True HP Aero For 2011

Mike Young

Well-Known Member
I got me a widow clone yesterday. Tiny little bastard. Gonna try & keep her as a mommy, and should be able to take some cuts in about 6 weeks. I need to buy a light for my mommy cabinet. Not sure what to get, 175 watt MH or 2' t5 setup. Don't really want to spend much more than 100 bones. If anybody has suggestions, I'd appreciate it.
 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
I got me a widow clone yesterday. Tiny little bastard. Gonna try & keep her as a mommy, and should be able to take some cuts in about 6 weeks. I need to buy a light for my mommy cabinet. Not sure what to get, 175 watt MH or 2' t5 setup. Don't really want to spend much more than 100 bones. If anybody has suggestions, I'd appreciate it.
Congrats Mike! WW is a nice strain indeed. I'm really not the guy to answer, but I would think the t5's could work fine as you probably don't want huge growth anyway, just to keep them in veg, right? I'm probably going to use cfl's myself for that task- at least just to start. Any further experiences to mention with your setup- I am always curious how it's going?
 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Question if anyone has experience with chillers here: I have a JBJ mini artica- I think it's only 1/4hp and really nice unit. The thing is that I noticed when it arrived that the compressor was just hanging by the copper lines when it came because when I picked it up it would just bang around the inside of the chiller. I figured it must have been designed like that, even though it seemed a bit odd. Less than thirty days after using it it started making a weird sound sort of like a muffled skill saw when the compressor came on, and I realized that if I set it on an uneven surface with the back a bit higher than the front it alleviated the sound. All of a sudden this week it's starting to make the noise again even unleveled. Now I'm starting to think it was damaged in shipping and that compressor was supposed to be fastened down some way. Anyone have a clue about this, or even if the 2 things are related?

Sorry things have been slow going. I've had a few things come up this month that caused me to run low on cash for the last few things I needed to get this thing built among other setbacks. But I think very soon I should get rockin and rollin again- I'm definitely getting antsy now that almost everything is here staring me in the face. :mrgreen:
 

Atomizer

Well-Known Member
I would have expected the compressor to be mounted on rubber bushes, the spec reckons 39db so it should be quieter than a domestic fridge. Hanging the compressor by the pipework sounds dodgy as the compressor will tend to jump around when it starts/stops, the shuddering will eventually fatigue rigid pipework. Its worth taking a peek inside to check if the compressor mounting method is as it was intended...anything broken will be pretty obvious ;) .
 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
I would have expected the compressor to be mounted on rubber bushes, the spec reckons 39db so it should be quieter than a domestic fridge. Hanging the compressor by the pipework sounds dodgy as the compressor will tend to jump around when it starts/stops, the shuddering will eventually fatigue rigid pipework. Its worth taking a peek inside to check if the compressor mounting method is as it was intended...anything broken will be pretty obvious ;) .
I think you're right- it's just common sense. When it's running properly it's virtually silent. I am very happy with it's operation otherwise than the once in a while noise. Hopefuly I can just trade it in under warranty, but the darn shipping will probably be outrageous. Perhaps I'll just strap it down myself and hope it hasn't aged anything prematurely.
 

hempyftw

Member
[FONT=&quot]I could kill RIU for what it just did to me. I had written a book out for my first post here on your thread. Trying to edit it I used the backspace and my browser went back a page. On some forums you can just hit forward and your work will still be there. Not that time though! BHB. Attempt #2[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I really appreciate the thread you’ve put together here Trichy. I similar to you started by reading the threads and posts from forget the fogger, Plug and play pods, atomix gj’s, Fatman, Tree grower, Cav, etc… I’ve taken the time to read them in depth and absorb all the info. That means EVERY page. Even the linked studies/suggested reading. I know most of what you’ve done is just condensing and describing your build as you go. However I can’t thank you and those who came before you enough for documenting/researching so much.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Anyone who hasn’t started from page 1 on those threads and read each all the way through to its entirety is really missing out. I know you’ll have to put up with some peoples egos and sometimes silly arguments however; I wouldn’t contemplate trying a HPA system without doing that back work. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I will be joining you TB in the relentless search for those very fine white hair roots. I will not stop until they fill my pods! I was in the process of pulling the trigger on my supposed “dream room” custom ebb/grow table system. I’m glad it took me so long to finally decide on the specifics. It delayed me enough to discover the world of HPA. Can’t wait to compare my usual ebb/grow results to HPA. I’ve been growing the same strain in the same system for 6+ harvests. I’ll have a great comparison in the differences. Efficiency, here I come! [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Seems like the best two methods for obtaining root hairs DIY at this point is either the AA system or demand pump + accumulator. I think I’m more interested in heading towards a high pressure pump and accumulator, probably in the 150-250 psi range. My only concern with that is the warnings I’ve read about with precipitates more likely to form at higher pressures. PV=NRT or something like that, right??? I was steered away from the AA system based on my previous experience with loud ass air compressors. I know I know someone will chime in that oiless dental compressor XYZ is probably silent, but I’m the kind of guy where if I didn’t see it, it didn’t happen. So I would be curious to hear from people who have run a system similar to yours at around 130+ up to around 250 or so. Seems like filters will help with this, just don’t want to see it be a huge issue. I like the extra pressure for head room in case of electrical/equipment failure. And I imagine that will help keep a constant 80-120 psi running pressure after accumulator. It will also allow for expansion down the road.[/FONT]

I was planning on adapting HPA to a SOG perpetual harvest system I’m familiar with and go directly from rooted clone to 12/12 as I do now. I’m debating a starting chamber/pod size for a 1000 watt hps. For a starting point I was thinking 6’Lx4’Wx3’D. That gives me 72 (cubic feet) = 2,038.8 liters or about 3 cubic feet/ 85L per plant if I put 24 in the pod. 1 sq foot in the lid and 3 feet down for each plant. Assuming once I get it dialed in, if I can obtain an oz a plant I will have tied one of my best harvests in ebb and flow to date (G/W it least).

I had typed up quite a bit more in the original post. This is probably enough torture for everyone’s eyes for now though. Again I really appreciate you documenting your research and build. Thanks to everyone who has paved the way in HPA. If anyone could drop some insight about the precipitates at high psi and a good starting chamber size that would be great. I will probably do a private build journal of my system for some who are interested. I’ve run some private GJ’s on other sites.

I’ll leave your with a couple pics of my last harvest. Space bomb by TGA SUBCOOL at 8 weeks. Gotta put something interesting right?

IMG_20110403_221733.jpgIMG_20110403_221652.jpg

 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Hey hempyftw! Cool man, you sound like a person after my own logic. I agree and have even re-read some of these threads in their entirety, including all the links mentioned... I hate the backspace key issue with a passion, especially since I can ramble on quite bit at times and it's not nearly as fun the second time. You could use another browser than ie and not have that problem btw ( I beg them to put in an option to disable the backspace- back function- I never use it anyway!!!) I don't know enough about the higher pressures, but you can obtain a larger accumulator for not too much cash nowadays (the link I list for my tank has a 30 gallon for 200 bucks or so). I still think most of the nozzles we use seem to work best at 100 psi or so, so the only reason you need to go for higher pressures is more backup pressure in conjunction with a pressure regulator (like you said). I think one day we might go for an AA setup- I was recently privelaged to a sound clip from one with talking over it that made me think it was about as quiet as an older refrigerator compressor). I still think it's better to start with hydraulic though, and master that. The parts we use for this will all be useable/necessary for AA anyway.

Very nice pics man- thanks for that... I hope we both soon have respectable root hairs to speak of, and look forward to you being a part of the thread here- Wow A real live hpa thread- imagine that after all those old dead ones- haha
 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Life seems to really be throwing me curveballs lately but for once there was a better outome- 2 days ago my pc would not boot - it would not even pass post and beep or show anything onscreen before going into an endless restart loop(I built my own and its a real nice setup and I was surprised as its only a year old or so). I did every concievable troubleshoot including reseating the processor 2 times to no avail. I already got a rma started on my mobo after verifying with ohm meter that my power supply wasn't the culprit. I don't know what posessed me, but I took out the processor on more time this afternoon and wiped it with my shirt and used canned air on the seat (everything I read says to never physically touch these parts btw), and viola- it booted right up again! I needed that small miracle- another mobo to fit all my components was in the 300$ range, and I really am already short on cash for my hpa anyway... -Sigh of relief!
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
ftw: (is that wtf backwards?) From my own observations having placed my plants to close to the side walls... this acts as a barrier against the swirling mist. Ditto the space between each row. I recommend 3 rows. I think 4 would be pushing it..

 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
ftw: (is that wtf backwards?) From my own observations having placed my plants to close to the side walls... this acts as a barrier against the swirling mist. Ditto the space between each row. I recommend 3 rows. I think 4 would be pushing it..
Without my own personal experience to draw from, I think PF might be correct here. If you overcrowd the chamber and have the plants too close to the sides it may run into issues where some plants don't get proper mist coverage. Again, I have no experience to back this up, but just a guess. I plan on running about 8 sites @ 12/12 from clone in a nearly identical chamber size. I'm hoping the added space and efficiency of hpa will fill them in nicely. I also am using real sunlight though, and expect that to be a benefit. I really look forward to your comments in comparing this method to your previous one.
 

hempyftw

Member
[FONT=&quot]I did it again with my second post. I might just have to look into changing browsers (use FF but same problem anywho). I’m going to write my posts up in Mword first, from now on. Try and go back a page I dare you![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Good point on the easy switch out between pump + accumulator to AA. Just need a nice quiet compressor (got that link?/model #?/ and or price?), nozzles, couple new lines, anything else big required for the change? I have heard of quiet air compressors, just never witnessed one. I’ve heard many compressors in my time and none of them pass as quiet to me. I have never gotten to hear one of these probably pricier and silent dental air compressors and such. Must admit as I have heard people say they exist. I’ll do some research on that. Probably be nice to go High PSI in that application as well just for the head room again. I’m not that concerned about the price to be honest. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
I had calculated my last “dream room” out to around 7k-8k with startup and mortgage/utilities for first 3 months. My last estimate on a similar room on A+P HPA style was around 9k-11k, lots of options. That doesn’t include the 35k down payment, but I digress. What is 1k-3k to be able to convert to a fraction of a second HP ~50µ, NASA approved system? Can only imagine the system will quickly pay for the small difference. I mean running drain to waste, instead of dumping my multiple 50+ gal tanks when I change up my nute sauce. Not to mention any possible g/w difference. I’m a DIY as well so that price difference is likely to come down. Already been crawling CL for odds and ends. And my last money saving difference, I’m about to run out of my precious HGB until next harvest in 3 weeks. Was asking around for a similar quality in my area, and was quoted 240 for a half OZ. That’s like fucking robbery man. Didn’t know it was that bad out there, always have my own. Always let my close friends take a ½ off me for 120. Surprised none of them are trying to sell that shit lol. Just no supply to be heard of, unless you like breaking apart bricks of schwag. Oh I bought that sack too for 240. I hate harvesting early.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Bummer and than 360 to awesomeness on the comp man. Blowing on electronics has worked since the dawn of electronics for me. All started with those damn Nintendo cartridges for me. Then super Nintendo, n64, etc… If that doesn’t work you can always go with the more technical approach of the reverse drop theory. I like to build pc’s as well. Upgraded my i5 to i7, once the Sandy bridge recall was over. Wish I would have had the foresight a year ago to get the 3d version of my plasma. I now have way more gaming/HTPC then TV. 8g ram, 2 GTX 460’s for 2GB GDDR5. I hate it when there is seating issues in components or something when you go to turn on PC on for the first time. Had to go as far as flashing some new 3rd party homebrew/firmware to get two components to get along with each other one time. Made me look like a tool too, since I was building it for a friend.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]PetFlora forgive me as I forgot to give thanks to you as well, in my first post. I’ve read many of your posts as well and am glad you have been able to dial in your system[/FONT]:leaf:[FONT=&quot]. I appreciate all the knowledge I’ve learned from what you’ve shared. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
FTW is For The Win. I started out as a hempy grower. That got old when I had to water almost daily in late flowering. So now I like to think of it as Hemp For The Win. Or you can call me Hempy and I am for the win haha. Thanks for the heads up, that’s exactly why I wanted to post the idea before I got build crazy. I think I’ll go with that and start with a row of 3 for the first run. Although it might all depend once I get to play around with the pod and a couple sprayers when the system is set up. I’ll wait to cut any holes! I plan on making my pod out of weather treated 2”x4”s then insulation and such covered by pond liner. Maybe a plexiglass lid if I’m feeling crazy. I guess if I’m really feeling crazy I could just fiberglass the whole thing. I’ve made some custom subwoofer enclosures out of the stuff before. Sure I could make a big old pod. (Did a quick search on that, says pools lined with fiberglass don’t leach any chemicals. Will look more into that)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Another thing I was thinking about depending on sprayers and such. I might like to divide the chamber up into quadrants or something with a very fine mesh that will hopefully be breathable but keep the roots somewhat separate where they get their own sprayer/environment. Again it will all depend on the sprayers and solenoid/timer setup.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
I’m thinking this method will fit well with high number SOG though. They say that the internode spacing is closer and they don’t stretch as much. I would think that could translate to a very dense high quantity single cola canopy. I’ll have to see how horizontal the root structures tend to grow when putting 8”-12” freshly rooted clones in for 12/12. Thanks again guys for the heads up! Might just save me in my quest for those beautiful hairy roots. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Didn’t get to work this in anyway… But I’m totally jealous you get to use the sun TB. Would be more ideal if you had a greenhouse, but either way, I’m sure you’ll be able to get awesome results.[/FONT]
 

Atomizer

Well-Known Member
Just need a nice quiet compressor (got that link?/model #?/ and or price?), nozzles, couple new lines, anything else big required for the change? I have heard of quiet air compressors, just never witnessed one. I’ve heard many compressors in my time and none of them pass as quiet to me. I have never gotten to hear one of these probably pricier and silent dental air compressors and such. Must admit as I have heard people say they exist. I’ll do some research on that. Probably be nice to go High PSI in that application as well just for the head room again. I’m not that concerned about the price to be honest.
If it helps, a good silent compressor is probably about as loud as a big chest freezer when its running. To give you an idea of price, the compressor in the link below would handle 2 nozzles.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Bambi-Air-Compressor-75-250-/160579782238?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25634d065e
 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Ahh yes, the fond memories of blowing on my coleco vision, atari, and nintendo cartridges- lol

I'll make a suggestion rooted only in common sense and what I consider good advice that was also given to me- go with the hydraulic first and get that down good before "graduating to atomised"... Also I would consider doing a smaller/cheaper setup at first before dedicating and entire room and so much money so you have the experience to decide how to properly set it up and know how it really works. I assume it's better results, but don't know if it's going to double your yields or anything like that. Not that you implied such things, but I just felt like making the comment. I'm glad you guys are here keeping the thread alive, I have had a few unexpected monetary hits this month, and it's really slowing my progress... :( Lucky the pc is not yet another one!!!
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Hempy: Thanks for the props! I'd like to think I had something to do with re-energizing HPA in general, though some have been doing it before me, but just didn't put up a thread/journal.

My very first attempt at growing was 1980. I bought a F/D system and had a 1000w metal halide. It grew plants so huge the fan leaves were bigger than m two hands side-by-side and spread apart. Divorce shut it down and I never really got back into it for over 20 years.

I have had the same issues as you of a long post disappearing. I do them in word, then cut/paste.

As to inside your pod. What you see when you test is not what you will see once you have multiple plants each with significant root mass. I start in a much smaller system then transfer after culling the runts, males... Also anything inside the pod will become a barrier for the fine mist: mesh is likely to have an electronic charge that attracts the mist too. The pod should be as free-flowing as possible.

hth
 

rosecitypapa

Active Member
With the latest heat wave traveling across the states; I have an outdoor rdwc and somehow even when it's scorching hot there is peace of mind knowing that the plants have as much water as they can slurp.

How does hpa perform in an outdoor environment when there is a daily high raising the plants transpiration rate? Will they wilt?
 
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