Vegan Organics Aka Veganics With Matt Rize

Hey Matt, thanks for addressing my points. In all fairness, those stalks are impressive as all hell & if this method produces superior results consistently, I'm all for it! Another question, if I may; you keep using a healthy forest floor as your baseline for optimum soil conditions, but I think we can aspire to way better conditions than that. That's what I mean by "supernatural" in reference to growing conditions. Ya'll are already boosting with myco & bacteria to achieve levels exceeding those commonly found in nature so it would stand to reason that by providing high nitrogen & phosphorus guanos, you're essentially doing the same thing. Not changing nature, just enhancing it so much as that is possible. We stoners didn't discover the benefits of guanos in horticulture; farmers have utilized bat shit in their fields since the advent of farming damn near. And honestly, I just don't like the idea of being dependent on corporate products to be able to produce top-shelf meds. I guess so long as all those companies are in business you're ok, but I don't know if that's always gonna be the case. Personally, I'd cry if they stopped making Hygrozyme... or I'd just use kikoman soy sauce, which is what that shit smells like.

yeah yeah, I know; kikoman is a corporation too... I 'm just sayin.

bobbypyn said:

Hey Matt, thanks for addressing my points. In all fairness, those stalks are impressive as all hell & if this method produces superior results consistently, I'm all for it! Another question, if I may; you keep using a healthy forest floor as your baseline for optimum soil conditions, but I think we can aspire to way better conditions than that. That's what I mean by "supernatural" in reference to growing conditions. Ya'll are already boosting with myco & bacteria to achieve levels exceeding those commonly found in nature so it would stand to reason that by providing high nitrogen & phosphorus guanos, you're essentially doing the same thing. Not changing nature, just enhancing it so much as that is possible. We stoners didn't discover the benefits of guanos in horticulture; farmers have utilized bat shit in their fields since the advent of farming damn near. And honestly, I just don't like the idea of being dependent on corporate products to be able to produce top-shelf meds. I guess so long as all those companies are in business you're ok, but I don't know if that's always gonna be the case. Personally, I'd cry if they stopped making Hygrozyme... or I'd just use kikoman soy sauce, which is what that shit smells like.

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Lol bobbypyn, soy sauce. But serious for a second. I like using bottled nutes for my indoor. I can only promote using the Biocanna because the results, FOR ME, have been higher THC, better look, better smell, and much better smoke. That about seals the deal for me, from someone doing organics with guanos for a decade.

I wanna see some tech'd out watering techniques...., hows everyone doing it, top feed, bottom, flood? How much & when etc.... just another aspect of soil & veganics....also another things about the worm bins.....guess where all the under brush goes!!! Right inside for the worms...and back into the cycle...

ebflow said:

I wanna see some tech'd out watering techniques...., hows everyone doing it, top feed, bottom, flood? How much & when etc.... just another aspect of soil & veganics....also another things about the worm bins.....guess where all the under brush goes!!! Right inside for the worms...and back into the cycle...

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I feed pretty simple. I have a 30 gallon res, I let the water sit out 24 hours after going through a small boy. I give about 15 gallons to 24 3-gallon pots, every three days. I top feed with a sump pump/hose/wand combo. I start about 300 ppm, and work up to 700, then back down.

The worms love ganja scraps.

I am about ready to start a veganic grow but getting everything rounded up sure is tough, and expensive.
I have the following stuff rounded up and would appreciate knowing what is missing, and if any of them should be cut from the program. I am also interested to know which ones go in the bubbler with the humus.

canna bio veg&flower
canna rhizotonic
canna cannazyme
canna bioboost
thrive alive
earth ambrosia/nectar
mycomaddness
ancient forest humus
Hum-boldt humic acid
mineral matrix
general organics cal/mag
and a bottle of organic blackstrap molasses
they are growing in sunshine pro mix#4 (the new mix with myco in it)

I still need to order some natures nectar N and also some kind of fulvic.... anything else?

I would recommend Bio ag Ful-Power, that stuff kicks ass, i am even considering getting their Food grade fulvic for human consumption, plants get better nutrition than us!! LOL... are the canna rhizotonic &
canna cannazyme organic based? I would recommend mixing down the sunshine pro #4 with peat of coco, has way to much tiny bits of perlite....was not to impressed...but it works.

summitoker said:

I am about ready to start a veganic grow but getting everything rounded up sure is tough, and expensive.
I have the following stuff rounded up and would appreciate knowing what is missing, and if any of them should be cut from the program. I am also interested to know which ones go in the bubbler with the humus.

canna bio veg&flower
canna rhizotonic
canna cannazyme
canna bioboost
thrive alive
earth ambrosia/nectar
mycomaddness
ancient forest humus
Hum-boldt humic acid
mineral matrix
general organics cal/mag
and a bottle of organic blackstrap molasses
they are growing in sunshine pro mix#4 (the new mix with myco in it)

I still need to order some natures nectar N and also some kind of fulvic.... anything else?

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That's about all I could imagine. Remember to start easy, and supplements won't really be needed until after 12/12.

ebflow said:

I would recommend Bio ag Ful-Power, that stuff kicks ass, i am even considering getting their Food grade fulvic for human consumption, plants get better nutrition than us!! LOL... are the canna rhizotonic &
canna cannazyme organic based? I would recommend mixing down the sunshine pro #4 with peat of coco, has way to much tiny bits of perlite....was not to impressed...but it works.

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The rhizo and cannazym are not organic, but they are plant derived. The organic versions do not make it to the US yet, but are available in Europe.

How about Botanicare's huvega for Mg and and Calplex for Ca? OMRI listed I believe. Just a thought. Calplex uses mined Gypsum (permitted by OMRI) and huvega uses Magnesium Sulfate (synthetic Epsom Salts and also OMRI listed). I believe huvega would also privide a some fulvic acids too.

Better then CalMg+.

RPsmoke420 said:

How about Botanicare's huvega for Mg and and Calplex for Ca? OMRI listed I believe. Just a thought. Calplex uses mined Gypsum (permitted by OMRI) and huvega uses Magnesium Sulfate (synthetic Epsom Salts and also OMRI listed). I believe huvega would also privide a some fulvic acids too.

Better then CalMg+.

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Hey, that is what I am currently using. I really like the magnesium sulfate in liquid form... and huvega used to have fulvic acid on the label (until that became illegal in CA), it's made for foliaring but is also great in the res.

(some other topics to dive into..)
How about Veg Time, duration, Size-(indica, sativas)before switch to 12/12... 4weeks+,-? and is 3 gallon pots the biggest you use? what shape are we looking at before flower, Christmas tree, Four main stalks and topped & fimmed, or 4-8+ colas on a even level, stripping under brush ect. I think maybe we should elaborate a little more on the structure and size and shape of plants for optimal nutrient and light intake also in-depth training techniques (kushman chiropracty, when to fim, when to top etc. What is you personnel opinion on the average yield per plant with Veganic techniques(depends on stain but lets say average)? (under a 600w). Because all this has to do with how well our medicine turns out, it is a key variable in quality and yield of veganics.

I'd guess 1/2 - 1 ounce per gallon of soil-less media.

ebflow said:

(some other topics to dive into..)
How about Veg Time, duration, Size-(indica, sativas)before switch to 12/12... 4weeks+,-? and is 3 gallon pots the biggest you use? what shape are we looking at before flower, Christmas tree, Four main stalks and topped & fimmed, or 4-8+ colas on a even level, stripping under brush ect. I think maybe we should elaborate a little more on the structure and size and shape of plants for optimal nutrient and light intake also in-depth training techniques (kushman chiropracty, when to fim, when to top etc. What is you personnel opinion on the average yield per plant with Veganic techniques(depends on stain but lets say average)? (under a 600w). Because all this has to do with how well our medicine turns out, it is a key variable in quality and yield of veganics.

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There is so much to say about training. And there are so many factors that will affect what you can/should do. When I grow Kushes and Indicas I do much less training than when I run sativa.

My garden is 600's with a low ceiling, I run 3 and 5 gallon pots max. Kushman runs 1000s and uses 10 to 15 gallon pots. He grows giant bushes, about 12 stems per plant. I grow smaller bushes about 8 stems per plant. We both remove the lower nodes (lollipop). We both FIM, usually early.

It's really hard to talk about yield per plant. Kushman has pulled 500g plants in 25 gallon pots, remember this is all indoors. He gets about 1.5/thouy. I get about 1.5 per 1200, and use less CO2 and way less food. Veganics isn't about yield. We have both seen yields decrease and quality increase since going vegan organic.

Awesome thanks for the reply! How long do you veg? to about what height, before switching them over? Would imagine it takes a little longer from the LST techniques. Definitely agree with you, Veganics is not about yield its about quality...but if you think about it that is still alot of medicine per plant for personnel use.

ebflow said:

Awesome thanks for the reply! How long do you veg? to about what height, before switching them over? Would imagine it takes a little longer from the LST techniques. Definitely agree with you, Veganics is not about yield its about quality...but if you think about it that is still alot of medicine per plant for personnel use.

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Veg depends on variety. A few weeks usually. Sativas stretch after flowering is initiated, 12/12. Indica and ksuh do not. The lst does set back veg a few days, but I do that chiro three times usually. Sorry for short reply, net is down, effing cell phone buttons.

whats up professor,

i was going to buy some of that D.E. you suggested for gnats. But i also saw that neem oil will also work. Now the reason i bring up neem is because it kills off other bugs, just like DE, but prevents mold and mildew. I have also read on RIU somewhere that neem oil is systemic and if i apply it to the soil, i wont have to spray it. My question to you is, Can something i feed into the soil really combat an enviormental problem such as high humidity, which cause mold/mildew??
and btw, i dont have mildew or mold either... just wondering as a preventative measure

Love NEEM

Neem is my favorite of all hort oils. I spray neem weekly in veg and about two weeks into flower

so applying it in the soil will build the plants immunity to the mildew, mold, and pest attacks over time, since its systematic?? kind of like mediciene for plants? or is spraying neem the more effective way to use it?

no wonder why i have always heard neem, neem, neem, neem, lol

sharpshoota said:

so applying it in the soil will build the plants immunity to the mildew, mold, and pest attacks over time, since its systematic?? kind of like mediciene for plants? or is spraying neem the more effective way to use it?

no wonder why i have always heard neem, neem, neem, neem, lol

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I have not used neem meal, but ideally yes, the plant wpuld uptake the neem, making it systemic. For me, spraying on the tops and bottoms of the leafs is important for powdery mildew.