They SUGGEST [email protected] newbie begs to differ [email protected] with 6.5max Fluctuation

I've been pH adjusting my "ladies" since 12/26/16 to [email protected] during my whole GROW. During this time I've experienced yellowing between the veins of my new growth along with some older leaves. During the past weeks I've had this issue although the plants were developing new growth. I've tried to, in minimal portions, add nutrients after seeing that my PPMs were low or adjusting pH back to [email protected]. Now, I've been doing this faithfully and haven't seen any results much. My notes do show that when my pH was accidentally dropped a few times below 5.8 at exactly [email protected] I saw what I believed the next day to be "improvement". However, that was "short-lived" the following next 2 days according to my notes when my pH was adjusted back to [email protected]. The leaves, again, began to yellow along the new growth and old leaves. This past week I've been analyzing my PRECISE "notes" I've saw a pattern where leaves would improve during times my pH was "OFF". I began to run test on some,3.5 weeks EXACT since Germination, plants of the same strain. I pH adjusted 2 plants at a routine rate of [email protected] with a fluctuation ranging max @6.5 during all 3.5 weeks my leaves were yellowing. I pH adjusted 2 other at the same routine rate of [email protected] with a fluctuation ranging max [email protected] NO yellowing appears what so ever. Both plants were tested using NO nutrients.

What I found is that at a range of [email protected] the plant does not receive enough "manganese". My test have concluded that at [email protected] the plants new growth has extreme yellow along with old growth. My test showed that [email protected] displays no yellowing on any parts of the leaves.

Function: Manganese is used in plants as a major contributor to various biological systems including photosynthesis, respiration, and nitrogen assimilation. Manganese is also involved in pollen germination, pollen tube growth, root cell elongation and resistance to root pathogens. SOURCE (http://www.pthorticulture.com/en/training-center/role-of-manganese-in-plant-culture/)

I'm not sure if I'm CORRECT, though my test show I could be. To keep your [email protected] during your whole growth can induce toxicity in the plant as manganese is needed only in very small portions and is easily consumed at pH&5.5. I recommend starting the week at [email protected] and continuously lowering pH if needed to no LOWER than [email protected] as most important nutrients such as Calcium and Mangnesium aren't consumed anywhere below [email protected]*.

That is what I have discovered during my past 3.5 weeks of Germination for the SWEET TOOTH KUSH. Please EXPRESS yourself freely even if it is harsh. I am not offended as this was a test that solely proved plants needed a [email protected] during the start of my week. I could be wrong. I just don't see how if my test showed otherwise. Unfortunately, I didn't take photographs. I will my next test pH test @2/28/17

Woah, that thing is massive...

MaloMAL said:

I recommend starting the week at [email protected] and continuously lowering pH if needed

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I'm speechless. I thought optimal pH range was 5.75-6.275 .

So based off your assumption I want to lock out ca:mg @5.5? The 2 most posted issues people ask here.

My retort is your pH monitoring is uncalibrated. ^_^

Seems to me there's Deffo something wrong with ur ph tester PEACE

My plants like a higher ph say 6.0 in dwc when there a little more mature when there seedlings i get it down to 5.5

I got tired of my test pin being not calibrated right so i just use the drops

Antgotaclue said:

Seems to me there's Deffo something wrong with ur ph tester PEACE

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I use BlueLAB. I seriously doubt that my guy. What pH meter do you use ? Again, I ran precise test using quality state of the art equipment with the exception of my hydroponic resevoirs used which were roughneck Polyethylene food grade Containers. I did write on this forum that I could be incorrect and that my findings were based on the strain and environment I was using. This information could very. However, I would like for you to explain how a plant receives manganese at [email protected] using the chart I have provided above ? Thank you

Cx2H said:

Woah, that thing is massive...

I'm speechless. I thought optimal pH range was 5.75-6.275 .

So based off your assumption I want to lock out ca:mg @5.5? The 2 most posted issues people ask here.

My retort is your pH monitoring is uncalibrated. ^_^

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I use BlueLAB, I must say it is fully calibrated for now. Also I did write in this forum, if you FULLY read it, in which I can see you didnt, I stated not to KEEP your pH @5.5 but to begin the week @5.5 as the plant does not receive ANY manganese @5.8. By starting your pH @5.5 during the week, the plant obtains enough of the nutrient manganese as needed. During the rest of your week the pH will fluctuation, if healthy, upwards where it will sit around the pH range where Calcium And Magnesium some of the most important nurtrients vital to a plant, which I mentioned, will be obtained.

throwdo said:

My plants like a higher ph say 6.0 in dwc when there a little more mature when there seedlings i get it down to 5.5

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Of those 3.5 weeks both test were seedlings for the exact amount of 12 days after a 2.5 day wait for seed sprout. I have yet to see any yellowing coming from test 2 only test 1. Test 1 [email protected]. Start of the week Test 2 [email protected]. Start of the week. Test 1 pH fluctuates max @6.5 end week Sunday. Test 2 pH fluctuates max 6.3. Adjusted pH yesterday for both test to [email protected] look at the results of TEST 1 AMAZING all the yellow disappeared after adjusted pH @5.5 at 9:30PM E.S.T.... photo below taken @12:43PM E.S.T. COMPLETE GREEN no yellowing with the exception of minuscule dots cause from the HIGH manganese deficiency. Again, NO YELLOW after adjusted to 5.5 withing hours we see results right here.

MaloMAL said:

"manganese".

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i doubt it. sounds like Mg or N deficiency.

rkymtnman said:

i doubt it. sounds like Mg or N deficiency.

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Wait how would it be a N deficiency if Nitrogen is received throughout a pH range of 5.0 upwards 7.5. The only difference is each level where nitrogen is within range has an impact on how much Nitrogen itself is uptaken by the plants roots. E.G. @5.8 - 6.2 the Nitrogen received is at a normal toxicity level for the plants to safely consume. Any range before and after could be detrimental as Nitrogen could be easily consumed or consumed at a slower rate. But to say @5.5 I have Nitrogen deficiency alone makes no sense. Sorry. Facts speak otherwise.

I try and keep my ph at 6.0 on the money when my ph drops below 5.8 thats when i start seeing changes in my plants, twisting leaves slowed growth, ect, i get maximum growth between a ph of 5.8 to 6.1, and i have debated this with many dwc growers for years. Maybe its just me but i had one friend actually listen for once because he always had problems with his plants cause his ph was always kept at 5.5, he bet me half his harvest that upping his ph wouldnt help, i took that bet and after 2 weeks he conceded and thanked me, he said he had never seen his plants do so good, he got a fix for his situation and i got 7oz for a little information. This is just my 2 cents.

MaloMAL said:

I use BlueLAB, I must say it is fully calibrated for now. Also I did write in this forum, if you FULLY read it, in which I can see you didnt, I stated not to KEEP your pH @5.5 but to begin the week @5.5 as the plant does not receive ANY manganese @5.8. By starting your pH @5.5 during the week, the plant obtains enough of the nutrient manganese as needed. During the rest of your week the pH will fluctuation, if healthy, upwards where it will sit around the pH range where Calcium And Magnesium some of the most important nurtrients vital to a plant, which I mentioned, will be obtained.

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I use blue lab as well and that pH pen broke way to easy. Matter of fact I have the toolbox and I'd rather have a 4.50 cheap azz import pH pen vs that big azz make you think it will never be wrong, but is pen. The EC meter is identical but I use it less. Sometimes a brand name that is over priced is just that..

Back to the retort. Again methodology and test equipment uncalibrated and undocumented. You may have results but again you leave so many variables it's impossible to validate your claims/thesis.

Do test again, calibrate gear, list ALL test parameters, document daily observations etc. Not hey my sheet did this now I question reality based on my results.
I used a pH meter from blue lab that was 0.9 out of spec...

Thanks for your time and effort.

I grow in coco and I've found 6.0 to be the perfect pH for me. When I go lower I get a cal/mag deficiency and when I go higher I get an iron problem.

I think you're looking at it wrong. It's not a sharp cut-off point with any nutrient pH availability, it's a tapered scale and we are talking about a element that is only needed in the 3-5 ppm amounts.
Another thing is you said you used no nutrients. How did they green up with-out nutrition, my plants would have started eating them self for nutes.
The last is at 5.5 you're in the prime nitrogen uptake range.

MaloMAL said:

Wait how would it be a N deficiency if Nitrogen is received throughout a pH range of 5.0 upwards 7.5. The only difference is each level where nitrogen is within range has an impact on how much Nitrogen itself is uptaken by the plants roots. E.G. @5.8 - 6.2 the Nitrogen received is at a normal toxicity level for the plants to safely consume. Any range before and after could be detrimental as Nitrogen could be easily consumed or consumed at a slower rate. But to say @5.5 I have Nitrogen deficiency alone makes no sense. Sorry. Facts speak otherwise.

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a plant can be deficient in N at any pH range if there is not enough N available to the plant. N defic causes yellowing from bottom up. Mg (magnesium, not manganese) defic starts at the edges of the leaves and moves inwards.

and a Manganese defic is almost unheard of with just about every nute line out there.

what nutes? what water? what ppm/EC? some pics in normal white light would help. plants under Led are harder to diagnose.

bignugdoug said:

I try and keep my ph at 6.0 on the money when my ph drops below 5.8 thats when i start seeing changes in my plants, twisting leaves slowed growth, ect, i get maximum growth between a ph of 5.8 to 6.1, and i have debated this with many dwc growers for years. Maybe its just me but i had one friend actually listen for once because he always had problems with his plants cause his ph was always kept at 5.5, he bet me half his harvest that upping his ph wouldnt help, i took that bet and after 2 weeks he conceded and thanked me, he said he had never seen his plants do so good, he got a fix for his situation and i got 7oz for a little information. This is just my 2 cents.

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I love it. Again, I did state not to keep pH @5.5 but to start the week with a [email protected] and slowly allow the solutions in the reservoir and the plants intake raise the pH. I never mention bringing the pH down all through the Grow. Just the start of the week.

Cx2H said:

I use blue lab as well and that pH pen broke way to easy. Matter of fact I have the toolbox and I'd rather have a 4.50 cheap azz import pH pen vs that big azz make you think it will never be wrong, but is pen. The EC meter is identical but I use it less. Sometimes a brand name that is over priced is just that..

Back to the retort. Again methodology and test equipment uncalibrated and undocumented. You may have results but again you leave so many variables it's impossible to validate your claims/thesis.

Do test again, calibrate gear, list ALL test parameters, document daily observations etc. Not hey my sheet did this now I question reality based on my results.
I used a pH meter from blue lab that was 0.9 out of spec...

Thanks for your time and effort.

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Yea I have one of those Milwaukee instruments too. Cost me 35$ just a handheld, much more mobile. I use 3 pH meters at ALL times to be a sure of my reading. Thank you.

I agree. Y next test will be much more detailed. I will start a forum and update noted as comments rather than in my sheets. Looking forward to your comments. 2/28/17

MickFoster said:

I grow in coco and I've found 6.0 to be the perfect pH for me. When I go lower I get a cal/mag deficiency and when I go higher I get an iron problem.

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I'm using Hydroton expanded CLAY pebbles. Yes that is because CALMAG is consumed along with iron at pH higher than 5.8. Again, I have mentioned if you have fully read my forum that pH5.5 is just what I started the plants at during the start of the week.

jarvild said:

I think you're looking at it wrong. It's not a sharp cut-off point with any nutrient pH availability, it's a tapered scale and we are talking about a element that is only needed in the 3-5 ppm amounts.
Another thing is you said you used no nutrients. How did they green up with-out nutrition, my plants would have started eating them self for nutes.
The last is at 5.5 you're in the prime nitrogen uptake range.

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Again, if you have FULLY read my forum, you would see where I clearly stated manganese is needed only in minuscule(small) portions. To start your week at [email protected] is necessary to obtain the proper nutrients throughout the whole week as pH fluctuates upwards in a healthy Grow. As the pH fluctuates upward the plants roots are able to receive all the necessary nutrients obtained at a slightly high pH range. Thank you. I use 1gallon municipal water. 1 gallon Poland Spring. If you research you local sewage commission you can see a chart that displays the from different elements found in water. You'd be surprised along with some poor bacteria, you find many nutrients used to enrich the water. You'd be more shock to see how much, in small portions, those nutrients help develop your plant. I admit certain municipalities have shit water. Luckily Boston doesn't, if I can drink it, they can. For the Poland spring water I obtain the element chart online for my specific gallon bottle source. Again, it's filled with many enriched nutrients that a plant could live off.

rkymtnman said:

a plant can be deficient in N at any pH range if there is not enough N available to the plant. N defic causes yellowing from bottom up. Mg (magnesium, not manganese) defic starts at the edges of the leaves and moves inwards.

and a Manganese defic is almost unheard of with just about every nute line out there.

what nutes? what water? what ppm/EC? some pics in normal white light would help. plants under Led are harder to diagnose.

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Yea man, I know this. I hear you. I'll send some to you. I don't need anything diagnosed though... I'll give you what you ask for. Shortly. Thank you.