Uncle Ben's Topping Technique to Get 2 or 4 Main Colas

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Reclipse

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Ok I read through about 85 pages and kinda got sick of people asking the same damn questions. I will continue to read through all 311 pages sooner than later as I do appreciate UB and b2k's comments as well as some of the additional folk who have stuck their head in here asking legit questions. I hope my questions will help bring about additional info that I hadn't come across yet. If it's covered in the additional 230 pages I haven't ready, my apologies.

My current run is a 12 gallon ebb flow bucket system which I'm redesigning prior to the next run as the 5 gallon pots aren't really doing what I had hoped. I'm just going into week 5 of 12/12 and the vertical growth hasn't been significant. I have 7 Chem Valley Kush (Chemdog x SFV OGK 3), 3 Durban 12 (durban skunk x romulan) and 2 romulan. I had the clones from a very young age and got them pretty quickly after my first run ever so they had about 8-9 weeks of veg time.. some longer. I think they mostly reached their capacity for height based on the stretch i've seen. I may have also limited this due to having 16 plants in a 3x3 veg tray in rockwool cubes.

I originally had 5-6 Kandy Kush (OGK x TW) but they got way too leggy in veg. My roommate got them as 'teens' and they were already pretty large and they stretched like crazy. They also were very purple stemmed from early on which I know is normally a N deficiency. I think the genetics require high N through the veg for the stretch and they just weren't getting enough as they got larger. Knowing this, I do hope I can get these cuts again as I feel they would be great candidates for your 4 cola topping technique due to the stretch and also seeing the yield of some folks here on this site. Definitely will need a much shorter veg time but that's already known to me.

The Kandy Kush is a I/S hybrid that shows a lot of the sativa side in relation to stretch/etc. Do you have much experience with the hybrids or do you stick to straight sativas? Any additional experience in this cropping style with straight indicas and if so have you come across any indicas with the leggy aspects seen in sativas that are NOT hybrids. Do these leggier indicas respond well to the topping technique?

I'm about 4 weeks out from my harvest which puts me at about 5-6 weeks away from dropping a new set of girls into the room with the revised bucket system (3.5 gallon buckets w/ 10" mesh bottom or/full mesh sides - 24 total sites). On my first harvest we took a few days to cut the tops and leave the bottom buds to fatten up a bit. I intend to do this with my current run of 12 girls as well and will be watching the trichromes patiently to optimize my potency of the finished product.

I'm trying to pick up the clones this week (getting 30-36 to allow for topping and the ability to pick the 24 healthiest, happiest, and most evenly grown babies to move into flower) to begin the process.

I am currently on my 2nd grow ever and with the results the first and the current state of the 2nd many have told me that I'm well ahead of the curve where most n00bs are. I base this on spending a lot of time reading forums and also trying to learn more about basic botany and horticulture as well. The mechanisms of how plants work is extremely interesting and has caught my attention very directly. I appreciate the time spent explaining the topic of auxins and plant hormones as this solidifies the information I've recently just sunk my teeth into.

To UB, B2KS, Mehroon, and all of the others that have added positive contributions and formed a fantastic discussion in this thread I thank you. To those of you who have no concept of reading comprehension or even visual (picture) comprehension I feel for you and you should know that there are educational programs that will help you to overcome these obstacles.... although they wont help to beat some simple sense into your head so you stop asking the same questions over and over and over again but phrased ever so slightly different.

I will make it a point to add pics when I get started on this technique for the new cycle. Hopefully my contributions can help others the way other contributions to this thread have helped me.

Cheers!
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Reclipse, welcome to the thread.

Indica or sativa, they will respond the same way - your call. Being that I had/have an infatuation with sativas grown indoors, namely "pure" sativas like Zamal, Vietnamese, Mexican, Flying Dutchmen's Original Haze, etc..... I decided to try to train my sativas in to a shorter stature. That's when I came up with the 4 cola drill. Sometimes it works for one's garden, sometimes it doesn't. For example, my Dalat Viet did the 4 cola profile fine, but it just kept on growing necessitating topping about 6 times, even during flowering. It's an issue of internode length. You do what you have to do.

UB
 
BloodHoundsRule

BloodHoundsRule

Well-Known Member
PB260015.jpgHave a question for you UB. I'm a single plant grower and I just finished up with a Black Jack grow and the plant never did produce a cola on it. More or less just an even canopy with what I would call a terminal bud that stayed the same height through the flowering and harvest time. I did take a clone off it a few days before I switched to 12/12 to keep as a mother plant. Took a clone off of the mother and its in a bubble cloner now waiting to root for my next grow. Would this topping method increase the chance of a better main cola? Thinking of topping the clone once its ready for two colas. Or should I just germinate another bean in hopes of getting a better plant? Here is a picture of the top of the plant the day I switched to 12/12. It pretty much stayed the same except for a clump of buds on it at the end.
 
riddleme

riddleme

Well-Known Member
BloodHoundsRule said:
View attachment 1399642Have a question for you UB. I'm a single plant grower and I just finished up with a Black Jack grow and the plant never did produce a cola on it. More or less just an even canopy with what I would call a terminal bud that stayed the same height through the flowering and harvest time. I did take a clone off it a few days before I switched to 12/12 to keep as a mother plant. Took a clone off of the mother and its in a bubble cloner now waiting to root for my next grow. Would this topping method increase the chance of a better main cola? Thinking of topping the clone once its ready for two colas. Or should I just germinate another bean in hopes of getting a better plant? Here is a picture of the top of the plant the day I switched to 12/12. It pretty much stayed the same except for a clump of buds on it at the end.
Click to expand...
What light are you using???
 
1

1oldgoat

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
Reclipse, welcome to the thread.

Indica or sativa, they will respond the same way - your call. Being that I had/have an infatuation with sativas grown indoors, namely "pure" sativas like Zamal, Vietnamese, Mexican, Flying Dutchmen's Original Haze, etc..... I decided to try to train my sativas in to a shorter stature. That's when I came up with the 4 cola drill. Sometimes it works for one's garden, sometimes it doesn't. For example, my Dalat Viet did the 4 cola profile fine, but it just kept on growing necessitating topping about 6 times, even during flowering. It's an issue of internode length. You do what you have to do.

UB
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UB.While reading about gardening myths, I stumbled upon some research on how to make a plant shorter and still retain proper flower size. Have a read and let us know if you've heard about this.

Pickling your Paperwhites - Using Alcohol to Reduce Growth of Paperwhite Narcissus​
​
William B. Miller
Professor of Horticulture
Director of the Flowerbulb Research Program
Cornell University


The paperwhite narcissus is a popular bulb for indoor forcing in the winter months. Unlike most other daffodils, paperwhites (Narcissus tazetta) do not require a cold period. They are simply planted in pots with soil, or even more commonly, in dishes or bowls with gravel, marbles or other decorative material. With a little water, they rapidly form roots, grow leaves and shoots. The white, fragrant flowers usually open up within 2-3 weeks of planting.

A common problem with paperwhites, however, is that they often grow too tall and flop over.

Recent research conducted by the Flowerbulb Research Program at Cornell University has found a simple and effective way to reduce stem and leaf growth of paperwhites. The "secret" is using dilute solutions of alcohol. Properly used, the result is paperwhites that are 1/3 to 1/2 shorter, with equal sized flowers that last as long as normal.

What to do
We suggest planting your paperwhite bulbs in stones, gravel, marbles, glass beads, etc. as usual. Add water as you normally would, then wait about 1 week until roots are growing, and the shoot is green and growing about 1-2" above the top of the bulb. At this point, pour off the water and replace it with a solution of 4 to 6% alcohol, made from just about any "hard" liquor. You can do the calculations to figure the dilution, but, as an example, to get a 5% solution from a 40% distilled spirit (e.g., gin, vodka, whiskey, rum, tequila), you add 1 part of the booze to 7 parts of water. This is an 8-fold dilution yielding 5% alcohol.

Then, simply use this solution, instead of water, for further irrigation (watering) of your bulbs. It's as simple as that. The result will be a plant that is 1/3 shorter, but with flowers just as large, fragrant, and long-lasting as usual. But, the plant will be nicely proportioned and won't need support stakes, wires, or other gizmos to keep it upright. You will see results within just a few days. You can have some fun by doing a simple experiment having one bowl of bulbs given normal water and the other given the alcohol. You will see a dramatic difference, as shown in the picture. This could be a neat activity to occupy kids during the upcoming holiday season!

A few other thoughts

  • Do not use beer or wine, as the sugars in them will cause major problems with the plants
  • As with humans, paperwhites can also suffer alcohol overdoses! We suggest 4-6% alcohol as a normal and safe range. If plants are given much more than 10% alcohol, growth problems will start, and 25% alcohol is dramatically toxic. So, moderation is the key!
  • It is not strictly necessary pour off the water after the plants are rooted (as we suggest above). You can just as well add your 5% alcohol without pouring the water off. The result, though, will be a lower than optimal alcohol concentration around the roots, and, ultimately, growth will not be reduced as much as you expect. The reason to pour off the water is to simply maximize the alcohol level around the roots.
  • Basically, the higher the alcohol concentration (within reason), the shorter the plants. So it is not critical whether you use 4, 5, or 6% alcohol. Just stay well below 10%, where growth problems become noticeable.
  • If you do not have alcohol for consumption in your household, rubbing alcohol (isopropyl alcohol) works just as well. Since this is usually 70% alcohol when purchased, a dilution of 1 part rubbing alcohol to 10 or 11 parts water is appropriate.
  • Why does this happen? We are currently working on this, but we feel it is simply "water stress", where the alcohol makes it more difficult for the plant to absorb water. The plant suffers a slight lack of water, enough to reduce leaf and stem growth, but not enough to affect flower size or flower longevity.
  • I thank Erin Finan (Cornell '05, horticulture undergrad) who worked on this as a senior project, and to Leslie Land of the New York Times who first posed the question "Does gin affect paperwhites?" to me in early 2005. Jan Doornbosch of International Bulb Co. in New Jersey graciously supplied bulbs, and Group 1 of the Royal Dutch Wholesalers' Association for Flowerbulbs and Nursery Stock, Hillegom, The Netherlands, provided financial support for this work.

​


The effect of alcohol on growth of 'Ziva' paperwhite narcissus. Left: Untreated plant, growing in pebbles with water. Right: Plant in pebbles, grown with 5% alcohol instead of water.
 
Grow'N'Smoke

Grow'N'Smoke

Active Member
1oldgoat said:
UB.While reading about gardening myths, I stumbled upon some research on how to make a plant shorter and still retain proper flower size. Have a read and let us know if you've heard about this.

Pickling your Paperwhites - Using Alcohol to Reduce Growth of Paperwhite Narcissus​
Click to expand...
I have used rubbing alcohol in a hydro system, only a 1:100 ration alcohol to water, for the purpose of reducing bacterial growth (It seems to work quite effectively). I will be taking clones very soon and you can bet that one or two of them will be getting a little drunk after they root to see if this works.

-GNS
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
1oldgoat said:
UB.While reading about gardening myths, I stumbled upon some research on how to make a plant shorter and still retain proper flower size. Have a read and let us know if you've heard about this.
Click to expand...
Never heard of it.

The45King said:
Thanks ub great thread
Click to expand...
Welcome, glad you enjoy it.

Barrelhse said:
Pics of Jillybean from seed. Topped after 2nd true node at 30 days veg.- First 2 pics are from 6 days ago when it was topped, last 4 are from today.
Click to expand...
Looking good, but looks like they need more N. Such a small size after 30 days veg suggests the same.

Good luck,
UB
 
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1oldgoat

Well-Known Member
Barrelhse said:
Pics of Jillybean from seed. Topped after 2nd true node at 30 days veg.- First 2 pics are from 6 days ago when it was topped, last 4 are from today.
Click to expand...
Those are great pics. They should be posted in UB's Topping Technique post. They will put to bed that age old question, "where do I cut to get 4 cola's?".
 
1

1oldgoat

Well-Known Member
Grow'N'Smoke said:
I have used rubbing alcohol in a hydro system, only a 1:100 ration alcohol to water, for the purpose of reducing bacterial growth (It seems to work quite effectively). I will be taking clones very soon and you can bet that one or two of them will be getting a little drunk after they root to see if this works.

-GNS
Click to expand...
Maybe I'll start another thread about it.
 
frogster

frogster

Active Member
Crizzo , I dont like posting this crap on someones thread, but this thread topic is fully understandable, compliments of U.B.. and way too many people ask questions without regard to others time, im wasting mine just telling you this... ie. research a little before you ask a question!... Dont be a lazy person... I wasnt that much of a smart ass... I answered the question and provided a link.... the part of the question concerning up or down is obvious if you learn what a node is: as 1 comes before 2..plants still grow from the ground up unless your using one of those ignorant topsy turvy's.. Google "numbers " heres the link for you if you cant count..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number. I will even post a link for google if you dont know how to google google.. http://www.google.com/ there you happy?, you have now received an official real smart-ass comment..... please pm me for further banter... As I dont wish to banter on UB's thread... I just wanted to express to lazy worthless noobs to not be so lazy and research little... I just reviewed all of my post and found very few noob questions (2) .. . hell Im still a noob,,,,...
 
lbezphil2005

lbezphil2005

Well-Known Member
clwhsr said:
after that great welcome i feel the need to explain q. the plants in pics when topped had no buds. was wondering if there was a cut off point when topping can no longer be done. which i did not see an answer for so i ask "is there a point when you cant/shouldnt top a plant?" sorry im a noob....but werent we all?
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Dude, that was to show what the plant looked like after it was harvested. Why would you want to top a plant that has already been harvested? Just asking
 
lbezphil2005

lbezphil2005

Well-Known Member
convict156326 said:
man if he wanted attitude he'd have gone to another site. wouldnt it have been easier to just answer the question? regardless of how many times its been asked? unsubscribe to poosts if your tired of the questions man. does trying to rag on this guy for trying to learn something new make you feel better about yourself? some of the people on this site are total douchebags. not all of us know this shit. its very very nerve racking.
so yeah i dont mind ill point you in the right direction.
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The only attitude here is you jumping me for telling him to frigging read, bro. Have a nice day!
 
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