To Cooltube or to not cooltube

7th1der

7th1der

Well-Known Member
Landragon said:
Kudos for not feeling beat up and responding to my post with eloquence and candor.

As for elaboration, the internal reflector offers very poor spread and near useless angles unless being used in the most constricted spaces, as you seem to be doing. They cool amazingly, such is why you get away with a 600 in there. The external batwing is worlds better than the internal sleeve, but still poses problems. Much of the light must pass through glass, hit metal bounce back through glass, gets partialy blocked by the arc-tube andthen passes through glass again. This cuts overall light quite a bit, and uv-b completely in the zones most effected. It's tough to wrap ones head around my verbal diagram I know. In my tests, the bakearound blocked 30% more red than the true hydro tubes and 12% more blue.

By all means, the cooltube has it's place. I think it holds great promise for small vertical applications.

I spoke with the engineers at Soler & Palau fans about the temp range I intended to run through their fans. Their stand was the max of 140•F was to insure the permanently lubricated bearing was not damaged. They said it would take a while at 140•F to damage anything, more like around 180•F for sustained periods. Their response about 120•F was to chuckle. I figured that was all I needed.

Cool air is more dense,and therefore gives more "bite" to the impeller. But this is negligble in the range we deal with. My 400 raise the air from 73•F to 88•F. When I also ducted my exhaust fan over to my veg side as well which uses 365 watts, the temp goes to 95•F. We aren't dealng with simar situation to "high and dry" for helicopters.

I tested using a crude but reasonably effective method to determine my fans pull better. I got a big card board box. I cut 100 2" holes all over it. I then cut visqueen to size of each panel. Next I taped all visqueen panels to form a "box bag". I inserted boxbag into big box, mounted a 6" flange and got super high. Then my girlfrien came home saw my contraption in the living room and just went in the bedroom shaking her head. Finaly I hooked a sixteen foot length of insulated Thermoflo brand duct to each side of the fan. The box went in the kitchen and my fanaconda stretched across my home. First the push, then the pull. The fan was turned on and the duct fitted over the flange. Stopwatch engaged right then by other half, and turned off when bag filled box. Similar test to deflate. Deflation was 15% quicker.
Click to expand...

Dude, if you removed the grass mask and was one of these guys.... it wouldn't surprise me! lol


​
 
GypsyBush

GypsyBush

Well-Known Member
7th1der said:
I got a copy of that! I was trynna kill 2 birds with one 6" Soler & Palau fan. But If I just get a 4" fan, you think I can use one of these 70 CFM PC Fan's to exhaust into the carbon filter?
Click to expand...
I started with an 80 cfm 4" duct fan.... not enough guts...

I upgraded to a 6" fan 424CFM and added a carbon filter... I am happy with that...

So to recap my tent set-up...

I have a 4" 170 cfm centrifugal fan for the cool tube...

and a 6" 424 cfm centrifugal fan for the filter/exhaust...

Hope this helps...:-P

Gypsy...:eyesmoke:
 
Landragon

Landragon

Well-Known Member
I am neither of those guys nor do I know them. But there is a very real irony that had me cracking up.
And Gypsy I don't think you are a troll. I appreciate your willingness to learn more about what's in your closet.
 
GypsyBush

GypsyBush

Well-Known Member
Landragon said:
Kudos for not feeling beat up and responding to my post with eloquence and candor.
Click to expand...
Hey man.. we are all just people... and the net has the ability to remove any emotion from words.. making it really hard to judge someone's "tone of voice"...

Thanks You for taking the time, not only to do the tests, but for sharing the information... I am learning from you...

Thanks!!!:-P

Landragon said:
As for elaboration,
Click to expand...
Oh! Yeah! I've been waiting for this...lol...:bigjoint:

Landragon said:
the internal reflector offers very poor spread and near useless angles unless being used in the most constricted spaces, as you seem to be doing.
Click to expand...
Agreed...

Landragon said:
They cool amazingly, such is why you get away with a 600 in there.
Click to expand...
Agreed...

Landragon said:
The external batwing is worlds better than the internal sleeve, but still poses problems.
Click to expand...
Agreed...

But with that said, I know of no equipment, of any kind, that does not pose some sort of compromise...:wall:

Landragon said:
Much of the light must pass through glass, hit metal bounce back through glass, gets partialy blocked by the arc-tube andthen passes through glass again.
Click to expand...
Ok I see what you are saying.. and I know this is a crude drawing with zero scientific relevance, but I would like to believe that the reality lies somewhere in between....

By Al B. Fuct...



Landragon said:
This cuts overall light quite a bit, and uv-b completely in the zones most effected.
Click to expand...
I can see that...

Landragon said:
It's tough to wrap ones head around my verbal diagram I know.
Click to expand...
I follow you... you are a smart fellow... had to read it a few times but I got the jest of it.. I think...:eyesmoke:

Landragon said:
In my tests, the bakearound blocked 30% more red than the true hydro tubes and 12% more blue.
Click to expand...
I can see that too...

Landragon said:
By all means, the cooltube has it's place. I think it holds great promise for small vertical applications.
Click to expand...
WOW! I am almost feeling smart... I am agreeing with everything you say!!! lol...:lol:

Landragon said:
I spoke with the engineers at Soler & Palau fans about the temp range I intended to run through their fans. Their stand was the max of 140•F was to insure the permanently lubricated bearing was not damaged. They said it would take a while at 140•F to damage anything, more like around 180•F for sustained periods. Their response about 120•F was to chuckle. I figured that was all I needed.
Click to expand...
How can I argue with that... a chuckle from the guys that make and sell fans... :clap:

Landragon said:
Cool air is more dense,and therefore gives more "bite" to the impeller.
Click to expand...
Agreed...

Landragon said:
But this is negligble in the range we deal with.
Click to expand...
I can see why you would say that...

Landragon said:
My 400 raise the air from 73•F to 88•F. When I also ducted my exhaust fan over to my veg side as well which uses 365 watts, the temp goes to 95•F.
Click to expand...
Wait.. how do you have it set up???:confused:

Landragon said:
We aren't dealng with simar situation to "high and dry" for helicopters.
Click to expand...
Ok.. I see that.. the loss is irrelevant, but it is there...:wall:

Landragon said:
I tested using a crude but reasonably effective method to determine my fans pull better. I got a big card board box. I cut 100 2" holes all over it. I then cut visqueen to size of each panel. Next I taped all visqueen panels to form a "box bag". I inserted boxbag into big box, mounted a 6" flange and got super high. Then my girlfrien came home saw my contraption in the living room and just went in the bedroom shaking her head. Finaly I hooked a sixteen foot length of insulated Thermoflo brand duct to each side of the fan. The box went in the kitchen and my fanaconda stretched across my home. First the push, then the pull. The fan was turned on and the duct fitted over the flange. Stopwatch engaged right then by other half, and turned off when bag filled box. Similar test to deflate. Deflation was 15% quicker.
Click to expand...
WOW!... That's cool!!!

7th1der said:
Dude, if you removed the grass mask and was one of these guys.... it wouldn't surprise me! lol


​
Click to expand...
RIGHT?!?!?!:bigjoint:

Landragon said:
The irony in that statement would blow you guys away! Haha.
Click to expand...
oh oh...

7th1der said:
Alright! Shhhhhhhhhhhh.......That's enough! We must remain anonymous, remember? But are those guys stoners?
Click to expand...
Uh... who am I...? Operator can you trace this call and tell me where I am at????:lol:


Landragon said:
I am neither of those guys nor do I know them. But there is a very real irony that had me cracking up.
Click to expand...
I was getting worried I was going to end up with mentos activated pop in my connection...lol....:lol:


Landragon said:
And Gypsy I don't think you are a troll. I appreciate your willingness to learn more about what's in your closet.
Click to expand...
Cool Man.. Thanks for all the insight...

That is why I am here... to learn... and have fun...

Thanks Again...

Gypsy...:joint::peace:
 
Landragon

Landragon

Well-Known Member
My closet has a room built of foamboard inside it making a 6x2x6 and a 2x2x6 space segregated feom each other light and air wise. I have my can 66 carbon filter in a duct board box serving as a manifold. Box sits on top of closet. One 6" hole goes down to bloom room on left, one 4" home goes to veg room on right. Veg room is full of t5ho, one 65w linear power compact, and a 250 mh. Hepa filtered air inlet on veg side down low on door. Air intake for bloom room reflector located far left on top of closet. This runs from a vortex 460cfm fan pulling from the carbon filter. Bloom room has it's own hepa filter intake down low in middle of front. This feeds a light trap which allows air to enter down low and to the right of bloom room. 4" mixvent ,are you ready for it ....... PUSHES through a can 5000 filter located on top of box. It had to be located there since my light mover has no clearance with it in the room since my girls got tall. I know im a fat stinking hypocrite. This takes any built up heat and brings in fresh air to flowers. Also adds odor reducing redundancy. Any air expelled from can 5000 gets sucked into can 66. House at 73•f bloom room at 74.6•f, veg room at 76.4•f. Air inside manifold at 92.1•f as tested 20 minutes ago.
 
GypsyBush

GypsyBush

Well-Known Member
Woow... now that's gonna take a minute to digest...:eyesmoke:

Here is picture of one of miniatures for your enjoyment...



 
Landragon

Landragon

Well-Known Member
I think that drawing was from the cooltube/adjustawing thread right? This holds the best promise I think. Local growshop is gonna carry some for a big customer and I asked to get in on the buy. I got three family birthday coming this next month and won't be buying myself any presents till February. I just saw on another thread about a clear plastic tube being sold by htg. If this is acrylic it will be eminently better than glass at light transmission though still block uv-b. I think acrylic(if that's what they're using) and an adjustawing would be pretty effective.

But, the law of inverse square dictates the way light will behave as it travels further away from source.Only a reflector located in extremely close proximity to the light source will truly maximize directed light. Unfortunately, when you get a reflector that can throw a majority of the emitted light AROUND the tube instead of back through it, and you are already adding 12-18" of additional distance. There is only one company I know of making close proximity reflectors. They rock. Though their air cooling system leaves a bit to be desired.
 
D

DaGambler

Well-Known Member
Landragon said:
I get to be the mad scientist my momma always feared I'd become.
Click to expand...
i love when people actually test shite out. makes it so much easier for me to beleive what they are saying.

i've been so impressed with some of the vertical results that i've been reading about that i've been split between 6" vented hoods and an external winged cooltube. since electricity is more of a concern than space, i'll probably go Flat again (and i hate the idea of losing lumens from poor reflectivity)... but those stadium setups look pretty cool, for which a cooltube (from HTG) would be the shiz-nit. i hate making decisions.
 
fat sam

fat sam

Well-Known Member
yeah good call on the cooltube, im doing the tent thing and heat is always a concern, you got to keep the air moving in those things or they heat up quick
 
J

Jtoth3ustin

Well-Known Member
im sorry i didnt read. but.... its not whether to get a cooltube. its whether you can afford cooltube... always get a cooltube over a normal hood...
 
Landragon

Landragon

Well-Known Member
DaGambler said:
i love when people actually test shite out. makes it so much easier for me to beleive what they are saying.

i've been so impressed with some of the vertical results that i've been reading about that i've been split between 6" vented hoods and an external winged cooltube. since electricity is more of a concern than space, i'll probably go Flat again (and i hate the idea of losing lumens from poor reflectivity)... but those stadium setups look pretty cool, for which a cooltube (from HTG) would be the shiz-nit. i hate making decisions.
Click to expand...

If plant numbers were no concern in my state, I'd go vertical. In a heartbeat.
 
Landragon

Landragon

Well-Known Member
Jtoth3ustin said:
im sorry i didnt read. but.... its not whether to get a cooltube. its whether you can afford cooltube... always get a cooltube over a normal hood...
Click to expand...

Well, from the tests I ran, cooltubes perform best in tight, cramped spaces. Start to open up more than 20" away in any direction and their spread is so uneven they become problematic. Basicaly a 40" x 30" rectangle a it. Any larger and the ends and corners are dim.

So I guess the most diplomatic (as well as most run on sentencey) answer the original question is : if you want to cram excessive light into a small grow cab or tent and maximize cooling, get a cooltube, but don't make one out of bakearound, but if you want to grow using more conservative watt/sqft ratios, and in a larger space or one you can cool otherwise, get an open hood or a standard flow through reflector.
 
Picasso345

Picasso345

Well-Known Member
Landragon said:
Kudos for not feeling beat up and responding to my post with eloquence and candor.

As for elaboration, the internal reflector offers very poor spread and near useless angles unless being used in the most constricted spaces, as you seem to be doing. They cool amazingly, such is why you get away with a 600 in there. The external batwing is worlds better than the internal sleeve, but still poses problems. Much of the light must pass through glass, hit metal bounce back through glass, gets partialy blocked by the arc-tube andthen passes through glass again. This cuts overall light quite a bit, and uv-b completely in the zones most effected. It's tough to wrap ones head around my verbal diagram I know. In my tests, the bakearound blocked 30% more red than the true hydro tubes and 12% more blue.

By all means, the cooltube has it's place. I think it holds great promise for small vertical applications.

I spoke with the engineers at Soler & Palau fans about the temp range I intended to run through their fans. Their stand was the max of 140•F was to insure the permanently lubricated bearing was not damaged. They said it would take a while at 140•F to damage anything, more like around 180•F for sustained periods. Their response about 120•F was to chuckle. I figured that was all I needed.

Cool air is more dense,and therefore gives more "bite" to the impeller. But this is negligble in the range we deal with. My 400 raise the air from 73•F to 88•F. When I also ducted my exhaust fan over to my veg side as well which uses 365 watts, the temp goes to 95•F. We aren't dealng with simar situation to "high and dry" for helicopters.

I tested using a crude but reasonably effective method to determine my fans pull better. I got a big card board box. I cut 100 2" holes all over it. I then cut visqueen to size of each panel. Next I taped all visqueen panels to form a "box bag". I inserted boxbag into big box, mounted a 6" flange and got super high. Then my girlfrien came home saw my contraption in the living room and just went in the bedroom shaking her head. Finaly I hooked a sixteen foot length of insulated Thermoflo brand duct to each side of the fan. The box went in the kitchen and my fanaconda stretched across my home. First the push, then the pull. The fan was turned on and the duct fitted over the flange. Stopwatch engaged right then by other half, and turned off when bag filled box. Similar test to deflate. Deflation was 15% quicker.
Click to expand...
Very nice. It is so easy to decide we like something and then we find the facts that support that decision instead of looking at the facts first and then making a decision.

I appreciate it, great info.
 
Landragon

Landragon

Well-Known Member
Picasso345 said:
Very nice. It is so easy to decide we like something and then we find the facts that support that decision instead of looking at the facts first and then making a decision.

I appreciate it, great info.
Click to expand...
There is a phenomena whereby once a human has spent money on something, or feel like they have stumbled upon a great discovery, no facts an convince him or her of it's unworthiness.
 
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