TRUMP CONVICTED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Fucker is dirty. He needs to go to jail, at least for some time. It looks to me he's still dancing around cooperation, trying to do the least for the most benefit.
He has a really good lawyer they say, a former DOJ prosecutor and if anybody can cut a deal for Mark it is him, so his peers say. He is getting squeezed from both sides, state and federal, and needs to negotiate with both. If he has something to say about those Jack wants, they he will put in a good word with Willis, but he will have to squeal his head off there too. I'm pretty sure Jack would like to get Gym Jordan and others and if Mark could deliver...
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
My fat ass has been planted there since well before indictments even started rolling out - and it still hasn't moved. Not sure I've ever wanted to be proven wrong quite this badly before. This team is even more dreary than my beloved Chicago Bears.
This is justice, not a game show, the wheels grind slow, but they often grind fine and for this bunch the result will be very fine.
 

Fangthane

Well-Known Member
The time frame doesn't really have anything to do with it, for me at least. I just have a general feeling that accountability for wrongdoing isn't typically an actual thing that our public servants and officials need to concern themselves about to any real degree. And that's just barriers in place to shield the nameless, low-level people like cops and municipal officials. As it proceeds up the food chain, my perception is that there's often even less accountability. Factor in this insane hero-worship benefiting trump and those surrounding him, I just don't trust that even unambiguous, earth-shattering evidence would be enough to penetrate very deeply into the cult mentality. I don't know how it's going to happen, but somehow, the right people are going to leave their slime trails in just the right place for Donnie Dipshit to slide on by any danger. I wanna be wrong; I just don't trust humanity very much - and I just trust a significant portion of US society even less.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
The time frame doesn't really have anything to do with it, for me at least. I just have a general feeling that accountability for wrongdoing isn't typically an actual thing that our public servants and officials need to concern themselves about to any real degree. And that's just barriers in place to shield the nameless, low-level people like cops and municipal officials. As it proceeds up the food chain, my perception is that there's often even less accountability. Factor in this insane hero-worship benefiting trump and those surrounding him, I just don't trust that even unambiguous, earth-shattering evidence would be enough to penetrate very deeply into the cult mentality. I don't know how it's going to happen, but somehow, the right people are going to leave their slime trails in just the right place for Donnie Dipshit to slide on by any danger. I wanna be wrong; I just don't trust humanity very much - and I just trust a significant portion of US society even less.
First, he is disqualified to run in the 2024 election or will be found so, if not ya might as well burn the US constitution. Second, he has been indicted in 3 jurisdictions, two in DC, on over 90 criminal counts with overwhelming evidence and witnesses in all cases. The clock is ticking, and trial dates being set, Trump is in the custody of the court(s) and under the thumb of four different judges, two federal and two state. He is one fuckup away from being jailed pretrial in Georgia or DC. A verdict in the J6 DC trial is expected before June of 24 at the latest and his trial begins the day before super Tuesday.

Give it a spell longer, things are coming to a boil now with legal news by the day as his minions and cronies' squirm.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
The time frame doesn't really have anything to do with it, for me at least. I just have a general feeling that accountability for wrongdoing isn't typically an actual thing that our public servants and officials need to concern themselves about to any real degree. And that's just barriers in place to shield the nameless, low-level people like cops and municipal officials. As it proceeds up the food chain, my perception is that there's often even less accountability. Factor in this insane hero-worship benefiting trump and those surrounding him, I just don't trust that even unambiguous, earth-shattering evidence would be enough to penetrate very deeply into the cult mentality. I don't know how it's going to happen, but somehow, the right people are going to leave their slime trails in just the right place for Donnie Dipshit to slide on by any danger. I wanna be wrong; I just don't trust humanity very much - and I just trust a significant portion of US society even less.
Regarding P01135809, I think he crossed a karma threshold that an unknown number of captains of industry and finance successfully avoided. In his instance, I think we have a real shot at the justice system being extended to its full reach, and taking a big’un all the way down. My figurative money is on Smith, not agent orange.

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Fangthane

Well-Known Member
I'm on your side and actively want to be wrong. I just think you're operating under the assumption that words have the same meaning no matter who uses them; and that the Constitution really means all that much to people who actively support a guy that openly wanted to suspend it to suit his own purposes. In a rational, logical world, it'd seem obvious that he's fucked. The fact that the twatwaffle even got elected in the first place, though, suggests that logic and rationality don't matter to a LOT of our society. I look forward to your I-told-you-so when he's convicted and sentenced, I just can't convince myself it's ever gonna come.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
I'm on your side and actively want to be wrong. I just think you're operating under the assumption that words have the same meaning no matter who uses them; and that the Constitution really means all that much to people who actively support a guy that openly wanted to suspend it to suit his own purposes. In a rational, logical world, it'd seem obvious that he's fucked. The fact that the twatwaffle even got elected in the first place, though, suggests that logic and rationality don't matter to a LOT of our society. I look forward to your I-told-you-so when he's convicted and sentenced, I just can't convince myself it's ever gonna come.
This is a pitched battle between fascists and the rest of us. Trouble is, the fascists are not only his fans. Convicting that man, though, will aid the side he is not on. Bigly.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
I'm on your side and actively want to be wrong. I just think you're operating under the assumption that words have the same meaning no matter who uses them; and that the Constitution really means all that much to people who actively support a guy that openly wanted to suspend it to suit his own purposes. In a rational, logical world, it'd seem obvious that he's fucked. The fact that the twatwaffle even got elected in the first place, though, suggests that logic and rationality don't matter to a LOT of our society. I look forward to your I-told-you-so when he's convicted and sentenced, I just can't convince myself it's ever gonna come.
From what you are saying, I'm wondering if you can change your point of view if things occur that challenge them. If Trump is convicted and sentenced to some form of state-controlled detention would you still hold the view the: " general feeling that accountability for wrongdoing isn't typically an actual thing that our public servants and officials need to concern themselves about to any real degree."

The ability to reflect when new information becomes available and change a point of view based on it is the difference between cynicism and skepticism.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member

'Client from hell’: Trump’s courtroom calendar fills up ahead of election

146,971 views Aug 28, 2023 #Trump #Indictment #DeadlineWhiteHouse
Former Assistant U.S. Attorney Glenn Kirschner, former Acting Assistant Attorney General for National Security at DOJ Mary McCord, Editor-at-large for The Bulwark, Charlie Sykes and Democratic strategist Basil Smikle join Ali Velshi – in for Nicolle Wallace – to discuss the latest developments surrounding Trump’s indictments, including a new date in the federal election case.
 

Fangthane

Well-Known Member
From what you're saying, you're apparently reading a whole lot of imaginary subtext within my posts. The lack of accountability I perceive is pretty often reinforced, at least at the lower levels I'm likely to pay attention to. But that doesn't mean I'm issuing it as a blanket statement; that because I rarely see accountability it simply does not or cannot exist.

There are a whole lot of human elements between Trump and a cell. Some of them put in place by him; some among the "peers" that make up the juries who will judge him. I just don't trust Q and the "alternative facts" crowd to acknowledge anything that would seem damning for Trump.

If he's convicted, I'll be relieved, for sure, but it wouldn't mean a seismic shift in my thoughts about governmental accountability. I think it'll more likely mean that he and his cohorts danced far enough out of line that enough of the right people could no longer publicly pretend it's all just a witch hunt. I highly doubt it'll signal a new era for gov oversight, where the corrupt start dropping like flies, but I'll certainly believe it if I see it.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member

Trump’s prison fears rise as indicted chief of staff takes the stand in RICO case

70,816 views Aug 28, 2023 #msnbc #trump #markmeadows
Former Chief of staff for President Trump, Mark Meadows took the stand in his own RICO case today. Meadows testified that all efforts to overturn the 2020 election were part of his official duties. Meadows is trying to move his case to federal court.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
From what you're saying, you're apparently reading a whole lot of imaginary subtext within my posts. The lack of accountability I perceive is pretty often reinforced, at least at the lower levels I'm likely to pay attention to. But that doesn't mean I'm issuing it as a blanket statement; that because I rarely see accountability it simply does not or cannot exist.

There are a whole lot of human elements between Trump and a cell. Some of them put in place by him; some among the "peers" that make up the juries who will judge him. I just don't trust Q and the "alternative facts" crowd to acknowledge anything that would seem damning for Trump.

If he's convicted, I'll be relieved, for sure, but it wouldn't mean a seismic shift in my thoughts about governmental accountability. I think it'll more likely mean that he and his cohorts danced far enough out of line that enough of the right people could no longer publicly pretend it's all just a witch hunt. I highly doubt it'll signal a new era for gov oversight, where the corrupt start dropping like flies, but I'll certainly believe it if I see it.
I can't answer for your unvoiced examples of lack of accountability. Life is not fair, I'll give you that. Simply looking at the effort and resources put into investigating and bringing Trump to trial, the government is behaving as if it is not just going through the motions. Would Garland have appointed Jack Smith to run an investigation in an office with 16 experienced prosecutors and a blank check if the effort was all for show? I begin with that as a question and not an answer. Jack Smith doesn't seem to me to be the kind of person who would accept that appointment. They are not behaving as if this is a sham effort. There is a fair amount of evidence that they have gathered and their indictment of Trump seems pretty much air tight. So, no. It does not look like Trump will be given a pass. Not if one can look at what's happened objectively.

The system is skewed toward protecting people in power from consequences of misdeeds. Witness how Trump has been given special treatment. But I don't see how one can look at the facts, both in the cases brought against Trump and his cronies and the facts shown in the efforts brought to bear by DOJ officials and say that Trump is not facing a real trial with real consequences.

Earlier on, I considered the possibility that Trump would somehow be given a pass for his crimes committed on and before Jan 6. But the evidence and behavior of the justice system is telling otherwise. So I discarded that hypothesis for a better one.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Glenn seems happier these days...


Judge Chutkan sets speedy trial - March 2024 - in Trump's trial for trying to overturn 2020 election

44,717 views Aug 28, 2023 #TeamJustice
I was in the courtroom for the status hearing in Donald Trump's federal case in DC for attempting to overturn the 2020 presidential election. Donald Trump's lead attorney, John Lauro, started out the hearing loud and only go louder. Indeed, Judge Chutkan twice told Lauro to "take the temperature down."

This video reviews the ins and outs of the court hearing and discusses why Judge Chutkan may have settled on a March 2024 trial date for Trump's DC case.
 

Fangthane

Well-Known Member
The system is skewed toward protecting people in power from consequences of misdeeds. Witness how Trump has been given special treatment. But I don't see how one can look at the facts, both in the cases brought against Trump and his cronies and the facts shown in the efforts brought to bear by DOJ officials and say that Trump is not facing a real trial with real consequences.
I never said I thought it was for show. Presumably, the DOJ isn't likely to jump into such an undertaking without believing they have a winning case, so I'm not even suggesting that those who are publicly going after him have any intention of giving him a pass. The whole mania that's surrounded the orange idiot since 2015 just seems to have elevated to an effectively religious level for a disturbing number of people. I think that if facts and rational arguments worked on the religious, there probably wouldn't be much religion anymore.

He still has staunch supporters within the 'system' who'd likely be tempted to do whatever they could to tip the scale in his favor if they could do so without it costing their ass; hell, Judge Cannon comes to mind as such a possibility. I'm not sure about the exact mechanism of invoking the 14th Amendment to block him from office, but so much of what the Constitution means seems to vary depending on exactly who happens to be officially interpreting it at the time. Not sure if SCOTUS is involved, but if they are, do you feel good about the chances of it happening? What's the likelihood that there are jurors selected that absolutely wouldn't vote to convict him under literally ANY circumstances? I gotta imagine reasonably clever people can say the right things to make it through voir dire without exposing their biases.

No, I'm not calling the the prosecution a hoax at all. I just see waaaayyyyyy too much chance for people who have zero interest in actual justice to toss their sabot into the gears. In this instance, it's not the machine I'm critical of - it's the masses of deplorables that want to see it wrecked at all costs that have me skeptical of the outcome.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member

Christie explains why Trump’s trial is ‘disastrous’ for GOP

356,312 views Aug 28, 2023 #CNN #News
2024 Republican presidential candidate and former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie reacts to the latest developments in the criminal cases against former President Donald Trump.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
I never said I thought it was for show. Presumably, the DOJ isn't likely to jump into such an undertaking without believing they have a winning case, so I'm not even suggesting that those who are publicly going after him have any intention of giving him a pass. The whole mania that's surrounded the orange idiot since 2015 just seems to have elevated to an effectively religious level for a disturbing number of people. I think that if facts and rational arguments worked on the religious, there probably wouldn't be much religion anymore.

He still has staunch supporters within the 'system' who'd likely be tempted to do whatever they could to tip the scale in his favor if they could do so without it costing their ass; hell, Judge Cannon comes to mind as such a possibility. I'm not sure about the exact mechanism of invoking the 14th Amendment to block him from office, but so much of what the Constitution means seems to vary depending on exactly who happens to be officially interpreting it at the time. Not sure if SCOTUS is involved, but if they are, do you feel good about the chances of it happening? What's the likelihood that there are jurors selected that absolutely wouldn't vote to convict him under literally ANY circumstances? I gotta imagine reasonably clever people can say the right things to make it through voir dire without exposing their biases.

No, I'm not calling the the prosecution a hoax at all. I just see waaaayyyyyy too much chance for people who have zero interest in actual justice to toss their sabot into the gears. In this instance, it's not the machine I'm critical of - it's the masses of deplorables that want to see it wrecked at all costs that have me skeptical of the outcome.
That's all plausible. Thanks for sticking with me an explaining your reasoning. I misunderstood earlier.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member

'It Must Be Killing Trump:' How Black women are holding Trump accountable

139,557 views Aug 28, 2023 #Trump #LetitiaJames #FaniWillis
There is an irony to the fact that at the center of Trump's many legal troubles right now are three strong black women. Mehdi Hasan says, "We should thank black women for doing what a bunch of white guys have failed to do for years: hold Donald Trump, hold a former President accountable... and the fact that they're the ones doing it must be killing Trump."
 
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