Too much light? Or not enough something?

Vitals:

-Ace seeds Bangi Haze
-Flower week 7 of 10
-Coco DTW
-H&G coco base with a small dose of Top Shooter, normal Drip Clean, small dose of Bud XL. 1025 ppm.
- 330 watts of Timber Cobs 20” away from tops (I can crank it up to 600 watts but my last 2 grows convinced me to work my way up)

What’s going on here? The tops are yellowing from tips inward. The middle of the plant is good. The lower end of the plant had an early mag def but has been recovering after increasing base nutes.

Thats a really weird leaf pattern. I was going to say nitrogen but it usually goes from outwards in, not inwards out like your leaves.

You also have some nute burn on the tips.

I'm wondering if it might be pH related?

How much per litre of each are you using?

Chronic underwatering could cause leaf tips like that too.
How much do they get in what size pot?

I cant see it been related to the light.

A run off test could be useful.

Try raising that light about a foot.

The ph going in is 5.7-5.9 measured by a pen meter calibrated weekly. My base nutes are at 7.5ml per gallon which is the recommended dose. The Nute burn on the lower tips was from an early introduction of H&G Bud XL at half strength, I quickly backed that down to 25% or about 1ml per gallon (3.8ml/gal recomended). I have been using Top Shooter at 1ml/gal (2.8ml/gal recomended).

The runoff at week 5 was coming out with 50-70 less ppms than was going in. Thats what prompted me to start adding the Bud XL and burned the tips of the big fan leafs.
The plant is in a 5/gal equivalent Air Pot, which was set up to hold half its volume. When this turned into the only viable female seed (out of 6), I improvised by filling a fabric pot with coco and perlite mix, and dropping the airpot right in. The roots wove into the added media seamlessly, and I was back in action. It gets 2 waterings per day at this point with a generous runoff.

The only reason my base nutes got that high, was because the plant kept asking for Cal/Mag, and the base is the only place in the product line that provides it. The guys at the hydro shop are saying to back off the base and supplement with cal/mag or mag/sulfur. Im inclined to agree with that assessment, although it deviates from the product line which is supposed to have balanced these things out in a laboratory.

Joint Monster said:

I was going to say nitrogen but it usually goes from outwards in, not inwards out like your leaves.

You also have some nute burn on the tips.

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They are super dark green too, that also points to nitrogen no?

Just looked up top shooter, never heard of it and it's sounds kind of crazy lol.

House & Garden Top Shooter forces your plants into starting a new flowering cycle after the regular cycle has stopped, significantly increasing the fruit's total weight. Use Top Shooter at the end of the flowering period for the last three weeks. Adjust your base nutrient to EC-Value of 1.2. Prepare your nutrient container by first adding your base nutrient to the water container. Dilute top shooter in a small amount of warm water and stir well, then add to your nutrient reservoir. Only use Top Shooter when your plants are sufficiently healthy, it is a VERY STRONG agent that requires a lot from your plant.

You could be hitting it too hard with something, its not N def , its got a lot yet takes on a dark hue with no shine (excess mag?) If your plant kept asking for cal/mag I feel you should have used a separate bottle for adjustment to help minimize the CA/MG antagonizing effect that comes with upping the p/k values.

Also, you've got more than 3 weeks left.

iGrowCandy said:

Vitals:

-Ace seeds Bangi Haze
-Flower week 7 of 10
-Coco DTW
-H&G coco base with a small dose of Top Shooter, normal Drip Clean, small dose of Bud XL. 1025 ppm.
- 330 watts of Timber Cobs 20” away from tops (I can crank it up to 600 watts but my last 2 grows convinced me to work my way up)

What’s going on here? The tops are yellowing from tips inward. The middle of the plant is good. The lower end of the plant had an early mag def but has been recovering after increasing base nutes.

Click to expand...

So basically your dumping over a 1000ppm on a haze in coco twice a day to generous runoff under a 330 watt light.

Your a new member are you a new grower??
/Taking into account that its a haze buds seem small although you say there is three weeks left.....you could have more weeks than that as the plant tells when its done not the calendar.
.
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.I say your too hot with the nutes. maybe drop it down to 800 ..you are in coco not the best choice for a new grower (if you are) although coco likes to get watered alot maybe your watering too much (to generous runoff)

Turn that light the fuck up as high as it can go if that is 600 then its 600 your light is weak, yeah you got the led cobb shit so does that 330 watts the same 330 watts as what i use to veg little plants. ...And your trying to flower with it????

Wouldnt act on or care about the few leaves that are yellow too much right now.

Get a microbe product

Bernie420 said:

So basically your dumping over a 1000ppm on a haze in coco twice a day to generous runoff under a 330 watt light.

Your a new member are you a new grower??
/Taking into account that its a haze buds seem small although you say there is three weeks left.....you could have more weeks than that as the plant tells when its done not the calendar.
.
.
.I say your too hot with the nutes. maybe drop it down to 800 ..you are in coco not the best choice for a new grower (if you are) although coco likes to get watered alot maybe your watering too much (to generous runoff)

Turn that light the fuck up as high as it can go if that is 600 then its 600 your light is weak, yeah you got the led cobb shit so does that 330 watts the same 330 watts as what i use to veg little plants. ...And your trying to flower with it????

Wouldnt act on or care about the few leaves that are yellow too much right now.

Get a microbe product

Click to expand...

So, this is probably my 8th or 9th indoor grow, with 3 outdoor grows of variable success rates. I have not kept journals although I hope to start at some point. I believe that genetic purists have noted elsewhere that Banghi Haze does not actually contain "Haze" genetics, so it is not quite ultra Sativa. I always have it in the back of my head that PPM's should not exceed watts. Whether that means "Light watts" or "Total Watts" is something I constantly battle with. I didnt want to throw 1000ppm's at it but coco based nutes are thick. If I ran this line at 100% I would be at 1500 PPM's on the .5 scale. I think coco nutes are thicker to account for a hand off at the elemental level. I believe a good deal of those ppm's stick to the coco and are not taken up by the plant. I was hoping to work this grow up to the 600 watt potential, rather than just throwing the light at it. My last 2 grows have gone a bit sideways in that respect, although they were a different strain and in RDWC. I have no doubt that I would burn holes in the fan leaves if I threw all 600W at this point.

After consulting with the boys at the hydro store, I decided to drop the base to 5ml/gal and supplement the first 60ppm's of RO water with Mag/Sulfur AKA Sweet, and hold steady on supplements and light until we have some new data.

iGrowCandy said:

So, this is probably my 8th or 9th indoor grow, with 3 outdoor grows of variable success rates. I have not kept journals although I hope to start at some point. I believe that genetic purists have noted elsewhere that Banghi Haze does not actually contain "Haze" genetics, so it is not quite ultra Sativa. I always have it in the back of my head that PPM's should not exceed watts. Whether that means "Light watts" or "Total Watts" is something I constantly battle with. I didnt want to throw 1000ppm's at it but coco based nutes are thick. If I ran this line at 100% I would be at 1500 PPM's on the .5 scale. I think coco nutes are thicker to account for a hand off at the elemental level. I believe a good deal of those ppm's stick to the coco and are not taken up by the plant. I was hoping to work this grow up to the 600 watt potential, rather than just throwing the light at it. My last 2 grows have gone a bit sideways in that respect, although they were a different strain and in RDWC. I have no doubt that I would burn holes in the fan leaves if I threw all 600W at this point.

After consulting with the boys at the hydro store, I decided to drop the base to 5ml/gal and supplement the first 60ppm's of RO water with Mag/Sulfur AKA Sweet, and hold steady on supplements and light until we have some new data.

Click to expand...

yup i do and have said that you shouldn't go over ppms compared to the watts of the lights.
You have to turn it up you cant just wait till the last week and turn it up to 600 and say oh boy I did it.. Growing a plant and trying to get shit done means it takes time and you have to have the time and light for the plant to grow.

Your last grow wasn't hurt by turning up the light unless you had the light too close.

I believe a good deal of those ppm's stick to the coco and are not taken up by the plant. NO! I wouldnt say stick I would say introduced to the growing medium and if it doesnt touch the roots it isnt going to get taken up by the plant that's is why you need microbes that go out and harvest what the plant wants and gets it for the plant ...learn what microbes do!!!!!! And if you had a microrizia population going on as well then you would be even better off but it takes time to get that going.

and the boys at the hydro store are there to sell you something. In this case it was sweet or they could of just told you to go to the grocery store store and get some epsom salt or even better a garden store..... joes or home dipshit or my nards and get a big bag of epsom salts cheaper than a grocery store.

You need to drop your ppm's to 800 and get a microbe product going once a week water a bit less ...you can water your microbe population right out of the pot in the waste water so no to generous runoff and hold steady till new data comes in. and turn the light up/// raise it up if you have to.

And you dont run a nutrient line at 100 percent 3/4 strength max to a healthy happy plant. or you'll be wasting it


supplement the first 60ppm's of RO water with Mag/Sulfur AKA Sweet
this makes no sense too me.

iGrowCandy said:

. I always have it in the back of my head that PPM's should not exceed watts. Whether that means "Light watts" or "Total Watts" is something I constantly battle with.

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Then why are you leaving the light at 300 and giving over 1000 ppms of nutes???

Makes no sense

turn light up lower ppms down to 800

starting with r/o water with a ppm of 10 of course. a horse of course

I’ve dropped the base nutes down to 5ml/gal and supplemented with Botanicare Sweet Raw which is straight mag/sulphur at 8ml/gal. PPM’s are now coming in at just under 800. I’ve increased light about half of its remaining capacity which is around 450 watts. This top looks like it appreciated the change. If it continues well over the next few days, I’ll feed it more light. I don’t want to change the watering frequency until I get a feel for how the increased lighting affects its water consumption. For microbes, I have been keeping a rotation of Mammoth P cultures from a free sample I got a while back. I don’t have a scientific way of measuring the dose, I just pour the jar in the res, and transfer a few drops to start the next culture.

What space is your light lighting up? Just out of curiosity.

coreywebster said:

What space is your light lighting up? Just out of curiosity.

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Secret Jardin DR120 47”x47”x80”.

iGrowCandy said:

Secret Jardin DR120 47”x47”x80”.

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Then yeah you want to be running 480w-600w with that light in that space.

Though I think there some nutrient issues going on too. Weird plants man..

Forget the 10 weeks they claim it takes to flower. If you're on week 7 now you have five or six more to go for that to be finished. You're making things way too complicated and are just randomly throwing stuff at your plants. Stop listening to the guys at the hydro store. It's coco. It should be simple. Use a decent nute and call it a day.

xtsho said:

Use a decent nute and call it a day.

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Yeah adding a random amount of something is probably not the best way to proceed!

iGrowCandy said:

Vitals:

-Ace seeds Bangi Haze
-Flower week 7 of 10
-Coco DTW
-H&G coco base with a small dose of Top Shooter, normal Drip Clean, small dose of Bud XL. 1025 ppm.
- 330 watts of Timber Cobs 20” away from tops (I can crank it up to 600 watts but my last 2 grows convinced me to work my way up)

What’s going on here? The tops are yellowing from tips inward. The middle of the plant is good. The lower end of the plant had an early mag def but has been recovering after increasing base nutes.

Click to expand...

This is caused by heat with intense light, either light too close, and or too higher temps, probably a bit of both, they are basically fox tailing.

yields can be very good lower down but those fox tail tips take forever to finish, if ever, and arent dense enough to come to much as too fluffy.

lower light intensity and heat in the last 2 weeks of flower

All and all its not a bad sign really.some strains are more prone to this than others.

For the sake of closure I'll update this thread...

Ultimately, my problems with this grow stemmed from a combination of not enough light and too frequent watering. The nutrient strength was too high as well, but most strains I have worked with can overcome the latter as long as it's not insanely over strength.
I had to deal with a fungus nat issue (overwatering), and a loss of foliage due to my knee jerk reaction to cut ppms down to 300. Once I dealt with the nats (neem oil medium saturation), and reduced watering frequency to once every 1.5 light cycles at 550ppm under 600watts (with co2) the plants made an excellent recovery and began to bolt again.... However by week 12 I had enough and pulled the plug as the plant was prioritizing growth over tricome production and starting to produce pollen. Overall marking this grow in my failure column, although I did get some smooth smoking medicinal quality herb, and learned a few lessons along the way.