True HP Aero For 2011

Those look like black cloudtops to me. The GPH is actually pretty low, and you would be able to run quite a few of them with a single pump.

Mike Young said:

Those look like black cloudtops to me. The GPH is actually pretty low, and you would be able to run quite a few of them with a single pump.

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Actually you are right; for some reason I focused on the wider angle(hi-flo), but the micron size isn't perfect.
I have an old chest freezer I am looking to convert so I'm thinking I would need at least 6 nozzles.

They look a little different than the black cloudtops (however I may be confusing them with something else). Do the cloudtops come with the screen?

outlander1 said:

Actually you are right; for some reason I focused on the wider angle(hi-flo), but the micron size isn't perfect.
I have an old chest freezer I am looking to convert so I'm thinking I would need at least 6 nozzles.

They look a little different than the black cloudtops (however I may be confusing them with something else). Do the cloudtops come with the screen?

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Without comparing the specs, I have a pair of black cloudtops nozzles that look identical, the only difference being that the screen is recessed in them like a little bowl whereas this nozzle you showed has a screen that protrudes back towards the mist line. I'll bet they are similar or even the same otherwise.

Trichy Bastard said:

Without comparing the specs, I have a pair of black cloudtops nozzles that look identical, the only difference being that the screen is recessed in them like a little bowl whereas this nozzle you showed has a screen that protrudes back towards the mist line. I'll bet they are similar or even the same otherwise.

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Cheers for that, I'll do a search in the several threads to see what the consensus was on the cloudtops.

///I've got to stop smoking when reading all of this. On second thought; nomnomnom pizzahut

outlander1 said:

Cheers for that, I'll do a search in the several threads to see what the consensus was on the cloudtops.

///I've got to stop smoking when reading all of this. On second thought; nomnomnom pizzahut

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It seems the cloudtops will support life, but the biocontrols appear to have better coverage and throw. This has a few benefits, one becoming more obvious lately to me that it coaxes the roots to fill the chamber more evenly. Of course there is alot more to getting the proper environment, so I hope you'll enjoy the reading and research as much as I have

First let me say thank you to John Guest, Tree Farmer, Cavadge, Hammer21, G-Love, PetFlora, and Atomix for offering such a wealth of information and of course TB for organizing and presenting it so well. I have been reading the first 35 pages of this thread with all my spare time this passed week... researching parts, reading other forums, and spending many restless nights thinking about the ultimate grow chamber. I plan to keep reading where I left off (it's like a novel a can't put down! and here I am skipping to the end...), but I just had to post some questions that I hope are not overly redundant.


1) What do you think about using two 15 gallon rubber tubs (amazon) for a stout, 30 gallon root chamber with a maximum diameter of 26" and a combined height of 19". I should mention that the goal is 1 lb. trees each in their own chamber. The nozzles would be positioned roughly 10-11 inches from the base of the chamber, and would aim away from the root mass. I do not know anything about mist flow dynamics in a semi-cylindrical chamber but I imagine it would offer greater uniform dispersion of the mist when two bio-control nozzles (1.18 ml/sec) are activated for 0.3-0.5 seconds. Obviously the best way is to test this chamber and see how the mist actually travels, but I am still very much in the planning phase. If anybody has any input on the concept I would appreciate it. Oh, and how about rubber as the chamber? I know its a good insulator and will likely be pretty heavy (not the worst thing) but I haven't seen it used for aeroponic chambers.


2) I am really interested in the manual hydrostatic pump idea mentioned from in John Guest's thread some time back, but I have heard no discussion about it elsewhere. I like the idea of leaving only a 12v DC timer and 12v DC solenoids on a 12v DC deep cycle battery with trickle charger. If I only have to manually pump a 10.3 gallon accumulator once/twice a day, then I'm all for it. I initially thought they were prohibitively expensive ($300+), but what do you think about this $100 one or this $200 one... The are rated from 860-1000 psi, though I would only go as high as maybe 135 psi based on the accumulator.


3) I've been thinking about root Scrogging a lot, as it would benefit my chamber to encourage as much lateral root development as possible, but any additional material will obviously collect/pool water and take up space. Would it be especially detrimental to the plants health if say the taproot was cut/split to encourage bushier roots?


Thanks again and try to keep the spoilers to a minimum! (I'm at the part where you still haven't received your JG fittings....it's a long part)

Hi Seed,
Not all hydrostatic test pumps are the same, the Rothenberger RP-50 has an output of 45ml per stroke at any pressure upto 60-bar, cheaper types can be as low as 12ml which means you`ll need almost 4x as many strokes to shift the same volume. The build quality of the Rothenberger is extremely good and it`ll probably last forever. For most people, a good quality high pressure electric pump is cheaper and more convenient than a manual test pump. If you only plan to use a 10-bar accumulator then it`s probably not worth it.
John Guest came up with the idea to service several 6.6gal, 16-bar (232psi) accumulators and was lucky the pump was on special at half price
A word of warning, if you go for an RP-50 make sure you replace the (battleship grey) graphite grease in the pump cylinder with something cleaner and water resistant as it tends to migrate.

Thanks Atomix, I guess to take advantage of the manual pumps it would be better to have a system capable of storing high pressures to be released over a long period of time. If my 8 biocontrol nozzles (2 in each of the 4 chambers) are each releasing 0.08 oz./sec (2.366 mL/sec.... just realized this is double what I originally wrote), and each chamber requires ~1 mL of solution to form an effective mist, then each nozzle should activate for only 0.2-0.3 sec to fill the chamber with, say, 59.8 seconds off (60 second cycles, for simplicity sake; 0.004L/min= 5.76L/day for all 4 chambers). Assuming the accumulator is pressurized to 10bar (145 psi = ?L of solution) and the pressure regulator is creating a differential of 45 psi, how many times a day would I have to manually pump? Sounds like some textbook problem...

I guess it depends on how much solution a 10.3 gallon 150 psi accumulator can hold at a safe operating pressure and if that 2.366 mL/sec value is at my desired nozzle pressure (ie 100 psi).

A 10.3 gal accumulator running 100psi -145psi = 2.9us gal or a tad under 11 litres. At a leisurely pace of 1 stroke every 2 seconds, the test pump would take about 8 minutes to fill the accumulator.

At $100, the aquatec is probably looking pretty nice right about now. It fills my 19 gallon/5 or so gallon drawdown in a little over 35 minutes without me ever breaking a sweat.

Atomizer said:

A 10.3 gal accumulator running 100psi -145psi = 2.9us gal or a tad under 11 litres. At a leisurely pace of 1 stroke every 2 seconds, the test pump would take about 8 minutes to fill the accumulator.

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Hmmm quite the workout I see, thanks for the math!

Mike Young said:

At $100, the aquatec is probably looking pretty nice right about now. It fills my 19 gallon/5 or so gallon drawdown in a little over 35 minutes without me ever breaking a sweat.

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Ya at those prices it's a pretty compelling argument to go with the electric. Now I just need to get me a little bit o' propane propaaaaaane.... sorry I've been waiting to say that since I first saw your avatar some several thousand posts back.

Any comments on the chamber concept, one 15 gallon rubber tub upside down on another 15 gallon rubber tub? I can see drilling holes being difficult, but for single plant chambers there should be a lot of room for the mist to disperse, and they are available for $20 each or $40 a pod. A simple 3/8" plastic screen could be wedged several inches above the bottom of the chamber, but if the conditions are not overly saturated and some minor root pruning is performed, there is plenty of room for some pom-poms to grow. Ideally I would want an even wider/shorter chamber of roughly the same volume as height is limited (grow space of 4'x4'x7' per pod).

My attempt at trying to convince the public I'm Canadian, lol. I personally ditched my two 40 gallon round chambers (26" diameter) for a single chamber (coffin style) as roots choked off not only the misters, but the entire bottom of the root mass. While the nozzles are free & clear in my current setup, I still have the problem of root swell choking off the bottom half of the roots. The mist from my choice of nozzle (2 runs in, and I'm finally ready to throw in the towel) is the right size (imo) but doesn't carry the velocity to penetrate deep into the roots, causing them to fluff to the point of not being constructive anymore. Your pairing of bio nozzles & 30 gallon chamber should work just fine. You shouldn't get too attached to your nozzle placement, lol. If you can come up with a way to make your nozzles easily adjustable, you're gonna save yourself some time. Or you get it right the first time, and I would like to pre-congratulate you on that.

Edit: With your chamber setup, have you figured out how you will access the roots for viewing/adjusting?

I was thinking of cutting the bottom of of one tub, replacing it with some ABS plastic, and cutting a 3-4" hole in the plastic for the net cup. The root mass/pom-poms may be too wide for those openings though.... I guess I could also check root development by lifting the first tub since I see little reason to glue/drill the two tubs together, but at 12 pounds it would be quite the workout. I certainly don't want to develop a robust root system only to isolate it within the chamber.

Hi Seed55, thanks for the comments and your interest. Sorry I was slow to welcome you but I've been going through some personal stuff lately. I do not have any opinions on your chamber other than my general thoughts are that a single large chamber with multiple plants may be better than a single pod per plant unless you want to be like tree farmer and grow some large trees. Besides the obvious of having more shared airspace for the mist to disperse, there are a couple other advantages especially by using multiple misters and solenoids to one chamber. If any were to clog, or the solenoid fail for whatever reason, you'll have some others running to limp the system along until you discover the issue and address it. In the end as long as you satisfy the important requirements mentioned over and over again around here, you can really get creative and I am sure there are all sorts of chamber ideas that will work. The good thing is once your "HP control center" is created, making a new chamber is fairly simple and all you'll have to do is connect it via JG line and solenoid wires. Look forward to watching your progress, and yes- that JG waiting period was forever. I also really enjoyed reading the threads that inspired me and it was exactly like a good book I could not put down.

Thank you for your response TB! It's really amazing how dedicated you and the other senior members are when it comes to encouraging positive dialogue on HPA and offering such specific, transparent knowledge to the masses.

I am limited to six mature plants at a time so I was looking for an effective design to maximize the potential of each plant, but I agree a larger chamber with multiple plants would more effectively provide the type of environment conducive to those "Santa's beard" roots we all want. Still, with a lot of training and an adequate root space, I am optimistic about single plant aeroponic grows. Also I will have clones/immature plants running during the flowering stage such that the oldest ones will have vegetated for 2-3 months before entering flowering (there are limitations on the plant canopy size of the immature plants, but they don't say anything about the roots!).

I am still a ways off from my grow, but it's not a terrible thing... more time to read up on other people's mistakes to avoid hehe

Seed55 said:

Thank you for your response TB! It's really amazing how dedicated you and the other senior members are when it comes to encouraging positive dialogue on HPA and offering such specific, transparent knowledge to the masses.

I am limited to six mature plants at a time so I was looking for an effective design to maximize the potential of each plant, but I agree a larger chamber with multiple plants would more effectively provide the type of environment conducive to those "Santa's beard" roots we all want. Still, with a lot of training and an adequate root space, I am optimistic about single plant aeroponic grows. Also I will have clones/immature plants running during the flowering stage such that the oldest ones will have vegetated for 2-3 months before entering flowering (there are limitations on the plant canopy size of the immature plants, but they don't say anything about the roots!).

I am still a ways off from my grow, but it's not a terrible thing... more time to read up on other people's mistakes to avoid hehe

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Well, this is still a relatively new and unpaved way to grow, so the more of us there are, the more we all learn from eachother- whether a new idea that works, or one not to attempt again in the future. I am certain there is still alot of room for improvement and gains in knowledge on the subject. It's alot more exciting to me than other ways of growing that are pretty much already all figured out in comparison. Glad to have you joining in the adventure...

I am currently working out the details for a new chamber design that will use 2 AA nozzles and hopefully stay under 70f degrees in the outside environment I have here. It will probably be similar to the Atomix chamber but with 4" of insulation and perhaps some sort of active cooling if I find it's necessary. My biggest problem running outdoors has been heat, and my mistake was underestimating what a problem that would be if that's any help to anyone else...

Root scrogging/training/pruning seems to be an important factor to consider, given the limitations in chamber size/shape. One idea I was entertaining in my stoney-bologna state of mind was to let gravity do the shaping. That is, hang the plants upside down and place the light near the ground. A pretty ridiculous/impractical idea I know, but if I recall from my plant physiology class, root growth is a function of gravity and statoliths in the root cells. The plant, if vegged long enough, may even be able to hold itself up by scrogging the canopy. The clearest benefit of this orientation is that mist from nozzles can be directly up, and with gravity should collect on the root mass within the 50 micron range. I'm sure there are a million other logistical issues so feel free to doo-doo all over that idea

Also, not sure if these were mentioned (currently at p. 84), but I found some really high volume chambers at a low price from Home Depot. 54 gallons @ $22 is as good as I've seen without scouring local craigslist ads or garage sales.

Seed55 said:

Also, not sure if these were mentioned (currently at p. 84), but I found some really high volume chambers at a low price from Home Depot. 54 gallons @ $22 is as good as I've seen without scouring local craigslist ads or garage sales.

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This look big enough hehe..

I had issues with scrogging my HP roots. The roots spread out then dropped which would allow the mist to drop below the screen without over misting, (just happened) . And the test pump is a pain, I have everything hooked up 12v, and my pump, pressure switch 110. Have a large enough accumulator to hold enough nuts for 5 days, and can flip a valve and hook up the test pump. Everything's up and running smooth now, thanks trich, and atomizer, this kills the old tag setup