Uncle Ben's Topping Technique to Get 2 or 4 Main Colas

DonPowelleone said:

I never said it was your problem... i didnt mean any offence by it... let me explain what i mean.

Click to expand...

Uncle Ben said:

Some eye candy fer ya'll on one of my crosses grown outdoors - Positronics Haze X Sensi Skunk ~

Seedling in germ cup topped to get 4 main colas. Notice how leggie it is:

Here you show an example of you using your method of topping to get 4 colas ^^..... but thats doesnt look like you topped at the second true node to me?

This is what i meant by you seemed to contradict yourself, by explaining how to do it one way, then doing it a different way yourself.

Click to expand...

There are two levels of two opposing leafsets, nodes, in that shot. There are no contradictions when it comes to hormonal responses, it is what it is. FWIW, that plant was buried up to the first leafsets and produced 4 main colas. It's foolproof.

For a better thread on the subject which includes a revised FAQ, try here - http://riddlem3.com/index.php/topic,1106.0.html The 2nd photo in that thread shows the attached cotyledons too. It's a side shot. Also shows the outward growth characteristic the other member was concerned about.

Don't try to make this out harder than it is. It's so simple even a cave man can do it.

Having said that, are you here to argue using rhetorical "gotcha" questions or you growing a garden and having topping issues?

UB

Uncle Ben said:

There are two levels of two opposing leafsets, nodes, in that shot. There are no contradictions when it comes to hormonal responses, it is what it is. FWIW, that plant was buried up to the first leafsets and produced 4 main colas. It's foolproof.

For a better thread on the subject which includes a revised FAQ, try here - http://riddlem3.com/index.php/topic,1106.0.html The 2nd photo in that thread shows the attached cotyledons too. It's a side shot. Also shows the outward growth characteristic the other member was concerned about.

Don't try to make this out harder than it is. It's so simple even a cave man can do it.

Having said that, are you here to argue using rhetorical "gotcha" questions or you growing a garden and having topping issues?

UB

Click to expand...

yes i can see you have topped to get 4 colas in the shot, but my point was it wasnt done at the second node. i was just under the impression from this thread that it was very important to do it at that exact point otherwise you wouldnt end up with 4 COLAS, you would end up with just a 'bushy plant'.

I will check this link however it wont let me see it atm as i am not signed up.

haha this is the thing ub, i have been topping ever since my second grow, but at that time i didnt realise there was a certain time to do it, i have always done it roughly around the 5th or 6th node but would vary from time to time and i have always ended up with numerous tops and an overall way more bushy plant and it has always increased my yield significantly, however i cant say i have ever got it to the point of producing 4 massive main colas like in your pictures where they clearly dominate all the other branches. This is why i was so picky and detailed in my point to you about where exactly to top incase this was a very important part.

Of course not, i have better things to do with my time than to pick silly arguments with people over the internet, i thought my point was valid enough to fire over to you, as i say there was no offence intended im just trying to understand your method fully without any doubt left in my mind. i.e IS IT SO IMPORTANT THAT YOU HAVE TO DO IT ON EXACTLY THE SECOND NODE? a simple yes or no answer to that is all im lookin for from YOU rather than someone else lol (this was the thing that i became unsure about) and just to add, i agree with you that a somewhat simple technique has been made alot more complicated because of the amount of people that have debated the specifics with different oppinions on this thread that have made it very confusing (which they will not have intended to do of course, they will have just been trying to help out) You clearly no your shit and i personally have learnt a thing or two from reading your threads, as i said in my first post i appreciate that....

PS just checked the riddle link you gave me -

"Q - Can I cut above the 3rd or 4th node?

A - You can, but you won't get the same effect regarding bulked up main colas. I came up with this simple technique in order to increase main cola production from 1..... to 2 or 4. If you want alot of bud sites and a bushier plant, then top at say.....the 8th node, but, that's not my technique as described."

Click to expand...

This is the reason i got so confused, from reading these instructions by you and then seeing your example i quoted above. I hope you can see now i was genuine with my query and not just trying to simply irritate you lol.


Thanks again UB...

DonPowelleone said:

PS just checked the riddle link you gave me -


[/FONT][/COLOR]This is the reason i got so confused, from reading these instructions by you and then seeing your example i quoted above. I hope you can see now i was genuine with my query and not just trying to simply irritate you lol.


Thanks again UB...

Click to expand...

One point to make as you research it. The horizontal branch UB refers to is also called a Lateral Meristem. The point where you cut is referred to as the Apical Meristem. Wherever you cut the apical meristem the hormonal response causes the lateral meristems to attempt to be the top.
Hope that helps and doesn't cause more confusion. His post on the other site is even better.

Would the same uncle ben 4 cola topping technique apply if I am only veg'ing for 3 weeks and flowering for 9 weeks? If I top them above the second node when they reach 6 nodes total, I am concerned the plant won't grow tall enough if it is flipped over to 12 hour cycles less than a week after topping.

DonPowelleone said:

yes i can see you have topped to get 4 colas in the shot, but my point was it wasnt done at the second node.

Click to expand...

Doesn't matter as long as you know what you're doing and understand hormonal responses. I explained what I did in a previous post to get the outcome I was seeking but you either ignored what I wrote of it went right over your head. I'll try this again and talk real slooooooooooooooooooow.

1. There are 2 opposing leafsets left on the image you used. Check ~

2. The seedling is gonna be buried up to the first node, the lower leafsets, that will remain above ground. Check ~

3. The hormonal responses will be such that foliar output will occur in the axis of where the leaf petioles are attached to the "trunk", at the two nodes above ground. Check ~

Got it? It's all about hormonal responses which I've tried to get thru to you guys in a hundred posts.

Uncle Ben

Lot of bullshit for something so easy.
This tech. works great with sativas or indicas i tried on both hash plants & a jack h. cross.
On 2 of the hash plants the 1st node was very tiny so i trimmed the 1st node off w a razor blade and topped above what would have been the 3rd node now the 2nd.
UBs pic looks like he trimmed off a couple or 3 nodes then topped above the 2nd node left on the seedling.

The plants i topped are just as tall as the 1s i didn't and they have 4 beautiful main colas.
I will do this to all my plants from now on.Next time i'll try 1 w 2 mains to compare results.

Simple easy and effective.
I got it easy.Hormonal response is simple,there are many places on the web to read about this.
Thanks U.B. you da man!

How do people not get this yet? F**k me like...

LOL. i have obv jus looked far too deep into it and took the littlest remarks too seriously. as i say i have always topped my plants where i have topped around the 5th or 6th node left 4 branches and cut off all the lower branches similar to what u had done in your pic..

But when i read - Q - Can I cut above the 3rd or 4th node?

A - You can, but you won't get the same effect regarding bulked up main colas. I came up with this simple technique in order to increase main cola production from 1..... to 2 or 4. If you want alot of bud sites and a bushier plant, then top at say.....the 8th node, but, that's not my technique as described

I took that as a straight NO, as in anything above the second node and it wont work, but if you would have described in more detail it would of said - "you can, as long as you trim the other branches off so there are only 4 left".... but yeah like i say i have just taken too many opinions on board about this and just let it confuse me way more than it ever should of done. haha i feel stupid now but at least i asked and got my answer - surely u can see why i got so confused tho with this whole thread (or if not at least pretend u can for my sake haha)

Thanks for the help anyway guys, after all this im back to using the technique as i always have done before even reading this thread - great progress! lol.

UB - Thanks for all of the great info. Is it ok to top and then clean up all the bottom branches at the same time? I veg for 3 weeks and flower for 9 and have been under the impression that I should top the plants about 5 days before I flip to flower, and then clean up the bottom branches in the middle of week 2 of flower after they finish their initial growth spurt and are just starting to show little flowers sprouting. I was told that if you clean up the bottom stuff too early you may cause the plant to stretch too much and become leggy. Does this sound correct, or should I both top and clean up the bottom about 5 days before I flip to flowering.

tomahawker said:

UB - Thanks for all of the great info. Is it ok to top and then clean up all the bottom branches at the same time? I veg for 3 weeks and flower for 9 and have been under the impression that I should top the plants about 5 days before I flip to flower, and then clean up the bottom branches in the middle of week 2 of flower after they finish their initial growth spurt and are just starting to show little flowers sprouting. I was told that if you clean up the bottom stuff too early you may cause the plant to stretch too much and become leggy. Does this sound correct, or should I both top and clean up the bottom about 5 days before I flip to flowering.

Click to expand...

If you have yellowing non productive leafsets then cut them off no matter how you grow.

Stretch has nothing to do with this. When someone feeds you bullshit, put them to task as to why, botanically speaking.

DonPowelleone said:

I took that as a straight NO, as in anything above the second node and it wont work,.....

Click to expand...

OK, and I still don't think you have your mind wrapped around the concepts of hormonal responses, which is what this thread is all about. Most of you can't see the forest for the trees. You're so damned concerned about bud production that you don't pay enough attention to what drives it. Like I've said a million times before, forget about buds and concentrate ONLY on the production and retention of root and leaf mass, until harvest.

but if you would have described in more detail it would of said - "you can, as long as you trim the other branches off so there are only 4 left"....

Click to expand...

Wrong, that's not all to it regarding your photo sample again dismissing plant processes and proper culture. If you have nodes that are exposed to light and air, they still have the potential to produce foliar output. If those nodes are buried, the output will be roots which will give the plant more yields due to more uptake of water and salts. Out of dozens of photos I've posted, you just happen to cherry pick one that can cause confusion and then neglected (or out of ignorance) the upcanning technique required to achieve what I wanted to achieve.

Guys like you make something out of nothing by not understanding plant processes, instead going with the forum "he said she said" messages. Push the keyboard away, go to your local library, and check out some books on indoor plant culture and botany.

Good luck,
UB

Uncle Ben said:

OK, and I still don't think you have your mind wrapped around the concepts of hormonal responses, which is what this thread is all about. Most of you can't see the forest for the trees. You're so damned concerned about bud production that you don't pay enough attention to what drives it. Like I've said a million times before, forget about buds and concentrate ONLY on the production and retention of root and leaf mass, until harvest.



Wrong, that's not all to it regarding your photo sample again dismissing plant processes and proper culture. If you have nodes that are exposed to light and air, they still have the potential to produce foliar output. If those nodes are buried, the output will be roots which will give the plant more yields due to more uptake of water and salts. Out of dozens of photos I've posted, you just happen to cherry pick one that can cause confusion and then neglected (or out of ignorance) the upcanning technique required to achieve what I wanted to achieve.

Guys like you make something out of nothing by not understanding plant processes, instead going with the forum "he said she said" messages. Push the keyboard away, go to your local library, and check out some books on indoor plant culture and botany.

Good luck,
UB

Click to expand...

At the end of the day i was just trying to understand your technique to the fullest and yes i was mislead by some of the instructions and conflicting opinions. I didnt cherry pick anything out of ignorance i chose that example because that was the thing that confused me and that was the thing i wanted you to clear up for me.

I understand what happens when u bury the trunk for roots, the thing is i just go so caught up in the second node rule i let that convince me it was a major part to get them exact results. Iv already explained why it had confused me so no need to go over that again, but all i needed was for u to clear it up for me which now u have, and, in the end im back to my original topping ways after learning that there is no actual magic in topping at precisely the "true second node".

I could go to my library, but then what would be the point of this forum? U posted information to help people, i read it, lost my way at one point so asked u to help me out on what i was confused about... I thought thats how this thing worked :/ how can u expect everyone on this forum to 100% understand plant science and not have a question to ask?

If u would of had a one on one conversation with me in real life and explained this to me, then i guarantee i would of understood u from the get go and there would of been no confusion, but cant u see how reading it on a forum with all the other bits of info and oppinions can make things cloudy?

Anyway, thanks for the help....

I didn't want to post on here that i had trimmed a node off and topped it b/c i knew some people trying to understand topping for 2 or 4 colas might get confused and ask UB all kinds of questions that have nothing to do with his topping method and this thread.

When i saw UBs pic i knew exactly what he was doing.
Hell he even said "That plant was buried up to the 1st leaf sets".For ROOTS.
This is common practice with a lot of growers.

If you can't get this by reading this thread(418pgs) you need to do some google research on plants.I do.
Theres a lot of good pics with explainations in this thread if ya read it.

I like it when people nit pik and try to argue with UB about growing methods.
It's a lot of fun to watch!

lol luv the lollipop thread ahaha

tomahawker said:

UB - Thanks for all of the great info. Is it ok to top and then clean up all the bottom branches at the same time? I veg for 3 weeks and flower for 9 and have been under the impression that I should top the plants about 5 days before I flip to flower, and then clean up the bottom branches in the middle of week 2 of flower after they finish their initial growth spurt and are just starting to show little flowers sprouting. I was told that if you clean up the bottom stuff too early you may cause the plant to stretch too much and become leggy. Does this sound correct, or should I both top and clean up the bottom about 5 days before I flip to flowering.

Click to expand...

I topped my plants above the 2nd node when my plants had 5 or 6 nodes ,just how the OP said.
There is no bottom to clean up.

quick question, above my coyteledons my first set of leaves are just single blades. do i count that as a true node?

mcledesma191 said:

quick question, above my coyteledons my first set of leaves are just single blades. do i count that as a true node?

Click to expand...

yes.......!

Hi UB,

I have a few questions about this technique that I was hoping you would help me clarify. I am not sure if these questions have been addressed before on this thread but it is a long thread and although it was my intention to read it all 418 pages are a lot.

1. Does the plant need any vegetation period after it has been topped?

2. Can I send the plants to flower immediately after topping?

3. If I was growing 12/12 from seed (something I am considering) by the time I have 5 or 6 nodes my plant will already be deep into flowering (right?), can I top under these particular conditions?

4. what would be the hormonal response to topping when in flower?

I am planning to grow 8 plants in one gallon pots in a SOG method as my space is small and would like to get the maximum yield possible, therefore my plan to top to get 4 colas.

My growing space is 3 foot high x 3 foot wide x 17 inches depth.

Please let me know if you can help and thanks in advance.

BB.

baseball8008 said:

Hi UB,

I have a few questions about this technique that I was hoping you would help me clarify. I am not sure if these questions have been addressed before on this thread but it is a long thread and although it was my intention to read it all 418 pages are a lot.

1. Does the plant need any vegetation period after it has been topped?

2. Can I send the plants to flower immediately after topping?

3. If I was growing 12/12 from seed (something I am considering) by the time I have 5 or 6 nodes my plant will already be deep into flowering (right?), can I top under these particular conditions?

4. what would be the hormonal response to topping when in flower?

I am planning to grow 8 plants in one gallon pots in a SOG method as my space is small and would like to get the maximum yield possible, therefore my plan to top to get 4 colas.

My growing space is 3 foot high x 3 foot wide x 17 inches depth.

Please let me know if you can help and thanks in advance.

BB.

Click to expand...

The answers are in here, most of them a dozen times.
1. a week, or more IMO. 2. see 1. 3. you could I guess, but I never grow 12/12 from seed. 4. Same hormonal response
8 plants in a 3'x17" sound full to me. They spread wider by his method, but a bit shorter. I'd be doing 2 or 3.

baseball8008 said:

Hi UB,

I have a few questions about this technique that I was hoping you would help me clarify. I am not sure if these questions have been addressed before on this thread but it is a long thread and although it was my intention to read it all 418 pages are a lot.

1. Does the plant need any vegetation period after it has been topped?

2. Can I send the plants to flower immediately after topping?

3. If I was growing 12/12 from seed (something I am considering) by the time I have 5 or 6 nodes my plant will already be deep into flowering (right?), can I top under these particular conditions?

4. what would be the hormonal response to topping when in flower?

I am planning to grow 8 plants in one gallon pots in a SOG method as my space is small and would like to get the maximum yield possible, therefore my plan to top to get 4 colas.

My growing space is 3 foot high x 3 foot wide x 17 inches depth.

Please let me know if you can help and thanks in advance.

BB.

Click to expand...

1. Yes, unless you want a puny plant.

2. Yes

3. Got a problem with vegging a plant?

4. The same output.