Untrimmed bush! What do I do?

I posted some of this in my DIY thread, but this really isn't about the DIY LEDs or anything anymore, I'm using 8 CFL's only. The LED panels I made are for a future nursery, I think. Anyway, 4 of those bulbs are the 23W daylights, and 4 are 40W "reading" lights which are warmer. 5600K and 2300K, respectively, I think. Oh, and the 23W's are 2600 lumens, and the 40W are 5000 lumens. No hood, but I think I should make one using 1/4" steel mesh (its like chicken wire but square 1/4" holes) and a sheet of visqueen. Each 40W are supposed to equal 150W incandescent.

Its "Day 36" since planting, turning out to be quite the little bush. I believe its going to be female; aren't they bushier than males? I know about the 12/12 sexing, and I'm not sure when I want to start that... I want it to be at least twice as wide or at least 3 times taller. Its also very dense, does anybody have any thoughts about how or why that is? Or how I can get it to grow OUT instead of IN..? I haven't cut the top yet either, and I've only trimmed the first 1x leaves and the first 3x leaves. Also, I thought this was going to be an indica, but these leaves are so long that its either a sativa or hybrid. It was just bagseed, and the only one to germinate...

So, I was thinking.. I only have this one girl, and I'm not interested in spending $200-$500 on a dozen seeds. I don't want feminized because you can do that yourself to males using a spray or some ripening fruit before the sex organs appear. I want to branch-clone, and was thinking of using the clones to flower and keep this one in veg. Or should I veg the clones and flower the mamma?

Also I've noticed that the leaves "relax" the longer the day goes... In the mornings its at attention and the leaves are horizontal to the floor, and in the evenings they droop. I'll try to get another shot when its more ERECT lol (god I hope its not male!) and show all the extra leaves on the interior. I have no idea where they think they're growing because there's no room unless those branches extend. I've lowered it from the light, thinking it might stretch out a little. I'd really like to get some advice on this.

Edit: I water every two days, and once a week I give it a little scoop of this 20-20-20 "all purpose" nute, because its really cheap and is full of all the micronutrients too. Humidity is steady around 30%, and temperature is usually 82F give-or-take 2 degrees. Without the lamps, temps would plummet to 65F. I also have a nice wallmounted 'vortex' fan in there on low. Also, two weeks ago I messed up the timer, so it was on RANDOM for a few days, probably confused the hell out of it!

just shave her if the hairs get in the way

just had to reply once i saw the thread title... lol

James87 said:

because its really cheap and is full of all the m

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you always reap what you sow. if you use cheap stuff you will be getting sub-par results.

Ya bro, looks nice. You would hope your plant is reaching for the lights during the whole light cycle, maybe it's to much for her that close??

jesus of Cannabis said:

you always reap what you sow. if you use cheap stuff you will be getting sub-par results.

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I was thinking that, but its not like I have a Llama in the yard to soak a bag of dung with. Here is a link to what I'm using: http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/2/OutdoorLiving/FertilizersGrassSeed/Fertilizers/PRD~0592306P/20-20-20+All+Purpose+Fertilizer.jsp?locale=en $10 for a little box, I think thats cheap but idk it could be average for all I know.

I would be happy with this plant, just let it grow!

actually tying her head down would be good for your yield

James87 said:

bulbs are the 23W daylights, and 4 are 40W "reading" lights which are warmer. 5600K and 2300K, respectively, I think. Oh, and the 23W's are 2600 lumens, and the 40W are 5000 lumens.

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I highly doubt those bulbs put out that much light. Most 23w cfls are around 1200 lumens, and 40w cfls are around 2500 lumens. CFLs typically produce 60 to 70 lumens per watt.

Also, you could put those lights a few inches closer to the plants.

The reason they start to droop at the end of the day is that they are sensing the onset of the dark period. The leaves naturally droop more during the dark times.

lol thats a funny look little plant hahaha
If your going to flower under those lights then your really lucky that its so short, you should just put into 12/12 and hope its female. Itll stretch during the first bit of flower and thatll help get the light to all the leaves. I wouldnt trim it just yet.
What I would do is have half your lights above the plant and the other half squeezed in really close about half way up the plant. And bring them really close. Youd could have the leaves almost touching the lights and still be good. With the lights that far away the plant has no reason to bother lifting up its leaves. it wouldnt get enough light to make it worth the effort to push its leaves up. Of course a bit of drooping is normal near the end of the day as the plant gets ready to sleep. I think your actually in luck that its so damn short considering your using CFL's.

ahhhhhhhh.... change your damn avatar!

dats a sic avatar bro lol um get those lights closer bro ul be starving hur expcaly if your gonna change to 12/12 shes a
pretty cool shrub tho lol

PJ Diaz said:

I highly doubt those bulbs put out that much light. Most 23w cfls are around 1200 lumens, and 40w cfls are around 2500 lumens. CFLs typically produce 60 to 70 lumens per watt.

Also, you could put those lights a few inches closer to the plants.

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The 40's are either 4000 or 5000, but I'm absolutely positive the 23's are 2600 lumens. At least thats what the box says.

Weeks ago, I had that board with the octagonal boxes angle-mounted on the side, and it was about 2" above the plant, and it was actually drying the leaves out! It started looking like nute burn but I was hardly using any at all in the water. It also was toasting the soil, making it very dry after only a day after watering. When I water, I give it a good soak until it drains out the bottom.

I mentioned in the OP that I lowered the plant a little (it was half that distance you see) because its vegging without stretching and has become very dense foliage.. So I lowered it a little. I'm probably going to lower it even more until it opens up more, then raise it back up. I can do that by either adjusting the strings on the lamp or adjusting the base. I want some height to it too so I can install some vertical fluorescents around it. Is there a better way? I like Endur0xX's comment about tying the top down.. If this is a sativa it's going to be taller than it is wide, so maybe I can guide it around in circles to cut down the height.. Maybe put a vertical bulb in the middle. Thoughts?

James87 said:

Untrimmed bush! What do I do?

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[video=youtube;1TiJNewpCnY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TiJNewpCnY[/video]

James87 said:

The 40's are either 4000 or 5000, but I'm absolutely positive the 23's are 2600 lumens. At least thats what the box says.

Weeks ago, I had that board with the octagonal boxes angle-mounted on the side, and it was about 2" above the plant, and it was actually drying the leaves out! It started looking like nute burn but I was hardly using any at all in the water. It also was toasting the soil, making it very dry after only a day after watering.

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I've never seen any cfls with that high of outputs, so I think you have been lied to. Like I said, cfls put out 60 to 70 lumens per watt.

Take a look at these links to some cfls with posted lumen ratings, and you will see that 23w cfls put out 1600 lumens, and 42 watt cfls put out 2600 lumens.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202913023/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100686997/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202067799/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Your plants are burning from heat, because you don't have adequate ventilation -- getting good ventilation and getting your max temps below 85F (preferably below 80F) should be your #1 priority right now.

PJ Diaz said:

I've never seen any cfls with that high of outputs, so I think you have been lied to. Like I said, cfls put out 60 to 70 lumens per watt.

Take a look at these links to some cfls with posted lumen ratings, and you will see that 23w cfls put out 1600 lumens, and 42 watt cfls put out 2600 lumens.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202913023/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100686997/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202067799/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Your plants are burning from heat, because you don't have adequate ventilation -- getting good ventilation and getting your max temps below 85F (preferably below 80F) should be your #1 priority right now.

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You're right, the 23's are 1600 lumens, and the 40's are 2600. Goes to show what "absolutely positive" means, and thanks for reminding me.

For ventilation, with the box volume and vent rating, I calculated it vents the whole box in about a minute. I had a floor-standing fan (on low) that I couldn't point directly at the plant because it was fluttering so hard, so I moved it for indirect circulation that still fluttered the leaves. I changed the fan and its not a problem anymore. Max temp is 84, and during the off hours drops to about 70. In the summers here, its common for temps outside to reach 100F with 95% humidity, and outdoor growing has always been good when the animals don't eat it. As far as I knew, keeping temps down helps cut down the mold, but the humidity is pretty low anyway, and ventilation is good right now. If I add more lights then I will have a temp problem, I think.

LOL potpimp...

great minds think alike i hear

James87 said:

Max temp is 84, and during the off hours drops to about 70. In the summers here, its common for temps outside to reach 100F with 95% humidity, and outdoor growing has always been good when the animals don't eat it. As far as I knew, keeping temps down helps cut down the mold, but the humidity is pretty low anyway, and ventilation is good right now. If I add more lights then I will have a temp problem, I think.

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If you make nighttime day (lights on at night/off at day), you can help to beat the hot daytime hours.

Photos are about 6 hours after I took those last ones.. Leaves down, it looks like a round ball of bush. Leaves up, see for yourself:

weird, I guess it must have runted when you had your lights on "random" hahah random... thats got to be the worste photoperiod ever lol

how tall did you want it to get?

Thedillestpickle said:

how tall did you want it to get?

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The box is 7' high inside, and the plant is elevated about 4' so the lights don't have to hang low. I can adjust those lights to be at any height.. There's plenty of room for it to grow tall, right now I just want it to be wider. The plan is to take the lower branches and root them so I have 2 more pots, then I can turn the lights 90 degrees and hang them in the middle-center of the box, and use vertical bulbs in each corner. How tall do I want them? 5 or 6 feet.

I was thinking of getting some pvc tubing to run vertically and spaced a foot apart, all around the walls. Reservoir on the bottom, pumps to trickle down from the top.. Run vertical lights in the middle of the box. Then do a hydro op with plants coming out of the pvc every foot or so. Has this been thought of before? Like some kind of hanging gardens.

James87 said:

The box is 7' high inside, and the plant is elevated about 4' so the lights don't have to hang low. I can adjust those lights to be at any height.. There's plenty of room for it to grow tall, right now I just want it to be wider. The plan is to take the lower branches and root them so I have 2 more pots, then I can turn the lights 90 degrees and hang them in the middle-center of the box, and use vertical bulbs in each corner. How tall do I want them? 5 or 6 feet.

I was thinking of getting some pvc tubing to run vertically and spaced a foot apart, all around the walls. Reservoir on the bottom, pumps to trickle down from the top.. Run vertical lights in the middle of the box. Then do a hydro op with plants coming out of the pvc every foot or so. Has this been thought of before? Like some kind of hanging gardens.

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Yea its been done, look at Jigfresh's "flooded tube" 600 watt grow, Ill find the link in a minute. Its brilliant and from what Ive been seeing online its the best use of light out of any other method(except for outdoor). There are some grows out there that are producing upwards of 3GPW. All of the grows ive seen done like this are with either 400w 600w or 1000w HID lights and it can be done even in a small closet with a 600watter if you have good venting(and maybe a cool-tube). Check it out, Id love to see another one of these done so I hope you go for it. BTW shorter little stupid plants like yours are fucking perfect for this method!!!

I guess you could call it a vertical SOG. Theres a guy on ICmag that does this I cant remeber his name right now, someone will have to remember it for me.

https://www.rollitup.org/vertical-growing/482729-vertical-flooded-tube-v-3-a.html this guy has videos... smoke a joint before you watch em

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/393811-jigfreshs-closet-flooded-tube-vert.html This is exactly what you described but with a 1000watt instead of CFL's

Heath Robinson is a well known name around ICmag.com youll have to search for his vertical flooded PVC grow. He goes all out with a massive octagon shaped 5 layered DWC contraption around a single 600watt light and its fucking amazing!