True HP Aero For 2011

Mike Young said:

You will pop that bladder the first time you try to fill it if you don't put a higher air charge on it. You'll want to set you're air pressure to 2 psi below your pressure switches cut in pressure. You may consider doing a little more reading up on the subject, as not only are you risking trashing your tank, the thing could very well turn into a bomb in the wrong hands. And, don't make the same mistake I did, relying on my compressors air gauge to accurately display the air charge. I was 10psi under when I finally decided to get the digi. Doh!

Damn, that's alot of lost info. Those DEA database purges are a killer, lol.

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I will have to do this! thanks

Mike Young said:

You'd know if your bladder popped. I guess in a smaller tank, it's not as big a deal. I know that in my 19 gallon tank, being 10 lbs under on the air side, meant that I was pumping almost a gallon more than I thought into the bladder. I would Think that if I only had 40 lbs of air pressing on my bladder, it would expand quite a bit. I can't say if that would be harder on it than less expansion, more total pressure, but I would think atomizer would have a pretty good answer for that... I can tell you that I got better mist from having a properly tuned tank. In fact, the results were pretty immediate.

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Mike Young said:

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Some pics. I think next time around I'm gonna have to add a second set of nozzles at the bottom to activate when roots take control of the top.

nice pom poms!! about time we get some root porn! great work!!

Something you might appreciate... I cut my tap roots off the plant on the right a month ago, and left the other alone. No difference that I can see, and the root floor on the left is from a single tap root. You can see it in the 4th pic.

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Not as good as Mike's pom pom's, but mine are really filling out after changing the timing on the feedings. Saw really nice results after only 4 days.

Naw, those look pretty much look like mine early in. I found that in the earlier stages, longer in times are necessary for healthy plants. It wasn't until a month or so in, was I able to back down the timing to get serious fuzz. That could have alot to do with me & my lack of experience. I know how to build the crazy ideas in my head, and keep to a regimen, but when it comes to knowing a plants needs... I'm always trying to improve. I'm stoked, cause its almost time to cut clones from my WW for the next go.

Mike Young said:

Naw, those look pretty much look like mine early in. I found that in the earlier stages, longer in times are necessary for healthy plants. It wasn't until a month or so in, was I able to back down the timing to get serious fuzz. That could have alot to do with me & my lack of experience. I know how to build the crazy ideas in my head, and keep to a regimen, but when it comes to knowing a plants needs... I'm always trying to improve. I'm stoked, cause its almost time to cut clones from my WW for the next go.

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Thats exactly what I did, soak them early, get a good root structure, nice long spaghetti noodles, then cut back the times and watched them fuzz out. I'm researching and experimenting alot with root structure, root pruning, feeding times, and environmental conditioning and how that all effects whats going on on top. I've found with long feeding times, and lots of red spectrum like HPS during veg really makes the plants stretch alot. Same feeding times with a mix of spectrums and the plants develop very nice internode spacing and lots of side shoots. Now that the feeding times are cut back, it is starting to bush out and fill out the SCROG canopy and lots and lots of new roots and of course...FUZZ. So hopefully when flowering comes, I may kick up the feeding times again and watch them explode!

I've also found that experimentation is the only real way to quench my thirst. A month ago, I completely cut out the root mat at the bottom of one chamber, and left the other alone. I cant see a noticable dif, or def, lol. Really has me second guessing things.

I've found my strain likes hot and dry conditions with long feeding times, and cooler humid conditions with the shorter feeding times. My CGE is definately trying my patience.....gonna run a swamp cooler during veg and a/c during flower. I've found that root pruning definately helps the lateral roots develop alot, but the only problem is I feel it stunts vertical growth of the top canopy.

Mike Young said:

Naw, those look pretty much look like mine early in. I found that in the earlier stages, longer in times are necessary for healthy plants. It wasn't until a month or so in, was I able to back down the timing to get serious fuzz. That could have alot to do with me & my lack of experience. I know how to build the crazy ideas in my head, and keep to a regimen, but when it comes to knowing a plants needs... I'm always trying to improve. I'm stoked, cause its almost time to cut clones from my WW for the next go.

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Are you going to clone with your set-up?

Mike Young said:

I'm always trying to improve. I'm stoked, cause its almost time to cut clones from my WW for the next go.

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You cloning that one in flower? Just wondering why not clone just before you flip to 12/12, that's what i do and i get way faster turn around time when clones don't have to turn there internal clock back to veg mode.

DIYer said:

You cloning that one in flower? Just wondering why not clone just before you flip to 12/12, that's what i do and i get way faster turn around time when clones don't have to turn there internal clock back to veg mode.

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Naw, I got a widow in dwc that is looking hella good. It was that clone I got to root from a nug. I'm not talkin late flower, I mean I chopped, and thought, what the hell? I'm gonna take cuts in the next week or so for zero turnaround in my rig, hopefully. This strain will show off my hard work a hellava lot better.

Prof X: I stick to pretty primitive cloning. Rapid rooters/humidome. The only way I've found success. I killed alot of hopefuls, lol.

Mike Young said:

Naw, I got a widow in dwc that is looking hella good. It was that clone I got to root from a nug. I'm not talkin late flower, I mean I chopped, and thought, what the hell? I'm gonna take cuts in the next week or so for zero turnaround in my rig, hopefully. This strain will show off my hard work a hellava lot better.

Prof X: I stick to pretty primitive cloning. Rapid rooters/humidome. The only way I've found success. I killed alot of hopefuls, lol.

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I've had pretty good success cloning so far....just make sure environment is dialed in....higher res temps near 72-73....stick cuttings under domes with airstones in water....cool air temps around 65-68....use 2ft aquarium bulbs 24/7... this has all helped for me

Mike Young said:

I stick to pretty primitive cloning. Rapid rooters/humidome.

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dit-motafuckin-to

So I asked around locally and got schooled by some old-time pump pro's. They loved the pump...but not for the short run times needed for HPA. They said I would need to run the pump for at least 2 minutes for it to cool itself, and that a pressure tank sized to my pump would run me over $500 bucks. Anyone have a work around or should I just bite the bullet and buy a small diaphragm pump and a small acc? ($260 combo quoted by local pump shop)

I was also told that sub-second bursts weren't possible due to the nature of the solenoids? Any product info on can achieve this would be awesome

CorralitosGrown99 said:

So I asked around locally and got schooled by some old-time pump pro's. They loved the pump...but not for the short run times needed for HPA. They said I would need to run the pump for at least 2 minutes for it to cool itself, and that a pressure tank sized to my pump would run me over $500 bucks. Anyone have a work around or should I just bite the bullet and buy a small diaphragm pump and a small acc? ($260 combo quoted by local pump shop)

I was also told that sub-second bursts weren't possible due to the nature of the solenoids? Any product info on can achieve this would be awesome

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Plenty of solenoids can do sub one second bursts. The timer is a little harder to come by imo. I think you'll likely be better off buying a proper pump. For 260 you can get a good pump and a 10 gallon accumulator - probably better than the combo- but feel free to post a link if you want feedback before you buy.

The guys that told you it isnt possible to get sub 1 second arent trying hard enough
I get about 200millisecond worth of hydraulic and electrical delay, the shortest pulse i can manage (solenoid right at the nozzle) is 0.3 seconds using a timer setting of 0.1

I guess I should have qualified "pump pro's". one was the guy at the pump shop (residential/commercial not high-tolerance industrial) and the other was a retired pump installer/tech at the hydro store in town. Nice guy but not to fond of aero...

I'm working through an idea that I think could give incredibly short bursts...I hesitate to quantify how short as I don't even have a system yet, but if it works you'll be sure to hear about it.

Hopefully I should be able to handle the arduino timer project and finding a pump, but i'm lost on the solenoids and the accumulator. it seems the well water pressure tanks aren't rated super-high and the industrial ones don't quote prices to non-commercial DIYers. Do most people run the Flotecs that you can pick up at home creepo or are they more specialized than that?

anyone know what kind of store might carry 1/4" rigid schedule 40 PVC w/o special order? I can order it, but i'd rather pick it up and avoid shipping costs if i can.

CorralitosGrown99 said:

I guess I should have qualified "pump pro's". one was the guy at the pump shop (residential/commercial not high-tolerance industrial) and the other was a retired pump installer/tech at the hydro store in town. Nice guy but not to fond of aero...

I'm working through an idea that I think could give incredibly short bursts...I hesitate to quantify how short as I don't even have a system yet, but if it works you'll be sure to hear about it.

Hopefully I should be able to handle the arduino timer project and finding a pump, but i'm lost on the solenoids and the accumulator. it seems the well water pressure tanks aren't rated super-high and the industrial ones don't quote prices to non-commercial DIYers. Do most people run the Flotecs that you can pick up at home creepo or are they more specialized than that?

anyone know what kind of store might carry 1/4" rigid schedule 40 PVC w/o special order? I can order it, but i'd rather pick it up and avoid shipping costs if i can.

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Grasshopper (Joking)- I'm still urging you to read the first 20 pages or so of this thread, so many answers are there and links to the original threads where the info was retrieved from that you just can't afford not to if you're really serious about this. Don't use PVC- and I doubt it even comes in 1/4" does it? The main reason to not use pvc is that it stretches too much and won't provide a crisp response, although I admit it's probably due to the larger diameter and I don't know if 1/4" might be different if it even exists. Flowjet, Sureflo, and Aquatec are all good names in low flow, high pressure diaphram pumps.
I have left names, links and even pics of all the products I used in my build, if nothing else it's a good start and works. You will still have questions, but at least they will be ones that aren't already answered. I also listed some solenoids that work well, and r0m30 here uses some different ones that seem to be pretty good too. Also some cheap accumulator tanks rated to 150psi. Don't worry- this is all quite possible, and not as complex as it initially seems, the devil is in the details and you have to have a good understanding of the underlying concepts to know why and what to spend your hard earned cash on. I'd be curious to hear your ideas on ultrashort mist cycles and how you'd achieve them.

I run a 19 gallon flotec at 100 psi. That's what it was tested to, and I try not to let it get over. Been working for months now, and was only $170.

Sorry about the repeats...I think I'm just reading it too fast and not letting it soak in unless it relates to the idea in my head. Maybe I'll just print it out and try to read it without the distraction of the web..

They do make the 1/4"...they even go down to 1/8". Really those are just nominal dimensions though the 1/8" has and actual I.D of .249

Its just a special order unless I can find someone who already uses it around here.

OK so it sounds like a few hundo more...I might have to sell my pump just to buy the acc and pump..I'll keep my fingers crossed for something to pop up on Craigslist

CorralitosGrown99 said:

Sorry about the repeats...I think I'm just reading it too fast and not letting it soak in unless it relates to the idea in my head. Maybe I'll just print it out and try to read it without the distraction of the web..

They do make the 1/4"...they even go down to 1/8". Really those are just nominal dimensions though the 1/8" has and actual I.D of .249

Its just a special order unless I can find someone who already uses it around here.

OK so it sounds like a few hundo more...I might have to sell my pump just to buy the acc and pump..I'll keep my fingers crossed for something to pop up on Craigslist

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We mostly use Pex or John Guest tubing because it's perfect for the job- might look into that too? No worries man, it's nice to see another person interested always.

yeah I still have a bunch of pex and related stuff from a remodel so maybe i'll dig that out and try to incorporate it into system...Might not be HPA yet but I'll get there...

I saw some guy was using a hand pump to pressurize a huge acc on another site...anyone tried gaining the pressure through water columns and weighted pistons? I got a 100 ft tree which means ~40 psi in an open system