Vegan Organics Aka Veganics With Matt Rize

Cann said:

oh yeah and I got a clarification from the master cultivator (LOL) himself - Kyle Kushman - yesterday at the cannabis cup. He says that earthworms are allowed in his version of veganic cultivation only if they are fed a strict vegan diet. As he put it, the worms don't have true stomachs and instead act as a medium for bacteria to breakdown organic material, and since bacteria are not "animals" it is not an animal byproduct in the conventional sense of the word. Basically, a stomach has to be involved for it to be true "poop". On the subject of nematodes and protozoa, etc, he said that they were welcomed in veganic growing (because theyre basically impossible to avoid) and that their inputs are not large enough to affect the "veganic integrity" of the soil. He did agree that nematodes and protozoa can be considered animals in the traditional sense...although I had to explain to him the definition of "animal" and eukaryotes vs prokaryotes etc. He said that he did not have the vocabulary to explain why earthworms and nematodes etc are allowed, but that they comply with the veganic definitions..he then ushered me over to his kylekushman.com sign up sheet.....

LOL so despite the insane misinformation that he produced (master cultivator eh?) he also agreed that there are hundreds of thousands of animals in every batch of veganic soil which are constantly shitting on your wonderful "veganic" heaven...I would consider this non-veganic of course, but he says it's good to go. i guess it depends on the definition of "vegan" which I have never taken the time or energy to look up...

animals are part of this planet....why would we want to exclude them? especially from something as raw and primal as soil...that shit needs its animals to be alive! I guess that's where veganics and "living soil" differ...one of the million ways.

so there you have it....who the f*** knows what veganic means

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This is exactly what I was saying, as long as your worms are "vegan" technically so is their castings. All veganic growing means is your supplements and/or soil come from a majority of different plant extracts. I agree that it is very controversial and really is based n how you interpret it. I don't have any animal anything, besides EWC, in my plants. Resulting in some of the cleanest smelling, cleanest tasting medicine I have ever had an opportunity to try.

Whats the point behind veganics anyway? Unless you are a hardcore vegan who only eats vegetables then whats the point? I would think vegan pot heads only make up like 1% of the MMJ community. I really cant tell a difference as I have smoked Birds veganic flowers, and I smoked my buddies and my own organic flowers ( which we use a lot of the same stuff / techniques that Rrog, Cann and Rising moon are always preaching about) and I really cant tell a difference at all. Not knocking veganic growing just curious because I cant tell a difference in the end product.

BeaverHuntr said:

Rrog, Cann and Rising moon are always preaching about.

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Preaching, so that's what they call it?

kiss-ass

BeaverHuntr said:

Whats the point behind veganics anyway? Unless you are a hardcore vegan who only eats vegetables then whats the point? I would think vegan pot heads only make up like 1% of the MMJ community. I really cant tell a difference as I have smoked Birds veganic flowers, and I smoked my buddies and my own organic flowers ( which we use a lot of the same stuff / techniques that Rrog, Cann and Rising moon are always preaching about) and I really cant tell a difference at all. Not knocking veganic growing just curious because I cant tell a difference in the end product.

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I have switched from organic to veganic this round and my plants are lovin it, no nute burn like I would sometimes get in organic , seems like the plants are metabolizing the food better . And also the smell of veganics is so much better, I was using AN iguana juice and it smelled so bad , now I'm using bio canna and it smells like sugar. So yes I highly recommend switching from organics to veganics

lol yeah I choose all my products based on smell...

ever smelled a 3 day old barley enzyme tea??? LOL most people would chuck that immediately...I chuck it into some h20 and then feed my ladies Smell is not everything...


"Preaching, so that's what they call it?"


[video=dailymotion;x675g6]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x675g6_dusty-springfield-son-of-a-preacher_music#.USPBQIlevjM[/video]

Cann said:

lol yeah I choose all my products based on smell...

ever smelled a 3 day old barley enzyme tea??? LOL most people would chuck that immediately...I chuck it into some h20 and then feed my ladies Smell is not everything...


"Preaching, so that's what they call it?"


[video=dailymotion;x675g6]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x675g6_dusty-springfield-son-of-a-preacher_music#.USPBQIlevjM[/video]

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Lol. Comfrey makes one stink ass FPE.

Cann said:

lol yeah I choose all my products based on smell...

ever smelled a 3 day old barley enzyme tea??? LOL most people would chuck that immediately...I chuck it into some h20 and then feed my ladies Smell is not everything...


"Preaching, so that's what they call it?"


[video=dailymotion;x675g6]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x675g6_dusty-springfield-son-of-a-preacher_music#.USPBQIlevjM[/video]

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Yeah well an iguana juice smells like rotten fish and I water by hand and my hands and arms would stink , I had to always take a shower after feed my plants and it would make my grow room smell like a dirty fish tank after feedings, now with use bio canna + compost tea, no more fish smell , I'm lovin it!!

keep spendin that $$$ at the dro store...

Cann said:

keep spendin that $$$ at the dro store...

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Haha I can't tell if your jokin or just trying to be a dick, but my plants make me $$ so I spend a little on them to keep them happy....and I do make my own compost tea so idk really what your referring to??

RedMan420 said:

Haha I can't tell if your jokin or just trying to be a dick, but my plants make me $$ so I spend a little on them to keep them happy....and I do make my own compost tea so idk really what your referring to??

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He's trying to help, but he is a dick a about it. Hydro store or a farm supply store; whatever floats your boat.

I source materials wherever I can personally but my local grow stores don't stock dry soil amendments only bottled nutes. Funny thing is the owner only grows organic lol. I seem to save good ordering from organic coops. Farm supply stores are great too and I even use hardware stores like Ace. I did the bottled thing and meh I now spend fraction of what I did when I switch to all dry amendments. I spend about 300 or less a year to grow what used to cost me about 1500. I get better results with less money. If people want to use bottles more power to them as long as they get the same results. I know better.....

has anyone tried using bio canna nutes with the humboldt mix from humboldt nutrients? im a first time grower and im stuck dead in my tracks on what grow media to use. ive gone back and forth in my head for months between making my own peat/coir mix, or just running a bagged soiless or combining a few different bagged soiles mixes. im thinking about trying either the humboldt mix or promix hp and adding some coir, EWC, and a little bit of ancient forest, with ammendments. i've asked a few times on here already and got some pretty good advise, but does anyone have any suggestions on a media/s (bagged, combined, or made from scratch) that can produce the same or similar results to the bio terra plus, when used with bio canna's nutes? i probably should have been a little more specific on my last post.

Biobizz light mix will let you have more control over feeding Biobizz allmix will have more amendments in it. Either way these soils were made to run with molasses base nutrients and as long as you're okay with EWC they will work in veganics.

I've found it doesn't hurt to cut with ss#4 organic and a little extra perlite, especially for seedlings and freshly rooted cut.

Awesome thread, I have some major reading to do. Does anyone have any information to offer on a product called ecoscraps? Either their compost mix, liquid compost or their potting mix? It caught my attention while searching for mushroom compost on the web.

the reason i like the no animial is because of all things mad cow and ecolli. mad cow would be in the bone and ecoilli in shit. also i seen what bio vega etc at work and I like it. if that is done with plants only . I happy. and if I can make it my self I even more happy. wehi use to make compost tea with shit and the worst it smelled the better. I learn that was all wrong and now the sweeter the tea smelles the better. I like the way this is going. when even the tea you use can be tested for life and the kind of life needed for what I grow . :>

I'm glad we can ALL finally agree that EWC is a controversial issue in veganic growing. Only 5 pages later . Lol.

I still haven't had a reply back from the vegan organic network, maybe someone else can email them as well. I'm assuming they don't have any motivation to answer the email so they haven't...

Some of us have the time, the means, and the attitude to go through what the average person feels is too much trouble to grow. I personally have gotten into outdoor composting without worms since the Fall when I realized I would need much more compost for my outdoor edible garden this year. But for people that are growing in containers indoors, and not doing any major outdoor gardening or living on or close to a farm...it's just a lot easier to buy a few bottled or bagged products that are good for our plants...and to recycle or reuse those bags and containers. And I don't mean easier in the sense of cutting corners. I mean easier in the sense that not everyone can dedicate so much time to growing in the most organic matter possible. Not everyone can be an elitist with this stuff, some of us have to settle for almost perfect.

The reason a lot of people are choosing "veganic" as a way of growing their medicine in containers indoors is because the taste and quality are superior to flowers grown with poop. It's that simple. It's not a huge difference, but I'm sure any of you guys that are following tradition and using the ultimate in veganic methods already know that. Well the people growing indoors with bottles and bags have noticed the difference too, and they're not trying to save the world with the way they grow pot, they're trying to save themselves more than likely.

So if you guys, Cann and Rising Moon, could figure out a way to guide growers that are still ignorant to the fact that they are not growing in a truly veganic manner without talking down to them or alienating yourselves from others by being smarter than everyone else and absolutely smug about it...you could be very valuable to people, instead of just raising conflicts left and right. That's what this site is for after all isn't it? I'd certainly like to get some of that good info from you guys soon when it starts to warm up enough for me to work on the yard outside in a couple weeks! I'd like to start growing better stuff specifically for my worms to eat as well.

By the way, I collected a lot of mulched leaves this fall to make leaf mold with. Does anybody know how long it typically takes before it's usable without it being turned??

Shwagbag said:

Awesome thread, I have some major reading to do. Does anyone have any information to offer on a product called ecoscraps? Either their compost mix, liquid compost or their potting mix? It caught my attention while searching for mushroom compost on the web.

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I've benn using their compost for long time. I love it. I have wondered about their soil .Their site doesn"t give much info other than its made from 25 fruits and veggies, coco coir, and perlite. I'm not sure how much to amend. I just started to use pro mix hp. I just got my first bale. I make my super soil (adjusted) and use that as a base.... I switched from roots organic.

hyroot said:

I've benn using their compost for long time. I love it. I have wondered about their soil .Their site doesn"t give much info other than its made from 25 fruits and veggies, coco coir, and perlite. I'm not sure how much to amend. I just started to use pro mix hp. I just got my first bale. I make my super soil (adjusted) and use that as a base.... I switched from roots organic.

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Thanks hyroot! I'm going to get some of the compost to add to my soil mix. I also am switching from roots to pro-mix BX. My plants are really taking to the lighter mix. We are thinking alike! And nice picture of the Asshole in your avatar! lol

Shwag

i have been using the general organics line with great result until week 3 flower. started getting leaf curl and calcium def. not sure why exactly. i use hygrozyme and both subcultures. is there anything better i could be using? also what about the diamond black and biomarine those are the only ones im not using.

Ok I'm finally getting started on my first vegan organic run. Im a noob to growing but I think I finally got most of this stuff worked out in my head.... fingers crossed. So anyway heres my new revised list of materials, suppliments, and amendments. Pics coming soon.

My Mix:
60% Sunshine #4 Advanced
20% Ancient Forest Humisoil
15% EWC (Natures Solution)
5% Fir Bark
Cut with #3 large and chunky Perlite bringing the total perlite content to around 30%

Nutrients and Suppliments:
Bio Vega
Bio Flores
Bio Rhizotonic
Bio Boost
Cannazyme
Hygrozyme
GO CaMg+
Technaflora Soluble Seaweed
Humboldt Natural Bloom
Natures Nectar Nitrogen
BioAg's Ful-Power, Humisolve, and TM7
Mineral Matrix
Mayan Mycrozyme
Rare Earth Organic Silicate
Pro-Tek Silica
Xtreme Gardening Mykos and Mykos WP
Neem Oil
Unsulfured Blackstrap Molassas
Yucca Juice

Amendments: (could use some help on this one!!!)

Dolomite Lime
Kelp Meal
Alfalfa Meal
Soybean Meal
Vegan Mix
Sparetime Supply's Glacial Rock Dust
Greensand
Azomite
Neem Cake

I'm kinda confused about the amendments, particularly the Vegan Mix. Its a mixture of all of the amendments listed above, minus the glacial rock dust, dolomite lime, and neem cake. Anyway, my question to you guys is.... Do the individual components of the vegan mix put out the same charge as when added in on their own. Im wondering if I should just return the kelp meal, soybean meal, alfalfa meal, greensand, and azomite to the hydro store and just go with the vegan mix like Matt does. And if I do just go with the 1 mix, should I multiply the recommended application of the vegan mix by 5x? That would be 1x for every item in the mix. Or should I just go with all of them, using the vegan mix at the recommended application and decreasing the recommended applications of each individual components by a certain % to compensate for the Vegan Mix? Im kinda concerned that adding too many individual amendments will create something kinda like a vegan super soil cutting out my need for the biocanna nutes, and I really dont want to go that route.(not sure if thats a valid concern or not lol). I didn't realize how confusing this amendment business can be. Then again I might just be overthinking things. Anyhow, I could really use some help on this one, I really dont want to fuck up my first grow by not understanding the amendments I plan on using. That would definately be a noob move lol.