To create a star...

Godkas

Well-Known Member
This is my first real attempt at forming a lesson plan so bear with me while I try to divulge this information as best I can. Hopefully this will help someone.

Ok So I figured an easy way to help shed some light on lumens and spectrum (pardon the pun) in regards to healthy plant growth would be to base a study on what we know works.

------------------------------------
The Sun:

As we all know plants grow and bloom in natural sunlight as well as indoor lighting. However if you believe in the theory of evolution you must assume that plants were conceived under the sun and are built to do everything they need to do off of the sun and its specific light spectrum. Some of which we normally re-create in the lighting of plants and some that we dont.

----------------------------------------------
Facts on the sun: (derived from calculations)

Through the inverse square law (Yes its real)
Lumens divided by (distance squared) equals lumens per square foot putting distance into account.

In the case of the sun I ran the calculations. We know the sun delivers 10,000 lumens per square foot on earth roughly 120w of light. We also know the sun is 92,950,000 miles away which is 490,776,000,000 feet away. This means that the sun produces 115,476,705,882,353 watts and 9,815,520,000,000,000 lumens respectively (yes i know big numbers eh? Go figure)

Anyways:
9,815,520,000,000,000 / 981,552,000,000 = 10,000 lumens per square foot (nifty huh?)


So we know how much light is required. Lets take a look at the suns spectrum.

--------------------------------------------
Photospheric Composition of the Sun:(Wikipedia.com)

Hydrogen | 73.46 %
Helium | 24.85 %
Oxygen | 0.77 %
Carbon | 0.29 %
Iron | 0.16 %
Sulphur | 0.12 %
Neon | 0.12 %
Nitrogen | 0.09 %
Silicon | 0.07 %
Magnesium | 0.05 %

As we can see the main elements in the sun are hydrogen and helium making up 98.31% of the sun. Different elements produce different spectrums of light. The diagram below illustrates the suns spectrum as well as hydrogen and helium (the other elements are just part of the diagram)

(Bohrs)


As you can see the light produced by Hydrogen and Helium are as follows:

(in nanometers)
Hydrogen: 656nm, 486nm, 434nm, & 410nm
Helium: 667nm, 587nm, 501nm, 492nm, 471nm, 447nm, 402nm

I took the liberty of overlapping hydrogen and helium here:



Now stop here. I have an image of a PAR(Photosynthetic Active Radiation) spectrum. Compare the two and use the origional diagram for reference if you need to.



When compared to the H(hydrogen) + He(helium) spectrums:

Red: (667nm,656nm)
Yellow: (587nm)
Blue: (501nm,492nm,486nm,471nm,447nm,434nm,410nm,& 402nm)

All of the color temperatures occur in peak instances of the PAR diagram. So we know plants are tuned to utilize the specific spectrums that the sun produces via its major contents.

Kelvin is a temperature scale that is the same as celsius but it uses absolute zero as zero. 0 kelvin = -273.15 celsius. It is also a color temperature reading that the lighting industry uses to rate their bulbs however to find where your bulbs match you will have to match the colors over as best you can. Some manufacturers give you a spectrograph on the packaging but I think I'm going to have to make a spectroscope and find out for myself.

(Coming Soon)
---------------------------------------
Section 2:

Comparison common light sources, their spectrums, and correlation to PAR activity.
 

psyfiend

Well-Known Member
Very good start for those wishing to get a bit deeper into the physics of growing. I suppose a next step would be to prove how the grow bulbs we use relate to the sun's photo properties and in turn how that affects plants.
 

fnord

Active Member
very good info. I hope the thread continues to grow.

Of course, it makes sense that plants would have evolved to best utilize the most abundant spectra (H and He).

now if we can just get good spectrum data on various bulbs, we can carry it further and see how they mimic the sun and their efficiencies as they do so.

also, we need to relate the natural spectrum to how a plant utilizes different parts of the light for different functions during it's life cycle, and carry that back to the data on the bulbs.

please do keep this going. this will be quite interesting to me, combining physics and math with my new hobby :-)
 

lando421

Well-Known Member
GK I love you.

I hope I had some influence in the creation of this thread with my question the other day, what I called the "k" business and determining what lights are what spectrum and so on.

clap clap clap, excellent work.
 

Godkas

Well-Known Member
Very good start for those wishing to get a bit deeper into the physics of growing. I suppose a next step would be to prove how the grow bulbs we use relate to the sun's photo properties and in turn how that affects plants.
You might be appalled at the actual coverage "grow bulbs" give towards the actual required light spectrum. Its pretty scant from what I've run across in my studies. Another problem is the spectrums actually differ on bulbs of the same kelvin rating (though spectral analysis charts are somehow near impossible to find) Kinda seems like they dont want us knowing they are taking our money and giving us an inferior product.

also, we need to relate the natural spectrum to how a plant utilizes different parts of the light for different functions during it's life cycle, and carry that back to the data on the bulbs.
Great input here. I will get on this today as it seems like the next viable step. Was kind of in a mental block on my next article in this series.

I hope I had some influence in the creation of this thread with my question the other day, what I called the "k" business and determining what lights are what spectrum and so on.
Well this has to do with everyone who has ever had a lighting question. This will hopefully help those who might not think they need to know this.

FYI: I'm not saying people who are using lights that dont produce ample spectrum coverage are dumb or new. Many people get tied up in the hype of certain technologies and I will try my very hardest to present information in the most un-biased way I can. Lighting is completely up to the grower in the long run and all I can do is lend advice and statistics.
 

Godkas

Well-Known Member
I will be updating this thread soon with section 2 and more data. I am having a little trouble gathering materials but for the mean time here is a link to instructions on how to build a simple spectroscope.

If you do decide to test your light sources please post your spectral analysis here so we can compare.

Link: How To Make a Spectroscope

Any help to finish my study would be greatly appreciated.
 

Godkas

Well-Known Member
^BuMpiTy^

I will have to start work on this again. I've been completely swamped with school.
 

tleaf jr.

Well-Known Member
u got a good point but u gotta think yhey are breeding plants to bea able to grow under al light as well as would under the sun
 

Godkas

Well-Known Member
u got a good point but u gotta think yhey are breeding plants to bea able to grow under al light as well as would under the sun
They dont need to be bred to grow under light. As long as its in the right spectrum and of high enough lumens it'll grow just the same is the point im driving at I guess.
 

tleaf jr.

Well-Known Member
i know but some plants are bred to grow with less lumens than the sun and they do just as good as the sun
 

tleaf jr.

Well-Known Member
yeah but you know when you go on webswites that ship plants and they say better inside also my uncle grew a mom outside and gave me 9 seeds so i grew 4 outside and 4 inside and the insides got huge like 6' and the outside got like 3'and this iz was at the beginnig of the summer
 

tleaf jr.

Well-Known Member
but you know when have mama plant grown inside and u sex them the seeds will proably do better inside like thier mom but i guessits differs strains
 

Godkas

Well-Known Member
I know some strains are pretty finiky and require special environment to reach their full potential.
 

Godkas

Well-Known Member
I don't follow. This thread is about the lighting not the environment. And whats the argument about anyway with this information you can grow both indoor.
 

Godkas

Well-Known Member
It happens :)

Strains that thrive in indoor environments still recognize light in the same wavelengths their limiting factor is our ability to give them ample levels of the correct spectrum of light.
 
Top