UN reports; gaza flotila; 6 humanitarians murdered execution style.

Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
I remember when all this was going on, how all the pro-Israeli people on the boards were saying how the commandos were justified.

This is murder guys, straight up. Bullets to the face and the side of the head at point blank range? 19 years old? 60 years old?

Call it what you want. It's murder. They broke the blockade, OK, that justifies murder?

Could you imagine this happened in Canada with the Canadian military instead of Israeli?

Wonder what would be different...
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
I remember when all this was going on, how all the pro-Israeli people on the boards were saying how the commandos were justified.

This is murder guys, straight up. Bullets to the face and the side of the head at point blank range? 19 years old? 60 years old?

Call it what you want. It's murder. They broke the blockade, OK, that justifies murder?

Could you imagine this happened in Canada with the Canadian military instead of Israeli?

Wonder what would be different...
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That's what commandos do; they kill! They don't arrest, they don't negotiate, they kill! Is it unfortunate? Yes. Do the parties who participated in the flotilla bare any responsiblity? Hell yes! Go and slap a pit bull around and see what happens. Touch a hot stove and see what happens. I bet you get your ass bit and your hand burnt! :dunce:
 
blazin256

blazin256

Well-Known Member
undertheice said:
this isn't rocket science, just four simple words. nothing remains the same. the u.n. of 1947 has little in common with the u.n. of today. just because it is an international body does not mean it is immune to the pettiness of the political squabbling of its member states. the failure of british colonialism and a post ww2 fervor to punish the allies of the axis powers created the israeli state, not the altruism of the u.n. the u.n.'s mission then was to find the equitable solutions to the problems of the world. their mission now has become the elimination of strife by the most expedient possible means. if the destruction of israel brings peace to that area, then they are more than willing to support that destruction.

all of your facts seem to ignore the state of war, both open and undeclared, that israel has existed under since its very inception. how can you even ask how the blockade of palestine can be considered legal, when such strategies are commonplace in nations at war? it is a common way to attempt to strangle the free flow of arms to an enemy and is far more justifiable and peaceable than wantonly tearing through the countryside in search of a foe that so regularly hides behind its children and its women's skirts between rounds of indiscriminately lobbing rockets across the border. the occupation of palestine may not be the most humane possible treatment of its inhabitants, but it is far better than turning the entire area into a slag heap in order to root out israel's foes and far more rational than allowing its enemies a free hand to terrorize the jewish homeland.

the propaganda machines on both sides of this conflict have been constantly working overtime. the images of weeping palestinian mothers lay side by side with those of burned out israeli school buses. the successes of israel, despite the aggressions of its neighbors, have allowed the international community to portray it as an advanced nation taking advantage of the downtrodden palestine. the industrious nature of their society has allowed them to build a formidable military that is capable of making any enemy pay dearly for their aggressions, but those enemies seem not to care that the force they assault is quite capable of annihilating them and their families and their neighborhoods. the innocents that are caught up in the fray are a part of the atrocity that is war, but their numbers on either side are not the point. you may point to the innocent palestinian casualties and how they far outnumber those on the israeli side, but this fact alone doesn't really lead to the laying of any blame.

the blame lies in the racial hatred of a people that have remained insular despite being widespread. the blame lies with an intolerance and overweening pride that has existed for centuries. there is blame to be found in the overzealous elements that are a part of any military structure and there is equal blame to be found in the indiscriminate nature of blind rocket assaults on nonmilitary targets. blame can be laid at the feet of an international media that seeks to inflame the situation with half-truths and outright lies. i could spend all day listing people and organizations that share the onus for this tragedy, but that really doesn't matter. you have chosen to believe the propaganda that fits with your world view. you have chosen to believe that the combatant with the upper hand must be the aggressor. you have chosen to believe that victory only comes through savagery and that, despite third party reports, these israeli savages won't even allow the innocents of palestine humanitarian aid. your blind belief isn't all that amazing, but it is rather sad.
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how about i come to your house, put a gun in your face, give you $100 and tell you to leave. you come back only to find you no longer "own" the house or anything in it. i'd be pretty fuckin pissed about that too. ready to kill even.

Johnnyorganic said:
I stand with Israel.

But I also sympathize with the Palestinians because they are being, and have been, played.

Monumentally.

They are being exploited by outside forces whose only goal is the destruction of Israel.

Before the establishment of the State of Israel; nobody, and I mean nobody, in the Arab world or anywhere else gave two shits about the Palestinians.

In fact, if it were not for Israel, Palestinians would be exactly what they were before the establishment of the State of Israel - a nuisance.

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=167512
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i don't get it. how does jordan revoking palestinian citizenship label them a nuisance?

doc111 said:
Wrong! Great Britain gave the land to the Jews. The U.N. drafted the partition agreement. It was with the blessing of the U.N. that Israel came into being, but the world is a much different place than it was in 1947.:leaf:
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take modern conveniences away and just how different are we?

Padawanbater2 said:
I remember when all this was going on, how all the pro-Israeli people on the boards were saying how the commandos were justified.

This is murder guys, straight up. Bullets to the face and the side of the head at point blank range? 19 years old? 60 years old?

Call it what you want. It's murder. They broke the blockade, OK, that justifies murder?

Could you imagine this happened in Canada with the Canadian military instead of Israeli?

Wonder what would be different...
Click to expand...
exactly..
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Could you imagine this happened in Canada with the Canadian military instead of Israeli?

Wonder what would be different...
Click to expand...
to be fair, less people want to see canada wiped off the face of the earth.

sure, you can call it murder. but they chose to run the blockade. they knew what they were getting into. it was more accurately described as suicide by commando.
 
blazin256

blazin256

Well-Known Member
doc111 said:
That's what commandos do; they kill! They don't arrest, they don't negotiate, they kill! Is it unfortunate? Yes. Do the parties who participated in the flotilla bare any responsiblity? Hell yes! Go and slap a pit bull around and see what happens. Touch a hot stove and see what happens. I bet you get your ass bit and your hand burnt! :dunce:
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too bad the flotila wasn't slapping anybody, but trying to aid a devastated people.
 
Mindmelted

Mindmelted

Well-Known Member
Try bustin through a russian or a chinese blockade and see what happens.
You do stupid shit,you deserve what happens.
 
Mindmelted

Mindmelted

Well-Known Member
Ask 100 people you will get a bunch of diffrent response.

So it does not matter what this jew thinks.
 
Johnnyorganic

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
blazin256 said:
i don't get it. how does jordan revoking palestinian citizenship label them a nuisance?
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Simply an example to demonstrate how Jordan, just one Middle East nation, feels about the Palestinians.

It's not hard to get at all; unless you choose not to understand.

The Middle East nations do not value the Palestinians except as a weapon against Israel.

In the Mid-East, Palestinians are a despised underclass with or without Israel.

It was that way before the State of Israel and nothing has changed since, except the level of hypocrisy on the part of Middle East nations.
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
blazin256 said:
too bad the flotila wasn't slapping anybody, but trying to aid a devastated people.
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Every time Israel has pulled back they have been met with more attacks on INNOCENT CIVILIANS! I'm not saying Israel has never killed any innocent civilians, but much like the U.S. it is not a policy of the government or Israeli military to kill unarmed civilians. Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and Hezbollah want the same thing; the destruction of Israel, period! Hamas is now governing Gaza. Look man, both sides have committed atrocities. This happens in any war. The Israelis have shown time and again a willingness to negotiate. The palestinians on the other hand have shown time and again a complete unwillingness to negotiate. What the hell is Israel supposed to do man?:?
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
Johnnyorganic said:
Simply an example to demonstrate how Jordan, just one Middle East nation, feels about the Palestinians.

It's not hard to get at all.

The Middle East nations do not value the Palestinians except as a weapon against Israel.

In the Mid-East, Palestinians are a despised underclass with or without Israel.

It was that way before the State of Israel and nothing has changed since, except the level of hypocrisy on the part of Middle East nations.
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All you have to do is look at how much aid is given to the Palestinians by other arab nations. That itself is very telling as to how the other arab nations feel about the Palestinians.:sad:


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/26/AR2008072601797.html
 
blazin256

blazin256

Well-Known Member
Johnnyorganic said:
Simply an example to demonstrate how Jordan, just one Middle East nation, feels about the Palestinians.

It's not hard to get at all; unless you choose not to understand.

The Middle East nations do not value the Palestinians except as a weapon against Israel.

In the Mid-East, Palestinians are a despised underclass with or without Israel.

It was that way before the State of Israel and nothing has changed since, except the level of hypocrisy on the part of Middle East nations.
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maybe the u.s. told them to or else they wouldn't get their money.

doc111 said:
All you have to do is look at how much aid is given to the Palestinians by other arab nations. That itself is very telling as to how the other arab nations feel about the Palestinians.:sad:


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/26/AR2008072601797.html
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how would they get the money? they are blockaded remember. the main currency there is the israeli shekel. so what do they use if the israelis don't give them the shekels? hopes and dreams? not all arab countries use the same currency.
http://www.opendemocracy.net/article/cash-flow-in-the-gaza-strip-0
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
blazin256 said:
maybe the u.s. told them to or else they wouldn't get their money.


how would they get the money? they are blockaded remember. the main currency there is the israeli shekel. so what do they use if the israelis don't give them the shekels? hopes and dreams? not all arab countries use the same currency.
http://www.opendemocracy.net/article/cash-flow-in-the-gaza-strip-0
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So there are no banks or U.N. representatives? They don't have cellphones or any infrastructure? I know that they have a lot of infrastructure problems but this IS the 21st century and I'm willing to wager if Yemen said "Hey palestine! We've got $100 million in aid for ya!" I bet they'd find a way to get that money! lol!:bigjoint:
 
blazin256

blazin256

Well-Known Member
what good is a dollar when you use the shekel as currency? what good is a shekel if there are no or very limited to give? yemen would have to convert it to shekels to hold any worth. and i could just imagine how that would go down.
yemen "yea, jews? its yemen. we want to convert $100 million to shekels."
israel "go fuck yourself"
try going to walmart and give them canadian money or pesos.
 
one11

one11

Active Member
Everything will be OK once we abolish this barbaric idea of 'nations with borders', and become...dom dom dom...thhhhhhe Newwwww Wooooooorllllld......................ORDDDDERRRRRRR!
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
blazin256 said:
what good is a dollar when you use the shekel as currency? what good is a shekel if there are no or very limited to give? yemen would have to convert it to shekels to hold any worth. and i could just imagine how that would go down.
yemen "yea, jews? its yemen. we want to convert $100 million to shekels."
israel "go fuck yourself"
try going to walmart and give them canadian money or pesos.
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I've been to a lot of different countries but I've never seen one that didn't accept the good old American Dollar.:bigjoint:
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
What about the Israeli governments roll in this whole thing? I mean their original story has basically been shown to be some kind of cover up to make it look as if they acted within their rights and legal means. They lied about that, and, according to the autopsy report of the 6 civilians killed (one American, when was the last time an allied nation executed an American citizen?), it was murder.

Where's the accountability? It seems as if most of you guys are saying they did act well within their legal means. And still, after these reports come out, you guys defend Israels actions and justify it by using one of the poorest arguments out there "they broke the blockade so they knew exactly what would happen".

I don't really remember all the specifics about this story, and since this went down I honestly stopped giving much of a fuck about the rest of the world. But I'm trying to look at this without a biased perspective, if the civilians breaching the blockade had weapons or intentions to harm IDF forces, then fuck, they're IDIOTS and I'm really not surprised innocent people were killed, because that's exactly the same kind of shit that happens in America on a day to day basis... you flash a cell phone getting out of your car to argue a speeding ticket and you'll most likely end up in a closed casket compliments of the police. But if they were unarmed and were only trying to get the shit into Gaza and this went down how it did, I don't see how anyone could possibly argue in support of IDF. Breaching a blockade isn't justification for murder unless you're positive via visual contact or incredibly credible intel that somebody is carrying a weapon...

Blazin, you are right man, it isn't our freedoms that they hate us for. It's this shit. Stuff just like this, stuff like that video of that Apache taking out that camera crew... foreign occupying forces that just don't give a fuck in general. They're there for their tour, hopefully command knows what's best for the country, they're just following orders...

This is bullshit and it's why, like I said, I stopped giving a fuck about any of it...
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
blazin256 said:
how many countries have you been to that have been blockaded by israel?
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Ummm, I've been to Israel bro. Twice! Let's get a couple of things straight. Israel isn't preventing everything from getting in. In Southern gaza there are numerous tunnels, some big enough to drive a semi through, which are bringing goods in from Sinai, Egypt. The blockade, while it's a pretty aggressive one, isn't excluding everything from getting in. The Israelis are letting food aid and medicine in. They are blockading construction materials and fuel, among other things, and their reasoning is to prevent them from making bombs and weapons. They are making bombs out of coffee cans for chrissakes! This is a country that has had kids walk into crowded markets and night clubs with the sole intent of killing as many innocent women, and children as possible. The Israelis build a wall, they get criticized. They halt settlements they are criticized. I've talked to many Israelis and I never met one who didn't have a relative or friend who has been killed whether it be by suicide bomber or indscriminate rocketing of neighborhoods. No matter what Israel does someone criticizes. At the end of the day Israel has to do what it has to do to protect its citizens. Israel isn't going anywhere (not for a long time at least). Why can't the arabs figure this out? You mess with the bull you get the horns!:fire:
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
What about the Israeli governments roll in this whole thing? I mean their original story has basically been shown to be some kind of cover up to make it look as if they acted within their rights and legal means. They lied about that, and, according to the autopsy report of the 6 civilians killed (one American, when was the last time an allied nation executed an American citizen?), it was murder.

Where's the accountability? It seems as if most of you guys are saying they did act well within their legal means. And still, after these reports come out, you guys defend Israels actions and justify it by using one of the poorest arguments out there "they broke the blockade so they knew exactly what would happen".

I don't really remember all the specifics about this story, and since this went down I honestly stopped giving much of a fuck about the rest of the world. But I'm trying to look at this without a biased perspective, if the civilians breaching the blockade had weapons or intentions to harm IDF forces, then fuck, they're IDIOTS and I'm really not surprised innocent people were killed, because that's exactly the same kind of shit that happens in America on a day to day basis... you flash a cell phone getting out of your car to argue a speeding ticket and you'll most likely end up in a closed casket compliments of the police. But if they were unarmed and were only trying to get the shit into Gaza and this went down how it did, I don't see how anyone could possibly argue in support of IDF. Breaching a blockade isn't justification for murder unless you're positive via visual contact or incredibly credible intel that somebody is carrying a weapon...

Blazin, you are right man, it isn't our freedoms that they hate us for. It's this shit. Stuff just like this, stuff like that video of that Apache taking out that camera crew... foreign occupying forces that just don't give a fuck in general. They're there for their tour, hopefully command knows what's best for the country, they're just following orders...

This is bullshit and it's why, like I said, I stopped giving a fuck about any of it...
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Let me preface this by saying it IS unfortunate. You are a trip man. You are hypercritical of the U.S. and Israel, but those poor peace activists were just murdered in cold blood and bare NO responsibility whatsoever for what happened. :roll:

Since you don't give a fuck, why do you post such inane drivel? Why not just ignore these threads? Because like anybody else who took a look at this thread and took the time to post, you DO care. It's nothing to be embarrassed about bro. You don't know what happened yet you are quick to point a finger and assign blame. Were you there? How do you know what those guys saw and what they didn't? It was supposedly dark....................I'm sorry, I don't remember if you told me. Were you in the military? For someone who never served you seem to have a lot of insight on how a soldier should conduct himself. This is something you have NO CLUE about yet you are passing judgement and think you have all the answers. I stopped taking you seriously a long time ago my man. Your views are so lopsided.......................I don't even know why I bother to respond to you. All it's likely to get me is a slew of attacks from you and a "you're just ingnorant" statement. Think whatever you want to Pad. I just don't give a fuck anymore. ;-)
 
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