Total Hydroponic Control (T.H.C.) - The build starts NOW!

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contraptionated

New Member
Total.Hydroponic.Control said:
My "real" job has been incredibly tasking for the last several months. I've been busy working on several large servo applications. But this project was where my heart was. NO MORE EXCUSES.

During this last week this project has really raced towards maturity. All sensors have been calibrated, and the functions of the controller have all been tested. Heres an overview.


First screen. System Overview, all environmental variables can be viewed from this screen. From here various other screens control the real world outputs to achieve the set points of your environment. The controller sends email and text messages regarding parameters that have crawled outside user dictated settings.
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This is the PH and EC transmitter.
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PH and EC probes. Very rugged. Non submersible. These probes will be inserted in wells. The EC probe will NEVER need to be replaced. The PH probe will last up to two years.
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Here is an example of a lighting screen. This screen shows output conditions along with allowing the light cycle to be adjusted and start time to be entered.
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Another lighting screen. This screen include the hot restart protection timer. The HPS or MH will not be allowed to restart after an off condition until the user settable time has elapsed. It also includes a bypass feature for the hot restart timer, along with a manual over ride.
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Every parameter, including ph, ec, temp, humidity, and co2 level are trend graphed. The controller displays up to a hundred hours of logged data, and by simply plugging in a compact flash card into the HMI it will store any amount of data you could desire. This means you can go back at any time during the grow and view the conditions that resulted in either a fantastic harvest, or a sub par harvest.
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Exhaust, circulation, and air conditioning screen. Also includes a safety temp feature. This is a user settable temp at which all field devices are shut down do to a severe over temperature.
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Here is one of two main enclosures, this enclosure handles all the switching of high loads, also present is the power line filter, and 24 volt power supply which provides control power to much of the unit. You can see on the swing up door the receptacles which are front facing. Field devices like the HPS ballast, pumps, fans, and other controlled devices plug into this distribution panel, and then the power flow to them is controlled by the lower set of relays pictured. These relays are driven by the plc in the "control" cabinet.
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This is where the PLC, or CPU resides, along with the HMI, this cabinet is devoted to processing and displaying signals.
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The next and final phase of this controller build will be the high precision dosing system. These are high speed output cards which will feed a pulse train to 4 stepper motors controlling sub-mililiter accuracy dosing pumps. These pumps are capable of generating a vacuum for lift applications, and can dose into a pressurized line with incredible repeatability. After the dosing module is complete this unit will be headed out to a lucky grower for a nearly hands free test run. The system should be fully capable of creating a stress free, low maintenance, zero hassle hydroponic environment for any number of lucky ladies.
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Click to expand...
I applaud you, sir, in your efforts to bring the ultimate environment to your grow room. I read through your most recent post and I can't find any mention of automatic or on demand water changes on a timed cycle or push of a button. I am thinking that it is implied through the mention of many a timer and various control aspects. What kind of level sensor are you using to let the system know where low and high water level is to initiate or de-activate a dewatering and/or watering pump? I'm very curious... We can compare notes . I have an automatic system but I don't use a screen to alert me of the water parameters. I simply have stable dialed in conditions with the help of a DIY variation of Fatmans nutes, stable pH from potassium hydroxide and the penultimate ventilation by means of a perforated raised semi-reflective floor (which passive intake air flows through) and exhaust ports located above the hoods (bottom to top airflow, what could be better) .
 
T

Total.Hydroponic.Control

Active Member
contraptionated said:
I applaud you, sir, in your efforts to bring the ultimate environment to your grow room. I read through your most recent post and I can't find any mention of automatic or on demand water changes on a timed cycle or push of a button. I am thinking that it is implied through the mention of many a timer and various control aspects. What kind of level sensor are you using to let the system know where low and high water level is to initiate or de-activate a dewatering and/or watering pump? I'm very curious... We can compare notes . I have an automatic system but I don't use a screen to alert me of the water parameters. I simply have stable dialed in conditions with the help of a DIY variation of Fatmans nutes, stable pH from potassium hydroxide and the penultimate ventilation by means of a perforated raised semi-reflective floor (which passive intake air flows through) and exhaust ports located above the hoods (bottom to top airflow, what could be better) .
Click to expand...

Reservoir changes can be set to a periodic trigger, or a manual one. For those running drain to waste the entire nute reservoir can be batched each time, in which case your essentially running a full reservoir change each feeding. Water level is controlled via ultra sonic sensor. Here is a video of the stepper peristaltic pumps being used for the nute injection system. Steppers are far more accurate than PWM controlled DC motors, and they have a far longer service life as there are no brushes. The stepper drives are controlled via high speed pulses, in this video they are being simulated through a process meter, the value on the meter indicates the frequency in pulses per second, or hertz.

[video=youtube_share;3SnTnyzH47M]http://youtu.be/3SnTnyzH47M[/video]
 
J

JohnJonesTheGardener

Member
Fantastic setup. I've used something similar (steelworks effluent treatment plant) and they are brilliant. One question though, does yours record the input data? I realise that it sends alerts if they system goes outside of it's parameters but, sometimes it's useful to see when any variations are occurring, however minute they may be.
 
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Total.Hydroponic.Control

Active Member
parameters are all graphed on data trend screens, each parameter is recorded hourly. Parameters are all stored in excel spreadsheet format and stored to a compact flash card for review when necessary. Because the unit is FTP capable, the spreadsheet can be downloaded remotely.
 
J

JohnJonesTheGardener

Member
Cool. I tried to view the images... thanks for re-uploading them. Could this, or something similar also be used to control fan speed, for use with a vented hood?
Is ladder language hard to learn? I read the wikipedia article on it and it seems extremely simple but, wikipedia is hardly a complete and accurate source of information.
 
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Total.Hydroponic.Control

Active Member
Its no harder than learning any programming language. The core of ladder logic is simply boolean expressions. Ladder logic isn't difficult until you get to pid loops, coodinated motion control, and complex data manipulation. Its more important to understand electronic fundamentals than the nuances of ladder logic. If you can program in any computer language you can easily grasp ladder logic. Ideal control of fan speed would be through the use of a 3 phase motor being controlled by a variable frequency drive. You can also use pulse width modulation but it will make more noise. Chances are, if the operation is of considerable size, 3 phase power is available and being utilized in which case a 3 phase fan motor is ideal. Furthermore many drives allow for a single phase input (115-240v) and then the power is converted on a dc bus, and rebuilt into a 3 phase sign wave with FETS.
 
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Total.Hydroponic.Control

Active Member
laddersample2.jpgladdersample.jpg

Here are two samples of ladder logic... one of the samples is purely boolean logic, the second is data manipulation. The hardest part about programming ladder logic is understanding different numbering systems (binary, octal, decimal, hexadecimal, BCD, etc) and how that data must be manipulated in order to use certain operators on that data. Many times an instruction will only work on one data type, but your data is stored as another, knowing when and why data must be manipulated is most of the battle.
 
ASMALLVOICE

ASMALLVOICE

Well-Known Member
Very Nice Setup M8.

I too have been in the automation field for longer than I care to mention. Lol. I use an automation system as well, and it does all with the exception of managing actual nutrient levels. I will eventually get a ph and ec transmitter as I can read voltage or milliamp inputs. It uses a type of graphical programming (still Boolean based) but much nicer to work with. The trending capabilities are excellent, as every point can be graphed or work off of COV. It can send a text or page and alarm at the pc for any failures I have like pumps, fans and lights. With pc anywhere, I can access it from remote and change schedules and/or set points. As soon as I get the growing part down, I will then go for full automation on the nutrients as well, but I have a bit to go.
I have very wicked reigns on my grow room environment, now, just have to learn to grow right...lol

Looking forward to seeing your setup in action. :weed:

Peace and Great Grows

Asmallvoice
 
dochickory

dochickory

Well-Known Member
Boy! very nice job, do ya have a final on cost yet? 4k-5k?, I'm thinking frame 4 of your pics is the ph/ec sensors, and what is the controlled load range (in watts/amps) for lights? I'm assuming that is readily changeable, how about a parts list in .pdf and maybe links to suppliers? again great job,:clap:

non issue adding/dosing three reservoirs?

don't know how I missed this until today!
 
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Total.Hydroponic.Control

Active Member
Most of the parts including the controller was sourced through automation direct. The ph transmitter through Hanna instruments.

Because of the nature of industrial automation, and the means through which it was programmed, the system is 100% scalable, any number of reservoirs, and any number of lights... your imagination is truly the limit. Of course as the system is scaled so is the cost. Although as you add reservoirs and lights its minimal because the operator interface and primary controller already exist. In all reality the more reservoirs and lights controlled by the system, the more economical the system becomes. It can entirely eliminate human intervention for the most part. A grower goes from daily tasks of monitoring and tweaking the environment, to simply paying their entire attention to the plants.

Because of the sheer technological superiority of the dosing system. (most systems use brushed dc motors) it ended up coming in a little over 5k for the reservoir control, but it was worth the extra costs... i have sub milliliter accuracy, in adition to lab quality control of nutrient and additive ratios. The stepper drivers and stepper motors ate up some budget, but it was worth every penny for the peace of mind that steppers bring.

dochickory said:
Boy! very nice job, do ya have a final on cost yet? 4k-5k?, I'm thinking frame 4 of your pics is the ph/ec sensors, and what is the controlled load range (in watts/amps) for lights? I'm assuming that is readily changeable, how about a parts list in .pdf and maybe links to suppliers? again great job,:clap:

non issue adding/dosing three reservoirs?

don't know how I missed this until today!
Click to expand...
 
dochickory

dochickory

Well-Known Member
thanks, I just read what I wanted to read.........indeed, if I follow those links will they give me no.s and such amps/watts? I better go back and re-read.......the pictures showed up, my connection :sad: over cell phone, thanks again info and quick reply

THC- tried to PM you, either dumb or not allowed.anyway very interested in THC, exactly what I would build if I could. Planning to apply my scale model to larger horticulture growing centers, and with your THC system and some other automated energy saving and producing technologies will only sustain and improve quality of life into the future. Anyway interested in buying/beta-testing/investing in a system somehow.any interest at your end? we could figure out how to e-mail, try to e-mail me, if you want, Thanks, I'll go away and see what you do,
 
D

dxco

Active Member
Way Cool! - What type of system do you use to prevent over-dosing? Or do you just inject solution so slow or diluted to let the pH/EC value change slowly enough to avoid over-shooting the set point? I was thinking a PID type system.
Are the Automation Direct HMI's easy to program?
I'd like to get the IP/login info to look around at your system if that is still an option (even if it were just a temp password for a few minutes).

There is this israeli company that builds (or licenses) these fully automated greenhouses- I've got the website saved but can't find it. I'll continue to look as I think you would find it interesting: They are doing like 30,000sq ft sites with one operator! DX
 
puppetstring

puppetstring

Member
wow! loving this project, the interface, the trends, everything done nice and neat in enclosures and the attention to detail. i like to tinker with things but no where near this level. i use a brick transformer plugged into my timed light circuit to power the coil on a relay which switches between day/night speed controllers for my exhaust. i dream of one day having a system like this, everything integrated and automated and accessible from anywhere! + rep and subbed for this one!
 
C

crazed1011

Well-Known Member
I have just creamed my pants. being an electrician I was definitely thinking of doing a system with a plc to control everything.. quite expensive though
 
Stryp

Stryp

Active Member
Total.Hydroponic.Control said:
Because of the nature of industrial automation, and the means through which it was programmed, the system is 100% scalable, any number of reservoirs, and any number of lights... your imagination is truly the limit. Of course as the system is scaled so is the cost. Although as you add reservoirs and lights its minimal because the operator interface and primary controller already exist. In all reality the more reservoirs and lights controlled by the system, the more economical the system becomes. It can entirely eliminate human intervention for the most part. A grower goes from daily tasks of monitoring and tweaking the environment, to simply paying their entire attention to the plants.

Because of the sheer technological superiority of the dosing system. (most systems use brushed dc motors) it ended up coming in a little over 5k for the reservoir control, but it was worth the extra costs... i have sub milliliter accuracy, in adition to lab quality control of nutrient and additive ratios. The stepper drivers and stepper motors ate up some budget, but it was worth every penny for the peace of mind that steppers bring.
Click to expand...
Breathtaking! Top grade parts, ability to scale with sub-milliliter accuracy, just amazing. Can't wait to see this in action.
This just blew any automation ideas I had out of the water.
 
T

Total.Hydroponic.Control

Active Member
Well, the last update was over a year ago. The brain has been upgraded to a do-more processor, and I've distributed the system as previously described, only this time the distribution is happening via ethernet remote IO. It's still an automation direct product, it just allows me to space the modules up to 300 meters away from each other. The power module can be installed near your loads, the dosing controller near the reservoir, and the control panel in a convenient location for a process overview. The system is 95 percent complete, and will be going through the beginning test stages. It's already been running idly for about six months, with no issues. Now it's almost time to let it grow something.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Rollitup mobile app
 
T

Total.Hydroponic.Control

Active Member
Here is a picture of the Dosing Module. You will notice this system has been designed around six peristaltic pumps. Pumps one and two handle PH control, and the remaining four handle nutrients or additives. I've also included two screenshots from the operator panel. The first screen from the operator panel shows manual pump control. The second screen shows the nutrient recipe page. I spent an entire month developing the dosing features.

20141010_061509.jpg

This screen is for manual control, there are three main types of manual dosing functions... a jog function, in which you simply specify the speed, (1% to 100%) and then as long as you press the jog button the dosing pump jogs at that speed. The second mode is timed mode, in this mode, the selected pump will jog at your set speed, for a set time, at the end of that set time the pump will automatically stop. The third manual dosing function is based on volume. You can specify between 1, and 1000 milliliters. After the pump has dispensed the specified volume is stops automatically.

Finally there is a coordinate mode, which uses your recipe to develop two more manual funcitons, a jog mode, which will dispense your recipe at your requested speed using all 4 nutrient pumps running at you nutrient ratio, as long as you hold the jog button, and then a timed mode, which also dispenses at the nutrient recipe ratios for your specified time.

Each pump can be individually calibrated in terms of steps per milliliter.

Note that none of the functions I've described have anything to do with the controllers ability to automatically control the EC of your reservoir, the functions i just described pertain to the manual control of pumps, and for one time dosing by the user, if they would rather dose the reservoir themselves, while still maintaining the recipe ratios, or if the grower decides they would like to add more of a single nutrient part.

20141010_062003.jpg
20141010_061935.jpg
 
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ASMALLVOICE

ASMALLVOICE

Well-Known Member
That is finer than a new set of snow tires :clap:
I have my grow room automated as far as environmental controls and feeding cycles. I have all points trended and setup to deliver alarms to the pc. I would love to get my hands on a setup like this for creating and/or maintaining a res. Do you use the PID Recipe Mode for Ph control?. I can see dispensing fixed amounts of nutrients based on the res size, just curious how accurate the ph function is ( +/- ?%).

Once that is in place, all that is left is physical plant management ( lst, topping, cloning and the likes) and a normal cleaning regimen, I like the sound of that..lol

Many thanx for the share and look forward to more. :bigjoint:

Peace and Automated Grows

Asmallvoice
 
T

Total.Hydroponic.Control

Active Member
ASMALLVOICE said:
That is finer than a new set of snow tires :clap:
I have my grow room automated as far as environmental controls and feeding cycles. I have all points trended and setup to deliver alarms to the pc. I would love to get my hands on a setup like this for creating and/or maintaining a res. Do you use the PID Recipe Mode for Ph control?. I can see dispensing fixed amounts of nutrients based on the res size, just curious how accurate the ph function is ( +/- ?%).

Once that is in place, all that is left is physical plant management ( lst, topping, cloning and the likes) and a normal cleaning regimen, I like the sound of that..lol

Many thanx for the share and look forward to more. :bigjoint:

Peace and Automated Grows

Asmallvoice
Click to expand...

The PH dosing pumps have the same manual control Screen. This is because at any given time an operator should be able to control a pump manually to inspect its function. Beyond this, yes, the PH is controlled up and down via a PID function, and automatically adjusted. The accuracy of the automatic dosing is essentially a function of the deadband, which is also set by the user. If you'd like to hold a PH of 5.8, and you set the dead band to .2 ph, your PH will be allowed to swing between 5.6 and 6.0 ph, or .2 ph on either side of the setpoint. However, if you set the deadband to .1 ph, now the controller will automatically control the PH to a value between 5.7 and 5.9 for a setpoint of 5.8.

The goal of the controller at this point is to be cable of maintaining a .05 ph deadband, or a range of 5.75 to 5.85 for a setpoint of 5.8.

The testing phase of the controller will really prove out the capabilities.
 
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