True HP Aero For 2011

Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Mountain High7 said:
Hey guys. Been a longtime lurker and wanted to thank everyone for all the great info they've contributed to the thread. I'm beginning to source parts for my own aero grow and had a couple of questions about the timer.

I see a lot of people are using the ATC 422 series timer. It looks to be a good timer. I'm glad they make a 12v version as I'm running everything off a deep cycle battery. Is it possible to run two different on/off cycles with this timer, one for daytime and one for night. I would like to be able to have different cycles for day and night. I figure the plants will be transpiring less at night so they can use longer off periods at night. I believe Tree Farmer talked about this in his thread but I'm not sure exactly how he accomplished it. If this timer doesn't allow for that, does anyone know a 12v one that can do it? or an easy way to rig a system like that up?

Also, how many solenoids can be operated off the 422 timer?

Sorry for throwing off the flow of the thread with a parts question. Keep up the good work everyone. This is really cutting edge stuff and its great to see all this collaboration between like minded individuals.
Click to expand...
Yes, what Mike said and I'll add/elaborate. I too am looking for a way to cut the cycles at night because you are correct, the plant needs less water/nutes, and there is less heat as well. The simplest fix is to put the 422 on a cheap on/off timer that sets it to turn off for an hour or so a few times a night. I too am on deep cycle battry- all 12v, and it seems those 12v timers are alot more expensive than their 110v counterparts. Most are about 60$, but I may have found a $15 one, if so I will definitely post the link. The timer can likely support more solenoids than you'll ever use. Just check the specs of the relay's maximum current, and figure out what the sum of all your needed solenoids is. Another nice thing is the electricity that powers the timer is seperate from what it's relay controls- meaning you could control 110v solenoids from a 12v timer module or vice versa if necessary. I'm going to also post a review of this other timer hammer21 listed, it's a nice alternative, but run's on 110v power, and although we can use inverters, I dont like the idea of another point of failure. Plus I am personally a huge fan of 12v. For $60 I could buy a solar panel that would trickle charge my whole setup, and put my rig anywhere in the forest off grid if I chose ;)...
 
K

Kdn

Member
TB, you should look into Arduino or a similar platform. If you need help I am here to help you figure it out. Even if you arent a hardware guy or a programmer it is easy to get started(and hooked) on it. With a few lines of code and a few bucks and a bit of patients you can have your timer timed hehe. My test setup is still chugging away, relays clicking away, solenoids firing, pump pumping, and sensors reporting. All under the careful watch of an 8bit uC that never needs a rest and is always eager to bang bits. I added a GPS unit to it and now it always knows the time and though the real time clock was nice this unit is great and a lot of fun to play with too.
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Kdn said:
TB, you should look into Arduino or a similar platform. If you need help I am here to help you figure it out. Even if you arent a hardware guy or a programmer it is easy to get started(and hooked) on it. With a few lines of code and a few bucks and a bit of patients you can have your timer timed hehe. My test setup is still chugging away, relays clicking away, solenoids firing, pump pumping, and sensors reporting. All under the careful watch of an 8bit uC that never needs a rest and is always eager to bang bits. I added a GPS unit to it and now it always knows the time and though the real time clock was nice this unit is great and a lot of fun to play with too.
Click to expand...
Hey Kdn- good to hear from you buddy... Well, my first question is how much does the arduino cost to get started? Have any links to learn more about it?

EDIT: Okay google taught me more, looks really cool man. The boards are only $26 bucks or so on mouser too! KDN, can you help me on what I'd need to buy to best control my timer and turn it off a few times at night, as well as plug in a float sensor for my res (which float sensor switch I already have) and have it sound some sort of piezo alarm when the res gets low? Also- if I gought the parts, would you be willing to help me program the thing to do these functions if I run into a wall? If so, I'll buy the parts from mouser tomorrow!

Also- perhaps if the night cycle was orchestrated by a photocell, that would be real cool as the daylight hours change throughout the year...
 
K

Kdn

Member
Trichy Bastard said:
Hey Kdn- good to hear from you buddy... Well, my first question is how much does the arduino cost to get started? Have any links to learn more about it?

EDIT: Okay google taught me more, looks really cool man. The boards are only $26 bucks or so on mouser too! KDN, can you help me on what I'd need to buy to best control my timer and turn it off a few times at night, as well as plug in a float sensor for my res (which float sensor switch I already have) and have it sound some sort of piezo alarm when the res gets low? Also- if I gought the parts, would you be willing to help me program the thing to do these functions if I run into a wall? If so, I'll buy the parts from mouser tomorrow!

Also- perhaps if the night cycle was orchestrated by a photocell, that would be real cool as the daylight hours change throughout the year...
Click to expand...
Sure thing TB, its really not that hard and this is a good project to kinda jump into it too. It sounds like you already got the idea down. I can send you a couple relay boards that should have no problem interfacing the timer, although there may be better boards(one that has N.O or N.C connection for relay). I agree with the photocell, there are many projects that use them and it would be easy to integrate that into your setup and would make it basically a touchless system for you. Since you already have the switch and the rest of the parts are cheap we should wire up a buzzer for you. Another thing I would get is a breadboard doesnt really matter where you get it either, this will make it easier for initial hook up and if you want to expand you can test it on the breadboard first. Other than that without digging into the guts I'm not sure what you'll need I have a bunch of capcitors,resistors and that so If you need some I will send them with the relays. When I get back hone tonight I'll try and put some fritzing diagrams together for you.
Here is a photocell
Photocell - http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9088
And it looks like you can use this with just a 10k resistor as voltage divider(Ill help you with this if you need it)
Radio shack has piezo buzzers and if you got one local you can get some of what you'll need there.
 
R

r0m30

Active Member
When you get hooked you can re-work the whole thing so the microprocessor IS the timer with a photo sensor to lengthen the off time when it gets dark :mrgreen:.

You can use a LED instead of a CdS if you already have some. They aren't as precise but for a simple is it dark or light sensor they should work fine.

Have you got a design for the piezo res low alarm? I've been thinking about it and so far all the ideas I have are to messy. I'd like to be able to do it without a relay so you could run the thing on a button battery but so far nada :(
 
R

ranger9mm

Member
Good to see this still chuggin along dude. Got a lot of my parts on order so in time I may be up and running, I'll keep updates on your progress as well.
 
M

Mountain High7

Active Member
Thanks guy for the timer advice. I've been able to find one 422 timer that runs on 12v. The rest are backordered for 8 weeks so it may be awhile before I am set up. I guess the "timer on a timer" solution would be the easiest for me. I have very little knowledge of this kind of electronics, but I will watch and see what you more advanced people come along with. Hopefully if you find something that does work, you could post some sort of mini DIY tutorial.
I was hoping to find some sort of timer that could do everything i need it to do pre-assembled. The closest one i could find was this one:
http://www.g-systems.eu/en/water_timer.html
Only problem is its made in Europe and runs off 230V instead of 12V
The other one I found is:
http://electrodepot.com/a4166.htm
This one is twice the cost of the 422 and I'm not even sure it does what i need it to do (can't figure out if it will set 2 separate on/off times for day and night).
I guess I'll just order the 422 timer and see what i can do with it. I want to set up a veg area on 1 system and a flower on another with a complete set of backup parts in case of emergency or expansion. That means I need 3 of everything to get going. So far I have 3 10 gal accumulators (pexsupply.com), 3 stainless steel adjustable pressure relief valves (ebay), 6 stainless steel liquid filled pressure gauges (ebay), 3 acetal adjustable pressure regulators (Mcmaster.com), 3 8800 series aquatec 12v 160 psi bypass booster pumps with PSW 3100 100 psi pressure switches (preciscioninstallationproducts.com), 3 10" 5 micron canister filters in opaque blue housing with 3 3/8" mini hammer arrestors (filtersfast.com)and 10 1/4" stainless steel solenoid valves (stcvalve.com).
Still need misters (cloudtops w/ cv), timers, and all the JG fittings. At filters fast.com I found these fittings:
http://www.filtersfast.com/P-Liquifit-6540-Fitting-Filter.asp
They look to be just like JG fittings but cheaper. The only thing is they don't have all the different fittings that we need for an aero setup. But they still have enough to save some money on parts, as long as they perform adequately.
I feel like I've changed my design plans so much from when I first started reading Cavadge's thread. But after reading that twice, tree farmers, some of Petflora's journals, other miscellaneous threads, and about 2/3 of this thread, I finally feel I have a semi-permanent design I can start assembling. It's exciting to finally get parts and begin the serious design and development phase of this project. I hope once its all begun, it will be everything I hoped for. Clean, efficient, and the healthiest plants I have ever had the privilege of watching grow.
Can't wait to catch up on this thread and see if there's anything I need to re-learn. Keep up the good work everyone. This is the best active hp aero thread out there. Lets keep it that way.
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Kdn said:
Sure thing TB, its really not that hard and this is a good project to kinda jump into it too. It sounds like you already got the idea down. I can send you a couple relay boards that should have no problem interfacing the timer, although there may be better boards(one that has N.O or N.C connection for relay). I agree with the photocell, there are many projects that use them and it would be easy to integrate that into your setup and would make it basically a touchless system for you. Since you already have the switch and the rest of the parts are cheap we should wire up a buzzer for you. Another thing I would get is a breadboard doesnt really matter where you get it either, this will make it easier for initial hook up and if you want to expand you can test it on the breadboard first. Other than that without digging into the guts I'm not sure what you'll need I have a bunch of capcitors,resistors and that so If you need some I will send them with the relays. When I get back hone tonight I'll try and put some fritzing diagrams together for you.
Here is a photocell
Photocell - http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9088
And it looks like you can use this with just a 10k resistor as voltage divider(Ill help you with this if you need it)
Radio shack has piezo buzzers and if you got one local you can get some of what you'll need there.
Click to expand...
Cool- thanks man... Which arduino is best for my use? And if you can help me understand a tad better what I need, I'd order from mouser asap, cuz I really need a night time timer solution, was about to buy one, but this really is a better, more customizeable, and more fun solution ;)...

And thanks for the kind words Mountain high7- congrats on getting started with the parts list (it's by far the hardest part). One thing I have recently learned, is I will recommend the Bio-controls nozzles if still available- which it seems they are. tree farmer recently explained to me they give better coverage even than nozzles costing over $30/piece, and that becomes quite important once you get running. With the cloud tops- it seems you need to add misters in the middle of the chamber shooting out towards the edges (if the chamber is anything more than 5 gallon buckets), and they clog easier, and then overmisting has to be thought about, etc... So now I'm sold on the biocontrols due to the new knowledge and enlightenment I have gained. My cloud tops misters arrived a couple weeks ago, and I sorta forgot to test them against thge biocontrols. I got two each of every different spec nozzle cloud tops sells, and I also need to review that other timer- so I gotta find some time soon! :)
 
mrflamboynt

mrflamboynt

Member
PetFlora said:
This photo may blow your mind, due to lack of developed roots, but it is not 100% as it appears. The roots have not grown in ~ one month in HPA, so I have been dunking the roots/Sunleaves Super Starter Cubes several times a day in the rez.

Other clones were only recently introduced to the HPA pod, so nothing to show there. In the mean time, my F& D plant continues to fatten up way beyond anything I've done in HPA.

View attachment 1888687View attachment 1888688
Click to expand...
that one looks like she will be ready to harvest in a few weeks (lol).... how does it grow without any roots?
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
mrflamboynt said:
that one looks like she will be ready to harvest in a few weeks (lol).... how does it grow without any roots?
Click to expand...
I know. Right. It has to do with the Super Start Cube staying moist with nutes. And this is only a 8" cola. But it does call into question how important a large root mass is.
 
mrflamboynt

mrflamboynt

Member
oh.... this too.....



random.... i know.... but i had to share... new image to the internet.... its called Arizonan Western Light Purp.... all i can find is a review (with A+ rating)... evidently someone got ahold of this, smoked it, then gave a review... but no other info is currently available.... except that it is BADASS! and lives in Arizona
 
K

Kdn

Member
Trichy Bastard said:
Cool- thanks man... Which arduino is best for my use? And if you can help me understand a tad better what I need, I'd order from mouser asap, cuz I really need a night time timer solution, was about to buy one, but this really is a better, more customizeable, and more fun solution ;)...
Click to expand...
Most likely you'll just need an Uno, but there are many types from many manufacturers. hell even I kinda have a couple now. The main difference between the various ones really comes down to a couple things, are they compact designs, are they reference, or are they specific. Do they have onboard USB, and onboard voltage regulator. Other then that the programming environment treats them all basically the same, and soon we will get ARM core processor support, Ah yeah baby! This is part of what has driven this platform(and a few other like it) to take off like crazy.

Then you'll need a way to interface the power portion of the timer, I have mechanical relay boards and can send you a couple if you want. You can also use SS relays but I cant send you those as I dont have any hehe. Its just a matter of hooking up 3 wires to the arduino and the positive(or load if split phase mains AC) to your load through the relay. Then a photocell, or like device to sense daylight.

Essentially we'll be constantly polling the photocell voltage readings and when the state changes enough for us, we trigger the relay. Its a nice easy project for a starter and it gives you a real use item at the end, instead of the usual light 3 leds up and say "hello world" over serial, indeed a fun one to take on :)

Also what tools do you have on hand? You wont need much more then screw drivers(small PC style kit) wire strippers and some catv cable and a breadboard, although it never hurts to have a good solder iron, etc...

As for the code I can whip up a little something to get you started, its really not bad at all once you start getting the hang of it, especially since the community is huge at this point.

Oh yeah, if there is anything you want fun sparkfun let me know I can pick it up then just ship it with the relay boards if you want me too send those. I assume flat rate usps covers the islands.
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
hammer21 said:
Would really like to see the roots in the plug i`m sure they are nice and white saying this because the plant looks good. The roots outside the plug are suffering from to much water and or nutes or both.
Click to expand...
Hammer: RU referring to my pic? It occurred to me that I had been dunking the roots, which caused them to stick together, which lessened the ability for laterals & hairs to develop. I'm using a spray bottle now. DOH
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Kdn said:
Most likely you'll just need an Uno, but there are many types from many manufacturers. hell even I kinda have a couple now. The main difference between the various ones really comes down to a couple things, are they compact designs, are they reference, or are they specific. Do they have onboard USB, and onboard voltage regulator. Other then that the programming environment treats them all basically the same, and soon we will get ARM core processor support, Ah yeah baby! This is part of what has driven this platform(and a few other like it) to take off like crazy.

Then you'll need a way to interface the power portion of the timer, I have mechanical relay boards and can send you a couple if you want. You can also use SS relays but I cant send you those as I dont have any hehe. Its just a matter of hooking up 3 wires to the arduino and the positive(or load if split phase mains AC) to your load through the relay. Then a photocell, or like device to sense daylight.

Essentially we'll be constantly polling the photocell voltage readings and when the state changes enough for us, we trigger the relay. Its a nice easy project for a starter and it gives you a real use item at the end, instead of the usual light 3 leds up and say "hello world" over serial, indeed a fun one to take on :)

Also what tools do you have on hand? You wont need much more then screw drivers(small PC style kit) wire strippers and some catv cable and a breadboard, although it never hurts to have a good solder iron, etc...

As for the code I can whip up a little something to get you started, its really not bad at all once you start getting the hang of it, especially since the community is huge at this point.

Oh yeah, if there is anything you want fun sparkfun let me know I can pick it up then just ship it with the relay boards if you want me too send those. I assume flat rate usps covers the islands.
Click to expand...
Cool, really appreciate all this... I have a soldering iron, etc- and there's a local radio shack here too. Okay, I'm gonna do some googling, and I'll let you know my plans...
 
mrflamboynt

mrflamboynt

Member
Trichy Bastard said:
To be honest, the tiny amount of rockwool cubes Atomizer mentions is really still mediumless once the roots exit the netpot in a few days. It just acts as a nurturing bufferred environment when the roots are their most delicate and need it. Since my potted clone transfer came in some sort of soil plug, its not ideal. When the soil dries ir becomes hard, whereas the rockwool would remain more soft and spongy. I sometimes wonder if I should still be wetting the plug, but now there are many roots outside of it I figure by leting it dry will coax the roots to keep coming out more, but can't help wondering if the thing getting all hard is tough on the roots until they get bigger.
Click to expand...
so just a small cube of rockwool with a startling in it? using a netpot or no? then do you use a neo-disc? or a foam plug?
 
R

ranger9mm

Member
mrflamboynt said:
so just a small cube of rockwool with a startling in it? using a netpot or no? then do you use a neo-disc? or a foam plug?
Click to expand...
i think he mentioned used chunks of rockwool as apposed to cubes.

Hey TB question for you on your Amtrol tank, what pressure did you charge it to for your system?
 
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