Transplant shock, first day alright but something is going wrong...

murderdude · Mar 10, 2015

So I picked up a few clones after I had my hydro system set up. I'm using a DWC with 2 five gallon buckets, and I have a 250w bulb in a 3x3 grow room. I know it's not a lot of light but hear me out..

So I set up my grow and went to pick up the clones.
Never picked up clones before, so didn't know what to expect.
Got these.

Notice how they're in soil...
It's great genetics, and the roots had barely left the plugs. I transplanted them with 0 problems, being very careful to gently wash the roots in tepid water before placing them in my pebble medium.

Here's how they looked day 1.
Notice the twisting and hooking.. This was after several hours of being in the new medium.

At this point i had not tested my PPMs because I'm new at this and I didn't have money for a meter.
This leads to day 2, 3. I started to notice some spots on 2 leaves that appeared to be like a calcium deficiency, as well as on the other plant symptoms resembling overwatering (see 2nd image)

They spread, I didn't do anything because I was told transplant shock can be bad. I added an extra air stone to both tanks so they now have 2 each, because the one resembled overwatering, and I thought that might be contributing to the lack of absorption of the calcium but wait, there's more..

So that leads me to today. Day 4. They looked like THIS when I woke up (don't mind the 81, it's because I was messing with the vents, i brought it right back down)

So I went out and bought a TDS meter and measured my 2 reserviors, and they were OVER 10000ppm. I had only used half of the recommended dose of ionic nutrients! So needless to say I quickly changed my water, remeasured my nutes ml by ml and I'm sitting at 380ppm and 420ppm, then re-corrected my pH to 6.1 and 6.2. I'm sitting steady at 60% humidity (trying to boost it, having no luck.) and 73-75 degrees at all times. I have a small fan blowing across them too.

My question to you guys is.. What else can I do!?!? Does any one have any ideas?

AlphaPhase · Mar 10, 2015

Give it time, it sounds like they've went through a lot, but it sounds like you've taken the steps needed to correct the problems and the only thing left to do is wait. If everything is in check now (water temp, ppm, ph), time will resolve everything. I had the same thing happen to 9 clones a friend gave me. I received them in big root plugs and not knowing how to use them (I grow in hydroton) I overwatered them, underwatered them. They looked like shit for a week. I kept all variables in check and a week later they started growing again.

spek9 · Mar 10, 2015

I agree. Give them time. They've gone through a lot.

Don't change more than one thing at a time, and when you do change something, give it a few days to see effects before changing anything else.

-spek

ClymbRunFly · Mar 10, 2015

I transplanted my plant as a clone from rockwool to my DWC as well. I wasn't using any nutrients the first week or so and top fed once per day (poured water from resevoir into the top).

Is the water reaching the roots? Your plant looks like this to me:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ICDco57I5yU/T6u4DcPo5mI/AAAAAAAAAcA/zumY4IG53a0/s1600/weed-under-watered.jpg

Which is underwatering.

Also my plants starting getting all spotty just like yours at one point without enough nutrients.

So if you're not getting water to the root then that's a) underwatered and b) nutrient deficient (can't get nutrients without the water in DWC).

LMK

rob333 · Mar 10, 2015

murderdude said:
So I picked up a few clones after I had my hydro system set up. I'm using a DWC with 2 five gallon buckets, and I have a 250w bulb in a 3x3 grow room. I know it's not a lot of light but hear me out..

So I set up my grow and went to pick up the clones.
Never picked up clones before, so didn't know what to expect.
Got these.
View attachment 3369032
Notice how they're in soil...
It's great genetics, and the roots had barely left the plugs. I transplanted them with 0 problems, being very careful to gently wash the roots in tepid water before placing them in my pebble medium.

Here's how they looked day 1.
Notice the twisting and hooking.. This was after several hours of being in the new medium.
View attachment 3369035 View attachment 3369033

At this point i had not tested my PPMs because I'm new at this and I didn't have money for a meter.
This leads to day 2, 3. I started to notice some spots on 2 leaves that appeared to be like a calcium deficiency, as well as on the other plant symptoms resembling overwatering (see 2nd image)

View attachment 3369041
View attachment 3369048

They spread, I didn't do anything because I was told transplant shock can be bad. I added an extra air stone to both tanks so they now have 2 each, because the one resembled overwatering, and I thought that might be contributing to the lack of absorption of the calcium but wait, there's more..

So that leads me to today. Day 4. They looked like THIS when I woke up (don't mind the 81, it's because I was messing with the vents, i brought it right back down)
View attachment 3369044 View attachment 3369045

So I went out and bought a TDS meter and measured my 2 reserviors, and they were OVER 10000ppm. I had only used half of the recommended dose of ionic nutrients! So needless to say I quickly changed my water, remeasured my nutes ml by ml and I'm sitting at 380ppm and 420ppm, then re-corrected my pH to 6.1 and 6.2. I'm sitting steady at 60% humidity (trying to boost it, having no luck.) and 73-75 degrees at all times. I have a small fan blowing across them too.

My question to you guys is.. What else can I do!?!? Does any one have any ideas?

looks like an onset of root rot

murderdude · Mar 10, 2015

ClymbRunFly said:
I transplanted my plant as a clone from rockwool to my DWC as well. I wasn't using any nutrients the first week or so and top fed once per day (poured water from resevoir into the top).

Is the water reaching the roots? Your plant looks like this to me:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ICDco57I5yU/T6u4DcPo5mI/AAAAAAAAAcA/zumY4IG53a0/s1600/weed-under-watered.jpg

Which is underwatering.

Also my plants starting getting all spotty just like yours at one point without enough nutrients.

So if you're not getting water to the root then that's a) underwatered and b) nutrient deficient (can't get nutrients without the water in DWC).

LMK

I can't see bubbling through medium and top layer of medium is dry. But the plug is fully wet and spongy to touch. I don't know if that's right though, I've been trying to look it up.

Also I looked at the roots and they're nice and white

peaceandlove600 · Mar 11, 2015

I'm not an expert on hydro but I can tell you that you being new to growing your going to find hydro more challenging than others. Hydro is much less forgiving than say soiless medium and soils. Like these guys said these are young plants that just had their whole world they knew turned upside down. Just give them time and dont do too much more than you would for Any other plant giving too much can be worse than too little. I would give them a small dose of super thrive stuff works awesome for stressed plants. I use it every time I transplant or change environments.

peaceandlove600 · Mar 11, 2015

Btw ionic is garbage i used it in my first grow it worked but general hydroponics Is the best stuff ive used so far

murderdude · Mar 11, 2015

peaceandlove600 said:
Btw ionic is garbage i used it in my first grow it worked but general hydroponics Is the best stuff ive used so far

I'm not above changing nutrients too, this was just suggested to me by an acquaintance.

peaceandlove600 said:
I'm not an expert on hydro but I can tell you that you being new to growing your going to find hydro more challenging than others. Hydro is much less forgiving than say soiless medium and soils. Like these guys said these are young plants that just had their whole world they knew turned upside down. Just give them time and dont do too much more than you would for Any other plant giving too much can be worse than too little. I would give them a small dose of super thrive stuff works awesome for stressed plants. I use it every time I transplant or change environments.

Someone suggested to me to get Revive, is that similar to Super Thrive? I'm gonna walk down to the hydro shop soon and pick up something. I'm super new to this but i'm a quick learner.

peaceandlove600 · Mar 11, 2015

murderdude said:
I'm not above changing nutrients too, this was just suggested to me by an acquaintance.

Someone suggested to me to get Revive, is that similar to Super Thrive? I'm gonna walk down to the hydro shop soon and pick up something. I'm super new to this but i'm a quick learner.

I have never heard of revive you would have to ask someone who had used it

ClymbRunFly · Mar 11, 2015

Do you have updated pictures from today? Hydro changes fast. I don't really think its any more difficult but I have seen that each grow room is different for hydro. For me the only thing I had to add extra beyond my nutrients and water was adding Aquashield to help keep off any pathogens that were attacking my roots. After that it has been easy as pie.

If your air temperature is okay, roots aren't infected, pH is where it should be and nutrients are on the lower side for the seedling then it really should bounce back. I chopped off all the roots and most of the growth of my plant, then soaked the remaining roots in straight h202 for about 30 minutes and she even bounced back.

Also about the PPM, I'm still figuring out the best range but mine is about 5-6 weeks into veg and I'm maxxing out at 195 ppm with tap water at ~50ppm. So I'm using a lot less nutrients.

See what I mean how every grow room is different? And maybe I could benefit from more nutrients but at least I can tell you my plant which is much further along can survive off much less nutrients than you're using.

I'd like to see a picture from today if you can because from what I'm reading I think the girls are just stressed out and need a couple days of consistent ideal conditions.

murderdude · Mar 11, 2015

ClymbRunFly said:
Do you have updated pictures from today? Hydro changes fast. I don't really think its any more difficult but I have seen that each grow room is different for hydro. For me the only thing I had to add extra beyond my nutrients and water was adding Aquashield to help keep off any pathogens that were attacking my roots. After that it has been easy as pie.

If your air temperature is okay, roots aren't infected, pH is where it should be and nutrients are on the lower side for the seedling then it really should bounce back. I chopped off all the roots and most of the growth of my plant, then soaked the remaining roots in straight h202 for about 30 minutes and she even bounced back.

Also about the PPM, I'm still figuring out the best range but mine is about 5-6 weeks into veg and I'm maxxing out at 195 ppm with tap water at ~50ppm. So I'm using a lot less nutrients.

See what I mean how every grow room is different? And maybe I could benefit from more nutrients but at least I can tell you my plant which is much further along can survive off much less nutrients than you're using.

I'd like to see a picture from today if you can because from what I'm reading I think the girls are just stressed out and need a couple days of consistent ideal conditions.

I was literally about to run down the the hydro store and pick up Hydroguard because someone suggested maybe root rot, and knowing this is my first time growing I probably won't be able to maintain a sterile environment as well as someone else. I do not think it's root rot though.

In answer to how they look this morning.... (i literally woke up on pins and needles) The one that looked like it had symptoms of overwatering (stephanie, she's blue rhino) actually got worse. It definitely looked slightly more droopy, so I posted a thread about DWC water level and have since lowered it like 7 inches (did it to both plants to be safe). The other plant (charlotte, white widow) seems to just be stable. I've managed to raise the humidity so that will probably help. Here's some pics from today, my water level pre and post fix and the plants right after i took some water out.

So then i changed it to here

and now were here

If you were going to apply Hydroguard or aquashield or whatever, would you top feed it in? and if so, would you mix them up and just add it to the water level? OR should i wait until the roots grow a little more and drink a little?

ClymbRunFly · Mar 11, 2015

Good job dropping the water level. It definitely needs to be where you put it down to. The bubbles should spray up enough water to keep the rocks moist. Up until the roots reached the resevoir I would top feed just pouring some of the water from the res with a cup into the top of the net pot once per day. Once they hit the res there wasn't any need. As for the hydroguard, when I first got it I would apply it directly to the lower stem (top of the net pot) and let it dribble down. Now there's so much foliage that it isn't easy enough to apply it there so I just add it right into the res and it hasn't hurt. Where you're at I would add it to the base stem there at least as long as you can.

I think they're going to be okay though. The one on the right definitely looks better but I think the one on the left will bounce back as well.

As for hydroguard vs. sterile vs. nothing I tried all 3. With nothing my roots rotted, with sterile they didn't improve and I had to add H2O2 every day (because it evaporates out/dissolves) and with the hydroguard I would just add it at resevoir change once per week and while the original miscolored roots stayed the net pots exploded with white roots and now, several weeks later, there's so many white roots you can't even see the original bad ones.

I've seen people say don't use anything, but for me that didn't work and for you I think with the black tops to those buckets your water is going to warm up which, in my experience and from what I've read, is what really opens the door for root rot. So if that water temperature is going to rise you might want the hydroguard or something similar as a preventative. I'll be watching your thread so looking forward to an update the next day or two!

murderdude · Mar 11, 2015

ClymbRunFly said:
Good job dropping the water level. It definitely needs to be where you put it down to. The bubbles should spray up enough water to keep the rocks moist. Up until the roots reached the resevoir I would top feed just pouring some of the water from the res with a cup into the top of the net pot once per day. Once they hit the res there wasn't any need. As for the hydroguard, when I first got it I would apply it directly to the lower stem (top of the net pot) and let it dribble down. Now there's so much foliage that it isn't easy enough to apply it there so I just add it right into the res and it hasn't hurt. Where you're at I would add it to the base stem there at least as long as you can.

I think they're going to be okay though. The one on the right definitely looks better but I think the one on the left will bounce back as well.

As for hydroguard vs. sterile vs. nothing I tried all 3. With nothing my roots rotted, with sterile they didn't improve and I had to add H2O2 every day (because it evaporates out/dissolves) and with the hydroguard I would just add it at resevoir change once per week and while the original miscolored roots stayed the net pots exploded with white roots and now, several weeks later, there's so many white roots you can't even see the original bad ones.

I've seen people say don't use anything, but for me that didn't work and for you I think with the black tops to those buckets your water is going to warm up which, in my experience and from what I've read, is what really opens the door for root rot. So if that water temperature is going to rise you might want the hydroguard or something similar as a preventative. I'll be watching your thread so looking forward to an update the next day or two!

Did you use Hydroguard in combination with h202? It seems like a lot but from what I can tell h2o2 is pretty good for making my buckets sterile, especially since i started with contaminated roots.

ClymbRunFly · Mar 11, 2015

murderdude said:
Did you use Hydroguard in combination with h202? It seems like a lot but from what I can tell h2o2 is pretty good for making my buckets sterile, especially since i started with contaminated roots.

Actually I did and its one of the worst things you can do IMO. What happened was I used H2O2 while I was waiting for my Hydroguard, and when my Hydroguard came I added it in. The plant got worse. So I swapped out the res and went back to H2O2, then eventually decided to add more Hydroguard. Got horrible gunk and the plant looked worse. I almost gave up but decided (after a realization noted below) to make a fresh res and only use the hydroguard and just ride it out with my fingers crossed. The plant bounced back and I haven't touched the H2O2 since.

Why did this happen? Pretty straight forward. H2O2 is for sterile res, i.e. it will kill anything in there. Hydroguard is a beneficial bacteria. Thus, if you use them together you kill off your beneficials. From what I could tell this makes the issue come back even worse! Because then you have dead decomposing beneficials and whatever else floating around, and after about 24 hours the H2O2 evaporates off, leaving a dirty res with nothing to fight off the bad stuff.

SO you gotta pick one. Sterile, nothing, or beneficials. I like the beneficials because its worked for me, I only add it back in once per week (I think they make a living culture on your roots and you may not need to add it over and over but I'm not taking chances), and not all variables are in check in my grow such as the water temperature so I have to have something.

One thing that might help you IF you think you're infected is what I did the last time I used H2O2. I have two buckets. In one bucket I added water and H202 and let it bubble for 24 hours. In the other bucket where the plant was I put a heavy dose of H2O2 and let it sit for 24 hours. After 24 hours, I swapped my plant to the second res, assuming most the H2O2 evaporated, added my nutrients and Hydroguard. That way, from my POV, I had as little bad stuff as possible left in the res (sterile), and no H2O2 left over (evaporated) to kill my beneficials. I added a little more Hydroguard the next day just in case some leftover H2O2 had killed anything off.

Since then I just top off and add Hydroguard once a week or at res changes. I have a bottle of H2O2 left but don't intend to use it.

murderdude · Mar 12, 2015

ClymbRunFly said:
Actually I did and its one of the worst things you can do IMO. What happened was I used H2O2 while I was waiting for my Hydroguard, and when my Hydroguard came I added it in. The plant got worse. So I swapped out the res and went back to H2O2, then eventually decided to add more Hydroguard. Got horrible gunk and the plant looked worse. I almost gave up but decided (after a realization noted below) to make a fresh res and only use the hydroguard and just ride it out with my fingers crossed. The plant bounced back and I haven't touched the H2O2 since.

Why did this happen? Pretty straight forward. H2O2 is for sterile res, i.e. it will kill anything in there. Hydroguard is a beneficial bacteria. Thus, if you use them together you kill off your beneficials. From what I could tell this makes the issue come back even worse! Because then you have dead decomposing beneficials and whatever else floating around, and after about 24 hours the H2O2 evaporates off, leaving a dirty res with nothing to fight off the bad stuff.

SO you gotta pick one. Sterile, nothing, or beneficials. I like the beneficials because its worked for me, I only add it back in once per week (I think they make a living culture on your roots and you may not need to add it over and over but I'm not taking chances), and not all variables are in check in my grow such as the water temperature so I have to have something.

One thing that might help you IF you think you're infected is what I did the last time I used H2O2. I have two buckets. In one bucket I added water and H202 and let it bubble for 24 hours. In the other bucket where the plant was I put a heavy dose of H2O2 and let it sit for 24 hours. After 24 hours, I swapped my plant to the second res, assuming most the H2O2 evaporated, added my nutrients and Hydroguard. That way, from my POV, I had as little bad stuff as possible left in the res (sterile), and no H2O2 left over (evaporated) to kill my beneficials. I added a little more Hydroguard the next day just in case some leftover H2O2 had killed anything off.

Since then I just top off and add Hydroguard once a week or at res changes. I have a bottle of H2O2 left but don't intend to use it.

I'm sorry to say it clymb, but I had to throw in the towel. I have an autopsy report, looks like the roots were showing early onset of root rot, the plugs were building a nice film of algae. Needless to say, shit went south quick.
But I have a brand new set of clones meant for hydro this time : )
Below are the autopsy pictures and new lankey ladies in their new home.
The two new ones are Sweet Cheese, a nice sativa. I went light on the nutes, set it at about 270ppm each with a ph of 5.8 or 9, water temperature is 68 and air temp and humidity both stable (pic included). I raised the lights a little bit to give them some time to adapt. Any other ideas?

Also... No more contaminated grow! Woo!

And now the new ladies

ClymbRunFly · Mar 12, 2015

murderdude said:
I'm sorry to say it clymb, but I had to throw in the towel. I have an autopsy report, looks like the roots were showing early onset of root rot, the plugs were building a nice film of algae. Needless to say, shit went south quick.
But I have a brand new set of clones meant for hydro this time : )
Below are the autopsy pictures and new lankey ladies in their new home.
The two new ones are Sweet Cheese, a nice sativa. I went light on the nutes, set it at about 270ppm each with a ph of 5.8 or 9, water temperature is 68 and air temp and humidity both stable (pic included). I raised the lights a little bit to give them some time to adapt. Any other ideas?

Also... No more contaminated grow! Woo!

View attachment 3370466 View attachment 3370467
And now the new ladies

View attachment 3370468
View attachment 3370470

That's a bummer man. The new plants look good though. Some sweet clones. I actually ended up getting rid of the rockwool cube my clone came in after I got root rot, since I figured it was infected. I also put it far down into the netpot - I put the roots all the way nearly on the very bottom of and carefully piled rocks up around them.

I can see the brown in the old plants' roots and mine looked similar, but the plant was older, so there were more. I didn't have any of the green growth though.

For the new ones everything you're doing sounds good. They look and should be fine. I would top feed maybe once a day, just give them water from the res.

How are you planning on keeping off the previous problems? Were you able to get any sort of beneficials or sterilizers? Like I said some people don't use anything and others buy reservoir coolers to keep their temperatures down. I think my water temperature sits a little higher than yours. Hope you keep posting the grow man it's fun to watch, I'll be rooting for your plants :blsmoke:

Transplant shock, first day alright but something is going wrong...

murderdude

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