Trichomes & Harvesting

toronjadeoro

toronjadeoro

Well-Known Member
Okay, I found some new insight regarding the apparently 3 different types of trichomes: capitate-stalked trichomes, bulbous trichomes & capitate-sessile trichomes. According to the article to which I credit a fellow of the moniker "Elephantman" at marijuanapassion.com, this is how each is defined:

"Bulbous:
The bulbous type is the smallest (15-30 micron). From one to four cells make up the "foot" and "stalk," and one to four cells make up the "head" of the gland. Head cells secrete a resin - presumably cannabinoids, and related compounds which accumulate between the head cells and the cuticle. When the gland matures, a nipple-like protrusion may form on the membrane from the pressure of the accumulating resin. The bulbous glands are found scattered about the surfaces of the above-ground plant parts.

Capitate-Sessile:
The second type of gland is much larger & is more numerous than the bulbous glands. They are called capitate, which means having a globular-shaped head. On immature plants, the heads lie flush, appearing not to have a stalk and are called capitate sessile. They actually have a stalk that is one cell high, although it may not be visible beneath the globular head. The head is composed of usually eight, but up to 16 cells, that form a convex rosette. These cells secrete cannabinoids, and related compounds which accumulate between the rosette and it's outer membrane. This gives it a spherical shape. The gland measures from 25 to 100 micron across.

Capitate-Stalked:
Cannabinoids are most abundant in the capitate-stalked gland which consists of a tier of secretory disc cells subtending a large non-cellular secretory cavity. During flowering the capitate glands that appear on the newly formed plant parts take on a third form. Some of the glands are raised to a height of 150 to 500 micron when their stalks elongate. These capitate-stalked glands appear during flowering and form their densest cover on the female flower bracts. They are also highly concentrated on the small leaves that accompany the flowers. The male flowers have stalked glands on the sepals, but they are smaller and less concentrated than on the female bracts. Male flowers form a row of very large capitate glands along the opposite sides of anthers." (end of citation)

So, since cannabinoids are most abundant in the capitate-stalked glands, maybe it is to these which I should be paying most close attention for determining ideal trichome color distribution? The 10% amber I've seen on mine on the "lower, longer" leaves along the bud (how about that for eloquence?) I believe are the bulbous type trichomes; they appear to lie flat on the leaf. The article did not mention anything about which trichomes form first, so that may be a contributing factor as well.

I thought this was very interesting information and thought it might help us arrive at the answer I'm still looking for. Here's the link to the full article if any are interested:

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1938

Thanks again in advance, K0ijn!
 
k0ijn

k0ijn

Scientia Cannabis
toronjadeoro said:
Okay, I found some new insight regarding the apparently 3 different types of trichomes: capitate-stalked trichomes, bulbous trichomes & capitate-sessile trichomes. According to the article to which I credit a fellow of the moniker "Elephantman" at marijuanapassion.com, this is how each is defined:

"Bulbous:
The bulbous type is the smallest (15-30 micron). From one to four cells make up the "foot" and "stalk," and one to four cells make up the "head" of the gland. Head cells secrete a resin - presumably cannabinoids, and related compounds which accumulate between the head cells and the cuticle. When the gland matures, a nipple-like protrusion may form on the membrane from the pressure of the accumulating resin. The bulbous glands are found scattered about the surfaces of the above-ground plant parts.

Capitate-Sessile:
The second type of gland is much larger & is more numerous than the bulbous glands. They are called capitate, which means having a globular-shaped head. On immature plants, the heads lie flush, appearing not to have a stalk and are called capitate sessile. They actually have a stalk that is one cell high, although it may not be visible beneath the globular head. The head is composed of usually eight, but up to 16 cells, that form a convex rosette. These cells secrete cannabinoids, and related compounds which accumulate between the rosette and it's outer membrane. This gives it a spherical shape. The gland measures from 25 to 100 micron across.

Capitate-Stalked:
Cannabinoids are most abundant in the capitate-stalked gland which consists of a tier of secretory disc cells subtending a large non-cellular secretory cavity. During flowering the capitate glands that appear on the newly formed plant parts take on a third form. Some of the glands are raised to a height of 150 to 500 micron when their stalks elongate. These capitate-stalked glands appear during flowering and form their densest cover on the female flower bracts. They are also highly concentrated on the small leaves that accompany the flowers. The male flowers have stalked glands on the sepals, but they are smaller and less concentrated than on the female bracts. Male flowers form a row of very large capitate glands along the opposite sides of anthers." (end of citation)

So, since cannabinoids are most abundant in the capitate-stalked glands, maybe it is to these which I should be paying most close attention for determining ideal trichome color distribution? The 10% amber I've seen on mine on the "lower, longer" leaves along the bud (how about that for eloquence?) I believe are the bulbous type trichomes; they appear to lie flat on the leaf. The article did not mention anything about which trichomes form first, so that may be a contributing factor as well.

I thought this was very interesting information and thought it might help us arrive at the answer I'm still looking for. Here's the link to the full article if any are interested:

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1938

Thanks again in advance, K0ijn!
Click to expand...

I don't see any references or sources listed by the author.
I'm not sure where he got the information from.

And he posted this: http://www.marijuanapassion.com/foru...4&d=1190805159 at the bottom of the post, which is an outdated and factually incorrect image.
So if the author can believe CBN is responsible for the couch-lock high (and not know that it's in fact phenotypes which determine this) he cannot be very scientifically acurate or knowledable in a credible way.

I'm sure some of the information is credible, but without sources or references it's hard to believe in it.


What I do know about the particular trichomes listed is that capitate-stalked trichomes are by far the most common trichomes during flowering.
I'll look into it and see if I can find some scientific sources, we need credible sources before we take anything as fact, at least in my thread.
 
k0ijn

k0ijn

Scientia Cannabis
toronjadeoro said:
Great. I appreciate your skepticism, and will wait patiently.
Click to expand...
It's hard to judge when it doesn't have any references or sources.

The stuff about the different evolutions in trichomes sounds correct.
From what I could tell it's a passage from a book (a book I've used many times in University).
I think it's from K. Esau's Plant Anatomy from 1965 (checked on google, the original 2nd edition is from '65, I couldn't remember).
It's a plant structual biology textbook.


But some of the other information posted is just old propaganda.
But that might be because the thread was started in 2006 (the one on marijuanapassion).

All in all the information is outdated, except for Katherines fine work on trichomes which has been known since 1965 and appears to have been directly stolen by whomever authored those posts on the forum with zero reference to her.
She is one of the most famous plant anatomists who has ever lived.
 
toronjadeoro

toronjadeoro

Well-Known Member
Thanks for your diligence, K0ijn. I'm going to look for that book to try to learn more. In the meantime, what do you think about my original question?

If I'm going to harvest individual bud sites as each becomes ready, should I be taking more into account the trichome color distribution of the tiny "sugar leaves" where there is a larger concentration of trichomes (in my case 85% cloudy/15% clear), or do I need to be taking into account the trichome distribution on the larger leaves sprouting down along the shaft of the bud where there is a smaller concentration of trichomes (in some cases the distribution is about 10% amber 85% cloudy and 5% clear)? Or perhaps I need to combine the two readings, take an average and then decide when to harvest?

Thanks again!
 
k0ijn

k0ijn

Scientia Cannabis
toronjadeoro said:
Thanks for your diligence, K0ijn. I'm going to look for that book to try to learn more. In the meantime, what do you think about my original question?

If I'm going to harvest individual bud sites as each becomes ready, should I be taking more into account the trichome color distribution of the tiny "sugar leaves" where there is a larger concentration of trichomes (in my case 85% cloudy/15% clear), or do I need to be taking into account the trichome distribution on the larger leaves sprouting down along the shaft of the bud where there is a smaller concentration of trichomes (in some cases the distribution is about 10% amber 85% cloudy and 5% clear)? Or perhaps I need to combine the two readings, take an average and then decide when to harvest?

Thanks again!
Click to expand...

Right, I completely forgot that while looking for the answer to the stuff about trichomes ^^
I think the book is available online in pdf form.
If not, you can get it from any serious bookstore, it's a book which is still being used to this day and has been used for the past 40+ years in Universities around the globe.

If it's your first time growing I'd not bother with tryint to harvest too many individual calyx sections.

But to answer you question I'd take into account the entire plant, from old growth to new growth.
You need to get a full picture of how the trichomes are developing.
Probably best to combine readings and then make an informed decision :weed:
 
toronjadeoro

toronjadeoro

Well-Known Member
Sounds good. Thanks again for the analysis and the info on the book! Will try to post some results of the harvest after drying/curing as this is a curious case of a sativa seeming to mature extremely quickly (though it does have about 25% indica in the mix). Cheers.
 
k0ijn

k0ijn

Scientia Cannabis
toronjadeoro said:
Sounds good. Thanks again for the analysis and the info on the book! Will try to post some results of the harvest after drying/curing as this is a curious case of a sativa seeming to mature extremely quickly (though it does have about 25% indica in the mix). Cheers.
Click to expand...
No problem.
Sativas generally have a wider window of harvest than Indicas but if it is getting close just remember than the trichomes will continue to develop (and degrade) after harvesting.
So don't cut it too late :weed:
 
abuilder

abuilder

Well-Known Member
OK..quick question...My four Barney's plants (LSD & Violater Kush) are in day NINTY of flower..WTF?? Hardly any amber tichs. Most all the trichs are very cloudy but no amber? Will it EVER get any amber trichs or is this it? I mean it's been three full months in flower already. I think they started to foxtail a cpl of weeks ago when my inline fan blew and I had to use just a booster fan in it's place. The temps reached around 83-85 deg for about a week during the day until I devised a plan that brought the temp down to around 80ish. Not sure if that stopped their progress or not but 90 days in flower? Any suggestions? Think I should just chop em'..or what?

Photos are from this past Thursday night..
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LeafGnosis

LeafGnosis

Active Member
Great thread!!! will definitely use this in a couple of weeks when I will start looking at trichs. My only plant is of bag seed so I have NO clue on what average flowering time is. I do know that I am in week 4 to 5 so I am thinking about at least 3 more weeks to start checking.. and a quick question.. going to be using the fox trio and the schedule.. though I think that they just want you to use more and more of their products :) specially when it says to flush between veg nutes and flowering nutes... I will have to see what transition I should give them rather than flushing. Did not want to spend more money of flush liquid anyway. May I get input on that aspect please K0ijn?
 
k0ijn

k0ijn

Scientia Cannabis
abuilder said:
OK..quick question...My four Barney's plants (LSD & Violater Kush) are in day NINTY of flower..WTF?? Hardly any amber tichs. Most all the trichs are very cloudy but no amber? Will it EVER get any amber trichs or is this it? I mean it's been three full months in flower already. I think they started to foxtail a cpl of weeks ago when my inline fan blew and I had to use just a booster fan in it's place. The temps reached around 83-85 deg for about a week during the day until I devised a plan that brought the temp down to around 80ish. Not sure if that stopped their progress or not but 90 days in flower? Any suggestions? Think I should just chop em'..or what?

Photos are from this past Thursday night..
Click to expand...

The flowering periods you get told to follow by the companies are not always on the money.
I've had an 8 week strain go to 11 weeks without problems (no high number of amber trichs or anything).
I've also had a 12 week strain be ready in 10 & 1/2 weeks.

You can just follow their guidelines unquestionably.
You need to follow your plants and what they tell you.

Some genetics are just superior to others and it seems like you've got a very Sativa dominant plant which is exceeding your expectations.
I would let the plant flower as much as it wants, if you aren't seeing any problems (like foxtailing you mentioned or a breakdown of trichomes) then by all means let the plant swell up and continue to gain weight, in the end it's all the better for you.

Judging by looks some of you top colas seem to be very near ready, perhaps it's just the lighting or the camera doing trichs but they seem to have an orangy tinge about them.
Especially picture 2, 4, 5 and 7.
Just make sure you keep a good eye on them so you aren't going in your room one day and the amber trichomes have taken over.
Sometimes it can sneak up on you.

But tbh your plants look good, I wouldn't be worried at all.
 
k0ijn

k0ijn

Scientia Cannabis
LeafGnosis said:
Great thread!!! will definitely use this in a couple of weeks when I will start looking at trichs. My only plant is of bag seed so I have NO clue on what average flowering time is. I do know that I am in week 4 to 5 so I am thinking about at least 3 more weeks to start checking.. and a quick question.. going to be using the fox trio and the schedule.. though I think that they just want you to use more and more of their products :) specially when it says to flush between veg nutes and flowering nutes... I will have to see what transition I should give them rather than flushing. Did not want to spend more money of flush liquid anyway. May I get input on that aspect please K0ijn?
Click to expand...
Good to hear you find the information helpfulp.
First of all I need some more info to give you a pertinent answer.

Are you growing in soil or hydro?
And what system are you using within those two categories?

In soil it can be very useful to flush the soil (not pre-harvest, but flush in general).
Because salts can build up in the soil and affect the way your plant grows.
It's recommended to flush soil every 2-4 weeks depending on the nutrient levels you use and your equipment.
Soil tends to hold on to the minerals and salts and needs cleaning and attending much more so than a proper hydro setup does.

If you are growing hydro there really is no need for it.
Unless you are trying to correct an error (wrong pH, unbalanced nutrient solution etc.).
But you should still change water every 4-8 weeks (depending on how good your setup is, vulnerability to root slime and the like) or so just to keep the environment fresh and balanced.
It is possible to grow out the plants without changing the water but in small reservoirs and in places affected/vulnerable to/by root slime or any other kind of problem its best to keep the environment fresh and clean.

Regarding pre-harvest there is no need to do anything, whether soil or hydro (assuming you haven't let the solution stand there for 8 weeks without changing the water).
 
firsttimeARE

firsttimeARE

Well-Known Member
Hey K0ijin,

Going on week 8, I have this G13 Genetics Pineapple Express thats an 8-9 week, her pistils aren't receded but all her pistils are orange and shriveled, trichomes are mostly cloudy. She's been sitting this way for the past week and her pistils still won't recede.

Just let it go longer? I'll get some pictures up.

DSC04338.jpgDSC04337.jpgDSC04339.jpg

I think she already hit her swelling point and the buds just look tiny because of a P def. from too high of PH. Stopped giving it nutes 9 days ago when she started to look ready. Trichs are clear/cloudy/amber like 15%/83%/2%

This is another seed of same strain that is apparently of the fatter pheno and it's pistils despite being orange less time have already begun to recede.

DSC04347.jpgDSC04344.jpg
 
k0ijn

k0ijn

Scientia Cannabis
firsttimeARE said:
Hey K0ijin,

Going on week 8, I have this G13 Genetics Pineapple Express thats an 8-9 week, her pistils aren't receded but all her pistils are orange and shriveled, trichomes are mostly cloudy. She's been sitting this way for the past week and her pistils still won't recede.

Just let it go longer? I'll get some pictures up.
Click to expand...
Are there any amber trichomes?
How about the calyxes, have they swelled up?

I'll wait for the pictures before I give you my advice :weed:
 
k0ijn

k0ijn

Scientia Cannabis
firsttimeARE said:
Hey K0ijin,

Going on week 8, I have this G13 Genetics Pineapple Express thats an 8-9 week, her pistils aren't receded but all her pistils are orange and shriveled, trichomes are mostly cloudy. She's been sitting this way for the past week and her pistils still won't recede.

Just let it go longer? I'll get some pictures up.

View attachment 2409374View attachment 2409373View attachment 2409375

I think she already hit her swelling point and the buds just look tiny because of a P def. from too high of PH. Stopped giving it nutes 9 days ago when she started to look ready. Trichs are clear/cloudy/amber like 15%/83%/2%

This is another seed of same strain that is apparently of the fatter pheno and it's pistils despite being orange less time have already begun to recede.

View attachment 2409378View attachment 2409377
Click to expand...

You should not have stopped feeding.
That'll cause a deficiency and lower the productivity of your plant(s).

I would let it go for another week or so, with nutrients.
Depending on how the plant reacts and how it already has reacted to the lack of nutrients.
 
firsttimeARE

firsttimeARE

Well-Known Member
k0ijn said:
You should not have stopped feeding.
That'll cause a deficiency and lower the productivity of your plant(s).

I would let it go for another week or so, with nutrients.
Depending on how the plant reacts and how it already has reacted to the lack of nutrients.
Click to expand...
I always thought the last week you just go without nutes as the plant doesn't really grow too much and because of taste and burn(the old flushing myth that I subscribed to). Although i'm stabbing this myth in the neck. I only let a branch go 2 days with just water and another only 5 days. Well having smoked them both, I can say the 5 day flushed plant matter burned no different than the 2 day flushed plant matter. In a few more days I can test how good the 7 day flushed buds turned out.

This is only my 2nd grow so i'm still sorting out what myths are accurate. I know some people don't feed last week not because of taste but because they feel its a waste of nutrients as a plant doesn't pack on much weight during the last week.

I know you, and other seasoned growers, don't buy into the flushing idea. But some other seasoned growers do and their buds come out good, so I was trying to form an opinion of my own. There is so many different ideas and opinions and facts and myths that it's hard for a new grower to figure out what is real and what isn't. It is my assumption that the cannabis plant can handle some extreme conditions and just because you grew buds, doesn't mean it was the correct or ideal way, but the output of buds regardless confuses the line of myth and truth. It is only when you dig deep and figure out myth from truth for yourself can you grow as a grower and get to that optimum level.

So do you reduce feeding at all during end of harvest? I've seen other growers recommend starting low EC(1.0) in flower and working up high(1.5EC) and then back low towards the last week or two.
 
k0ijn

k0ijn

Scientia Cannabis
firsttimeARE said:
I always thought the last week you just go without nutes as the plant doesn't really grow too much and because of taste and burn(the old flushing myth that I subscribed to). Although i'm stabbing this myth in the neck. I only let a branch go 2 days with just water and another only 5 days. Well having smoked them both, I can say the 5 day flushed plant matter burned no different than the 2 day flushed plant matter. In a few more days I can test how good the 7 day flushed buds turned out.
Click to expand...
The last week(s) of the plants life are the most crucial parts of the plants life, in terms of productivity (new growth, trichomes etc) & weight gain.
Nutrients are not stored in the calyxes. There is no evidence for non pre-harvest flushed weed tasting/burning/looking worse than pre-harvest flushed.
So it's without warrant to think it will improve taste, burn, high or whatever people might claim, if you pre-harvest flush.

However that is not to say you can't do whatever you want, it's your plants.
I can't stop you from seasoning your meat after you've cooked it either, but there's a reason why every professional chef and knowledgeable cook season meat before cooking it.
Anyway, that was a tangent.


firsttimeARE said:
This is only my 2nd grow so i'm still sorting out what myths are accurate. I know some people don't feed last week not because of taste but because they feel its a waste of nutrients as a plant doesn't pack on much weight during the last week.
Click to expand...
Well that is incorrect. The final weeks are the most important weeks in the plants growing life.
It's in the final weeks the plants calyxes swell up and most trichomes have reached a cloudy state.
End flowering is peak productivity.


firsttimeARE said:
I know you, and other seasoned growers, don't buy into the flushing idea. But some other seasoned growers do and their buds come out good, so I was trying to form an opinion of my own. There is so many different ideas and opinions and facts and myths that it's hard for a new grower to figure out what is real and what isn't. It is my assumption that the cannabis plant can handle some extreme conditions and just because you grew buds, doesn't mean it was the correct or ideal way, but the output of buds regardless confuses the line of myth and truth. It is only when you dig deep and figure out myth from truth for yourself can you grow as a grower and get to that optimum level.
Click to expand...
The burden of proof falls on the one who makes the claim, not on those who refuse to believe it without evidence.
It's not that we don't buy into it, it's that there is no proof of it working.
Unlike the tons of scientific evidence there is for the many processes and methods we use for growing in general.

I know there is a lot of crap posted on the internet.
Probably around 90% of what is written about cannabis on the net is false.
Nearly 99% of it is posted without references.

Which is why I always reference and quote scientific publications and books, so that people can see my workings.
What I write is not my opinion, it's scientific fact.

I'd never try to cram my opinion down the throat of anyone, that won't help me or them.
Always trust evidence and facts over opinion.


firsttimeARE said:
So do you reduce feeding at all during end of harvest? I've seen other growers recommend starting low EC(1.0) in flower and working up high(1.5EC) and then back low towards the last week or two.
Click to expand...
No I don't reduce feeding at all, in fact my feeding schedule climbs towards harvesting.
I start off with low PPM levels and end up with high PPM levels.
I don't follow a particular formula, I always go by what the plants tell me.

I see no reason why I should lower the amount of 'food' I give my plant at the stage of it's life when it needs the most food.
A plant requires most nutrient at the end of it's flowering period and to remove the nutrients is equivalent of starving the plant.
And that is the result people get, you get a deficiency.
This deficiency reduces productivity, the plant starts to consume itself to stay alive, new growth is stunted and you are reducing the potential of the plant.

You can do whatever you want but the advice I give out is purely scientifically based, you can choose to follow that or you can go with personal opinion that is your prerogative.
 
aurora stardust

aurora stardust

Member
Hello everyone and k0ijn!

I am a first time grower and would love to hear from you on how ready my baby is.

First, some information about my girl. Grew her from seed in mid August. Fed on nothing but pure sunshine, rain, organics, and love, here in the tropics. Early October she showed pre-flowers, and about two weeks later, she started to bloom. The monsoon season started at around the same time, but she seems to be doing fantastically in the heavy rainstorms. It's been a month since. She's now 3.5-4 feet tall (counting from where she exits the soil, not from where the pot sits on the ground). She's from Ceres Seeds, the John Sinclair Sativa 'Trans-Love'.

Info from their website:

- Breed: (Sativa x Indica) x Sativa
- Flowering: 70-75 days
- Yield: 0.9-1.1 gram per Watt of light

I am growing outdoors, so i'm not sure how these numbers apply, but they're here just in case they can help.

For an apparently Sativa dominant strain, she's not that tall. I've noticed that she started growing with what looks to me like more Indica dominant leaves, but since she started flowering, the newer blades are now lanky.

I've read every single post on this thread, which is the first time i've ever done that on any forum! A big thank you k0ijn for dispelling some myths and providing some very wonderful insights. Before this thread, it was all about trichs. Now, at least i know about the swelling of calyxes and retraction of pistils.

My girl doesn't look ready yet. She's much too skinny, the calyxes aren't fully swollen, and there's only very minor retraction of pistils. The trichomes however, seem to be telling a different story. Overall, it seems, to my novice eye, that it's mostly cloudy with very little clear, and even less amber. I do think that some of the amber looking ones aren't true amber, but reflections on a cloudy or clear trich. Reflections of the sun's rays, maybe? And a few rare ones even look like they've gone past amber. Could that be due to injury, rather than maturity? On a few flowers though, there are quite a number of ambers already. She's only been flowering for a month.

I'd like to get a second opinion on my observations and will provide as many photos as possible for this process.

Thank you all in advance!


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beuffer420

beuffer420

Well-Known Member
Flushing is no myth my son! Your plant stores nutes as it grows, it is real important to purge these buildups out of your ladies so your not smoking it. While it may seem the same as 2 days to 5 once it's all the way dry and cured your gonna notice it. plus it's not healthy for u. Flushing is a purging process, I used to flush insane amounts of water through my pots until I found I wasn't purging at all but soaking the main stalk wterlogging u can call and actually making it harder for the plant to take up the water for the purge. So now my flushes consist of a gallon and a half of water a nite for two weeks instead of running 10 gals or more through the pot at once. It seems to give a plant the chance to use it built up nutes thus expelling them from the smoke. Didn't want to write a novel so tried to get it to the point in the short.
 
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