True HP Aero For 2011

MuSt,... gr0w,... biGGer! Gonna keep my 5 gallon buckets for the young ladies in veg for now, but for flowering I'm going 20 gallon Brute trash cans. The 5 gallon net pot bucket lids will drop right in (after cutting a hole), and this time spin without also spinning the nozzles. I wasn't able to do this in the buckets because i mounted the misters into the top of the net pot lids, not into the sides like i did on the trash can in the pic. So I'm hoping this is better for more root growth, as well as more even root growth out of the net pot. As is, i get a lot of root growth out of those net pots primarily on either side where the misters were constantly located. My room isn't so filled with light that i don't rotate plants, i do so they finish evenly, this design should make them much easier to spin as well. Since i have it to spare, i was thinking id just toss a layer of hydroton in the bottom to keep the roots down there out of standing water. In the name of DTW i was thinking of using that outer ring in the bottom of the can as the collection place. Run a 1/4" line from the very bottom of all the cans to my drain pump, and suck out the DTW every so often, before it floats the clay balls i toss in



Thoughts,.. ideas?..

DIYer said:

MuSt,... gr0w,... biGGer! Gonna keep my 5 gallon buckets for the young ladies in veg for now, but for flowering I'm going 20 gallon Brute trash cans. The 5 gallon net pot bucket lids will drop right in (after cutting a hole), and this time spin without also spinning the nozzles. I wasn't able to do this in the buckets because i mounted the misters into the top of the net pot lids, not into the sides like i did on the trash can in the pic. So I'm hoping this is better for more root growth, as well as more even root growth out of the net pot. As is, i get a lot of root growth out of those net pots primarily on either side where the misters were constantly located. My room isn't so filled with light that i don't rotate plants, i do so they finish evenly, this design should make them much easier to spin as well. Since i have it to spare, i was thinking id just toss a layer of hydroton in the bottom to keep the roots down there out of standing water. In the name of DTW i was thinking of using that outer ring in the bottom of the can as the collection place. Run a 1/4" line from the very bottom of all the cans to my drain pump, and suck out the DTW every so often, before it floats the clay balls i toss in

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Thoughts,.. ideas?..

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Im considering ding the same thing the 5 g buckets are good for early stages. I have 1 in a trash can now and its ding nice! I like how your cans have that lip in the bottom for drainage if I was you id put a half inch drain adapter bulkhead fitting in there and run 1/2 poly to your drain pump. thats what i do and it works great. 1/4'' is to small for drainage in my opinion it will prob end up clogging up on you

ha, just mounted the 1/4" i had on hand, and that will tie into the system i already have going.. but i hear ya, i might have to go bigger later. I use to get clog ups till i started running a filter pre pump, since i've been ok for me, but i dont have far to run with it

but ya that dtw ring is going to be nice, in my buckets i had to elevate them off the ground since i went with a gravity fed dtw setup. keeping all the runoff contained should lower humidity even further for the crystally ladies..

EDIT: i was thinking of maybe making a root barrier screen in the bottom to totally elevate the lower roots,.. they'll grow into hydroton just tossed in the bottom

HiGHidea hour,......

Check that first pic i took top of this page,..see the 5gal net pot lid i mounted into the garbage can top?.. it spins real free,.. and in the name of automating the rotation of my plants ... what do you think about this,.. it would be super easy to mount a 1 RPM synchronous motor to spin the net pots in there. Meaning the motor spins at 1 rpm, and the plant would rotate around 10X slower then that if i went with say a 1" rubber wheel on the motor to turn it,.. right along that 1/2" edge sticking up. Any root touching the bottom might twist up together,.. but as is there just piled atop one another now,.. couldn't have hydration down there if i did this,.. would be better if the motor turned 180 degrees one way, then 180 degrees back the other,.. not sure how to make them do that though. Oh the even root growth that'd give eh?.. what with the misters moving every cycle,.. and perhaps a gentle stimulation to the roots hanging in the air, not to mention the even growth id get up top without any effort on my part... thoughts?

dickkhead said:

yea Im using 2 5 gallon buckets stacked on one another and there not even that big and are outgrowing them! there black buckets as well which could be adding to my issue?! my chamber temps are prob around 85 i need to check but ill try wrapping them in reflective material hopefully it will help.

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yeah, try double bucketing them, and wrap with fiberglass batting and a layer of reflextix- might help a bit.

DIYer said:

MuSt,... gr0w,... biGGer! Gonna keep my 5 gallon buckets for the young ladies in veg for now, but for flowering I'm going 20 gallon Brute trash cans. The 5 gallon net pot bucket lids will drop right in (after cutting a hole), and this time spin without also spinning the nozzles. I wasn't able to do this in the buckets because i mounted the misters into the top of the net pot lids, not into the sides like i did on the trash can in the pic. So I'm hoping this is better for more root growth, as well as more even root growth out of the net pot. As is, i get a lot of root growth out of those net pots primarily on either side where the misters were constantly located. My room isn't so filled with light that i don't rotate plants, i do so they finish evenly, this design should make them much easier to spin as well. Since i have it to spare, i was thinking id just toss a layer of hydroton in the bottom to keep the roots down there out of standing water. In the name of DTW i was thinking of using that outer ring in the bottom of the can as the collection place. Run a 1/4" line from the very bottom of all the cans to my drain pump, and suck out the DTW every so often, before it floats the clay balls i toss in

View attachment 2026584 View attachment 2026656View attachment 2026657

Thoughts,.. ideas?..

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I like the brute design... Hopefully you'll get the coverage you need with 2 nozzles. Might want to play around with nozzle height, as if they are too close to the lid you'll get alot of drip condensation from the top- but you'll know after you fire them.

DIYer said:

HiGHidea hour,......

Check that first pic i took top of this page,..see the 5gal net pot lid i mounted into the garbage can top?.. it spins real free,.. and in the name of automating the rotation of my plants ... what do you think about this,.. it would be super easy to mount a 1 RPM synchronous motor to spin the net pots in there. Meaning the motor spins at 1 rpm, and the plant would rotate around 10X slower then that if i went with say a 1" rubber wheel on the motor to turn it,.. right along that 1/2" edge sticking up. Any root touching the bottom might twist up together,.. but as is there just piled atop one another now,.. couldn't have hydration down there if i did this,.. would be better if the motor turned 180 degrees one way, then 180 degrees back the other,.. not sure how to make them do that though. Oh the even root growth that'd give eh?.. what with the misters moving every cycle,.. and perhaps a gentle stimulation to the roots hanging in the air, not to mention the even growth id get up top without any effort on my part... thoughts?

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It might work until the roots grow into the sides, then it might get a little funky. Best idea is to rotate the trashcan somehow, but then the water lines become an issue. So getting back to moving lights is probably still the easieset route. Definitely like the addition of a root screen. 1/4" drain works okay, but it takes a little buildup of water weight to break the initial surface tension. If you have a tight rootscreen, then it will filter out any possible obstruction causing material. Gotta make sure that screen is tight though, as the tiniest crack will allow tiny roots underneath, which will eventually grow and push through. I am curious to see how a brute would work, I also considered the idea myself, but came to the conclusion it *might* still be a bit on the smallish side.

Trichy Bastard said:

yeah, try double bucketing them, and wrap with fiberglass batting and a layer of reflextix- might help a bit.

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yea in my 2nd tent i have the buckets doubled up on 3 sites and a 20 gallon trash can on antoher site and the roots are def out growing one site and the plant isnt even that big. Id like to pull as much as possible out of a 4x8 tent and i feel like these sites arnt going to give the resutls Im after! any suggestions? Im always tring to think what would TF do lol

i almost fill the room im in now with six 4-5' flowering plants,.. so going 4x more on there root chamber is going to be interesting,.. might very well have me cutting back the number of flowering plants i roll with. and of course the easiest way would be to move lights,.. easiest way to grow would be for you to plant in dirt too, but i don't see you trying to figure that one out

dickkhead said:

yea in my 2nd tent i have the buckets doubled up on 3 sites and a 20 gallon trash can on antoher site and the roots are def out growing one site and the plant isnt even that big. Id like to pull as much as possible out of a 4x8 tent and i feel like these sites arnt going to give the resutls Im after! any suggestions? Im always tring to think what would TF do lol

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Do you think you could install the top bucket ontop of a larger bottom bucket- like a brute with lid hole slightly smaller than the small bucket's diameter. You'd have to rework the nozzles though. In a way- this is a good problem to have, you could have worse issues like your plants barely filling the buckets It seems your modifications have outdone the expected results of that system you bought...

Taps Music Please" Here's a shot of some of the best veg roots I've had. Alas, they belong to a real dick, male that is. So out it comes just as soon as I need the spot. Soon. Very soon.

I have 3 more X seedlings doing vg in the bubbler, BUT, also one more Monster Clone. If it starts rooting, I will have to go with twin pods, but, I've still got the maturing female to finish. So many plants, so little room under the big tent. Need a bigger tent.

Trichy Bastard said:

Do you think you could install the top bucket ontop of a larger bottom bucket- like a brute with lid hole slightly smaller than the small bucket's diameter. You'd have to rework the nozzles though. In a way- this is a good problem to have, you could have worse issues like your plants barely filling the buckets It seems your modifications have outdone the expected results of that system you bought...

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yea thats an idea! I might just fill in the gaps around the tent with more sites or some soil plants well see

DIYer said:

i almost fill the room im in now with six 4-5' flowering plants,.. so going 4x more on there root chamber is going to be interesting,.. might very well have me cutting back the number of flowering plants i roll with. and of course the easiest way would be to move lights,.. easiest way to grow would be for you to plant in dirt too, but i don't see you trying to figure that one out

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actualy one tent is soil incase the aero fails!

PetFlora said:

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how do your roots ever get to grow out laterally if there forced down through a pvc tube? what you got against net pots? lol

DIYer said:

how do your roots ever get to grow out laterally if there forced down through a pvc tube? what you got against net pots? lol

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He's been doing it ever since Podracer days. I do agree however, that a netpot might be more beneficial. Also, you can try using the lightly packed rochwool chunks in there like Atomizer recommended. The roots can work through it faster than a cube or plug, and it provides just enough buffer in the beginning, but as soon as the roots exit the tiny amount in the netcup, you're still mediumless. The rockwool tends to help lock in the roots once they establish too, I always wonder if that setup you have will let a plant fall through if it ever got some weight to it. Also, you'll be able to get the mist up un those roots better than having a recessed hole where the mist can't get up into as well.

To go even a step further, ive been thinking lately of putting something in my trash cans, to help the roots a few inches down from the bottom of the net pots to branch out even further then my big ass 6" net pots above allow them to. Haven't come up with a design i like yet though, not sure if they'd even enjoy a little more to hold on to where they seem to gather heaviest,.. but maybe if some small structure was present, in the center mass where mist really isn't getting to anyways, maybe roots would spread out even more then most of us are getting them to.


EDIT: Maybe just glue a net pot, upside down to the bottom of another net pot?...

...id have to drill some holes in the bottom, it'd act like a shallow catch pan for water, but that'd force all roots out and down in a much bigger diameter. just an idea...

DIYer said:

To go even a step further, ive been thinking lately of putting something in my trash cans, to help the roots a few inches down from the bottom of the net pots to branch out even further then my big ass 6" net pots above allow them to. Haven't come up with a design i like yet though, not sure if they'd even enjoy a little more to hold on to where they seem to gather heaviest,.. but maybe if some small structure was present, in the center mass where mist really isn't getting to anyways, maybe roots would spread out even more then most of us are getting them to.


EDIT: Maybe just glue a net pot, upside down to the bottom of another net pot?...
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...id have to drill some holes in the bottom, it'd act like a shallow catch pan for water, but that'd force all roots out and down in a much bigger diameter. just an idea...

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Anything is worth a try. The roots seems to head for the bottom first, then climb up the walls. I opted to include a mesh on all walls of the chamber to help their climbing process, after seeing tree farmer try it. So, the best design so far seems to be a rootscreen that keeps the roots out of the bottom effluent, and then include a trellace structure for them to climb around on on the outer walls. I have always wondered if more trellacing in the middle of the chamber might be beneficial. He also tried using some bio balls in the bottom of the chamber, but I think the idea was abandoned in favor of the rootscreen from what I gather.

On another note, I am considering creating a chamber out of pvc pipe ran close together, that I can create a vacuum in. An inch of foam has a r-value of 5-7, and inch of vacuum is 50-70, about ten times more efficient. They do sell VIP (vacuum insulated paneling), but it seems like it might be expensive. Problems I have to get around are how to feed the mist line through the chamber walls, and if it's going to work well with the gaps between the tubular surfaces. Was thinking I cound use some spray foam to fill in the gaps and shape it after drying. Not sure if this idea will get anywhere, but it's worth pondering. BTW- was going to include a valve somewhere, with a hookup to a foodsaver vacuum device that could evacuate the air and then shut the valve. Not sure if a foodsaver is powerful enough, but vacuum pumps seems to be under 50 dollars anyway.

Hey tb, hows that freaking fogger cloner coming along? i dug mine out last night, couldn't let you be the only one playing with the stuff, lol.. I had an idea for keeping the heat out of the root zone area, which was always my biggest gripe with the thing. I'm trying moving the heat to next to the roots, not under them like before. I'm testing it now,.. wanna see how warm it gets in the root zone area after a day, or till i see the temp stop climbing. I've got a remote RH&temp probe right where the roots would be,.. reading 99%RH - 81.2F atm,.. room temp is just a degree or two lower,.. but we'll see what it tops out at.



I made an auto-refill from an old wine bottle so the fogger never shuts off, the weight of it in the center helps all the water that bubbles from the fogger to drip back into the where the water is held. Inside i made a water proof 6" diameter column out of old plastic gallon jugs stacked two high, total height of which is about 1" below the bucket lid. Filled column with about 1.75 gallons of water, set a 6" net pot into top of column, and dropped the fogger into it. Drilled a hole in top edge of bucket to let fogger cord out, as well as run an air hose into the bottom of the column of water, it helps move the fog over the top edge. Fog falls down/fills a 3" gap between the column of warm water, and the inside bucket edge. This is where the roots would hang,.. as long as it doesn't get too warm in there.


You can't see how much the fog fills the gap in the pic, with the lid off my ceiling fan sucks it away too fast, but you get an idea what i built anyway. it fills it as full of fog as the center column, 99% on the RH meter,.. and i was thinking,.. since i can see the temp rise real slow,.. even if it does get too warm in there in time, it might work to have an exhaust fan hooked up, pump out the warm every few hours perhaps. It fills with fog pretty fast. What's ideal root zone temp? What's too hot?... anytime ive ever tried this fog shit I've had wiltiy overly warm clippings.

EDIT: Well 2 hours later I'm up to 88F, that's 10F hotter then room temp.. man i hate how hot these suckers get,.. I'm thinking thats not ideal,.. I'm thinking a circulating water pump to remove the warm water,... cool it,.. then pump it back, might be an option. How the heck do they expect us to use these if the fog can't travel far before its useless, and the fogger head gets too hot to keep close. If they weren't so damn cool looking and efficient at making fog id sell it. I haven't used a drop from the wine bottle yet

EDIT EDIT: 4 hours later,..
Decided to go bigger,.. i filled the bucket full of water and dropped it inside a 16'x16'x19' rectangular black tote thats 1-2" taller then the bucket. So same premies, over flow from bucket fills surrounding container. Area being bigger this time temps are lower, 74F room temp, 82.4F inside root zone, down from 88, RH is still 99% though. Still higher temps then id like, but i feel like im making progress, and could actually use this for fresh clippings, maybe if i set the fogger on a timer to run only so often... not sure if this would be enough moisture for roots though,.. ill have to test what RH drops to during off time. Sure seems like a lot of water and energy to root a clone but hey, if it does it faster and hairier i guess its worth it right? lol

EDIT EDIT EDIT:....
man oh man,.. a warm 5 gallon bucket of water in a tote is insulated way too well to benefit at all from a timer shutting down the fogger,.. once the heat is built up in there, you're fucked,.. pump it out is the only option i see,.. exchange it, or run it through a chiller. Unless maybe i could insulate the warmth of the water from the root zone with a buffer or air all its own, complete with a fan to move the air in the gap... christ these things get hot!

Like I said, I already had a fix for the heat. The fogger is in a 5 gallon lowe's bucket with lid, make a float for it, so no matter the water level, the head is optimally just under the surface. I have a bought float, but they are easily made with a round cutout of styrofoam. Add an output port somewhere near the top sidewall of bucket connected with a couple feet of pool vac hose where the fog is remotely xferred to my root chamber. A pc fan blowing down in a hole in the bucket's lid pushes the fog into the root chamber through the pool vac line. Most of the heat is in the fluid, not in the fog, so keeping the fluid seperate controlls temps well.

My biggest concern, is by forcefully blowing the fog, it tends to exit the root chamber from various cracks and crevices, fogging my whole house. I actually like the humidity, but I have a little concern over whether inhaling atomized nutes is so healthy. In veg I probably won't go much over 300 ppm, so perhaps this isn't much to worry about.

Have you cloned in it yet? Is it working to root plants with a pc fan blowing fog all over the place, and a few feet down wind at that? I know I've read others say thats way too far to carry nutes. I never liked pc fans on fog, been there don that, it moves it too much like you say.

I cut a clipping and have it in the 83F fog now,.. not too bad for the room temp being 80F,.. i think i sold the tote system and timer too short, after having it run for a few hours its not bad, the clipping looks good. Now to see how long till it roots.

DIYer said:

Have you cloned in it yet? Is it working to root plants with a pc fan blowing fog all over the place, and a few feet down wind at that? I know I've read others say thats way too far to carry nutes. I never liked pc fans on fog, been there don that, it moves it too much like you say.

I cut a clipping and have it in the 83F fog now,.. not too bad for the room temp being 80F,.. i think i sold the tote system and timer too short, after having it run for a few hours its not bad, the clipping looks good. Now to see how long till it roots.

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Not yet in this particular setup, but I have cloned well in fog with a fan blowing down into the chamber that the plants and fogger were both in. I bought a commerical system, and that's how it was setup. It seems to have better results than most do with foggers, but I am hoping to take it one step further my way. The 2 foot run is fine for the fog I believe, the rootchamber got covered in dew eventually. Need to check the ppms again to see if there is any nute fallout in this system however.