Tis the season: bubblelicious and superskunk 400W grow
- Thread starter Kriegs
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Kriegs
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They've been growing straight-up in 12/12. I read up on this a fair bit before I decided to do it - a wide range of opinions out there on this practice.
But, the one consistent kernel that made sense to me was this: the performance of plants under straight 12/12 from seed is strain variable -- some like it and some don't. And that tracks back to how much sativa genetics are in there. So, superskunk with it's 75% sativa genetics should be a strain that can perform this way.
It's along the lines of sativa = tropical plant = near equator = a plant that is well-adapated to 12/12 cycles in nature.
So far, they seem to be proving me right. They're just a little over two weeks right now and I swear, the little buggers double every day. So far, they look real happy and healthy running this way. I love coming in every day and seeing how much they've put on. I don't think they're going to kick out some huge bonanza of bud, but it's a fun experiment and at the price of superskunk beans, what the hell?
Kriegs
Well-Known Member
The big girl is rolling along. She's kinda overwhelming that screen with her stretch. The thing just won't stop - I thought bubblelicious was a lower-growing plant. It's 45" above the soil and still adding 2-4" a day. I don't want to bend those three main branches in the middle, but I might have to. The buds are starting to fill in now.
The superskunks are showing sex. Two females, one male, and one sorta indeterminate, but I see what I think is a male preflower on that one. I'll take it. So what is that - showing sex in about 18 days..? But yeah, they'll be small.. but yummy. And that's 5 males out of 7 seeds so far, so the last three seeds must be female. Right, Nirvana?
I gave big momma a 1 tsp/gal feed of 30-10-10 to resolve her N deficiency. Looked better for a day or so, and now the big fans are back to fading again. Seems to call for more but, damn, I don't want to keep hitting her with this and that - that's how I fucked up last year. The feed was just Tues.. she couldn't possibly have used that up already?
Anyway.. a few pics. The big girl, some bud close-ups, and the two female superskunks. Also, a shot showing the contrast between the big fans, and healthy green leaves elsewhere.
The superskunks are showing sex. Two females, one male, and one sorta indeterminate, but I see what I think is a male preflower on that one. I'll take it. So what is that - showing sex in about 18 days..? But yeah, they'll be small.. but yummy. And that's 5 males out of 7 seeds so far, so the last three seeds must be female. Right, Nirvana?
I gave big momma a 1 tsp/gal feed of 30-10-10 to resolve her N deficiency. Looked better for a day or so, and now the big fans are back to fading again. Seems to call for more but, damn, I don't want to keep hitting her with this and that - that's how I fucked up last year. The feed was just Tues.. she couldn't possibly have used that up already?
Anyway.. a few pics. The big girl, some bud close-ups, and the two female superskunks. Also, a shot showing the contrast between the big fans, and healthy green leaves elsewhere.
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Kriegs
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Thanks.. much appreciated! It's all going pretty good. Got a little N deficiency in the big fans I'm trying to resolve. But it's all good.. she'll pay off either in spite of me or because of me. Check out the update if you have a moment. I noticed today that the trichs are starting to pop out..
Kriegs
Well-Known Member
Thanks, bud.. I'm getting a kick out of playing with all this stuff. Last year, I was way too worried about "upsetting my plants" to do anything more than feed and water them.. which I screwed up anyway..
The 12/12 superskunks are going into stretch now. The one might be one of those 12/12-from-seed plants that people point and laugh at, but the other looks like it could really turn out legit. But, way too early to judge either just yet.
I wish I could get this N deficiency turned around, but I'm not going to fight it too hard. She might just have a nasty fast-maturing streak in her -- I found milky and amber trichs already, and she just popped 'em a week ago. She's a crazy bitch for sure.
Hey Kriegs, just checking in to see how your grow's going, and for the most part all looks well.
I do have a question, though - I know you understand chemistry and plant biology 10X more then I do (and that's being generous), but I still feel like the empirical evidence of your grow would indicate that pH'ing your water would be beneficial.
I (admittedly) don't understand the science, but it seems like your grow is going through lots of nute deficiencies/lockouts, which (to me, anyways) would indicate a pH problem.
Anyways, that was a long-winded intro of me suggesting that perhaps an experiment that you could run would be to pH your water for some plants and give other plants your 8.0pH water, and see what happens?
Just my $.02, for what it's worth.
I do have a question, though - I know you understand chemistry and plant biology 10X more then I do (and that's being generous), but I still feel like the empirical evidence of your grow would indicate that pH'ing your water would be beneficial.
I (admittedly) don't understand the science, but it seems like your grow is going through lots of nute deficiencies/lockouts, which (to me, anyways) would indicate a pH problem.
Anyways, that was a long-winded intro of me suggesting that perhaps an experiment that you could run would be to pH your water for some plants and give other plants your 8.0pH water, and see what happens?
Just my $.02, for what it's worth.
Kriegs
Well-Known Member
Thanks, Bob...I appreciate the input.
Actually, I have been checking into my pH values - curiosity more than anything, but also cuz I get worried about how an isolated pot of soil holds up over the long, biologically active run of a grow. The 8.0 value I mentioned is what comes right out of the tap. After sitting out for at least 24 hours, it drops to 6.8 - 7.0 (a relatively recent discovery..). So even though it's treated with a chloramine process (which is supposed to be stable, and is why I thought it stayed at 8.0), it obviously still de-gasses something to cause the pH to drop. So, haha on me for thinking it was going in at 8.0..
The 30-10-10 I gave her the other day was right at 6.5. I've also been checking runoff, too -- dead on at 6.5.
My big girl is suffering a straight-up N deficiency. I've seen this before in a lot of other plants (non-MJ). She was perfect until she got a couple weeks into stretch, then she just exhausted the soil. My mistake, I think, was making a straight translation of last years' grow (very nute-sensitive sativas..) to this years (bubblelicious -- a hybrid with some unknown lineage, and much hungrier). Last year, I burned 'em up with too many nutes, and swung too conservative this year in response.
Part of the recalcitrance of the N deficiency in the big girl is just how N comes to us, the growers. As urea or ammonia -- both which have to be broken down first. A little bit of pure nitrate would fix that in a jiff.
The superskunks, I've surmised, just really didn't like starting in pre-ferted soil. The ones I re-started as 12/12-from-seed did their first week in a very cool 30-40-30 mix of seed starter/MG organic/perlite and they loved it. Now, they're in a ~50/50ish MG organic/MG pre-fert mix with some added perlite and mushroom compost, and they seem to really love that, too. No issues, and much more aggressive this go-round.
So, yeah, I still think my calculus holds up: being that slightly alkaline water is no match for the extensive acid buffering in potting soils. But, I'm checking into all possibilities and trying other approaches.
Cheers, bro.. thanks for checking in and raising the issue. I'm always happy to re-evaluate my assumptions...
Drella
Well-Known Member
crazy bitch for sure, good luck on dialing things in!Thanks, bud.. I'm getting a kick out of playing with all this stuff. Last year, I was way too worried about "upsetting my plants" to do anything more than feed and water them.. which I screwed up anyway..
The 12/12 superskunks are going into stretch now. The one might be one of those 12/12-from-seed plants that people point and laugh at, but the other looks like it could really turn out legit. But, way too early to judge either just yet.
I wish I could get this N deficiency turned around, but I'm not going to fight it too hard. She might just have a nasty fast-maturing streak in her -- I found milky and amber trichs already, and she just popped 'em a week ago. She's a crazy bitch for sure.
Kriegs
Well-Known Member
Yeah.. it's getting there. The big girl has had two feeds in the last ten days, so I'll just let it ride for awhile. I've got a much better understanding now of how the forms of N that you give influence uptake and the level of nute-burn risk you take on. Really, for deficiencies, you want nitrate (NO3-), and a lot of ferts have ZERO nitrate in them. Most are a combo of urea and ammonium N, which are slow-acting. I'm going to see if I can pick up some Dyna-Gro today -- their N fraction has a strong NO3- component to it. Both the FoliagePro and their "basic" 7-9-5 product. The FoliagePro will be great for the skunks just going into stretch; the other perfect for the remainder of flowering.
Overall, the big girl looks fantastic and I'm really not worried. Everything is so much better than last year's work. I'd just like to keep things clicking as tight as I can for yield, and for the learning it provides.
The little superskunks are doing great! They're starting to stretch now.. they should hit 1.5 to 2' when they're done. We're having mutual love for 12/12-from-seed so far. Got rid of the last male last night and then immediately said "doh!!" when I realized I could have grown him out and made some superskunk seeds... Damn! Should never make grow room decisions at the end of a long work day, I've found.
The 2nd pollination I did on the bubblelicious "took" -- I see the seeds forming. Yeah, baby...!
Since the soil layers crashed, I might take off those bottom 2-4 branches and just root them in water. Those things aren't going to produce anything down there anyway.. I know that's a slow-going method, but I'm in no hurry.
Some new pic's later.. thanks for dropping in. Appreciate your comments, and anything else folks want to offer...
Peace...
Kriegs
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A couple of pic's of the next generation of bubblelicious -- the pic's are the spots I fertilized. You can sorta see the swollen calyxes and retracted pistils - the hi-res camera had a dead battery; had to use the old camera. I thought my first attempt didn't take, but it did - the pistils just retracted slowly and never really turned brown - just got thinner and thinner. So, I've got two small "third tier" buds making seed - maybe 50-ish?
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Kriegs
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I can't believe how fast this thng is flowering out. I ran some sativa bagseeds last year and everything took forever. This bubblelicious is just steaming along.
Trichs are flushing out nicely; you can pick it up in the photos. Some dusty-lookin' buds in a few places now..
The stretch phase appears to be ending. She's steadily dropping in height-per-day additions; down to an inch now. The leveling off plus the feeds seem to have arrested the N deficiency - no new yellow leaves for the last couple days. The pics still have it in, but I removed the string trellis today. She's got the branch positions pretty well set now and it was interfering more than anything. I was a little late to the punch getting the SCROG set up - the top was already higher than the frame. But no biggee.. just remember that next time.
Trichs are flushing out nicely; you can pick it up in the photos. Some dusty-lookin' buds in a few places now..
The stretch phase appears to be ending. She's steadily dropping in height-per-day additions; down to an inch now. The leveling off plus the feeds seem to have arrested the N deficiency - no new yellow leaves for the last couple days. The pics still have it in, but I removed the string trellis today. She's got the branch positions pretty well set now and it was interfering more than anything. I was a little late to the punch getting the SCROG set up - the top was already higher than the frame. But no biggee.. just remember that next time.
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Kriegs
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Thanks, auto.. she was really leggy when she started; whole different plant now.wow you got TONS of budsites, how long are you planning the flower to take? or whats the recommended flower period anyways? very nice indeed .. hows she smellin?
The Nirvana site says 9-11 weeks on bubblelicious. This is the first time I got females of it... I figure it will be more like the "11" than the "9"; always is..
Really, the bubblelicious seems to have very little smell at this point. If you bump or shake her, it's really dank and skunky, but otherwise no.
SidV
Well-Known Member
The Bubblelicious probably won't have a bubblegum smell untill its ripe or probably even after a good cure.
Nice Plant Man
Kriegs
Well-Known Member
The Bubblelicious probably won't have a bubblegum smell untill its ripe or probably even after a good cure.
Nice Plant Man
Thanks, folks, for the compliments and interest. I'm getting pretty excited about this. When I first came up "5 outa 6" males, I was bummed. But now it's fun and a cool challenge to see what can be squeezed from one plant. Of course, I've got the two 12/12 superskunks in addition now, but that's kind of a "shits and grins" thing.
I didn't even think about the "bubblegum" smell/taste when asked - I was still thinking in old-school "stealth" terms. Old habits die hard!! But yeah, I've heard that, too -- if you get a bubblegum smell at all, it comes out late or after a good cure. Mostly, I want it to whack me in the head, but some bubblegum taste would be nice, too..!
Kriegs
Well-Known Member
Some DynaGro goodies I picked up on my lunch hour yesterday. The FoliagePro 9-3-6 will be my veg and stretch formula; the Liquid Grow 7-9-5 I will use as a bloom food.
These are chem's, so organic folks won't be impressed. But, if you're about plant performance and yield, you owe it to yourself to research this stuff. Or just go buy it. One thing that is very kickass about this stuff is their N fraction is dominated by nitrate N (NO3-) - the most easily assimilated N form there is. Slow-form N is fine in outdoor soil, but indoors in a pot the shit can build up on you too easy for my taste. And a lot of nute brands are still heavy on urea N, which can burn your root tips even when not in excess.
Recent controlled trials are showing that the P fraction is the dominant controller of internode spacing and plant height in both veg and stretch. More P = more spacing and more height. The 3-1-2 ratio is ideal for managing plants (any plant) toward high flower / fruit output and yield.
The superskunks are just going into stretch, so they got the FoliagePro last night at 50% strength. That's the way I'll roll with them once a week (unless I see any sign they don't like it) until they level off. It's too late to hit the big girl with it -- she's past that point.
These are chem's, so organic folks won't be impressed. But, if you're about plant performance and yield, you owe it to yourself to research this stuff. Or just go buy it. One thing that is very kickass about this stuff is their N fraction is dominated by nitrate N (NO3-) - the most easily assimilated N form there is. Slow-form N is fine in outdoor soil, but indoors in a pot the shit can build up on you too easy for my taste. And a lot of nute brands are still heavy on urea N, which can burn your root tips even when not in excess.
Recent controlled trials are showing that the P fraction is the dominant controller of internode spacing and plant height in both veg and stretch. More P = more spacing and more height. The 3-1-2 ratio is ideal for managing plants (any plant) toward high flower / fruit output and yield.
The superskunks are just going into stretch, so they got the FoliagePro last night at 50% strength. That's the way I'll roll with them once a week (unless I see any sign they don't like it) until they level off. It's too late to hit the big girl with it -- she's past that point.
Kriegs
Well-Known Member
Just a couple pic's of the 12/12-from-seed superskunks w/ flowers starting to pop. Curious as hell to see how these turn out. So far so good. Of course, they won't be "MJ trees", but they aren't going to be tiny, insignificant plants either. One is 11" now, the other 9"
I'd love to figure out 2-4 strains that work well this way, then run a bunch of plants lollipop style... grow up a little field of donkey dicks.. Mathematically, I could fit 48 plants under my 400W if they're in 6" square pots.. hmmmm.
The profiles of the whole plants can be seen in the last pic... the one-gal pots on the frame.
I'd love to figure out 2-4 strains that work well this way, then run a bunch of plants lollipop style... grow up a little field of donkey dicks.. Mathematically, I could fit 48 plants under my 400W if they're in 6" square pots.. hmmmm.
The profiles of the whole plants can be seen in the last pic... the one-gal pots on the frame.
