True HP Aero For 2011

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
I had < 6" between fog chamber and pod with a fan blowing 24/7 down into the far corner pushing fog directly into the pod. No go bro.

Right, but the question is WHY it didn't work. Also, I am using a triple head fogger with ceramic discs, and blowing it all into a very small chamber of about 3 gallons. Perhaps the fog being more concentrated may help, or not- but I aim to find out. Somer people do claim to have some kind of success with fog, at least until a certain point. Lettuces and such seem to do fine, but certaian plants have higher demands. I did already grow a cherry tomato plant in pure fog, but the heat was over 90 degrees, and that must have had some part to do with why the plant grew slowly. The roots finally sat in condensate, and the experiment was tainted because it was NFT/fog hybrid at that point.
 

travish413

Well-Known Member
I don't know but he's been gone for a while? I don't know how old he was hope nothing tragic happened!!
I know... I've been a lil worried too bc I have pm'd him a cpl times with no response and thats not like him... The last time I heard from him was early december...
 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
I know... I've been a lil worried too bc I have pm'd him a cpl times with no response and thats not like him... The last time I heard from him was early december...
December, are you sure? The last time he posted anywhere was in October, and that was across all the sites I knew him on. If he slowly backed out, then it would be different, but as far as I know, he just stopped posting everywhere immediately.
 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Over the weekend, I bought the stuff I needed to go through with creating cooling jackets in the outer walls of my chamber. The chamber gets way too hot here. Unfortunately, after imagining the logistics of it a little better, I doubt my plan would work of running some cooling lines through the wall pockets filled with water. The heat and sunlight would just overcome any attempt, plus is would be a great waste of electricity-and it's 3x here the price on average of anywhere in California, we have the highest electrical rate in the country here. I even considered trying to use micro sprinklers to spray cold mist into the walls, and recirculate it through my chiller- same issues though. My original idea was to used closed cell spray foam (great stuff) in the walls. I chose not to after reading it expanded with such force, it would likely distort the chamber walls alot, plus it outgassed alot of toxic fumes. Now I am in a rut because it's probably the best way to insulate the pod, but will be much harder with everything put together now. In the end, there will be 2" thickness of foam in most places, but due to the structural geometry they incorporated into the molds, some places will be less thick. I read tree farmer uses 3" of insulation, so I wonder if even going through all the trouble will give me enough insulation anyway. It will probably spill out through the drilled holes I make to insert the spray tube in as it expands, and make my inner chamber a bit of an eye sore, but that's not a huge deal. The lid will be even harder to insulate because the holes are already in it for the netpots. I suppose I could tape over them to try to hold it together, but it will likely get messy. If I could do it all over again, I would have insulated first, then modified the chamber, but I just didn't know. Luckily, the chamber itself is fairly easy to build, and I could just start over again with a new concept, and then just hook it up to the control center, but for now, I don't have any more money I can put into this for a while, so I have to figure out a way to make what I already have work. Any ideas anyone else might have would be welcome.

On another note, the other night I noticed all the lights in my house were giving off big beams in the darnkess, as if there were smoke in the air. I realized the fog cloner was fogging up my entire house! lol... For now, I was only running pure water in it, just to test it out. But now I'm sort of worried if I start putting nutes in how healthy that would be to breathe. I can put it outdoors but will have more heat issues, so that's just another thing I have to think about.
 

DIYer

Well-Known Member
I cant see it in my minds eye too clearly, but i gather your root chamber is outside and heat is an issue. you said direct sunlight,.. if theres any hitting the root chamber that's the first thing id work on ridding. just thinking how to keep any root chamber cool outside my first thought would be an insulated chamber, then a decent pocket of air tween it and any direct sunlight. Can you move the ladies to another chamber down and dirty temporarily, so you can work on fixing there main home? I've used spray foam before,.. seems like it would insulate good. Maybe if the ladies weren't there for a few hours you could use it, and I've had it over expand too, add it slowly and let it layer up maybe, taping over the injection holes to keep it in perhaps?


ideas from a blind man...
 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
I cant see it in my minds eye too clearly, but i gather your root chamber is outside and heat is an issue. you said direct sunlight,.. if theres any hitting the root chamber that's the first thing id work on ridding. just thinking how to keep any root chamber cool outside my first thought would be an insulated chamber, then a decent pocket of air tween it and any direct sunlight. Can you move the ladies to another chamber down and dirty temporarily, so you can work on fixing there main home? I've used spray foam before,.. seems like it would insulate good. Maybe if the ladies weren't there for a few hours you could use it, and I've had it over expand too, add it slowly and let it layer up maybe, taping over the injection holes to keep it in perhaps?


ideas from a blind man...
Yeah- I just chopped last night, and the chamber is empty and dry today so I bought some foam and will give it a shot. Once the canopy grows out, it will shade the chamber, but it's getting to that point that I need to help...
Funny story- last night the chamber was empty and right near my bbq which ran out of gas. I set a tabletop charcoal grill filled with mesquite coals in it to make dinner.- With the root chamber just to the side of it. By murphy's law, when I was pouring out the hot coals from the charcoal starter device, a few fell down on my root chamber lid, and actually made it into the holes for the plants. Burned holes right through my silkscreen in the bottom of the chamber... Dammit! Anyway, blick ships 2nd day air for another 8 bucks, so new screen on the way. I'm trying the 135 tpi instead of the 150tpi this time to see if it might drain a little better.
 

Mike Young

Well-Known Member
This is kind of a crazy idea. Probably alot of work, but I think it could work. Running cold water through corrugated plastic panels, that you would have to encase your box in. If you took some kind of soft tubing & cut a slit right down the middle of it, and could fit it to the top & bottom of the panels & hopefully through either hard work or ingenuity get a perfect seal, you could run chilled water through the panels. It would be one helluva job, but I think I could make it work if I had to. I don't know how it would work for the top, but the 4 sides for sure. I dunno, just an idea.
 

dickkhead

Active Member
yea thats what id do and run the water through a chiller.

Im serisoly about ready to ditch this hp aero there looking sadder by the day i lowered my ppm down to 700 down from 1000 hopefully that helps the room is around 80. the leaves on 1 plant are all curling downward and are browning and yellowing any ideas?
i wish tree farmer would post how he gets his massive trees to look so healthy! wtf am I doing wrong?!?! they should be growing twice the rate as soil. yet in my other tent i have a 10 gallon airpot with bioterra plus and biocanna nutes and the thing is 3 times the size of the aeros and is a month younger. about ready to switch my whole set up to that unless somone can provide a miracle!!!!
 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
This is kind of a crazy idea. Probably alot of work, but I think it could work. Running cold water through corrugated plastic panels, that you would have to encase your box in. If you took some kind of soft tubing & cut a slit right down the middle of it, and could fit it to the top & bottom of the panels & hopefully through either hard work or ingenuity get a perfect seal, you could run chilled water through the panels. It would be one helluva job, but I think I could make it work if I had to. I don't know how it would work for the top, but the 4 sides for sure. I dunno, just an idea.
Yeah, that's what I was gonna do, with the walls themselves since they are double walled construction- until I realized in the sun with the slightly dark plastic, it would be a losing battle, or at least cost a ton of electricity. I thought about sheeting the inside with foam sheets, but don't want to give up chamber volume and air space. Thought about putting the sheets on the outside, but it would be ugly and really stand out with those white walls that would eventually desintegrate in the sun anyway. I even considered "misting" inside the walls from the top and recollecting it in the bottom. No worries anymore. I took the plunge and started filling 'er up with great stuff. Actually, I think this is gonna work perfectly. I really worried about overexpansion, so I played around with it a little outside the box first. I figured about how much I needed by timing the sprays (cause I couldn't see in the chamber where I was spraying it). I also read that the stuff doesn't work so well in enclosed spaces, because it took moisture from the air to cure, so after drilling holes, I used a spray bottle and pumped in some mist right before spraying- hope it works. This stuff is generally sticky and messy as hell, but the can reads "adheres to almost anything except for a few type of plastic". Well I guess I got lucky, cause anywhere it poured out, I just easily pulled off with my fingers after a few minutes of drying. It feels like the walls are firming up, so I believe it is curing. I am doing it in a couple layers so it has the best chance to cure. So far I've done the bottom half of the walls, and all is well. No distortions, and I believe it has fully filled any gaps and crevices. I know this stuff has a tendency to continue expanding for hours, so I hope I haven't spoke too soon. I googled for hours on what was better, the original formula, or the "big gap filler", I also tried to find which had a better insulating r-value, but none came up. Since the big gap filler claims to be for filling in spaces larger than 1/2", and the regular says up to 1/2"- I decided to go with the big gap filler which claims to expand 3x more than the regular formulation. I was a bit leery about overexpansion, but I do believe I made the best choice. Since it expands more, theroetically it should be less dense and more insulating, but it's only a guess. This stuff is so insulating, I can't imagine that even a single inch of it wouldn't do a pretty decent job, but we'll see. It's really good for this application too, because it is closed cell foam, which makes it completely waterproof. Fiberglass is only insulating when it's dry, so it would have been a bad choice near all the mist. In the end, it looks like it will take about 9 cans to fully fill the walls of the chamber, which is a bit more than I originally guessed, but total cost should be around $60 and not very much work at all. Best thing is how it magically peels away from the plastics in the chamber, that was a real pleasant surpise. Can you imagine how much money I'll save now, only having to chill my nutes, rather than trying to fight all the sunlight hitting the outer surface of the chamber? I figure I'll run a bunch of coils of JG line through an ice chest filled with water from my chiller. I already ran a clear hose side by side of my JG line that runs around the chamber to the solenoids that I can recirculate from with the chilled water from the cooler. I wrapped the lines together with the JG lines and slid over tubes of that foam pipe insulation stuff from the hardware store and, this way I don't have to worry about the cooled solution warming back up before it get's sprayed. I'll play around with it, but if I chill the nutes to around 50 degrees or so, the insulation should keep the cold inside the chamber like how tree farmer does.
I'm really happy guys, this has been a huge road block for me. Wish me luck that my pod temp will be cooler when I finish spraying tomorrow :)
 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
yea thats what id do and run the water through a chiller.

Im serisoly about ready to ditch this hp aero there looking sadder by the day i lowered my ppm down to 700 down from 1000 hopefully that helps the room is around 80. the leaves on 1 plant are all curling downward and are browning and yellowing any ideas?
i wish tree farmer would post how he gets his massive trees to look so healthy! wtf am I doing wrong?!?! they should be growing twice the rate as soil. yet in my other tent i have a 10 gallon airpot with bioterra plus and biocanna nutes and the thing is 3 times the size of the aeros and is a month younger. about ready to switch my whole set up to that unless somone can provide a miracle!!!!
Your ph was way off, and you're probably running the nutes too hot. Don't give up man, you have alot of time and money invested, and in the end it will eventually grow better plants, it's just alot more of a learning curve. You'll also save alot of money on nutes eventually with the lower levels. If there is any chance at all to save those plants, recommend you immediately flush them witih 100% water. Time is of the essence. Run the water for 24 hours I would guess, then try about 400 ppm. Low ppm might slow the growth, but high ppm kills. I don't know if there's a need to ph the pure water since you're not worried about nute uptake, but to be safe, try for close to 5.8 if you want. They probably don't want alot of bright hot lights right now either. There is a good chance you'll lose all those ugly leaves, but you might get it to pull through.
 

dickkhead

Active Member
Your ph was way off, and you're probably running the nutes too hot. Don't give up man, you have alot of time and money invested, and in the end it will eventually grow better plants, it's just alot more of a learning curve. You'll also save alot of money on nutes eventually with the lower levels. If there is any chance at all to save those plants, recommend you immediately flush them witih 100% water. Time is of the essence. Run the water for 24 hours I would guess, then try about 400 ppm. Low ppm might slow the growth, but high ppm kills. I don't know if there's a need to ph the pure water since you're not worried about nute uptake, but to be safe, try for close to 5.8 if you want. They probably don't want alot of bright hot lights right now either. There is a good chance you'll lose all those ugly leaves, but you might get it to pull through.
ok I just might do this run 100% ro water for 24 hours and then start them back with low ppm as you recc. yea i turned one of the lights out. what are you guys using for nutes? im thinking of trying the GH as TF seem to have gotten great results!
 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
ok I just might do this run 100% ro water for 24 hours and then start them back with low ppm as you recc. yea i turned one of the lights out. what are you guys using for nutes? im thinking of trying the GH as TF seem to have gotten great results!
Good show, keep us updated my phallic friend :) Might wanna give some light, the normal hours it was on, so they don;t get that shock too, but try to tone it down, move it further away, turn off a couple bulbs, etc.. If I were you, try the canna Substra, I use it on Atomizer's advice, I believe he got it from G-love on uk420 who had stellar results, and since it was hard to find, I believe tree farmer just uses GH because he can get it to closely approximate the same ratios by a little mixing. But you can get canna easier in the US now, and there is no mixing involved, all you need is grow A/b and flower a/b- and maybe some silica if you like... Takes out alot of possibility for errors, and is proven to grow awesome plants.
 

tree farmer

Well-Known Member
ok I just might do this run 100% ro water for 24 hours and then start them back with low ppm as you recc. yea i turned one of the lights out. what are you guys using for nutes? im thinking of trying the GH as TF seem to have gotten great results!
ive always used GH and in the hydraulic nozzle setups ive had good success just using a NPK ratio of 3-1-2 and calmag mixing the 3 part GH flora series. the 1000ppm and even 700 is alot higher than i ran. ive run as low as 300ppm 4 weeks into flowering. now i could have probably used more p and k as the 3-1-2 is really a veg nute ratio but they always did well so i never bothered with any boosters or bumping up the p and k. flushing is something people overlook in HP. i flushed once a week (or sooner towards the end of flower)until the dtw ran at 30 ppm or less. if you pay attention the dtw will slowly creep up over a certain amount of time depending on chamber size , plant size, nute strenght, etc. this has to be corrected or it throws the system out of balance. you can flush slowly by just changing over to ro water and run a regular mist cycle or you can do like i did and run 15-20 gallons thru the whole system all at once. And yes it does destroy the root hairs temporaryly but they come back quickly and the roots just love the bath. before i started doing this i had slow growth and all kinds of wierd shit happenning. but when i realized that with such small amounts of mist being delivered to the roots in a cycle you are going to have build up and this has to be flushed. this is especially true in small chambers with large root masses. when the dtw ppm is the same or higher than the input i flushed. even in my lp aero systems i flushed and it always made a world of difference keeping everything in balance. short mist cycles just cant flush the excess salts away in a developed root mass. my motto when i had problems with plant looking defiecencies was to lower the ppm. wait and see if things turn around if not lower it some more. wait and repeat. now if this doent work then id start going up slowly and in a couple of instances going up corrected the problems but most of the time it was lowereing the ppm that corrected the problems. also with very low ppms you cant go to full strenght on the calmag because that would make up 90 percent of the total ppm. working the problem slowly and methodically will most certainly get the answers. ive never had a run i couldnt turn around. some took a long........ time but i got them figured out and then the next run with the same strain was a cakewalk.
 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Really appreciate the input tf... I always guessed, but did not know for sure about the need for flushing... I have one minor issue that's been bothering me about my setup. The basin which is the bottom of my chamber is in a way that it keeps an 1/2 inch or so of waste effluent in the bottom, so when it does drain out the tube, it isn't a very good representation of what is going on at the immediate time. Trying to come up with a solution of a cup or something that can be bled seperately, either that, or I have to remake the bottom some how, but that wouldn't be very easy. To further explain, I am using this deck box, that had dual walls all around, including the bottom. So I just drilled a few holes in the top wall of the floor, and the waste drains into it. On the back is a 1/4" JG bulkhead and a foot or so of tubing that leads off my deck to the downstairs below. Because of the fact the tube is mounted a half inch or so from the bottom, it doen't drain completely. Matter of fact, the surface tension and the 1/4" drain tube make it to where it only drains every few days, once the water level rises high enough where it's weight breaks the tension it flows, and then it drains a stream flow for a few minutes like someone's taking a leak off the deck- haha.
 

Mike Young

Well-Known Member
Very nice! I would've never thought to flush, even if things seem to be going well. That's badass. I know everybody uses GH or Canna, but I've had no issues with my H&G aqua flakes. I really don't put alot of thought/faith into nutrients. I know lots of people get into it quite a bit. I just make sure to document everything I do. Part of the reason I was having ph issues is, and I'm ashamed to admit it, but I thought I had my formula down, and didn't need to replace my shitty ph pen. Oops. Anyway, DH: you should not give up just yet. I can attest that not having all the variables nailed down can have worse consequences on you than the plants themselves. I was there until a couple of weeks ago. All I can say is that when shit starts to come together, you'll be pretty happy.
 

Mike Young

Well-Known Member
Really appreciate the input tf... I always guessed, but did not know for sure about the need for flushing... I have one minor issue that's been bothering me about my setup. The basin which is the bottom of my chamber is in a way that it keeps an 1/2 inch or so of waste effluent in the bottom, so when it does drain out the tube, it isn't a very good representation of what is going on at the immediate time. Trying to come up with a solution of a cup or something that can be bled seperately, either that, or I have to remake the bottom some how, but that wouldn't be very easy. To further explain, I am using this deck box, that had dual walls all around, including the bottom. So I just drilled a few holes in the top wall of the floor, and the waste drains into it. On the back is a 1/4" JG bulkhead and a foot or so of tubing that leads off my deck to the downstairs below. Because of the fact the tube is mounted a half inch or so from the bottom, it doen't drain completely. Matter of fact, the surface tension and the 1/4" drain tube make it to where it only drains every few days, once the water level rises high enough where it's weight breaks the tension it flows, and then it drains a stream flow for a few minutes like someone's taking a leak off the deck- haha.

Would a flush mount drain to the bottom be something you could slap in while ya got it apart? Hell, if ya gotta tip the whole thing a few degrees to get proper drainage, I doubt your plants would notice. :)

I really hope the great stuff gives a a couple of degrees. I think you made the right decision in your choice. I only wish I would've been there at the hardware store with ya. The blue can for windows & doors is actually the highest quality they make. Probably not a huge deal. It actually expands less than the original formula, but is more dense. Doh! Well, if doesn't quite get ya there I'd be happy to help ya explore some heat exchange ideas. Sounds fun. I have the opposite problem. I did have the brilliant idea to elevate my heater to about 5'. Keeps the plants in my room 80, while my res, accumulator, & roots keep at about 65. Cold weather can have it's benefits.

Oh, the reason I suggested the corrugated plastic is that it was the cheapest thing I could think of that resembled the heat shield they use for the space shuttle. Shit literally looks like honeycomb. The more NASA the better, lol. I also looked at cooling towers for thermo nuclear plants. I doubt you wanna try & tackle air cooled though. VW didn't even stick that one out.
 
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