
Active Member
Of course you could argue your point.
One would argue, that by providing animal products to the soil, you are not feeding the plants, but feeding the soil. As the soil food web progresses, those inputs are the cause of plant growth, but it is not the direct uptake of animal 'products' that create the plant.
Also, most soil amendment products are by-products of the Animal farming industry, and is not it's own cause for slaughter.
As the questions on quality of your 'meal', this has to do with the producer. I know I can get locally made Fish Bone meal. I can also source local bone meal. However, if you must buy commercial, do your research (goes for local too. Local doesn't = quality). Blood meal is generally a by-product of a bovine slaughter house, and not that cows are being slaughtered just for their blood. It's making use of a waste product.
Hope that helps to answer some of those questions. You didn't make it easy to find 'em! lol
dsmoke1
Active Member
Wish I would have known who was who at the cup! It was jam-packed anyhow 
Great stuff going on here. Love the "veganics" theory. I have been having great success with a watered down system within your guidelines by creating my own organic concentrate that keeps my plants healthy and smelling sweeter than ever. I use it standalone in my own soil for the first few weeks of flower, and then water thereafter. In hydro, I run as a bloom enhancer alongside my general nutrient regimen. If you're interested, here's a detailed write up: https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/429193-indoor-dwc-2x600w-jack-ripper-16.html#post5874371
You're completely right though. I may not have seen it all, but I've seen enough to understand that there is a science behind creating chemical and biological reactions within your entire grow operation. Organic or "Sythenic" or "Chemical", it's all the same. You're providing energy to the plant through various chemical reactions. The great thing about organics, or "veganics", is that you, the grower, are in control of much less. In this aspect, that's a good thing. Mother nature is way better at growing plants than you and I ever will be, period. I'm cool with that, and in being so, I'll definitely let her handle most of the guess work. See what I mean? I know you do Healthier plants, healthier smoke, heavier wallet, and less headaches- I love a good Hydro/DWC project just like any other grow-nerd, but the proof is in the pudding. Thanks for the good work, and that purple Plush Berry looks beyond tasty. Great job!
Great stuff going on here. Love the "veganics" theory. I have been having great success with a watered down system within your guidelines by creating my own organic concentrate that keeps my plants healthy and smelling sweeter than ever. I use it standalone in my own soil for the first few weeks of flower, and then water thereafter. In hydro, I run as a bloom enhancer alongside my general nutrient regimen. If you're interested, here's a detailed write up: https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/429193-indoor-dwc-2x600w-jack-ripper-16.html#post5874371You're completely right though. I may not have seen it all, but I've seen enough to understand that there is a science behind creating chemical and biological reactions within your entire grow operation. Organic or "Sythenic" or "Chemical", it's all the same. You're providing energy to the plant through various chemical reactions. The great thing about organics, or "veganics", is that you, the grower, are in control of much less. In this aspect, that's a good thing. Mother nature is way better at growing plants than you and I ever will be, period. I'm cool with that, and in being so, I'll definitely let her handle most of the guess work. See what I mean? I know you do
Healthier plants, healthier smoke, heavier wallet, and less headaches- I love a good Hydro/DWC project just like any other grow-nerd, but the proof is in the pudding. Thanks for the good work, and that purple Plush Berry looks beyond tasty. Great job!
R3DROCk9
Active Member
"I'm in a couple scenes of KK's movie trailer."
are you the dude with the hat, sunglasses, and mustache or the the skinny fellow with the mustache and beard towards the end??.....jus curious
ima introduce myself next time...
oh and p.s. matty....jus started workin at a reggae restaurant down here in san diego....if you ever make it down, lemme kno....i get you sum food wen yuh dayuh......pce
are you the dude with the hat, sunglasses, and mustache or the the skinny fellow with the mustache and beard towards the end??.....jus curious
ima introduce myself next time...
oh and p.s. matty....jus started workin at a reggae restaurant down here in san diego....if you ever make it down, lemme kno....i get you sum food wen yuh dayuh......pce