Veg only lighting, please help

Hello fellow forum members, I have lived in the Great State of California most of my life and have been completely oblivious to the medical benefits offered by cannabis. This past year I was in a sever motorcycle accident, after a large quantity of medic opinions as to which pills I should or should not be taking for pain management the rest of my life, I confronted my doctor and told him I didn't want to be strung out on pills and I pleaded with him to find an alternative, long story short, I have been issued my MMP license. I have decided to try and grow a small amount of medicine for myself being that I am currently unable to work and have limited amounts of money. I have googled till my fingers are numb, and trolled forum after forum however I can not find a definitive answer. I am simply seeking Information regarding lighting for veg only. First i will give you a small amount of information to what I have and am currently using then I will give you my questions (thanks in advance to all who can help)

1 GHS The Church
2 48" t12 two bulb fixture (6500k)
1 3X4x8 closet

I currently growing 1 seedling as this is my first grow and I know relatively nothing short of what I read being that I have no experience. Here are my questions

1.) is using a single t12 fixture sufficient to veg the seedling? if so how big should I allow it to get before using the other fixture? Or should I just hook them both up and run them no matter?

2.) Would I be better off running a few high powerd CFLs? are there any difference in growth rates between say a 210w cfl and 4 t12 40w bulbs?

3.) I dont really have the money but if necessary would I be better of buying a t5 fixture? say 2-4 bulbs for vegging?

Bonus.) Are there any real significant advantages of one bulb over the others? if so, What? I have been trying to research this as much as I cant however most of the information available on the internet seems to be simple "Hey bro nice set up" "gee thanks man"

+Rep for anyone who can take the time to give me some straight facts, again, thank you in advance.

LittleJohn said:

Hello fellow forum members, I have lived in the Great State of California most of my life and have been completely oblivious to the medical benefits offered by cannabis. This past year I was in a sever motorcycle accident, after a large quantity of medic opinions as to which pills I should or should not be taking for pain management the rest of my life, I confronted my doctor and told him I didn't want to be strung out on pills and I pleaded with him to find an alternative, long story short, I have been issued my MMP license. I have decided to try and grow a small amount of medicine for myself being that I am currently unable to work and have limited amounts of money. I have googled till my fingers are numb, and trolled forum after forum however I can not find a definitive answer. I am simply seeking Information regarding lighting for veg only. First i will give you a small amount of information to what I have and am currently using then I will give you my questions (thanks in advance to all who can help)

1 GHS The Church
2 48" t12 two bulb fixture (6500k)
1 3X4x8 closet

I currently growing 1 seedling as this is my first grow and I know relatively nothing short of what I read being that I have no experience. Here are my questions

1.) is using a single t12 fixture sufficient to veg the seedling? if so how big should I allow it to get before using the other fixture? Or should I just hook them both up and run them no matter?

2.) Would I be better off running a few high powerd CFLs? are there any difference in growth rates between say a 210w cfl and 4 t12 40w bulbs?

3.) I dont really have the money but if necessary would I be better of buying a t5 fixture? say 2-4 bulbs for vegging?

Bonus.) Are there any real significant advantages of one bulb over the others? if so, What? I have been trying to research this as much as I cant however most of the information available on the internet seems to be simple "Hey bro nice set up" "gee thanks man"

+Rep for anyone who can take the time to give me some straight facts, again, thank you in advance.

Click to expand...

Here I'll keep it real simple I will use my grow for an example. I use 26 Watt cfl's 6500K up to 6 during veg 1 plant LA Woman vegged for 30 days in a milk crate potted up to 3 gal. pot and I've been flowering with 1 42Watt 3000K, 4 30Watt 2700K,and 3 26Watt 6500K. My medium is FFOF and during veg I only used molasess and water. Started using FF Big Bloom nutes for last 2 weeks of veg and during flowering stronger feedings in between waterings and I have pics of her takin a few days ago you tell me. Keep in mind only 1 plant. 2 sets of pictures for you to look at one is veg pic's and the others are a few days ago about 3 and a half weeks into flowering.

P.O.

LittleJohn said:

1.) is using a single t12 fixture sufficient to veg the seedling? if so how big should I allow it to get before using the other fixture? Or should I just hook them both up and run them no matter?

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I would suggest more light. I'm about to replace a MH with a t5 fixture for my veg closet, and I plan on going with an 8 tube fixture, with another 1 or 2 4 bulb fixtures for the sides (additional light for when they get taller and the overhead isn't penetrating the canopy as well).
In your situation, I would simply add as much light as you can afford. By all means, don't give up just because you can't create the ideal lighting, but do try to go with as much light as you can get. Even for seedlings, 2-4 tubes is ok, so you're far from having too much light.

LittleJohn said:

2.) Would I be better off running a few high powerd CFLs? are there any difference in growth rates between say a 210w cfl and 4 t12 40w bulbs?

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I'm not all that familiar with t12's, they are not as common in my experience as CFL's and t5's. I was able to find this site which gives good info on them (http://ateam.lbl.gov/Design-Guide/DGHtm/historyandproblemsoft12fluorescentlamps.htm), which leads me to think you'd be better off with either the CFL's, or t5's. t5's are pretty much the newest/best flo choice at this point.

LittleJohn said:

3.) I dont really have the money but if necessary would I be better of buying a t5 fixture? say 2-4 bulbs for vegging?

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If you can afford it yes, and the more bulbs the better. If you can find something inexpensive with 6-8 tubes and individual reflectors, that's the best you're going to get from flo's.

LittleJohn said:

Bonus.) Are there any real significant advantages of one bulb over the others? if so, What? I have been trying to research this as much as I cant however most of the information available on the internet seems to be simple "Hey bro nice set up" "gee thanks man"

Click to expand...

Not sure if you mean an advantage to using more than one bulb simultaneously, or if you mean differences between specific bulbs. If you mean number of bulbs, yeah, for the most part with flo's the more bulbs the better (the closer they are placed together the better too). If you are asking about individual bulbs, yes. You are looking for specific spectrum, mostly peaks in ~450 and ~650nm bands. Many bulbs will have a spectral chart which 'for the most part' will be accurate and you can gauge the peaks and find a good spectrum. In veg the plant will utilize a little more of the blue spectrum (the ~450nm peak), and in flower they will use more of the red's (the ~650nm peak). Photosynthesis is slightly more efficient in the ~650nm area, but you are still best off mixing these two spectral peaks. I've got a formula around here somewhere for converting light frequency to kelvin rating (the two measure different things so it's not perfect, but there is a relationship between the two which leads to the formula), but I'm having trouble finding it. Once I find it I'll post that for you as well, since kelvin is how most bulbs will be labeled.

Alright, found the formula. N = Frequency (in nanometers), K = kelvin temperature.

N = 3000000 / K
K = 3000000 / N

When using this you need to understand that the frequency is a measure of one particular color (wavelength) of light. Kelvin refers to a collection of color bands of light (basically a collection of many different frequencies). However, in *most* applications this conversion will give you an idea of where the peak band for that kelvin rating is, and at the very least will tell you what kelvin range to be looking at bulb spectrum charts in.

Ok, I have found these ;
lighting 1 , lighting 2 , lighting 3 The only real difference I can find between the two 4bulb fixtures is simply the finish. Am I correct in this assessment? If so, is 4 bulbs enough to grow a plant to full maturity, before I use a HPS to flower? I Ideally want a 2-4 foot plant to keep as a mother and then use the cuttings to produce. how much more of a benefit would I be able to acquire with a six bulb over a four bulb since its only 10k lumen roughly speaking.

Any one of those would work fine to veg a single plant (maybe 2 or 3 even).

Keeping a mother going can be a real pain esp if you are space constrained. I clone the current veg crop just before I put them into flower. Rinse and repeat. This way i always have plants ready to flower. My clones of clones were showing pre flower while rooting in the cloner. Once I put them into flower I expect them not to stretch as much since they are sexually mature when but into flower.

My Orginal plan was to do as you are doing but there is really no need to maintain a mother unless you have a Sativa strain that takes forever to finish.

T5's rock for Veg.

LittleJohn said:

Ok, I have found these ;
lighting 1 , lighting 2 , lighting 3 The only real difference I can find between the two 4bulb fixtures is simply the finish. Am I correct in this assessment? If so, is 4 bulbs enough to grow a plant to full maturity, before I use a HPS to flower? I Ideally want a 2-4 foot plant to keep as a mother and then use the cuttings to produce. how much more of a benefit would I be able to acquire with a six bulb over a four bulb since its only 10k lumen roughly speaking.

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Can't really tell from their pics if they have individual reflectors in those, or one large reflector for all bulbs. The first one certainly looks like it isn't using individual reflectors. that is really the main thing I would look for, however, they are more expensive, so your budget might dictate. If you can't afford something with individual reflectors, then any of those three look great.

I have been looking at all the stuff available via HTG, and I found "MH" for roughly the same cost, now I know from all the forum banter back and forth that HID lights are the best of the best (assuming that heat is not going to be an issue) Im working with a closet mind you, and on average it stays with the t12s around 45-50% Relative Humidity and around 82-84 F (germ/seedlings are located on the top shelf in closet near the ceiling)

How much higher would the temps shoot with a 250w, or 400W, MH? Im seeing that on that sight they rank comparatively to the T5s (cost) and from my understanding a t5 fixture using 5k lumen bulbs are still just 5k lumen fixtures regardless of the number of bulbs in the fixture. If that is true then Is the MH truly producing the 20,000+ lumen and the t5 is only producing 5k in lumen?

I do have a fan in the closet blowing air, would I be better off sticking with a 6 bulb t5 and just keeping it really close to the plants? or should I for roughly the same amount of money get the 250/400 MH... If so which would be the most benefical given circumstances, both say that they cover around 3squar feet. I am trying find something that will allow me once the seedling (Femd) has developed to keep it as a mother and then take 2 or 3 clones every few months. However the MH concerns me because of the supposed heat issues they have. Thanks for your help guys

Here are the links for the two MHs 200w says its 23k lumen, 400w says its 38k lumen.

@Bonzi Lighthouse ; Well the reason I want to keep a mother is so that I don't have to continually pay for seeds/meds. I figure this way I can simply keep a mother for production. That may be a slight inconvenience but I'm willing to put up with gardening versus having to buy seeds/meds form other people. Not to mention I'm going to have a lot of free time the rest of my life now so gardening cant be a bad hobby to keep me busy.

LittleJohn said:

@Bonzi Lighthouse ; Well the reason I want to keep a mother is so that I don't have to continually pay for seeds/meds. I figure this way I can simply keep a mother for production. That may be a slight inconvenience but I'm willing to put up with gardening versus having to buy seeds/meds form other people. Not to mention I'm going to have a lot of free time the rest of my life now so gardening cant be a bad hobby to keep me busy.

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Yes i understand I will never again grow from seed till i choose to change strains.

What I was suggesting is rather than maintaining a mother, just clone your veglings just prior to them going to flower, your new clones will be ready to flower when their "Mothers" are harvested. Rinse and repeat.... you will always have a crop ready to go into flower. Also you end up with sexually mature clones as they carry the age of their orginal mother that came from seed. These clones are third gen from seed and were showing pre flowers when I cut them. I will take cutting from them just before I put them into flower making their babies 4th gen from seed.