topping clones

G

gracious

Member
i dont see a lot online about topping clones.

1) to be clear - any place where a fanleaf comes off a stem can be turned into a 'top' or 'cola' but if they're not all the same height and light then it's gonna be an uneven and probably inefficient harvest - correct?

2) photo 'cut' - should i cut off the tops off my clones to make a main stem or LST the two weird tops that are already there?

3) photos 'test1' and 'test2' - i did one from seed and have topped it - but i might have done it too early because i didnt see the two tiny leafs you're supposed to leave behind. should i cut down another level to where these leaves are present or just hope for the best that they pop up?

thanks!
 

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Skybound420

Skybound420

Well-Known Member
When topping plants grown from seed, they grow straight up producing side branches evenly, so when you top, you force the plant to then identify the upmost branches equally and they they grow out and up at an even pace, and after a time, you top each of those to produce 4 even tops. Then 8, then 16 and you keep doubling out as long as the plant continues to grow out the side branches evenly, but as soon as the side branches alternate (alternating nodes), the growth can no longer be divided evenly.

So when topping plants that are growing alternating nodes (which most clones grow), it's pointless to top a plant with the intent of dividing the growth energy (hormones called "auxins") because there will always be a branch higher than the others. So if you cut off the top most node, it will stall upward growth for a few days, but eventually the node just below the topmost one that you cut will be identified as the terminal shoot and the auxins will primarily flow to it and the plant will resume growing straight up.

Make no mistake, she will continue growing side branches, and each of those will grow more sides, and all together will result in many tops, but if I understand your underlying question(s) on this topic, you're wanting to increase the area of the canopy, but you're pretty much out of the growth characteristics to produce such a canopy.

You can cheat the biology a bit by cutting the topmost site which will buy some time for side branches to get longer, and over time of repeating that process to halt upward growth you can build out the canopy to make a short wide plant, it will take more time than it would if you were growing a plant from seed.
 
BurnzyBurnz

BurnzyBurnz

Well-Known Member
Skybound420 said:
When topping plants grown from seed, they grow straight up producing side branches evenly, so when you top, you force the plant to then identify the upmost branches equally and they they grow out and up at an even pace, and after a time, you top each of those to produce 4 even tops. Then 8, then 16 and you keep doubling out as long as the plant continues to grow out the side branches evenly, but as soon as the side branches alternate (alternating nodes), the growth can no longer be divided evenly.

So when topping plants that are growing alternating nodes (which most clones grow), it's pointless to top a plant with the intent of dividing the growth energy (hormones called "auxins") because there will always be a branch higher than the others. So if you cut off the top most node, it will stall upward growth for a few days, but eventually the node just below the topmost one that you cut will be identified as the terminal shoot and the auxins will primarily flow to it and the plant will resume growing straight up.

Make no mistake, she will continue growing side branches, and each of those will grow more sides, and all together will result in many tops, but if I understand your underlying question(s) on this topic, you're wanting to increase the area of the canopy, but you're pretty much out of the growth characteristics to produce such a canopy.

You can cheat the biology a bit by cutting the topmost site which will buy some time for side branches to get longer, and over time of repeating that process to halt upward growth you can build out the canopy to make a short wide plant, it will take more time than it would if you were growing a plant from seed.
Click to expand...
Very helpful. I was just wondering the same thing. Great to know. I have 3 week old clones and was wondering if I could top these... Do you think it's okay ?
 

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Skybound420

Skybound420

Well-Known Member
BurnzyBurnz said:
Very helpful. I was just wondering the same thing. Great to know. I have 3 week old clones and was wondering if I could top these... Do you think it's okay ?
Click to expand...
You could definitely top them, it just won't result in as good of a result as if the plant were fresh from seed. From seed 1 top produces 2, 2 produce 4, 4-8, 8-16. Topping plants with alternating nodes just stops growth at that point, but then the next lowest set is the new top. I go through this every time as I clone out as well. At some point, you're fighting the upward growth to force more outward.

Edit- I would wait before topping the 3 weekers. Let them go to 6-8 weeks before topping, but if you're in a really short space, you might have to stop the up growth sooner. Calculate the height you have in bloom, and don't let the canopy exceed half that during veg.
 
G

gracious

Member
Skybound420 said:
You could definitely top them, it just won't result in as good of a result as if the plant were fresh from seed. From seed 1 top produces 2, 2 produce 4, 4-8, 8-16. Topping plants with alternating nodes just stops growth at that point, but then the next lowest set is the new top. I go through this every time as I clone out as well. At some point, you're fighting the upward growth to force more outward.

Edit- I would wait before topping the 3 weekers. Let them go to 6-8 weeks before topping, but if you're in a really short space, you might have to stop the up growth sooner. Calculate the height you have in bloom, and don't let the canopy exceed half that during veg.
Click to expand...
i think im getting the hang of it - time to start trainining the smaller shoots today and tmrw - i let the bottom shoots get away from me on the far right so i think ill just LST them at this point too
 

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BurnzyBurnz

BurnzyBurnz

Well-Known Member
Skybound420 said:
You could definitely top them, it just won't result in as good of a result as if the plant were fresh from seed. From seed 1 top produces 2, 2 produce 4, 4-8, 8-16. Topping plants with alternating nodes just stops growth at that point, but then the next lowest set is the new top. I go through this every time as I clone out as well. At some point, you're fighting the upward growth to force more outward.

Edit- I would wait before topping the 3 weekers. Let them go to 6-8 weeks before topping, but if you're in a really short space, you might have to stop the up growth sooner. Calculate the height you have in bloom, and don't let the canopy exceed half that during veg.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I will wait. I just did a repot today of all 4. I will let them settle in for the next couple weeks and than I'll top. Because yes they get tall.
 
Skybound420

Skybound420

Well-Known Member
BurnzyBurnz said:
Thanks. I will wait. I just did a repot today of all 4. I will let them settle in for the next couple weeks and than I'll top. Because yes they get tall.
Click to expand...
I forgot about FIMing. Perhaps you should consider the suggestion by @OldMedUser ? FIM stands for "Fuck, I Missed" and refers to an attempt at topping, but the likely super stoned grower snipped just a bit high up and snipped the node head in half. FIM cutting produces a grouping of branches that are generally greater than 2 in count. I wish I seen this post last night because I just "tipped" my 2 clones in veg yesterday. Because mine are also mature and the nodes alternate, my cuts won't double the branch counts now as is preferred when topping. I just did it to stall the up growth so the lowers and sides can grow out some and sort of fill out the canopy. That said, as soon as vertical growth re-commences, bet your bottom dollar I will be FIMing in the future in effort to produce more branches.

Thanks for the tip @OldMedUser !!!
 
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