thinking of buying this soil coots mix no till

Amshif87

Well-Known Member
I think we all went through that phase! Lol. All the composting and soil building can be a lot of work at first but once you got a good system going it's easy (and dare I say even enjoyable when it's not too hot of a day out). And it makes the plants so much less work, it makes up for it. Plus it feels good not having to buy anything to fertilize your plants, just compost the waste your household and neighborhood generates.
You're absolutely right, once your no tils are cycled and you've started making or sourcing high quality compost, it's basically autopilot. It's nice to go hiking and picking horse tails or to clean the rabbit hutches and know that the only thing left to do for your plants is to top dress with what you just gathered. Automatic watering is almost a must for no tils in my opinion. I'd like to go blumats but I scored a pretty sweet drip irrigation set for $4 at good will that has a timer. Coupled with all of the drip irrigation pieces I've gathered from free piles at garage sales, I'll have to buy nothing else.
 

Amshif87

Well-Known Member
Agree that a good established soil will supply the plant with everything it needs (More so the plant will obtain what is needs through the microbiology) but as the mix is fresh there is no real fungi network built up in the soil. Wouldn't you think supplying the first couple bloom phases with some available P would benefit your plants that do not have a good relationship with a fully developed endo mycorrhizae network? It was my understanding a plant will obtain P in its available form from the mycos so without a good network established your plant may have problems obtaining all the P it needs.
So I was looking back through the no till thread at GC trying to find coots recommendation for a home brew shop in Portland and i came upon what I'd read from him that talked about hi P in flower. I'm going to post his response here giving full credit to ClackamasCoot/LumperDawg/AgnesDawgz

"But to answer your phosphorus inquiry direct - no, I do not believe that hi-dosing with phosphorus serves any purpose other than to destroy much of your fungi microherds, throw the soil's CeC out of whack and fill the pockets of the cretins who own grow stores.

That's the nicest answer that I can come up with. The truth is much worse..."

Hopefully a mod will let me know if that's not cool to post.

I'm glad I found that because I felt like here was a good reason.

Stay safe and happy farming
 

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
So I was looking back through the no till thread at GC trying to find coots recommendation for a home brew shop in Portland and i came upon what I'd read from him that talked about hi P in flower. I'm going to post his response here giving full credit to ClackamasCoot/LumperDawg/AgnesDawgz

"But to answer your phosphorus inquiry direct - no, I do not believe that hi-dosing with phosphorus serves any purpose other than to destroy much of your fungi microherds, throw the soil's CeC out of whack and fill the pockets of the cretins who own grow stores.

That's the nicest answer that I can come up with. The truth is much worse..."

Hopefully a mod will let me know if that's not cool to post.

I'm glad I found that because I felt like here was a good reason.

Stay safe and happy farming
That's not even getting into peak phosphorus.


http://phosphorusfutures.net/the-phosphorus-challenge/the-story-of-phosphorus-8-reasons-why-we-need-to-rethink-the-management-of-phosphorus-resources-in-the-global-food-system/
 

hillbill

Well-Known Member
Scott's or whoever they own markets poultry litter mixed with feather meal 7-1-2 called organic garden fertilizer or something.
Fish bone meal 6-20-0 and fish meal 10-2-2 stink a lot at first but are excellent in mixes.
Molasses and ashes for K are helpful.
 

frankslan

Well-Known Member
Hey guys thought i would update you all. I mixed up 100 gals myself and put them in 2 50 gal sip container my plants have stopped drooping been about two weeks. I was having huge drooping problem since seed. They literally all perk up once they were in this mix. I think the soil might be slowing down a bit though

I bought tm-7 but im unsure if i should use it i dont want to mess them up. Maybe ill return it and get ful power.

I guess I should make a new tea i only gave it one when i mixed the soil. I also gave it an em-1 watering. A lot of people seem to be telling me to just let it flow though and kinda see if the soil can sort itself out. I guess so you can get a baseline and let the soil build

Tomorrow im going to do my first neem foliar. I have dr bonner peppermint soap or plain dish soap.


Here some photos thanks for the info guys. Two weeks ago the big one was turning yellow head to toe. Really a huge turn around.
http://m.imgur.com/a/mjnJ8


Ps i think i woukd just buy the premade if i had to do it over, man that was a bitch mixing it all up and washing the pumice. I can see how it's worth it if you have awesome compost though. I some local vermicompost and compost made by a legit composting place around here 50/50 mix so should be pretty good. Came out about the same price too. But i know everything was the best i could find.
 
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kratos015

Well-Known Member
Hey guys thought i would update you all. I mixed up 100 gals myself and put them in 2 50 gal sip container my plants have stopped drooping been about two weeks. I was having huge drooping problem since seed. They literally all perk up once they were in this mix. I think the soil might be slowing down a bit though

I bought tm-7 but im unsure if i should use it i dont want to mess them up. Maybe ill return it and get ful power.

I guess I should make a new tea i only gave it one when i mixed the soil. I also gave it an em-1 watering. A lot of people seem to be telling me to just let it flow though and kinda see if the soil can sort itself out. I guess so you can get a baseline and let the soil build

Tomorrow im going to do my first neem foliar. I have dr bonner peppermint soap or plain dish soap.


Here some photos thanks for the info guys. Two weeks ago the big one was turning yellow head to toe. Really a huge turn around.
http://m.imgur.com/a/mjnJ8


Ps i think i woukd just buy the premade if i had to do it over, man that was a bitch mixing it all up and washing the pumice. I can see how it's worth it if you have awesome compost though. I some local vermicompost and compost made by a legit composting place around here 50/50 mix so should be pretty good. Came out about the same price too. But i know everything was the best i could find.
Glad you went with the mix after all, it's great stuff! Don't be afraid to use the TM-7 though and definitely don't return it! The only way you'll mess them up is if you give them too much of it, just use the 1/4 tsp recommended dose or you can even cut that in half if you're still uncertain. Remember, with organics less is more. Also, the TM-7 has Humic Acid where as the Ful-Power is Fulvic Acid, they compliment each other quite nicely and I'd recommend grabbing both of them.

I'm guessing you don't water as often as you should if your seedlings were droopy? That would also explain why your soil seems to be slowing down. With living organic soil, you need to constantly keep things moist as the microbes need a constant supply of water and oxygen. Without those you have no life in your soil. No need to completely drench your soil, just enough to make sure things are moist and that your pots NEVER dry out. If your pots ever dry out your microbes will go dormant, or worse, die off!

Don't fret though, it isn't the end of the world if that happens. Look into a product called "Growers Recharge", I highly recommend it. It's pretty much just a jar of microbes that you mix with water and apply to your soil to reinoculate it. You can either put some in your water, or you can even brew it with an EWC tea. More often than not, in organics, when you see deficiencies it's usually because there's something wrong with the life in your soil. Plants can't get any nutes if there aren't any microbes to make them available.

And about teas, unless you're talking about EWC teas they're typically a waste of time and tend to throw things out of balance. With living soil, your soil should have everything that it needs. If you need to use anything but an EWC tea then your soil probably isn't all that fantastic. On top of that, a lot of people make teas with guanos and alfalfa meal which can and will burn your plants. I got to find that one out the hard way because I thought that you couldn't burn your plants with organics, not always true! However, you won't have that problem with CC's mix.

Personally, I always mix my soil because if I come across any problems I can rule the soil out because I made it myself. I know just how much of everything is in the soil, I know that it was kept moist at all times, if things are all fully composted, etc. When you're buying soil, you're putting a lot of trust into the person/store you're getting it from so unless they're a highly trusted source I wouldn't recommend it.

Sounds like you're on the right track though! Keep at it!
 

frankslan

Well-Known Member
Sounds like you're on the right track though! Keep at it!

Thanks for the info. They just seemed a little yellow in the new growth probably overwatered a bit. They aren't droopy.

In the old soil I was having problems with them drooping all the time over the course of two months. nows all good been perky for 2 weeks now.

I usually make the teas with vermicompost for forest hummus I find. I've been trying to just ride it out like you said the soil will work itself out.

I have one gal small plants going now too might give them a kelp tea or something in the future I want to grow them out as large I can in those containers and plant them in the final container hopefully when they are 1.5-2 feet tall. Is that too big for 1 gall no tills.


What would you recommend for flower any extra topdress? Keep in mind my plant just got into this new soil about 3 weeks ago and will be flipping soon. Only extra ammendment I add was powdered barley.
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the info. They just seemed a little yellow in the new growth probably overwatered a bit. They aren't droopy.

In the old soil I was having problems with them drooping all the time over the course of two months. nows all good been perky for 2 weeks now.

I usually make the teas with vermicompost for forest hummus I find. I've been trying to just ride it out like you said the soil will work itself out.

I have one gal small plants going now too might give them a kelp tea or something in the future I want to grow them out as large I can in those containers and plant them in the final container hopefully when they are 1.5-2 feet tall. Is that too big for 1 gall no tills.


What would you recommend for flower any extra topdress? Keep in mind my plant just got into this new soil about 3 weeks ago and will be flipping soon. Only extra ammendment I add was powdered barley.
did you say a one gallon no-till grow?
you'll be a lil chapped if you try and flower out something in that small of a container my man
you can do that with chelated-chem grows but not organics, and especially not with no-tills.
a no till should be at least a good 5 to 8 gallons, in fact the general consensus is ten gals is the minimum, I've found that you can do a 5-8 gallon if you don't vege them super long.
 

hillbill

Well-Known Member
I flower all the time in 1 1/2 gallons of mix organically with short veg and compost teas and very light Alfalfa teas. Top dress at 4 wks with fishbone meal and castings. This is not a no till. The small containers are for variety and easy moving. Always perpetual here but without the teas I would need at least 3 gallons and occasionally do that. It would seem a no till would need to be bigger still.

My mix has some elements that are several years old and the power of an older mix is surprising. Went from guano to fishbone meal and like that in the mix.
 

frankslan

Well-Known Member
did you say a one gallon no-till grow?
you'll be a lil chapped if you try and flower out something in that small of a container my man
you can do that with chelated-chem grows but not organics, and especially not with no-tills.
a no till should be at least a good 5 to 8 gallons, in fact the general consensus is ten gals is the minimum, I've found that you can do a 5-8 gallon if you don't vege them super long.
No just to get me through veg to two feet hopefully then up pot to 30 gal for flower
 

frankslan

Well-Known Member
I'm doing something similar to this, except they're in 2 gallon pots while they veg. You'll need to top dress them every so often so your pots don't run out of nutes, so long as you do that you should be just fine.
how often like every 4 weeks?
 

kratos015

Well-Known Member
how often like every 4 weeks?
Oh, sorry I didn't notice your reply, never got an alert :(

I'd say every 4-6 weeks though for sure. The thing that's nice about the amendments we use in Coot's mix is that none of it will burn your plants, so if you add it too early or anything like that you'll be solid. I let clovers grow in mine for 2 weeks to prep the soil, and my babies have been in them for 4, I just top dressed a few nights ago.

Every 4-6 weeks though is what works for me. The stuff decomposes pretty quickly too, especially if you've got a healthy population of microbes ready to go to work on munching on your top dress. And if you don't have any worms in your pots/soil, I can't recommend that enough. You can even buy them on Amazon, haven't had any problems buying my worms online. Hope it all goes well for you brother!
 
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