two lamps, two rooms, one ballast!
- Thread starter IAm5toned
- Start date
watercooled@
Active Member
I don't even come close to understanding this.
Is this so you can run two 300 watt lamps off one 600 watt ballast? Or to run two 600 watt lamps off a single 600 watt ballast?
Is this so you can run two 300 watt lamps off one 600 watt ballast? Or to run two 600 watt lamps off a single 600 watt ballast?
you can run 2 600 watt off of a single ballast in the schematic as long as they do not overlap they only overlay of a minute cause bulb would be warming up in one cabinet and shutting down in other.. only good for 2 flowering cabs you wouldnt be able to run one for 18/6 and other 12/12 cause would draw too much on the ballast
IAm5toned
Well-Known Member
exactly... this would be ideal for two flowering rooms on a 12/12 schedule, sharing a single ballast. if you understand relay logic at all, you can play with it to run as many ballasts as you want, using the NC contact on the 6042 altronix relay as an output controlling as many relays as you need ballasts.... you would also do the same thing for the lamp switching relay, just add another DPDT relay to the output circuit (Zone 2 output which is the purple and brown in the schematic, activates the DPDT relay)and wire the lamps as shown.
another reason i chose both the altronix relay and the lighting control panel for this design is that the parameters of both are very simply adjusted, and with a little experimenting you can really do some complex control operations using this simple equipment. its not quite a fully automated plc system like we all drool over, but it comes pretty close at a cheaper cost.
i would do a plc design, but it would be all but useless for the grower, as the software used to configure the damn things are proprietary and also require a good knowledge of computers to setup. and they are also rediculously expensive. i made this for someone that wants the 2-3k control setup but only has 1k to spend...
i am looking for a cheap(preferrably end user configurable) 8-12 channel I/O device to use as a logic gate... but having a hard time finding one. if i do, i can do a design for just about anything a grower could need, from co2, to ppm, the whole shebang.... just be prepared to spend some $ on equipment, my designs are based on function and reliability, so if i specify a part number, its for a reason, not because its something i found in a search engine. i will in most cases try to find a reasonably priced component for my designs, in this case i went with torx and altronix as i know there products pass the test, if i wanted to stick it to you , i could have spec'd the whole design for allen-bradley parts, lol, and it would add a cpl hundred to do the same thing
another reason i chose both the altronix relay and the lighting control panel for this design is that the parameters of both are very simply adjusted, and with a little experimenting you can really do some complex control operations using this simple equipment. its not quite a fully automated plc system like we all drool over, but it comes pretty close at a cheaper cost.
i would do a plc design, but it would be all but useless for the grower, as the software used to configure the damn things are proprietary and also require a good knowledge of computers to setup. and they are also rediculously expensive. i made this for someone that wants the 2-3k control setup but only has 1k to spend...
i am looking for a cheap(preferrably end user configurable) 8-12 channel I/O device to use as a logic gate... but having a hard time finding one. if i do, i can do a design for just about anything a grower could need, from co2, to ppm, the whole shebang.... just be prepared to spend some $ on equipment, my designs are based on function and reliability, so if i specify a part number, its for a reason, not because its something i found in a search engine. i will in most cases try to find a reasonably priced component for my designs, in this case i went with torx and altronix as i know there products pass the test, if i wanted to stick it to you , i could have spec'd the whole design for allen-bradley parts, lol, and it would add a cpl hundred to do the same thing
nice setup. altronix makes great stuff but the relay contacts on the relay you spec is only rated for 277 volts max.since the voltage coming out of a ballast is 600 volts,how long will this last? have you had 1 running for a while?
for an I/O board,have you considered an alarm panel? Ademco or DSC (and others)both make panels that can have several outputs & can be configured to trip from a time scedule or an input.my guess is you will spend about $2-250 for panel,keypad and output relays.both will also log activity & DSC panels can also be tied to a phone line & call you if needed.
for an I/O board,have you considered an alarm panel? Ademco or DSC (and others)both make panels that can have several outputs & can be configured to trip from a time scedule or an input.my guess is you will spend about $2-250 for panel,keypad and output relays.both will also log activity & DSC panels can also be tied to a phone line & call you if needed.
IAm5toned
Well-Known Member
actually, the voltage coming out of the ballast is closer to 95-100vac. the 600v pulse only occurs during lamp start up, less than 500ms duration, since the altronix relay has a built in arc suppressor, it will work fine. please keep in mind the relay in question is an ice cube relay, not a relay module like the ones used in security and simple access
i thought about using a burg or fire panel as a controller, but i realized that unless it was an addressable system, it wouldnt work out right, as most alarm panels dont have enough outpoint points or relay triggers to accomodate all the different functions you would need to have an automated grow. and also, when using an alarm panel to run a relay, you would need to have whats called 'waterfall relay logic gates', which is a pain in the ass to do, pretty much means using the panel to control a pam1 relay that controls a RIB relay that controls either an ice cube relay or a remote starter... because the form c contacts on the alarm panels will burn up over time because of the inrush from activating the relay coils (pause for breath). i know you can use alarm panels to run relays as an auxillary function, but there intended to be used only during alarm conditions, and alarm conditions are rare during the lifespan of the panel. having a grow op would require that all those form c relays on the alarm panel to operate several times a day, everyday, they just simply are not designed to be used that way. and i dont wanna buy a vista 40 and then all the the damn modules to go with it. i have a few vista 15's and 20's lying around the garage, and a lynx panel kit still in the box somewhere too... so i have all the alarm stuff, its just not suited for the job. Using a burg panel is soemthing i tossed around in my head for a long time because i have acess to alot of fire and burg equipment, but it never got off the drawing board because of the continuous use factor
this design there are about 7 points of failure. using a burg panel would add about 10 points of failure to the mix, and i like to abide by the kISS rule.
i thought about using a burg or fire panel as a controller, but i realized that unless it was an addressable system, it wouldnt work out right, as most alarm panels dont have enough outpoint points or relay triggers to accomodate all the different functions you would need to have an automated grow. and also, when using an alarm panel to run a relay, you would need to have whats called 'waterfall relay logic gates', which is a pain in the ass to do, pretty much means using the panel to control a pam1 relay that controls a RIB relay that controls either an ice cube relay or a remote starter... because the form c contacts on the alarm panels will burn up over time because of the inrush from activating the relay coils (pause for breath). i know you can use alarm panels to run relays as an auxillary function, but there intended to be used only during alarm conditions, and alarm conditions are rare during the lifespan of the panel. having a grow op would require that all those form c relays on the alarm panel to operate several times a day, everyday, they just simply are not designed to be used that way. and i dont wanna buy a vista 40 and then all the the damn modules to go with it. i have a few vista 15's and 20's lying around the garage, and a lynx panel kit still in the box somewhere too... so i have all the alarm stuff, its just not suited for the job. Using a burg panel is soemthing i tossed around in my head for a long time because i have acess to alot of fire and burg equipment, but it never got off the drawing board because of the continuous use factor
this design there are about 7 points of failure. using a burg panel would add about 10 points of failure to the mix, and i like to abide by the kISS rule.
IAm5toned
Well-Known Member
lol, yes, i agree. but people seem to want to run two lamps off of one ballast independantly, so i figured i would oblige...
not sure what you mean. you would use the panel's relay to trip 1 additional relay so as to not burn the panels relay but you would have to do that with any I/O board.why trip a relay to trip a relay to trip a relay?
not true,I often program panels to trip a aux relay to turn on lights during entry delay.my house panel trips a light whenever anyone opens the back door or hits the pressure pad on the top stair,armed or not.-been doing this for 8 yrs now & w/ 3 kids,it gets lots of use
a 4204 relay module will work w/ your vista 20 (about $70).it will give you 4 outputs but I think the 20 only allows 2-3 time scedules so that may limit you.
IAm5toned
Well-Known Member
why trip a relay to trip a relay to trip a relay?not sure what you mean. you would use the panel's relay to trip 1 additional relay so as to not burn the panels relay but you would have to do that with any I/O board.why trip a relay to trip a relay to trip a relay?
not true,I often program panels to trip a aux relay to turn on lights during entry delay.my house panel trips a light whenever anyone opens the back door or hits the pressure pad on the top stair,armed or not.-been doing this for 8 yrs now & w/ 3 kids,it gets lots of use
a 4204 relay module will work w/ your vista 20 (about $70).it will give you 4 outputs but I think the 20 only allows 2-3 time scedules so that may limit you.
because alot of hydro and aero and co2 and auto climate control setups require alot of changes of state. its a matter of having enough poles in the positions you need them, especially if your dealing with solenoid valves being controlled by ppm meters. alot of "if" functions, which is tricky to do w/out a plc or an addressable system... ive also considered using x10 switches but the cost, and labor and space, for me, just isnt worth it.
which is why i need a small i/o device. allen bradley makes a bunch of em but there not user configurable w/out a laptop and a software license... id like to have the entire control setup in one cabinet, which is another reason i dont want to use a control panel, they take up alot of cabinet space, and do not mount to a DIN rail system.
if i could find one, then i could build a controller that would easily fit in a 8x8, with all the connection points and relays. neat and clean, for prolly half the cost of one of those greenhouse controllers. and for the record, i am a NICET 3 certified tech, among other things
Ive installed probably over 500 ademco panels, in both res and comm applications. switching some house lights is a simple thing to do, 2-300w resisitive load, is nothing to worry about. when your dealing with a greater than 400w inductive load, the switching gets a little more complicated. im sure you could use an alarm control panel to run an op, but in my own judgement id rather have something designed with industrial reliability in mind.its all a matter of preference....
if you want to go completely automatic check out http://www.circuitspecialists.com/level.itml/icOid/293 or http://www.portwell.com/products/IO.asp they have i/o slots for you to use pci slot in computer there use to be on on OG cant remeber the name of it but you could just use you pc to do the timing and switching. the same one cant remeber how many analog ones but you could have sensors up the ying yang on it too
IAm5toned
Well-Known Member
thanks for the input, but its really not what im looking for...
what im looking for is a end-user configurable minimum 8 channel sourcing I/O plc/compact block.
the controller you showed, is a shodily made dpdt relay. it doesnt even have an onboard 7 day timer, you still have to buy one... it also does not account for hotstarts/cooldown periods.
it will only control one ballast, and two lamps. my design is modular, generic (virtually any relay or device can be controlled, not just a light) and stackable, you could in theory run up to 255 ballasts and 510 lamps from this one panel alone..... (providing you had the power to run all those kw's)
any product that says 'IT REALLY WORKS!!!' (thats a direct quote for the website, caps and all) puts a bad taste in my mouth immediatly. if it really worked... wouldnt everyone already be using it? good products sell themselves, and as a multi manufacturer industry certified lighting consultant... i can tell you right now that controller is a POS....lol
doing some more digging i also noticed the manufacturer only guarantees this product for 5 years limited.
i state my above design will last at least 20 years, if not longer. you might have to replace the ice cube relay because the coil could (but not very likely) get weak after a cpl of decades.
the components are more expensive in my design, but it was a deliberate choice.
i will never sacrifice reliability, function, or expandability just to save a few bux that will cost you 10 times what you saved in repairs, expansions or replacements later on.
this design was also intended for the serious grower, that has alot riding on or invested in his/her crop, and can not or is unwilling to take risks with cheap equipment.
what im looking for is a end-user configurable minimum 8 channel sourcing I/O plc/compact block.
the controller you showed, is a shodily made dpdt relay. it doesnt even have an onboard 7 day timer, you still have to buy one... it also does not account for hotstarts/cooldown periods.
it will only control one ballast, and two lamps. my design is modular, generic (virtually any relay or device can be controlled, not just a light) and stackable, you could in theory run up to 255 ballasts and 510 lamps from this one panel alone..... (providing you had the power to run all those kw's)
any product that says 'IT REALLY WORKS!!!' (thats a direct quote for the website, caps and all) puts a bad taste in my mouth immediatly. if it really worked... wouldnt everyone already be using it? good products sell themselves, and as a multi manufacturer industry certified lighting consultant... i can tell you right now that controller is a POS....lol
doing some more digging i also noticed the manufacturer only guarantees this product for 5 years limited.
i state my above design will last at least 20 years, if not longer. you might have to replace the ice cube relay because the coil could (but not very likely) get weak after a cpl of decades.
the components are more expensive in my design, but it was a deliberate choice.
i will never sacrifice reliability, function, or expandability just to save a few bux that will cost you 10 times what you saved in repairs, expansions or replacements later on.
this design was also intended for the serious grower, that has alot riding on or invested in his/her crop, and can not or is unwilling to take risks with cheap equipment.