trayvan martin

MuyLocoNC

MuyLocoNC

Well-Known Member
BossHoggins said:
A .380 ACP absolutely is a short 9mm! My Beretta .380 is stamped as "CAL. 9 Short"

Just like a .40 is a short 10mm.. In fact, us 10mm Auto owners call the .40 S&W round the ".40 short and weak"

Sure, you probably can't/shouldn't cross feed it.. but that doesn't change what it is.
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Assuming Kynes is correct, which is almost always safe to do, I think you're incorrect. How can it be a short 9mm if it was designed a year before that round existed? Wouldn't it be more likely that the 9mm is a longer copy of the ACP?
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
MuyLocoNC said:
There sure is a difference. There IS a verdict of "innocent", while the verdict of "barely not guilty of manslaughter" only exists in the deluded minds of male liberals with arms like 8 year old girls and a fathomable fear of basic division.
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and zimmy did not get the innocent verdict.

he got not guilty (of manslaughter), and just barely at that.
 
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BossHoggins

Member
MuyLocoNC said:
Assuming Kynes is correct, which is almost always safe to do, I think you're incorrect. How can it be a short 9mm if it was designed a year before that round existed? Wouldn't it be more likely that the 9mm is a longer copy of the ACP?
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I deleted my post because I forgot I was in the Politics section.. but since you caught me..

A .380 is a short 9. There are no 2 ways about it. Like I mentioned, it's even stamped on the side of my .380 as a 9 Short. Now, whether the .380 came before the 9mm or not, I couldn't tell you. I'd have to look it up. That still doesn't change the fact that the .380 ACP is well known as a short 9.
 
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BossHoggins

Member
MuyLocoNC said:
There sure is a difference. There IS a verdict of "innocent", while the verdict of "barely not guilty of manslaughter" only exists in the deluded minds of male liberals with arms like 8 year old girls and a fathomable fear of basic division.
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Since I'm here.. I'll mention that I heard an interview with a judge who was asked how many times he gives out a verdict of innocent. After he chuckled, he said there is no such thing. Just guilty and not guilty. Nobody in court is innocent.
 
MuyLocoNC

MuyLocoNC

Well-Known Member
BossHoggins said:
Since I'm here.. I'll mention that I heard an interview with a judge who was asked how many times he gives out a verdict of innocent. After he chuckled, he said there is no such thing. Just guilty and not guilty. Nobody in court is innocent.
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I was going to make that point in my post as well since it completely negates the point of the nitwit who liked your post. Jurors can ONLY come back with Guilty or Not Guilty, so it isn't a stigma as UB is trying to allude. A judge CAN use the term "innocent of all charges", but it is rare. What you won't ever hear is "barely not guilty".

Tell us again how it was barely, when it was a unanimous decision? I would think "barely" would be reserved for a defendant who goes through a trial, gets a hung jury and THEN gets a "not guilty". Seems like a unanimous "not guilty", right out of the gate, is a slam dunk. Especially on a trial where there was so much pressure from slobbering, half-witted lawyer wannabes to find him guilty. The jury wasn't sequestered, they saw the entire media blitz and they STILL let him off Scott free.
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
BossHoggins said:
I deleted my post because I forgot I was in the Politics section.. but since you caught me..

A .380 is a short 9. There are no 2 ways about it. Like I mentioned, it's even stamped on the side of my .380 as a 9 Short. Now, whether the .380 came before the 9mm or not, I couldn't tell you. I'd have to look it up. That still doesn't change the fact that the .380 ACP is well known as a short 9.
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the 380 ACP is NOT a shortened 9mm parabellum.

the name "9mm Short" is used occaisionally in europe as a marketing ploy, since most european nations have laws barring private ownership of guns chambered for "Military rounds".

if you see a 380 acp headstamped as 9 short, then it's shitty european ammo. it will be substandard shit useful only for plinking.
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
BossHoggins said:
Since I'm here.. I'll mention that I heard an interview with a judge who was asked how many times he gives out a verdict of innocent. After he chuckled, he said there is no such thing. Just guilty and not guilty. Nobody in court is innocent.
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au contraire.

fatty arbuckle recieved a verdict of Not Guilty, followed by a statement from the jury and the judge that he was 100% innocent and the charges where horseshit.

he was still ruined by assholes like bucky who always want to see somebody fall.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
MuyLocoNC said:
Tell us again how it was barely
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they deliberated for 12 hours and then asked for instructions on manslaughter.

it was basically a case of 5 jurors, 2 of whom initially also wanted manslaughter, pressuring one juror to make the same decision.

happens all the time in cases. juror pressure is a very real phenomenon.*

i could cite the asch conformity experiments, but that's a bit above the pay grade of a guy who hangs curtains for a living.

MuyLocoNC said:
The jury wasn't sequestered, they saw the entire media blitz and they STILL let him off Scott free.
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and then again there's your complete and utter aversion to reality and facts.

how you tie your shoes in the morning without adult supervision is a mystery to all of us.
 
Harrekin

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
Dr Kynes said:
the 380 ACP is NOT a shortened 9mm parabellum.

the name "9mm Short" is used occaisionally in europe as a marketing ploy, since most european nations have laws barring private ownership of guns chambered for "Military rounds".

if you see a 380 acp headstamped as 9 short, then it's shitty european ammo. it will be substandard shit useful only for plinking.
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You guys are fucking ghey when it comes to guns.

Take a callipers... the round has a 9mm diameter.

Everyone wins!

No need to be too pacific about it ;)
 
C

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
MuyLocoNC said:
I was going to make that point in my post as well since it completely negates the point of the nitwit who liked your post. Jurors can ONLY come back with Guilty or Not Guilty, so it isn't a stigma as UB is trying to allude. A judge CAN use the term "innocent of all charges", but it is rare. What you won't ever hear is "barely not guilty".

Tell us again how it was barely, when it was a unanimous decision? I would think "barely" would be reserved for a defendant who goes through a trial, gets a hung jury and THEN gets a "not guilty". Seems like a unanimous "not guilty", right out of the gate, is a slam dunk. Especially on a trial where there was so much pressure from slobbering, half-witted lawyer wannabes to find him guilty. The jury wasn't sequestered, they saw the entire media blitz and they STILL let him off Scott free.
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Yes I am sure OJ was "Innocent" of killing two white people with the not guilty verdict he got
And I am sure those 3 white cops were "Innocent" not beating Rodney King with the original not guilty verdict they got
 
B

BossHoggins

Member
Dr Kynes said:
the 380 ACP is NOT a shortened 9mm parabellum.

the name "9mm Short" is used occaisionally in europe as a marketing ploy, since most european nations have laws barring private ownership of guns chambered for "Military rounds".

if you see a 380 acp headstamped as 9 short, then it's shitty european ammo. it will be substandard shit useful only for plinking.
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This is why I don't like to post in politics.

.380 ACP is synonymous with 9 short whether you like it or not. A rose by any other name is still a rose.

And for the record, the 9x19 was designed by Georg Luger and introduced by DWM in 1902 for use in the Luger semi auto pistol, and I would assume that since Browning was the badass he was.. he likely knew about it when Colt introduced the 9x17 .380 ACP in 1908. Looks to me as if it is a shortened 9 after all. That would explain why it's so commonly known as a 9 Short. Go figure! You keep saying it's not.. but I see this as how can it not be?

As far as the stamp on the cartridge itself goes, it's really foolish to say that the naming convention on the case has anything at all to do with the quality of the round more so than the company that produced it. By this logic, is my Beretta 'substandard shit' because it has 9 Short stamped into it? I hardly think so. If you were to buy 10mm ammo, it's all stamped 10mm, yet most companies use the "FBI Lite" loading because of guns like the Glock that don't have full chamber support. Unless you knew which companies made the full power round, it'd be a shot in the dark. Again, it doesn't matter what's stamped on it. What matters is who made it.

In any case, I think it's pretty clear, so.. I'm gonna call it quits on this. The .380 ACP AKA 9 Short is a shortened 9x19. You are just gonna have to live with it.

Edit on history for clarification.
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
Harrekin said:
You guys are fucking ghey when it comes to guns.

Take a callipers... the round has a 9mm diameter.

Everyone wins!

No need to be too pacific about it ;)
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quoth the irishman who's holster has laid empty far too long.


if you arent specific about what kind of ammo you cram in your gun, everybody will have to start calling you Stumpy.
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
BossHoggins said:
This is why I don't like to post in politics.

.380 ACP is synonymous with 9 short whether you like it or not. A rose by any other name is still a rose.

And for the record, the 9x19 was designed by Georg Luger and introduced by DWM in 1902 for use in the Luger semi auto pistol, and I would assume that since Browning was the badass he was.. he likely knew about it when Colt introduced the 9x17 .380 ACP in 1908. Looks to me as if it is a shortened 9 after all. That would explain why it's so commonly known as a 9 Short. Go figure! You keep saying it's not.. but I see this as how can it not be?

As far as the stamp on the cartridge itself goes, it's really foolish to say that the naming convention on the case has anything at all to do with the quality of the round more so than the company that produced it. By this logic, is my Beretta 'substandard shit' because it has 9 Short stamped into it? I hardly think so. If you were to buy 10mm ammo, it's all stamped 10mm, yet most companies use the "FBI Lite" loading because of guns like the Glock that don't have full chamber support. Unless you knew which companies made the full power round, it'd be a shot in the dark. Again, it doesn't matter what's stamped on it. What matters is who made it.

In any case, I think it's pretty clear, so.. I'm gonna call it quits on this. The .380 ACP AKA 9 Short is a shortened 9x19. You are just gonna have to live with it.



Edit on history for clarification.
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my source says your wrong and that the 9mm parabellum/luger was released in 1908, AFTER the 1907 debut of Browning's .380.

~ Speer Reloading Manual 14th edition, 2007

other sources list 1902 for the 9mm luger/parabellum, others say 1904, but in the end, i gotta go with my reloading manuals. they are thus far always right, as proved by my current count of Ten Fingers.
 
B

BossHoggins

Member
I know.. I called it quits, so I'll at least keep it short.

Pictures of a 1902 DWM Luger in 9mm Parabellum that were made for and sent to the US for evaluation. Included in the info is the serial number convention they used.

"In September 1902 DWM began to manufacture the 9mm Luger within the 22000-22999 and included in this group are the 02 American Eagle, the 02 Commercial, the late 9mm commerical carbine, the 1902 American Eagle Cartridge Counter 22401-22450 and the 1902 Danzig Luger.""

http://www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com/History Book/907CC02.htm

But hey, good job ignoring all of the other info you dug up saying anything but what you stubbornly cling to for absolutely no reason in favor of 1 source.

Gotta love the politics section.
 
B

BaroqueObammer

New Member
Dr Kynes said:
au contraire.

fatty arbuckle recieved a verdict of Not Guilty, followed by a statement from the jury and the judge that he was 100% innocent and the charges where horseshit.

he was still ruined by assholes like bucky who always want to see somebody fall.
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lmao fatty arbuckle ruined himself by breaking a coke bottle in that ho.
 
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