Johnny Retro
Well-Known Member
It has to be on a white blotter?
The White Fluff: My Night In With Lucy
- Thread starter CaNNaBiZ CaNucK
- Start date
growdankbuds
Well-Known Member
usually it is on white blotter, but I guess they could use anything they want.
CaNNaBiZ CaNucK
Well-Known Member
Many of you have probably read the infamous "Crystal To Blotter" thread by Chinacat72 from Shroomery from 2003 but I'll put up the main excerpts anyway. It explains 'family' better than anybody ever could and gets into the nitty-gritty of how our beloved Lucy is laid on blotter, along with some very provocative thoughts from Chinacat72.Can someone tell me the significance of 'family' in that sentence?
Thank You Chinacat72! And Mycotopia! And Shroomery!
Enjoy!
The information in this thread was generously provided by Chinacat72
"I will discuss LSD crystal and what happens with it. This info is from my experiences a long time ago.I can safely offer it because I have retired from this line of work and stay far away from it.
First I will briefly discuss the people or family as there called so you can get an appreciation for what they do and have done. The family is motivated to spread LSD because we believe that LSD is a key givin to us from above. LSD was givin to man from god to help him see the error of his ways. Why do you think it was discovered during the most horrible time in history. It is the antidote for the atomic bomb. It`s doesn`t matter if you beleive this or not ,because what i`m trying to express is how deeply important the family feels about the sacred value of LSD. Those who are at the upper level`s of the family will gladly sacrifice there lifes and freedom to do this work.
OK now down to the crystal. I have little knowlege about LSD manufacture so i`m going to talk about the final product the crystal. On tour crystal came in brown glass bottles with 1-10 grams in them. The bottles were sealed and contained CO2 and crystal. You can`t just buy crystal from family. First you have to be taught how to lay it ,which i`ll cover in a little bit. Also you have to do a thumbprint(eat it) there are no exeptions to this rule.The reason is to make sure your Karma is clean enough to handle this sacred work.
TYPES OF CRYSTAL
Needlepoint -very pure(95%) white powerdery crystal,was available in small amount`s. The best of the best
White Fluff -Very pure(95%) white light flakes of crystal. Still around and the most sought after. very pure
Silver -Good and clean(85-90%)-light greyish crystal. Was an unbelievable amount of this around in the late eighty`s and early nineties. Very good stuff. My first thumbprint was this kind. If you ate acid in the 80-90`s you probably sampled some silver.
Amber -Decent(70%?) This crystal varied from a light amber color to an almost dark brown color.Was always available.One batch called quadricept amber was the color of light honey and was very good.Lot`s a people worked with this crystal but I always would use silver instead since it was better and the same price.
Lavender -(60-70%?) light purple to almost black colored crystal. Like amber it varied batch to batch.
TJ (tornado juice) - purity unknown. I seen this shit in about four different colors and it always scared me. No experiance with it.
Champagne -(50-60%) black crystal, nasty stuff IMHO . I worked with it once and swore to never touch it again.
OK so you got some crystal and need to get it on blotter. It`s a pretty amazing feeling holding a jar in your hands that has 10 grams of crystal in it. That`s 100,000 doses in the palm of your hand. For dealing with laying we`ll say we got 1 gram. Acid is always layed 1 gram=10 tenpacks. A tenpack is tensheets. 1gram=10,000doses. If your laying needlpoint your doses will be 95mcg, because your crystal is 95% pure. If your laying amber your shit will be 70mcg, because it`s 70% pure. got it
Now you get a glass pyrex pan to dip your tenpacks in. Your crystal is dissovled into 110ml. of Everclear per gram.The purer crystals dissolve instantly with a little stirring. The not so pure take a little shaking. Champange is damn near impossible to get to dissolve evenly.
Paper-for white blotter standard watercolor paper#14 or equivalent is used. It`s critical you get the right paper. If you don`t it won`t absorb right and you`ll fuck it all up.Print`s are made up ahead of time and perferated.
OK so you got your crystal dissolved and your paper cut and ready. There are 2 schools when it comes to putting it on the paper. First dump the solution in the pan and dip each tenpack into it then lift it up and let any excess solution run off into the pan. Second method is to put the tenpack into the pan and squirt the solution on it with a baby syringe(the ones they give little kids medicine with). I Have done both and prefer dipping them just because its quicker .Then the tenpacks are layed out to dry which doesn`t take long since alcohol evaporates quickly. If you did it right there will be very little residue left in the bottom of the pan.This redidue is extremely potent and is either soaked up with a piece of paper(called mop up) or made into potent liquid(called wash). Whatever you choose this is saved for your personal use. While your doing all this you get very,very high. As soon as you open the jar of crystal it intoxicates the air. Most people were rubber gloves when doing this some don`t. Just don`t have any plans afterwards.
There might be slightly different methods used when laying, but this is how the dead family does it. After the tenpacks are dryed there distibuted and eaten up. Since the end of the Grateful Dead the massive distribution network that used to get rid of so much acid has been broken up badly. Never fear Acid is still out there"
"LSD is still around though it seems that a majority of the labs are inactive at the moment. This is normal as they don`t produce all the time. Most like the silver family only produce about every 5 years. Though they usually produce enough to last that long.
When the Grateful Dead toured massive amount`s of LSD were distributed around the country. On a typical east coast tour 100-150grams could easily be sold. Thats a million to a million and a half doses. This flooded these citys and the lsd trickled down to every nook and cranny of america. By the time it was dry again another tour would roll through the region and resupply it. Plus we would meet people on tour from certain area`s of the country and keep them supplied with the help of the good ole USPS.
Sadly when the dead stopped touring this network went into shambles. People fell out of touch and with no shows ,there wasn`t the Marketplace for distibution.In turn parts of the country arn`t getting saturated anymore.
LSD isn`t moved and sold like the cartel`s move coke and such. It`s handled by a brotherhood of people who truly believe there doing the work of god(or whatever name you call creation). We believe that LSD crystal has to be handled by the right people who are totally committed to the movement.
When we moved crystal there was always the feeling that we were protected by a higher power. I can`t tell you how many times i have had crystal or acid on me or my brothers and have been in situation`s where we should have gotten busted and something always protected us. So many times that coincidence is not an option. Why do i think we were protected. Because the family does it for mankind not money. We viewed LSD as the only hope for the radical change in conciousness that would save us. So in effect we viewed are work as the work of God. You know why they never busted a family lab? Because we would never betray LSD. Just as Jesus was nailed to the cross we were willing to spend the rest of our lives in jail or die to protect what we viewed as the salvation of are species. Sound`s a little dramatic doesn`t it, but i`m trying to give you an understanding of the faith in LSD that the family has.
By the way the Kansas bust was not a family lab incase anybody is wondering. The point i`m trying to make is the family believes LSD has to move through the right hands. This is why you can`t go down to the corner and get a gram of crystal. sorry to ramble.
As some of the cooks retire i rest assure you that they pass there recipes and secret`s down to those chosen to continue to fight the good fight. I don`t think it will ever be as readily available all over the country as it once was due to the break up of the distribution cycle of tour. I could be wrong and hope i am.
Alot of old family have moved on and including myself retired, feeling we served our time. The family does hear your cry`s for more acid and they don`t plan on giving up on mankind. Now's a good time for labs to be inactive. the current government administration is viewed as a bad storm that needs to pass as jerry sang "all good things in all good time" Keep the faith"
Quote:
how does one fall into this line of work?
"For me and the rest of the people on tour it was just a matter of spending year after year on tour. The elder`s that are on top keep in a eye on everybody that help`s move there stuff. They also know the intentions of those people. If they know your true and a total believer in the work they start letting you hang around.
Many hour`s are spent in hotel rooms watching them work. They make sure you know every detail. Also they make sure that you know the importance of being honest and laying your product correctly. Every hit you lay has the potential to change somebody`s life and bring them into the light. It`s taught like an apprenticeship.
My first thumbprint was silver. Before my print i thought i was pretty experienced with acid. I had been puddled many times with strong liquid. I wasn`t near as experienced as i thought as i walked into the room and everybody had a huge grin on there face, and i saw what i was about to take. Thumbprint`s arn`t weighed out on a scale. It`s more of "that`s a nice little chunk ,that should do" Your talking several sheet`s or more when you do a print.
Fluff and needlpoint are damn pure and i don`t imagine bears was any purer. I have heard of batches of needlepoint being as high as 98% White fluff is gorgous crystal. We would eat this crystal like crazy. When i first met the main guy in charge of this crystal he was snorting it!!!!
After i did a fluff print i never did any other kind except needlepoint. When you eat crystal you definatly can tell the differences between them. Purity does matter at that level."
Quote:
Isn't a thumbprint dangerous? You'd think a persons mind would be changed forever after doing that amount.
A thumbprint isn`t even close to the largest doses people have done. Dangerous? LSD is physiologicaly one of the safest drugs there are. There`s not one valid death that can be attributed to physiological complications from taking LSD. I didn`t know all this when i was taking it though.
Psychologically it could be very negative if the wrong person does it. That`s why we didn`t just walk around the parking lot handing out thumbprint`s.
As far as high doses go, it totally opens you up. For about a week afterwards your first print you need some babysitting. Hell you`ve just been reborn! After awhile it`s less tramatic. As for after effects. I am middle aged and healthy. I have 3 bright healthy children. And i`m just getting my bachelor`s degree with a 3.5GPA I do feel high very often though, but i don`t mind. The man that gave me my first print still does crystal once in awhile and he`s in his mid sixties."
Quote:
You mention the purity varying on alot of the crystal. How are they checking purity? Just roughly with how long it takes to dissolve in a solvent?
"I can tell by color. How crystallin it is and what color it is. You can inspect the crystal once you know what good clean crystal looks like. And then you can compare. I have a moto "if it's white it's all right". Of course the jugement on my end is not scientific . I examin it like jewelers do jewels. The only real way to get a very accurate reading on how pure it is comes from the lab. Most decent lab's have a GC/MS and can get a decent purity reading from that. Needlepoint and White fluff are the only one's that are reliably consistant. Silver varies a little. Lavender and Amber vary greatly in appearance from batch to batch. Indicating a difference in purity.
If I was buying Amber or Lavender I would want to see it first. They have a tendancy every once in awhile to skimp on the last part of manufacture. The rinse and recrysitazation at the end is crucial in determing purity. If this isn't done enough your product is less pure.Some of you may have heard Owsley say he lost 20% of his product making sure its pure. Thats because he rised it a ton of times. Thats why his shit was said to be better than Sandoz. Amber and Lavender if they don't due this good there crystal looks more dirty. Also the purer you make your crystal the less it weighs and it's sold by weight."
Quote:
How long does LSD "stay good"? I mean if i was to take it, put it in a zippylock and then put it in the pages of a book (someplace with unchanging air and no light)
"I find that exact method perfect. I took two sheets of needlepoint and wraped them in plastic wrap then A. foil and put them in the middle of a book on a bookshelf. There going on 3 years old and last time somebody tried them they were very potent. They get no light ,air ,and are in a cool enviroment.
As for crystal it's stored in brown glass vial's that are filled with CO2 and sealed."
Quote:
You said the Family was always on tour with the Dead. Do you know offhand if any of them ever had the occasion to hang with Jerry and the guys?
"A lot of the older guys did. Hell the family started with the Dead and Bear. It's all connected from the band, crew to the fans and faithful.
As for hanging with Jerry myself , no. I got backstage several times, but that doesn't mean anything. There's backstage and then there is the bands backstage ,thats off limits. I would much rather be in the crowd. The closest I ever got to Jerry was ten feet as he walked by me and a bunch of other people. I just smiled. I had nothing to say. He had a lot of pressure with all the people who clung to him and thought he was a god.
It was really hard for him to deal with and one of the reasons he turned to smack IMHO . I had nothing to say to him ,Except mabye "Play St. Stephen!"
Quote:
I was just curious what kind of sheets were going around when you were into it, was there always different sheets or was there stockpiles of certain kinds?
"Over the 8 years I was on tour I saw more prints than I possibly could remember or list. I wouldn't even know were to begin. Hundreds and hundreds of different kinds. My favorite was plain white unperferated paper. The reason for this was alot of cops don't know what a tenpack of white unperfed blotter looks like. Once on a Greyhound bus from Floridia to Baltimore our bus was stopped and a bunch of feds got on it. They searched everybodys bags. They were looking for guns or coke since we were coming from floridia. I'll never forget the feeling of watching a federal agent (FBI I believe) go through my bag and pull stuff out. I had a gram(ten- tenpacks or 10,000 doses) of white paper. He pulled it out and had no clue what it was . It looked like just a bunch of ten inch square pieces of paper to him. Had it be perferated and had a print on it he probably would have known. After that I was a true believer in white unperfed paper.
Print's are usually made in mass amounts and then sold to the different familys. So one kind of print can actually have several different kinds of crystal on them. This happened years ago with the Jesus Christ prints. The first ones were made of very pure white fluff and they were dipped to contain a little over 100mcg. People went nuts over them and the were the talk of the summer. Then the lavender family got hold of the same print and put there dirty ass crystal on them and they were about half the strength as the original white fluff batch.
People should know the truth about LSD. The internet is the perfect medium to transfer this knowlege. Just enough info can be given to paint a general picture of how things work, without giving specifics that would endanger this important work. I am in the perfect position to do so. I am long enough removed from the active scene to offer information without endangering anyone including myself. My friends that still live in the old world are very supportive.
Now it seams lifetimes ago. I was just a tool in a very large tool box. The family was around long before I came around. Luckily it was in a time when a lot of the older folks were around to help with the scene. For me LSD is a gift and tool given to man from the heavens. I truly believe it is here to point us back towards the light. These values are the same with almost all the family.
After you get a glimpse of eternity you can't help ,but want to share it with others who need it."
Quote:
Sand, Scully, and Owsely were the original chemists working for the family?
"Yes, all 3 were family. Owsely was the original chemist of the Dead scene/family. He set many of the standards and ethics still held today. He also got Sand and Scully involved and doing this work for the people not money. Sand and Scully were in The "Brotherhood of Eternal Love". Back then it was basically all one big network or family. After the feds broke up the BEL in the 70's is when people split off and ran smaller labs,networks and were known by there product.
I would also like to note that when all 3 were busted they were all threatend with huge sentences. They kept there mouth shut and served very little time in comparison to how much they could have served.
Pickard was family many years ago. He has been busted for manufacturing 3 times. On his second bust he ran his mouth to the feds about other drug activity within the scene resulting in several people getting prison time. After that he was shunned and nobody in the family would work for him. That is why he had to work with such shady people in Kansas. Had he been working with family he wouldn't be going to serve a lifetime prison sentence, he wouldn't have been busted at all. On his second bust instead of biting the bullet and keeping his mouth shut like Sand, Scully, and Owsely, he chose to make a deal.
Many years later now he is going to prison for life because he was betrayed in the same way. I do hope that Pickard can get out of prison before his life ends. He has a new kid that was just born and a new wife. He has done a great service to man by making LSD. I would hope that after a few years he can get released and live his remaining years with his new family. I doubt he will be so lucky though.
Many of us who have been graced by LSD owe a great debt to these 3 pioneer chemists and the ones that still remain active and unknown today."
"In the days of old tour wasn't just a time to flood the country with LSD, but also about making connections. For those of us on the road full time we needed an income when we got back to the bay area. Meeting kind people on tour was always nice, but it also provided an chance to spread the juice when we wern't traveling. When the Dead toured 4 times a year you would meet all sorts of folks from every nook and crany of the US. Some of these people were chosen to provide for there community. This is a huge link in the distribution chain. And its also in very, very bad shape.
When Jerry died there was a lot of folks who quit touring. As people moved around connections were severed. In the old days if you lost track of people you knew you would see them at the next tour. Now thats not an option because there is no tour. People have fell out of touch. People have moved on. So as the years have moved on the existing links have been stretched thinner and thinner."
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I'm starting to think the Brotherhood is just one more lost religion.
I have little faith in the LSD movement ever getting full steam again. I hope i'm wrong. It will always be around, but the not like it was. The distribution system is in shambles. It seems that a whole new generation of younger people lacking the once highly held ethics are ruining things.
On a positive note, the psychedelic movement will continue. Things change and may seem dark ,but we must continue. The Psychedelic Experience and man have been together for thousands of years. It survived christianity,it can survive anything. It goes underground now and then, but is there for those dedicated enough to seek it out. If you feel strongly about the benefits of psychedelics then do something positive about it.
You can't expect the old generation to carry the torch forever. A new wave of dedicated folks needs to rise up and continue this work. Can you think of a more important thing to do?
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i believe there's a large number of us who would LOVE to get into it and help, how is this possible?
It is going to be tough for any new people to get into this work. This summer has shown that poor choices were made in who would spread the love. Not saying it can't be done, but it will be tough. It usually takes a few years of hanging around. Your intentions will be tested.
Not to worry though, because there are many ways we can all help.
First is to become educated and responsible when it comes to psychedelics. Know the facts and when debating sceptics be mature and informed. Most people have very poor info about LSD. Rumors and bullshit plague its myth. The more people we have telling the truth the better.
Turn people on. You'll never make a closer friend than one you turned on. After you get to know the effects of psychedelics you can tell that certain people would benefit from them. Talk to them if they're willing. Don't be pushy, but offer them info. Then if they want offer them the chance. The more truthful info they have the better off they'll be.
I am a firm believer that psychedelics can be shown to be useful in mental health. I am in the middle of a 9 year academic voyage to get the proper credentials to help if the chance arises. If we can prove through science and medicine that LSD is benifitial then we make a great step forward. Not only will it help expell the nasty rumors around them, but give people the chance touch the healing energy that LSD can open up. Studies are under way in the US right now. There for conditions like OCD. Even though most of us don't have OCD this study is important. It establishes the safety of psychedelics. This opens the doors for further studies that cover other areas. Before the scheduling of LSD there was a lot of research being done. Alot of it was very promising.
LSD and other psychedelics were placed in the schedule one category and access to them was cut off even to legit researchers. This was a total political move that had nothing to do with the saftey or benefits of LSD. It was about trying to get control of a generation that didn't want to be under control. Theres many researchers in the world very interested in psychedelic research. These are very bright M.D.'s, PhD's and scientists. The more help on this front the better. This is were I will spend my remaining years for the movement.
Supply- There is always a need for psychedelics. If your totally dedicated and willing to risk your freedom to better this planet through providing psychedelics then all the info you need is available at your finger tips.
I can think of nothing more important for the survival of our species and those we live with then for us all to have access to the psychedelic experience."
growdankbuds
Well-Known Member
yeah I remember reading that good thread
CaNNaBiZ CaNucK
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the comps Mike! And yes, I certainly can agree that I experienced a dream-like state where time was of no consequence. This was when the surreality of my 'known' reality creeped into my conscious. Mindblowing. Flufftastic.
Johnny Retro
Well-Known Member
That was a great read, thanks Canuck
CaNNaBiZ CaNucK
Well-Known Member
Glad to share the power, Johnny.
CaNNaBiZ CaNucK
Well-Known Member
Well, I figure this is a suitable time to post Chinacat72 and Whiterasta's other infamous thread "THE THUMBPRINT" originally posted 2003.
Please enjoy responsibly
My information is on how the Dead/rainbow/origanal family handle LSD.
When LSD crystal is bought it comes in little glass viles. It's a dense crystal and a gram of it looks alot smaller than a gram of coke or flour(or other powder). Ten grams can fit in a vile small enough to hold in your hand and clentch your fist and conceal.
Anyway as I said in my other thread when you first buy crystal from the family their's 2 requirement's. 1. You have to be taught how to lay it properly and be trusted to do so on your own. 2. You have to do a thumbprint. The family believes LSD crystal should only be handled by those with the proper energy or karma to do so. There's no better way to test somebodys faith of LSD than give them a thumbprint.
Originaly thumprints were given by taking the glass vile and puting your thumb over
the top of the vile and turning it and fliping it upside down real quick. This put a coating of crystal on your thumb which was pessed into the palm of the person ,leaving your crystal imbedded thumbrint in there palm(hence the term thumprint) where it would absorb(or they might lick it off.). This was your certification
Nowadays thumbprints are eaten. Any time someone eats crystal it's refered to as a print. This way was adopted because it's more efficiant.
As for the experiance itself. All reviever's are experianced with LSD(at least they think so until there printed
) You feel it almost instantly. LSD crystal has an energy to it. Having a jar of it my pocket is enough to alter my conciousness. As soon as it touches your skin or goes in your mouth you can feel it. Alot of folks will throw up within minutes. This is an exorcism of sorts. Like all the negative energy being cast out of your body. Then you lay down and learn. As for the experiance I just couldn't do it justice to describe it. Your never the same again.
A thumprint doesn't open the door of perception it blows it off the hinges.
You melt into eternety. You let go and die into the moment which is all. There is no you anymore only all. The intensity of this can't be described, but you realize as your sliping away that it's familar.This is because it become quite clear this is exactlly what happens when you die. After an eternity you slowly start to come back in pieces. You feel reborn and a completely different person. You don't ever come completely down or back. This isn't a bad thing ,but it's very scary at first.
I won't try to describe it any more because I can't. Also after your experianced with eating crystal its a little less tramatic. Your first one is spent on the ground. After awhile I could eat crystal at shows and whatnot.
I have only seen one print go bad and I described this in my other thread. The guy says it's the most important event of his life and now lives happily so I guess it wasn't bad. His reaction at the time was.
I think psychedelics are safer in large doses(i'm not talking about thumbprint sizes though) as far as bad trips go. They override your ego's defenses in large enough doses. you can't think your having a bad trip because you can't think at all beacause there is no you.
Terrance McKenna and Andrew Weil MD have said this also.
It is hard to describe a thumbprint. Human language cannot describe an experiance that is encompasses all of life. Every cell of every creature or living thing that ever lived or will live is connected by the energy or light. When we die are body and our ego is gone. We become one with eternity or the light or God or whatever name you wish to call it. A thumbprint allows this to happen and rerturn to our physical body. My first print I layed down and quickly realized that this was my actual death. You watch the whole process unfold with complete awareness.
I didn't cling to my body I just realized my life had passed. As I was spiraling up or out I saw my life evolve through the years I lived. The happiness, the sadness,the people I loved and the people I didn't. The joy that I gave and the pain that I caused. I saw the true nature of reality and why things were the way they were. As I got higher I saw the nature of reality on the cosmic scale and saw that the reason for our evolution was to experiance love. To love is to have experianced the finest of life. Then came the moment were it was time to let go. As I did it came for me and I sobbed uncontrolabley for I realized that the light or energy we call god or creation was perfect. It was pure unconditional love.
What else could god have been I realized. That glint of innocent perfection in a baby's eye. The light was pure as the heart of Jesus Christ. I dissolved into it and died. Since there was no me only the all ,I cannot remember the rest because there was no me to remember. After forever I slowly decended into my body.
I spent days awake afterwards talking to myself. I vowed to god to spread LSD so others could see the light. I vowed to look at every person as the lord and treat them as such.
I was reborn and continue to live by the values I learned. I became as active as I could spreading LSD. Year after year in hotel rooms with a pyrex pan and watercolor paper. Hoping excitedly that some of these hit's will help guide my brothers and sisters back towards the light. LSD is a direct message from God. Period. I don't think we get another chance. We can love each other or we can kill each other ,but it is up to us. As I always say in my threads as a reminder, my work with LSD ended years ago.
As for eating and going to the bathroom. I don't think I ate for a week afterwards. As for going to the bathroom I hadn't eaten before hand at my guides advise so it wasn't a problem. I remember letting go as it got dark and coming back a lttle before sunrise. I was high for along time afterwards and as I said earlier you never fully return. I feel high all the time still and its been years.
Also I did many, many prints after that. I have eaten a lot of crystal but it was never like that first time.
I must stress that I was in the company of very evolved and older people that made sure my experiances were optimal. These were kind old spirits that had been were I was going many years before and many times. They held me as a baby every inch of the way.
You have heard of near death experiances right. A thumbprint is a beyond death experiance.
I have a rich life now thats full of good fortune. A wonderful wife and 3 children who are completely wonderful. Every day is complete joy. I couldn't ask for more, but I know it will end one day for good. I await this day with no fear ,but the knowlege that that most rewarding and enlightening experiance of life is death.
...
Ok i'll tell you about the one that went bad.
This finds me in Oakland in the early 90's. Between tour's I would sit out in San Francisco and keep things flowing. Friends from the east coast would need shit so I would lay it and mail it or others would come out to get a lower price and I would lay it and send them on there way. Well a real good friend came out to get 4 or 5 grams.With him he had a few people. I told him he could help me lay it and to have his friends hang out in the city till were done. He says this friend of his is ready to come with us. Now I had talked to the guy before and knew he was connected to the rainbow family, but his energy seamed weird. trusting my friends judgement i said alright.
So we decide to drive over to oakland to lay it in a hotel. We get to some sleazy hotel out by the freeway and get ready. Now i'm a little edgy about this newbie watching, but as long as he stays out of the way it's fine. So we get to work and it takes quite awhile to lay 5 grams of acid. Thats 50 tenpack or 50,000 doses. Were done and cleanin up and he say my friend is ready for a print. I'm like are you sure and he says i think so. I look at his friend and he's like just give it to me I can handle it. So I get out my jar of silver crystal and knock some out on the nightstand because my friend wants to take some with him to do in the mountains.
Well this fuckin dude sticks his finger right in my pile of crystal and then licks it. I'm like thats a pretty hefty dose there soldier. He's like ya whatever now what do we do. Then I started to realize it was going to get weird. Within 2 minutes he's saying man my fuckin stomach hurt's that was poison. I'm like go in the bathroom your going to puke. He goes in there and and we hear him cussin and puking. Meanwhile i'm askin my friend what the hell he's got us into. Then the bathroom door opens and he comes out butt naked saying i'm gettin the fuck out of here.
Were like no man just chill your not going to be able to get far. We put him in the back bedroom and turn the lights out and figure thats best for him. I close the door and tell him if he needs me were there. I figure he's got some things to sort out with god. Now this hotel Is right on the freeway. In fact you can jump out the window onto it. Were also on the second floor. Well were sitting there and i'm making some phone calls telling people i'm going to be hung up for awhile and I hear cars on the freeway honking. We go back into the bedroom and he's halfway out the window, getting ready to jump onto the Oakland freeway naked as the day he was born.
We pull him back into the room and he's starting to realize he's dying.He thinks i'm causing him to die and i'm the devil. Now shit gets ugly. He's screaming at us that he's dieing and trying to get out of the hotel. Since I just layed 5 grams i'm high also as is my friend. We call some other friends to come over. Were holding him down on the bed trying to cover his mouth. We have 50,000 doses of freshly layed LSD in the room and I don't need the cops coming. I take the pan and all the supplies I used to lay with and throw them out the window onto the freeway.
My other friends get there and we tell the girls take the acid and get out of hear quick. This guy's screaming at the top of his lungs that he's dying and I know the other hotel guest's can here him. It's got to be any minute that the Oakland police show up. I'm telling him to let go ,don't fight it. He thinks i'm satan so he's not listening to anything I say. Also as we have been wrestling him he has lost control of his bodily fluids. There's puke ,shit and piss all over. I can't imagine what the cops are going to think when they come in and see a couple hippies on some guy covered in puke and shit screaming i'm dying as we tell him it's ok he'll like it.
After awhile he stops moving. He was sucked into eternity. He was gone. As he layed there motionless we cleaned him up. And my friend sang amazing grace over and over to him. After an hour passed I realized the cops hadn't came. I contribute this to 2 things. The protection of God and the fact we were in a nasty part of Oakland and people mind there own buisness.
My girl comes by and brings us clean shirts and pants. Itake a shower and clean up as they watch him and then we take turns. My nerves are frazzled. I'm high and this guys bad trip has really wigged me out. Me and my girl decide to go for a walk since my friends with him and he's not moving. We get out side and realize that going for a walk at 3 am in oakland isn't going to be good. She senses my tension and we go to the side of the hotel in some bushes were she layes me down and sets my mind at ease with that magic only a woman can perform.
As dawn breaks he's coming around. Talking incoherantly ,but I can see a sparkle in his eye. We all part ways and me and my girl head back to SF to get some sleep.
A day or two later my friend calls and says there heading home and to come say goodbye. I get there and this guy comes up to me and gives me a big hug and says he's sorry. I tell him don't worry about it. He then tells me that he met god and was a different person now. This makes me happy.
This man hasn't taken LSD since and lives in Oregon and owns a organic farm.
He's happy with a family and at peace.
He says that night was the most important and best thing that ever happened to him. I see him at the Oregon county fair every year and we always have a big hug.
he's turned into somebody i really admire and love.
After this incedent I became very carefull of who I printed.
...
I started using LSD out of curiousety at age 13. I quickly realized that it was more than just a drug after some friends brought back some acid they got from a dead show.
as for graduating. Sure if you feel psychedelics are just a stepping stone in your evolution. Read Ram Das(richard Alpert) Be Here Now it's priceless and can help you with the transition. I don't take LSD anymore. I can't ,it takes to much to get me off and to long to come down. As a middle aged father of 3 and full time college student I don't have time to spend days on end tripping. I take 3-4 trips per year on a combo of shrooms and DMT . This gets me there and back quickly. I may do acid again someday and keep a little close at hand incase I need to. I have been serously courting the idea this month as it is the 60th aniversery of the first LSD trip in human history. I probably won't have time. And if I do it will probibly be a small dose(300mcg?) and a bicycle ride to honor Dr. Hoffman and our sacred sacrament. I doubt I will though. I know alot of people who have moved on from acid to meditation(something I'm addicted to) and yoga. There very happy and peaceful. I know others who are in there 60's and still dose. Whatever path you choose is fine as long as it is rewarding. Some people choose to take what they have learned and move on.
as for sending some "love" I no longer am involved with that sacred work at the underground level. This is why I can freely offer this information without risking the saftey of myself and the family
...
People who use them for non-spiritual purposes are fine with me. The reasoning is that they may catch on and realize the value of the experiance. Lot's of people have just been looking for a new high when they find that LSD can provide so much more. The only thing that toubles me is when people are not responible with them and they get in trouble or have problems and the psychedelic gets blamed.
Also if people just use them as a way to get fucked up the'll more than likely eventually have a bad experiance, but thats there fault.
As for meditation its great your practising it. i wish i would have started younger.
If i don't meditate my day is alot more stressful. Meditation allows me to integrate the psychedelic world with my daily life. It gives me true balance.
...
Yes the thumbprint is the ultimate test of trust. If somebody has been printed there family plain and simple. Print's are given to those who are ready and experianced. I learned the importance of this the hard way in Oakland
BTW what was your print? Mine have been White fluff,Needlepoint,silver,amber and one lavender.
Does a day ever pass for you that you don't feel it. I feel it every single day.
Yes every day of my life at some point I feel as if i'm dosed. I'm ok with that.
Meditation helps me smooth it out and enjoy it. For the most part i don't even notice it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ”Whiterasta”
Mine was a clean white crystaline beauty,not family acid, but guru made. I was an O Chem major with a wild side a mile wide and we met and over time he became much like a spiritual father.He would allow me to assist the "cook" and let me do column and lay up.Then one day in 78 he gave me a eighth oz of crystal and told me to "spread the word" and that he would be back after summer and then we'd talk more.So the summer of 78 I dosed 1000mics + daily all summer and played guru.In late august he came back and took a long look at me asked me if "I had made a lot of money over summer?" I replied "Money?" This was what he wanted to hear and it made him smile and say "Good, see ya tomorrow"
the next day we were going to prep the lab after his absence,clean, dust and such.When I showed up at the trailer he had a funny grin on his face and he said 'I hope you don't have plans." we went in his old lady was there,unusual,and she was holding a small watch glass with the crystal Spice in it.She said "honey it is time to grow up". They then told me to stick in my thumb and press.By then I was nervously curious and my hands were sweaty so i pulled my thumb free with a generous coating on it.I looked at it and I swear I could feel it starting then I stuck my thumb in my mouth and let go.The first hr or so I think I was in and out of the world then "I" just dissapeared for eternity.IMO part of me still is there.
I am facing death due to a botched angiogram and I know I will meet with the part of me which rides the eternal winds when my time is over.I know that death is a mere transition,I know this because I died that day in late 78 and arose again reborn.My priorities of life were refocused and I have been working to integrate the new paradigm of being which was created by that day every since.I think if a lesson or enlightenment came from this it is that I consciously participate in my life to a much greater degree.This is not the "easy' way to live in a world of injustice and cruelty.I have been forced to accept the balance of positive and negative w/o imposing my own desire. And I still must struggle mightily to integrate and exist in this society.My freinds old lady said it was time to grow up but she did not say I would outgrow myself.I have absolutly NO regrets although the changes in my mind and thought process have made interfacing with traditional thinking a challenge.I think I must give Sclorch fits with the way my mind takes classic philisophical thought and twists it about.I know that "holy men" have no clue regarding my spirituality.
Like China said every day I know I 'thumbprinted" but the funny thing is no matter how you rewire your brain life still bring the same challenges.I still have to stuggle with the challenges but I believe that I may have somewhat more novel solutions to some things than some others,but all in all I am remarkably Ward Cleaver considering.Any more only the wife,kids,and freinds really get the jist of my bent,and that is just fine with me.
One last thing,I have experienced literal death (heart stopped) and the irresistablity of death and strong psychadelic experience are quite similar.In Death one realizes the ineffable nature of the experience and resisting is futile,much like resisting a thumbprint,it is just NOT possible .
So now there are some of us out there who have customized our thinking but like the early hotrodders we somewhat haphazardly customized our brains.Like some of the early hot rods we may have some areas where we really perform well but drivability has been comprimised.But I have come to know and love all the lil idiosycrisies of my ole jalopy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ”Chinacat72”
Family is used to describe the brotherhood. There's the Dead family, rainbow family and there are familys of the varous types of crystal(exp.fluff family)
usually your part of more than one of these family's if not all of them. It's all family.
The network of the counterculture that started 40+ years ago.
We are a tribe or "family". Were the ones that "know" that were all brothers and sisters on this giant ball of rock hurtling through space.
When you travel beyond death to eternity with people you devlop a bond thats as strong as any family. We are the decendents of the summer of love and the psychedelic explosion of the sixties. We are also decendents of the indians and people of the earth who have occupied this mudball since the stone age.
In the end were all family. Every person and creature that ever lived or will. We all come from the same place and oneday return there. Every particle of energy in the cosmos is connected. It's just most people don't have a clue about this till they die. Those of us that realize these important revalations and try to live in accordance with them are the family.
Family buisness is completely different then the coke buisness.
The motivation for the coke buisness is money plain and simple. The family is made of people who believe that the work they do is sacred and money is not the motivation for all ,but a few.
As far as the way it's ran is very different than the coke world. For one there is absolute trust in your fellow associates. This is why we have thumbprints. To know that every body is on the level. Coke dealers and other dope dealers start snitching on each other at the first hint of trouble. That doesn't happen with the family and is why the DEA has never had any sucess in getting even close to the top. LSD is seen as sacred and to put your personal freedom before the security of this sacred system of important work would be a sin against all of man. If you don't think this way you don't have any right to carry on this tradition.
As for buisness details, I have been out of that line of work since 96. They constantly change and security is more sophisticated than you could imagine for a bunch of old hippies. I don't think my friends would approve of me giving details out on how this network moves so stealthly.
...
Thumbprints are not weighed out. By todays dosage sizes the amount would be in the hundreds or higher. It's more like how many sheets would a thumbprint be not doses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ”Whiterasta”
3-5 sheets to the wind
Quote:
Originally Posted by ”Chinacat72”
There is a massive difference between 500mcg and a thumbprint.
There not even comparable trips. As for saturation effect this is from medical research in the 50's comparing doses of lsd. There may not be a notacable difference between 1000 and 2000 mcg. There is a huge difference between 1000mcg. and 40 or 50 mg. Of course the reseachers never ventured into this dosage range. As for Jonathon Ott and Ram Dass I would venture to say neither has had a thumbprint. The quote you printed of Ram Dass is dealing with tolerance anyway not saturation levels.Taking 2400mcg of acid a day for weeks would be alot different than taking 40,000mcg one time. I know close to a hundred people that have had thumbprints and each one would laugh there ass of if someone told them there was no difference between 500mcg. and 50,000mcg.
As for futher clarification try eating 500mcg. and a couple weeks later stick your finger in some LSD crystal and lick it. Then you can see just how similar experiances they are.
...
Once that amount of LSD is injested you are never the same,ever!!!
Most prints turn out very well. It's not like there made availble to anybody.
Usually the person is deemed ready by those who can tell.They are taken care of before and after the print by the family, this may take up to a week before your functioning again. Sometimes skeptics are printed, but there reactions are usually very, very shattering. It's hard when your whole belief system explodes and the truth is revealed. You basically have to start from scratch. All those years you thought you knew the truth and God, then in a matter of minutes you find you didn't know shit, then you die. . This is all related to first prints. Repeated prints later are less traumatic and not nearlly as shattering.
Most folks I know that have done prints rarely do LSD anymore. There's really know need to except for nostalgia. I do know one brother( who gave me my first print) who is in his mid sixties and still eats crystal.
I don't know if I ever will again. I have courted the idea , and mabye will again someday.
...
It's affected me on so many different levels. Mentally it has changed my whole outlook on life and my perception of the world. Spiritually it has given me the absolute faith in eternity that can only be had from being eternity. My philosophy's are all based on my experiances. I no longer see the world as a bunch of seperate species and things, but a connected matrix of biology and energy that flows to and from a core that is the pure light of unconditional love.
Physically it's affected me in that you never come back down completely.
But why would you anyway? You can't look at the truth and then pertend you didn't see it and that it doesn't exist.
A thumbprint is a life long commitment.
As for visual activity ,it's constant. But I hardly notice it anymore.
Eternity is in the here an now. So is my life, so they constantly flow together or against each other. Meditation is key for me now.
I no longer consider my physical reality my true reality.
Shit man I can't explain this stuff. It's just not possible.
The more I explain ,the more I need to explain what I was trying to explain
I guess you could sum it up as Robert Hunter did after his night of 250,000mcg.
"I died 1000 deaths"
Thats what it really is, death. Most people live there lives unsure about what happens when we die. Even the most devoutlly religous have anxiety about the big moment.
I don't , I welcome it. Thats how its changed me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ”Whiterasta”
I did something similar the summer of '77 I ate 1000+mics every day for 90 days and yep I had a huge tolerance at the end of summer........I thought.Then in Sept when I should have been signing up for school I "Thumbprinted" And NO I only thought I had tolerance.After I came around to this reality again I did come down but was also "changed".I took complete control over my schooling and my life(as well as complete responsibility)
BTW Ram Das says he "came down" but he changed his name to Ram Das and wears white robes and even he admits LSD helped precipitate his change.One wonders what his opinion would have been had he instead of walking out of the house and coming down he would have taken 1/2 gram of crystal at the end of his experiment?
The 50-500 range will saturate the seratonin system however LSD also affects other receptors like dopamine and noradrenaline to a lesser degree, at ultradoses these effects come more strongly into play negating the plateau effect.
Enter the difference between 500mcgs and 10000+ is incomparable as is the mode of ingestion.The change begins as the crystals melt on your tongue and is totaly unlike eating a pile of prelayed paper.One senses his imminent ego death coming as the crystals are absorbed into the tongue.the knowledge that you are totaly in the care of family is what one clings to as long as concepts such as family contain meaning then one is simply....gone. When awareness returns it is changed and IMO forever.
I have to laugh when Ram Das says he "came down" returning sobriety is not the same as being unchanged One does come down from a print but NOT UNCHANGED.
I have had the privelidge of speaking with Ram Das on several occasions and to this older tripper his "mark" is as clear as if it were painted upon his forehead.
Oh yeah thats another "side effect" I can spot a serious tripper no matter how many yrs have elapsed since their last dose.You should see the suprise when I spring it on the "reformed"
I would have to say to you Enter that you should meet those who have had the experience in person if possible and judge for your self if their experience is valid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ”Chinacat72”
What have I done with my life thats different. Everything!! I spent 8 years in hotel rooms around the country dipping gram after gram of blotter in hopes that one of these hits will bring somebody into the light. For 8 years I spread as much LSD around the country as I could, not for personal gain ,but for the hopes that it would help get the human race back on track.
Now I am dedicated to becoming a part of the misniscule research movement into psychedelics. I am just getting my BS in psychology/pre-med. Next is grad school or med school. This is all for the sole purpose of working with psychedelics in addiction and othe mental disorders they have shown great promise in. Whether this will happen in my lifetime I don't know, but I will try to help as much as possible. So now i'm consentrated on getting my MD or PhD.
I aslo spend countless hours on this website trying to dispell the enormous amount of LSD rumors there are.
As for personal differences it's changed everything. The way I interact with the world and the way I see it. It also brings me great sorrow to have been a part of a movement were the kind, beautiful potential of human relationships were reasized and then to see the rest of the world and how far off track it is.
As for the lord, I realize I have used this term in the past. Thats a mistake on my part because it ties in with the orthadox religions such as christianity and Islam.
I want no part of these religions and feel they do much more harm than good.
I do have faith in Eternity(my word for God). Seeing is believing
------------------
Just started going to Dead shows and finally said fuck it in 86 and did tour full time. When you travel around the country and see the same folks that are doing the same thing you are you get close to them. It really is a big family. In that time period alot of the folks from the old days(60's-70") were still touring and were always willing to help and guide the younger folks. The around 89-90 they became real popular and the crowds got a lot bigger and the DEA came on tour full time the older folks said see ya, an headed for the hill's and only came around for west coast shows. It really is a great family. So many wonderful ,kind people who really care about each other , and the rest of humanity, and all life.
It really it sad to see how hard the rest of our species struggle. So unconnected and focused on material things when the kingdom of heavon can be right here on earth.
This is why psychedelics are so important. They can bring about that connection. That realization we are all in this together. We are all brothers and sister's.
Without psychedelics I don't have a lot of hope for are species.
--------------------------
A thumbprint doesn't blast you into sainthood. You don't go around with halo and bless people afterwards.Your a diiferent person with a different perception of the world.
I am still who I am ,but with a different perspective. My flaws are there. I became a herion addict many years after my first print. My life has had many wrong turns.
Psychedelics have always helped me focus. I still use them, but rarely.
What it has given me is faith. Seeing is believeing. I believe what I saw after death.
And it was ultimate perfection. When my life getts tireing, or I feel I am losing focus I can always trust in the knowing that eternity is there. When you can live your life knowing that death isn't something to fear ,but a great moment of transition back home. Then your outlook changes greatlly.
-------------------------”How do you prepare to take a thumbprint?”
You definatley need to fast for at least 24 hours beforehand. Just be ready to let go, but on a high dose you don't have a choice. The more you cling to yourself on the way up the more painful it is.
Be humble and try to dispell any fear beforehand.
Other than that there's not really anything thats going to prepare you for the experiance. As your ego vaporizes and you go out you'll come to the realization that your actually experiancing death. Let it happen,because at that point you have no choice. Then you are gone, or I should say then you are "ALL".
Upon your return to the physical world take your time. Don't try to figure stuff out to fast. You have the rest of your life to figure out what happened. Stay in the moment as long as possible. You will return eventually, but your perspective will be very different.
"If I knew the way, I would take you home"
On a thumbprint size dosage you no longer have any beliefs. There is no you. Reactions can vary on the way up, but soon all your beliefs, attitudes and perceptions completly vaporize along with physical reality.
None of it survives a print. There is no I anymore only ALL. Afterwards your beliefs are very different or they may be similar if your beliefs were close to the truth to begin with.
People can bullshit there way threw alot of intense psychedelic experiances. Somehow they can hold onto there twisted ego games sometimes. On a thumbprint thats not even a possibility. You can't bullshit Eternity when it's blasting you to pieces. The more you try to hold on the quicker and harder it burns you. You dissolve and dissolve till theres no you left to hold on.
On a print you can go quietly and easily or you can go kicking and screaming, but you are going to go no matter what.
---------------------------------
There isn't ever going to be any research on this. All we have is anceodotal evidence from those that have done it. For you this evidence won't be enough. For me it is. Why? Because I know hundreds if not over 1000 people that have done this. How many have had life altering effects that were harmful. None. My mind is bent but very well intact. I will be starting grad school soon. Most of the people I know who have printed lead very rich fufilling lives and are some of the most observant and kind people on earth. Many of these people have exelled greatly in the acedemic world.
As for research on thumbprints there isn't going to ever be any. I don't want there to be. It's a family thing.
We walk on faith alone.
Research into huge dose of LSD will give nothing to science it can use.
Research into the benifits of theraputic uses will. The treatment of mental problems with LSD is something that science can measure and validate. The use of huge doses of LSD in blasting people into eternity is something that can't. Also after you realize the difficulty in getting research moving there is absolutaly no way that there will ever be research done on humans using thumbprint doses. Its just not ever going to happen. And it shouldn't either. Thumbprints should be administered by the family in a family setting, not a hospital.
These are experiances ment for certian situations. Its of vital importance as your sliping away and crying and flopping around that the person holding your hand is a kind brother or sister who has been there before. It's easier to let go and let God when your with family.
Thumbprints arn't for doctors to study and measure ,but for those who wish to give themselves to our holy sacrement 100%.
People who are printed are people that are felt to be ready and able to reap the benifits from the experiance. If there was a research study done on thumbprints I have no doubt as to the outcome. Doctors can't screen for motivation of heart.
----------------------------
The thing about thumbprints is that after the first hour there is no you to create fear or trick your body into shutting down. We have taken BP and pulse of people on thumbprint size doses before and there is a slightly elevated BP and heart rate, but not to extreme. These were experianced people though, and there was no fear involved.
If you take someone with cardio problems that has little or no experiance with LSD and print them, then I could definatly see a bad outcome. It wouldn't be from physiological toxicology from LSD it would be from psychological trauma that interupted natural bio-rythims.IMO .
Really much lower doses have this potential also. We all know that our psychological state can greatly effect are physical state. Anybody can have there heart rate and BP go off the charts while there sitting still if the get mad enough. I have high BP myself and am on medication. My kids can annoy me so much sometimes that it sends it through the roof.
We can only speculate as to these hypothesis, as no studys will ever be done. The fact that these doses are usually only done by people ready for them greatly helps that there are so little negative outcomes.
Thats why I believe prints should be done in the mountians with family and not in a hospital like a lab rat.
One thing I have noticed is at print doses after the first hour when you have been vaporized and are completely gone breathing seems to stabalize. Before that the anxiety and fear have folks breathing like there in a marathon. After they have let go though it seems that the body continues to function quite normaly while there away. It's that first hour thats so traumatic.
There could be a dosage range though that can cause physiological harm. We don't know it and we never will, and people have survived more than a gram.
The limited literature on LSD indicates that after a certian amount increased dosages of LSD add nothing to the experiance. I have heard that this plateau is 500mcg. Lets just say 1000mcg. to be safe.
The difference between 1000mcg. and 100,000 mcg. is enormous.
Length and intensity both increase. Going by the "saturation level" logic this isn't possible. It becomes apparent rather quickly under the influence of a print that what is recorded about LSD plateau is wrong.
Whiterasta has spoken of other neurotransmitter systems becoming involved on print size doses. This seems logical to me. What exactly happens during thumbrints on the neurochemical level is something we don't know, but it becomes painfully clear that there is an increase in effect thats not placebo. At the miligram level I have trouble comparing doses of say 1 or 2 miligrams. I can tell little difference if any at all. On comparing doses of 1or 2 miligrams and 100mg. the doses are vastly different.
A couple weeks ago I did a little speck I would guess was somewere in the range of 2-3mg. Hadn't touched it in several years. Completely flattened me. The experiance was intense and hard(probably my last), but nothing in comparison to a thumbprint.
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I've seen Tornado juice(TJ) that was greenish before(80's).
Never worked with TJ much becuase it was shady.
It came out looking different(ie color and texture) every time.
Makes you wonder whats going on in the lab.
Amber, Lavander, TJ and Champange are all non-consistent.
I've seen Amber that was a beautiful light honey color and then
a month later their swinging some dark brown funky stuff.
I remember looking at some lavander under a jewelers glass once that
looked like it had oily dirt in it.
Heard about some shady silver around also. Probably some crappy lav thats bieng sold as silver to those who don't know better. The ethics of the current scene continue to twindle. Money sure has a way of polluting people.
Time to get the squirt guns out.
Please enjoy responsibly
My information is on how the Dead/rainbow/origanal family handle LSD.
When LSD crystal is bought it comes in little glass viles. It's a dense crystal and a gram of it looks alot smaller than a gram of coke or flour(or other powder). Ten grams can fit in a vile small enough to hold in your hand and clentch your fist and conceal.
Anyway as I said in my other thread when you first buy crystal from the family their's 2 requirement's. 1. You have to be taught how to lay it properly and be trusted to do so on your own. 2. You have to do a thumbprint. The family believes LSD crystal should only be handled by those with the proper energy or karma to do so. There's no better way to test somebodys faith of LSD than give them a thumbprint.
Originaly thumprints were given by taking the glass vile and puting your thumb over
the top of the vile and turning it and fliping it upside down real quick. This put a coating of crystal on your thumb which was pessed into the palm of the person ,leaving your crystal imbedded thumbrint in there palm(hence the term thumprint) where it would absorb(or they might lick it off.). This was your certification
Nowadays thumbprints are eaten. Any time someone eats crystal it's refered to as a print. This way was adopted because it's more efficiant.
As for the experiance itself. All reviever's are experianced with LSD(at least they think so until there printed
A thumprint doesn't open the door of perception it blows it off the hinges.
You melt into eternety. You let go and die into the moment which is all. There is no you anymore only all. The intensity of this can't be described, but you realize as your sliping away that it's familar.This is because it become quite clear this is exactlly what happens when you die. After an eternity you slowly start to come back in pieces. You feel reborn and a completely different person. You don't ever come completely down or back. This isn't a bad thing ,but it's very scary at first.
I won't try to describe it any more because I can't. Also after your experianced with eating crystal its a little less tramatic. Your first one is spent on the ground. After awhile I could eat crystal at shows and whatnot.
I have only seen one print go bad and I described this in my other thread. The guy says it's the most important event of his life and now lives happily so I guess it wasn't bad. His reaction at the time was.
I think psychedelics are safer in large doses(i'm not talking about thumbprint sizes though) as far as bad trips go. They override your ego's defenses in large enough doses. you can't think your having a bad trip because you can't think at all beacause there is no you.
It is hard to describe a thumbprint. Human language cannot describe an experiance that is encompasses all of life. Every cell of every creature or living thing that ever lived or will live is connected by the energy or light. When we die are body and our ego is gone. We become one with eternity or the light or God or whatever name you wish to call it. A thumbprint allows this to happen and rerturn to our physical body. My first print I layed down and quickly realized that this was my actual death. You watch the whole process unfold with complete awareness.
I didn't cling to my body I just realized my life had passed. As I was spiraling up or out I saw my life evolve through the years I lived. The happiness, the sadness,the people I loved and the people I didn't. The joy that I gave and the pain that I caused. I saw the true nature of reality and why things were the way they were. As I got higher I saw the nature of reality on the cosmic scale and saw that the reason for our evolution was to experiance love. To love is to have experianced the finest of life. Then came the moment were it was time to let go. As I did it came for me and I sobbed uncontrolabley for I realized that the light or energy we call god or creation was perfect. It was pure unconditional love.
What else could god have been I realized. That glint of innocent perfection in a baby's eye. The light was pure as the heart of Jesus Christ. I dissolved into it and died. Since there was no me only the all ,I cannot remember the rest because there was no me to remember. After forever I slowly decended into my body.
I spent days awake afterwards talking to myself. I vowed to god to spread LSD so others could see the light. I vowed to look at every person as the lord and treat them as such.
I was reborn and continue to live by the values I learned. I became as active as I could spreading LSD. Year after year in hotel rooms with a pyrex pan and watercolor paper. Hoping excitedly that some of these hit's will help guide my brothers and sisters back towards the light. LSD is a direct message from God. Period. I don't think we get another chance. We can love each other or we can kill each other ,but it is up to us. As I always say in my threads as a reminder, my work with LSD ended years ago.
As for eating and going to the bathroom. I don't think I ate for a week afterwards. As for going to the bathroom I hadn't eaten before hand at my guides advise so it wasn't a problem. I remember letting go as it got dark and coming back a lttle before sunrise. I was high for along time afterwards and as I said earlier you never fully return. I feel high all the time still and its been years.
Also I did many, many prints after that. I have eaten a lot of crystal but it was never like that first time.
I must stress that I was in the company of very evolved and older people that made sure my experiances were optimal. These were kind old spirits that had been were I was going many years before and many times. They held me as a baby every inch of the way.
You have heard of near death experiances right. A thumbprint is a beyond death experiance.
I have a rich life now thats full of good fortune. A wonderful wife and 3 children who are completely wonderful. Every day is complete joy. I couldn't ask for more, but I know it will end one day for good. I await this day with no fear ,but the knowlege that that most rewarding and enlightening experiance of life is death.
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Ok i'll tell you about the one that went bad.
This finds me in Oakland in the early 90's. Between tour's I would sit out in San Francisco and keep things flowing. Friends from the east coast would need shit so I would lay it and mail it or others would come out to get a lower price and I would lay it and send them on there way. Well a real good friend came out to get 4 or 5 grams.With him he had a few people. I told him he could help me lay it and to have his friends hang out in the city till were done. He says this friend of his is ready to come with us. Now I had talked to the guy before and knew he was connected to the rainbow family, but his energy seamed weird. trusting my friends judgement i said alright.
So we decide to drive over to oakland to lay it in a hotel. We get to some sleazy hotel out by the freeway and get ready. Now i'm a little edgy about this newbie watching, but as long as he stays out of the way it's fine. So we get to work and it takes quite awhile to lay 5 grams of acid. Thats 50 tenpack or 50,000 doses. Were done and cleanin up and he say my friend is ready for a print. I'm like are you sure and he says i think so. I look at his friend and he's like just give it to me I can handle it. So I get out my jar of silver crystal and knock some out on the nightstand because my friend wants to take some with him to do in the mountains.
Well this fuckin dude sticks his finger right in my pile of crystal and then licks it. I'm like thats a pretty hefty dose there soldier. He's like ya whatever now what do we do. Then I started to realize it was going to get weird. Within 2 minutes he's saying man my fuckin stomach hurt's that was poison. I'm like go in the bathroom your going to puke. He goes in there and and we hear him cussin and puking. Meanwhile i'm askin my friend what the hell he's got us into. Then the bathroom door opens and he comes out butt naked saying i'm gettin the fuck out of here.
Were like no man just chill your not going to be able to get far. We put him in the back bedroom and turn the lights out and figure thats best for him. I close the door and tell him if he needs me were there. I figure he's got some things to sort out with god. Now this hotel Is right on the freeway. In fact you can jump out the window onto it. Were also on the second floor. Well were sitting there and i'm making some phone calls telling people i'm going to be hung up for awhile and I hear cars on the freeway honking. We go back into the bedroom and he's halfway out the window, getting ready to jump onto the Oakland freeway naked as the day he was born.
We pull him back into the room and he's starting to realize he's dying.He thinks i'm causing him to die and i'm the devil. Now shit gets ugly. He's screaming at us that he's dieing and trying to get out of the hotel. Since I just layed 5 grams i'm high also as is my friend. We call some other friends to come over. Were holding him down on the bed trying to cover his mouth. We have 50,000 doses of freshly layed LSD in the room and I don't need the cops coming. I take the pan and all the supplies I used to lay with and throw them out the window onto the freeway.
My other friends get there and we tell the girls take the acid and get out of hear quick. This guy's screaming at the top of his lungs that he's dying and I know the other hotel guest's can here him. It's got to be any minute that the Oakland police show up. I'm telling him to let go ,don't fight it. He thinks i'm satan so he's not listening to anything I say. Also as we have been wrestling him he has lost control of his bodily fluids. There's puke ,shit and piss all over. I can't imagine what the cops are going to think when they come in and see a couple hippies on some guy covered in puke and shit screaming i'm dying as we tell him it's ok he'll like it.
After awhile he stops moving. He was sucked into eternity. He was gone. As he layed there motionless we cleaned him up. And my friend sang amazing grace over and over to him. After an hour passed I realized the cops hadn't came. I contribute this to 2 things. The protection of God and the fact we were in a nasty part of Oakland and people mind there own buisness.
My girl comes by and brings us clean shirts and pants. Itake a shower and clean up as they watch him and then we take turns. My nerves are frazzled. I'm high and this guys bad trip has really wigged me out. Me and my girl decide to go for a walk since my friends with him and he's not moving. We get out side and realize that going for a walk at 3 am in oakland isn't going to be good. She senses my tension and we go to the side of the hotel in some bushes were she layes me down and sets my mind at ease with that magic only a woman can perform.
As dawn breaks he's coming around. Talking incoherantly ,but I can see a sparkle in his eye. We all part ways and me and my girl head back to SF to get some sleep.
A day or two later my friend calls and says there heading home and to come say goodbye. I get there and this guy comes up to me and gives me a big hug and says he's sorry. I tell him don't worry about it. He then tells me that he met god and was a different person now. This makes me happy.
This man hasn't taken LSD since and lives in Oregon and owns a organic farm.
He's happy with a family and at peace.
He says that night was the most important and best thing that ever happened to him. I see him at the Oregon county fair every year and we always have a big hug.
he's turned into somebody i really admire and love.
After this incedent I became very carefull of who I printed.
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I started using LSD out of curiousety at age 13. I quickly realized that it was more than just a drug after some friends brought back some acid they got from a dead show.
as for graduating. Sure if you feel psychedelics are just a stepping stone in your evolution. Read Ram Das(richard Alpert) Be Here Now it's priceless and can help you with the transition. I don't take LSD anymore. I can't ,it takes to much to get me off and to long to come down. As a middle aged father of 3 and full time college student I don't have time to spend days on end tripping. I take 3-4 trips per year on a combo of shrooms and DMT . This gets me there and back quickly. I may do acid again someday and keep a little close at hand incase I need to. I have been serously courting the idea this month as it is the 60th aniversery of the first LSD trip in human history. I probably won't have time. And if I do it will probibly be a small dose(300mcg?) and a bicycle ride to honor Dr. Hoffman and our sacred sacrament. I doubt I will though. I know alot of people who have moved on from acid to meditation(something I'm addicted to) and yoga. There very happy and peaceful. I know others who are in there 60's and still dose. Whatever path you choose is fine as long as it is rewarding. Some people choose to take what they have learned and move on.
as for sending some "love" I no longer am involved with that sacred work at the underground level. This is why I can freely offer this information without risking the saftey of myself and the family
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People who use them for non-spiritual purposes are fine with me. The reasoning is that they may catch on and realize the value of the experiance. Lot's of people have just been looking for a new high when they find that LSD can provide so much more. The only thing that toubles me is when people are not responible with them and they get in trouble or have problems and the psychedelic gets blamed.
Also if people just use them as a way to get fucked up the'll more than likely eventually have a bad experiance, but thats there fault.
As for meditation its great your practising it. i wish i would have started younger.
If i don't meditate my day is alot more stressful. Meditation allows me to integrate the psychedelic world with my daily life. It gives me true balance.
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Yes the thumbprint is the ultimate test of trust. If somebody has been printed there family plain and simple. Print's are given to those who are ready and experianced. I learned the importance of this the hard way in Oakland
BTW what was your print? Mine have been White fluff,Needlepoint,silver,amber and one lavender.
Does a day ever pass for you that you don't feel it. I feel it every single day.
Yes every day of my life at some point I feel as if i'm dosed. I'm ok with that.
Meditation helps me smooth it out and enjoy it. For the most part i don't even notice it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ”Whiterasta”
Mine was a clean white crystaline beauty,not family acid, but guru made. I was an O Chem major with a wild side a mile wide and we met and over time he became much like a spiritual father.He would allow me to assist the "cook" and let me do column and lay up.Then one day in 78 he gave me a eighth oz of crystal and told me to "spread the word" and that he would be back after summer and then we'd talk more.So the summer of 78 I dosed 1000mics + daily all summer and played guru.In late august he came back and took a long look at me asked me if "I had made a lot of money over summer?" I replied "Money?" This was what he wanted to hear and it made him smile and say "Good, see ya tomorrow"
the next day we were going to prep the lab after his absence,clean, dust and such.When I showed up at the trailer he had a funny grin on his face and he said 'I hope you don't have plans." we went in his old lady was there,unusual,and she was holding a small watch glass with the crystal Spice in it.She said "honey it is time to grow up". They then told me to stick in my thumb and press.By then I was nervously curious and my hands were sweaty so i pulled my thumb free with a generous coating on it.I looked at it and I swear I could feel it starting then I stuck my thumb in my mouth and let go.The first hr or so I think I was in and out of the world then "I" just dissapeared for eternity.IMO part of me still is there.
I am facing death due to a botched angiogram and I know I will meet with the part of me which rides the eternal winds when my time is over.I know that death is a mere transition,I know this because I died that day in late 78 and arose again reborn.My priorities of life were refocused and I have been working to integrate the new paradigm of being which was created by that day every since.I think if a lesson or enlightenment came from this it is that I consciously participate in my life to a much greater degree.This is not the "easy' way to live in a world of injustice and cruelty.I have been forced to accept the balance of positive and negative w/o imposing my own desire. And I still must struggle mightily to integrate and exist in this society.My freinds old lady said it was time to grow up but she did not say I would outgrow myself.I have absolutly NO regrets although the changes in my mind and thought process have made interfacing with traditional thinking a challenge.I think I must give Sclorch fits with the way my mind takes classic philisophical thought and twists it about.I know that "holy men" have no clue regarding my spirituality.
Like China said every day I know I 'thumbprinted" but the funny thing is no matter how you rewire your brain life still bring the same challenges.I still have to stuggle with the challenges but I believe that I may have somewhat more novel solutions to some things than some others,but all in all I am remarkably Ward Cleaver considering.Any more only the wife,kids,and freinds really get the jist of my bent,and that is just fine with me.
One last thing,I have experienced literal death (heart stopped) and the irresistablity of death and strong psychadelic experience are quite similar.In Death one realizes the ineffable nature of the experience and resisting is futile,much like resisting a thumbprint,it is just NOT possible .
So now there are some of us out there who have customized our thinking but like the early hotrodders we somewhat haphazardly customized our brains.Like some of the early hot rods we may have some areas where we really perform well but drivability has been comprimised.But I have come to know and love all the lil idiosycrisies of my ole jalopy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ”Chinacat72”
Family is used to describe the brotherhood. There's the Dead family, rainbow family and there are familys of the varous types of crystal(exp.fluff family)
usually your part of more than one of these family's if not all of them. It's all family.
The network of the counterculture that started 40+ years ago.
We are a tribe or "family". Were the ones that "know" that were all brothers and sisters on this giant ball of rock hurtling through space.
When you travel beyond death to eternity with people you devlop a bond thats as strong as any family. We are the decendents of the summer of love and the psychedelic explosion of the sixties. We are also decendents of the indians and people of the earth who have occupied this mudball since the stone age.
In the end were all family. Every person and creature that ever lived or will. We all come from the same place and oneday return there. Every particle of energy in the cosmos is connected. It's just most people don't have a clue about this till they die. Those of us that realize these important revalations and try to live in accordance with them are the family.
Family buisness is completely different then the coke buisness.
The motivation for the coke buisness is money plain and simple. The family is made of people who believe that the work they do is sacred and money is not the motivation for all ,but a few.
As far as the way it's ran is very different than the coke world. For one there is absolute trust in your fellow associates. This is why we have thumbprints. To know that every body is on the level. Coke dealers and other dope dealers start snitching on each other at the first hint of trouble. That doesn't happen with the family and is why the DEA has never had any sucess in getting even close to the top. LSD is seen as sacred and to put your personal freedom before the security of this sacred system of important work would be a sin against all of man. If you don't think this way you don't have any right to carry on this tradition.
As for buisness details, I have been out of that line of work since 96. They constantly change and security is more sophisticated than you could imagine for a bunch of old hippies. I don't think my friends would approve of me giving details out on how this network moves so stealthly.
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Thumbprints are not weighed out. By todays dosage sizes the amount would be in the hundreds or higher. It's more like how many sheets would a thumbprint be not doses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ”Whiterasta”
3-5 sheets to the wind
Quote:
Originally Posted by ”Chinacat72”
There is a massive difference between 500mcg and a thumbprint.
There not even comparable trips. As for saturation effect this is from medical research in the 50's comparing doses of lsd. There may not be a notacable difference between 1000 and 2000 mcg. There is a huge difference between 1000mcg. and 40 or 50 mg. Of course the reseachers never ventured into this dosage range. As for Jonathon Ott and Ram Dass I would venture to say neither has had a thumbprint. The quote you printed of Ram Dass is dealing with tolerance anyway not saturation levels.Taking 2400mcg of acid a day for weeks would be alot different than taking 40,000mcg one time. I know close to a hundred people that have had thumbprints and each one would laugh there ass of if someone told them there was no difference between 500mcg. and 50,000mcg.
As for futher clarification try eating 500mcg. and a couple weeks later stick your finger in some LSD crystal and lick it. Then you can see just how similar experiances they are.
...
Once that amount of LSD is injested you are never the same,ever!!!
Most prints turn out very well. It's not like there made availble to anybody.
Usually the person is deemed ready by those who can tell.They are taken care of before and after the print by the family, this may take up to a week before your functioning again. Sometimes skeptics are printed, but there reactions are usually very, very shattering. It's hard when your whole belief system explodes and the truth is revealed. You basically have to start from scratch. All those years you thought you knew the truth and God, then in a matter of minutes you find you didn't know shit, then you die. . This is all related to first prints. Repeated prints later are less traumatic and not nearlly as shattering.
Most folks I know that have done prints rarely do LSD anymore. There's really know need to except for nostalgia. I do know one brother( who gave me my first print) who is in his mid sixties and still eats crystal.
I don't know if I ever will again. I have courted the idea , and mabye will again someday.
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It's affected me on so many different levels. Mentally it has changed my whole outlook on life and my perception of the world. Spiritually it has given me the absolute faith in eternity that can only be had from being eternity. My philosophy's are all based on my experiances. I no longer see the world as a bunch of seperate species and things, but a connected matrix of biology and energy that flows to and from a core that is the pure light of unconditional love.
Physically it's affected me in that you never come back down completely.
But why would you anyway? You can't look at the truth and then pertend you didn't see it and that it doesn't exist.
A thumbprint is a life long commitment.
As for visual activity ,it's constant. But I hardly notice it anymore.
Eternity is in the here an now. So is my life, so they constantly flow together or against each other. Meditation is key for me now.
I no longer consider my physical reality my true reality.
Shit man I can't explain this stuff. It's just not possible.
The more I explain ,the more I need to explain what I was trying to explain
I guess you could sum it up as Robert Hunter did after his night of 250,000mcg.
"I died 1000 deaths"
Thats what it really is, death. Most people live there lives unsure about what happens when we die. Even the most devoutlly religous have anxiety about the big moment.
I don't , I welcome it. Thats how its changed me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ”Whiterasta”
I did something similar the summer of '77 I ate 1000+mics every day for 90 days and yep I had a huge tolerance at the end of summer........I thought.Then in Sept when I should have been signing up for school I "Thumbprinted" And NO I only thought I had tolerance.After I came around to this reality again I did come down but was also "changed".I took complete control over my schooling and my life(as well as complete responsibility)
BTW Ram Das says he "came down" but he changed his name to Ram Das and wears white robes and even he admits LSD helped precipitate his change.One wonders what his opinion would have been had he instead of walking out of the house and coming down he would have taken 1/2 gram of crystal at the end of his experiment?
The 50-500 range will saturate the seratonin system however LSD also affects other receptors like dopamine and noradrenaline to a lesser degree, at ultradoses these effects come more strongly into play negating the plateau effect.
Enter the difference between 500mcgs and 10000+ is incomparable as is the mode of ingestion.The change begins as the crystals melt on your tongue and is totaly unlike eating a pile of prelayed paper.One senses his imminent ego death coming as the crystals are absorbed into the tongue.the knowledge that you are totaly in the care of family is what one clings to as long as concepts such as family contain meaning then one is simply....gone. When awareness returns it is changed and IMO forever.
I have to laugh when Ram Das says he "came down" returning sobriety is not the same as being unchanged One does come down from a print but NOT UNCHANGED.
I have had the privelidge of speaking with Ram Das on several occasions and to this older tripper his "mark" is as clear as if it were painted upon his forehead.
Oh yeah thats another "side effect" I can spot a serious tripper no matter how many yrs have elapsed since their last dose.You should see the suprise when I spring it on the "reformed"
I would have to say to you Enter that you should meet those who have had the experience in person if possible and judge for your self if their experience is valid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ”Chinacat72”
What have I done with my life thats different. Everything!! I spent 8 years in hotel rooms around the country dipping gram after gram of blotter in hopes that one of these hits will bring somebody into the light. For 8 years I spread as much LSD around the country as I could, not for personal gain ,but for the hopes that it would help get the human race back on track.
Now I am dedicated to becoming a part of the misniscule research movement into psychedelics. I am just getting my BS in psychology/pre-med. Next is grad school or med school. This is all for the sole purpose of working with psychedelics in addiction and othe mental disorders they have shown great promise in. Whether this will happen in my lifetime I don't know, but I will try to help as much as possible. So now i'm consentrated on getting my MD or PhD.
I aslo spend countless hours on this website trying to dispell the enormous amount of LSD rumors there are.
As for personal differences it's changed everything. The way I interact with the world and the way I see it. It also brings me great sorrow to have been a part of a movement were the kind, beautiful potential of human relationships were reasized and then to see the rest of the world and how far off track it is.
As for the lord, I realize I have used this term in the past. Thats a mistake on my part because it ties in with the orthadox religions such as christianity and Islam.
I want no part of these religions and feel they do much more harm than good.
I do have faith in Eternity(my word for God). Seeing is believing
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Just started going to Dead shows and finally said fuck it in 86 and did tour full time. When you travel around the country and see the same folks that are doing the same thing you are you get close to them. It really is a big family. In that time period alot of the folks from the old days(60's-70") were still touring and were always willing to help and guide the younger folks. The around 89-90 they became real popular and the crowds got a lot bigger and the DEA came on tour full time the older folks said see ya, an headed for the hill's and only came around for west coast shows. It really is a great family. So many wonderful ,kind people who really care about each other , and the rest of humanity, and all life.
It really it sad to see how hard the rest of our species struggle. So unconnected and focused on material things when the kingdom of heavon can be right here on earth.
This is why psychedelics are so important. They can bring about that connection. That realization we are all in this together. We are all brothers and sister's.
Without psychedelics I don't have a lot of hope for are species.
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A thumbprint doesn't blast you into sainthood. You don't go around with halo and bless people afterwards.Your a diiferent person with a different perception of the world.
I am still who I am ,but with a different perspective. My flaws are there. I became a herion addict many years after my first print. My life has had many wrong turns.
Psychedelics have always helped me focus. I still use them, but rarely.
What it has given me is faith. Seeing is believeing. I believe what I saw after death.
And it was ultimate perfection. When my life getts tireing, or I feel I am losing focus I can always trust in the knowing that eternity is there. When you can live your life knowing that death isn't something to fear ,but a great moment of transition back home. Then your outlook changes greatlly.
-------------------------”How do you prepare to take a thumbprint?”
You definatley need to fast for at least 24 hours beforehand. Just be ready to let go, but on a high dose you don't have a choice. The more you cling to yourself on the way up the more painful it is.
Be humble and try to dispell any fear beforehand.
Other than that there's not really anything thats going to prepare you for the experiance. As your ego vaporizes and you go out you'll come to the realization that your actually experiancing death. Let it happen,because at that point you have no choice. Then you are gone, or I should say then you are "ALL".
Upon your return to the physical world take your time. Don't try to figure stuff out to fast. You have the rest of your life to figure out what happened. Stay in the moment as long as possible. You will return eventually, but your perspective will be very different.
"If I knew the way, I would take you home"
On a thumbprint size dosage you no longer have any beliefs. There is no you. Reactions can vary on the way up, but soon all your beliefs, attitudes and perceptions completly vaporize along with physical reality.
None of it survives a print. There is no I anymore only ALL. Afterwards your beliefs are very different or they may be similar if your beliefs were close to the truth to begin with.
People can bullshit there way threw alot of intense psychedelic experiances. Somehow they can hold onto there twisted ego games sometimes. On a thumbprint thats not even a possibility. You can't bullshit Eternity when it's blasting you to pieces. The more you try to hold on the quicker and harder it burns you. You dissolve and dissolve till theres no you left to hold on.
On a print you can go quietly and easily or you can go kicking and screaming, but you are going to go no matter what.
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There isn't ever going to be any research on this. All we have is anceodotal evidence from those that have done it. For you this evidence won't be enough. For me it is. Why? Because I know hundreds if not over 1000 people that have done this. How many have had life altering effects that were harmful. None. My mind is bent but very well intact. I will be starting grad school soon. Most of the people I know who have printed lead very rich fufilling lives and are some of the most observant and kind people on earth. Many of these people have exelled greatly in the acedemic world.
As for research on thumbprints there isn't going to ever be any. I don't want there to be. It's a family thing.
We walk on faith alone.
Research into huge dose of LSD will give nothing to science it can use.
Research into the benifits of theraputic uses will. The treatment of mental problems with LSD is something that science can measure and validate. The use of huge doses of LSD in blasting people into eternity is something that can't. Also after you realize the difficulty in getting research moving there is absolutaly no way that there will ever be research done on humans using thumbprint doses. Its just not ever going to happen. And it shouldn't either. Thumbprints should be administered by the family in a family setting, not a hospital.
These are experiances ment for certian situations. Its of vital importance as your sliping away and crying and flopping around that the person holding your hand is a kind brother or sister who has been there before. It's easier to let go and let God when your with family.
Thumbprints arn't for doctors to study and measure ,but for those who wish to give themselves to our holy sacrement 100%.
People who are printed are people that are felt to be ready and able to reap the benifits from the experiance. If there was a research study done on thumbprints I have no doubt as to the outcome. Doctors can't screen for motivation of heart.
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The thing about thumbprints is that after the first hour there is no you to create fear or trick your body into shutting down. We have taken BP and pulse of people on thumbprint size doses before and there is a slightly elevated BP and heart rate, but not to extreme. These were experianced people though, and there was no fear involved.
If you take someone with cardio problems that has little or no experiance with LSD and print them, then I could definatly see a bad outcome. It wouldn't be from physiological toxicology from LSD it would be from psychological trauma that interupted natural bio-rythims.IMO .
Really much lower doses have this potential also. We all know that our psychological state can greatly effect are physical state. Anybody can have there heart rate and BP go off the charts while there sitting still if the get mad enough. I have high BP myself and am on medication. My kids can annoy me so much sometimes that it sends it through the roof.
We can only speculate as to these hypothesis, as no studys will ever be done. The fact that these doses are usually only done by people ready for them greatly helps that there are so little negative outcomes.
Thats why I believe prints should be done in the mountians with family and not in a hospital like a lab rat.
One thing I have noticed is at print doses after the first hour when you have been vaporized and are completely gone breathing seems to stabalize. Before that the anxiety and fear have folks breathing like there in a marathon. After they have let go though it seems that the body continues to function quite normaly while there away. It's that first hour thats so traumatic.
There could be a dosage range though that can cause physiological harm. We don't know it and we never will, and people have survived more than a gram.
The limited literature on LSD indicates that after a certian amount increased dosages of LSD add nothing to the experiance. I have heard that this plateau is 500mcg. Lets just say 1000mcg. to be safe.
The difference between 1000mcg. and 100,000 mcg. is enormous.
Length and intensity both increase. Going by the "saturation level" logic this isn't possible. It becomes apparent rather quickly under the influence of a print that what is recorded about LSD plateau is wrong.
Whiterasta has spoken of other neurotransmitter systems becoming involved on print size doses. This seems logical to me. What exactly happens during thumbrints on the neurochemical level is something we don't know, but it becomes painfully clear that there is an increase in effect thats not placebo. At the miligram level I have trouble comparing doses of say 1 or 2 miligrams. I can tell little difference if any at all. On comparing doses of 1or 2 miligrams and 100mg. the doses are vastly different.
A couple weeks ago I did a little speck I would guess was somewere in the range of 2-3mg. Hadn't touched it in several years. Completely flattened me. The experiance was intense and hard(probably my last), but nothing in comparison to a thumbprint.
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I've seen Tornado juice(TJ) that was greenish before(80's).
Never worked with TJ much becuase it was shady.
It came out looking different(ie color and texture) every time.
Makes you wonder whats going on in the lab.
Amber, Lavander, TJ and Champange are all non-consistent.
I've seen Amber that was a beautiful light honey color and then
a month later their swinging some dark brown funky stuff.
I remember looking at some lavander under a jewelers glass once that
looked like it had oily dirt in it.
Heard about some shady silver around also. Probably some crappy lav thats bieng sold as silver to those who don't know better. The ethics of the current scene continue to twindle. Money sure has a way of polluting people.
Time to get the squirt guns out.
ndangerspecimen101
Well-Known Member
Thanks for forwarding the knowledge Mr. Canuck! I believe I read that excerpt on another forum... its a vere close knit forum with one of the most knowledgable alchemist, known as: The Nook!
CaNNaBiZ CaNucK
Well-Known Member
Ah yes, I think I know who you speak of.. Does he go by 'Nanook of the North' as well? Very knowledgeable.
I always enjoy reading both of these threads every once in a while. Glad to spread the wisdom. Cheers!
ndangerspecimen101
Well-Known Member
We all love to reminiscence
growdankbuds
Well-Known Member
lsd knowledge isnt as prevelant as other substances, I hear the stupidest things about lsd, people making speculations thats obviously not dropped. I think it comes back to familys not wanting the knowledge to be givin to just anybody you had to be worthy. Lsd reminds me of diamonds for some reason.
ndangerspecimen101
Well-Known Member
Yes, diamonds as we know are a bloody struggle to get.... people die for it! LSD is one of the most widely studied psychedelic... you don't want to know how much the government spent on testing it! Why do you think the government frowns upon it so much, because it has so many possibilities!
CaNNaBiZ CaNucK
Well-Known Member
I love that metaphor for LSD.. Diamonds in the rough!
Just to add to your thoughts..
From psychiatric to military applications LSD has been studied up and down and all around. It was studied for 25 years before it was made illegal in '68. They saw the benefits, but also realized through the hippie movement that spiritual use can bring about massive paradigm shifts within the general public which scared the pants off them. Hence, prohibition.
Michael Phelps
Well-Known Member
Canuck great read my friend! I read the first post on the family a few months ago but like you said always way interesting to read! I gotta say the thumbprint sounds way intense, i def agree when they say he says it should be given to only people with lots of experience under supervision and that it should only be given to those who truly view lsd as a sacrament of sorts, those who truly respect it for everything it is. I know personally i couldnt handle that kind of dose, i have to many unresolved personal issues for that...
shawnskates
Member
well that sounds awesome but i have never tripped before. i have taken triple c's when i was younger but i didnt really see stuff it just made reality WEIRD. so what would someone suggest i try for the first time. shrooms, acid, LSD and where do u find this stuff online or should i jus do it the old fashioned way and ask around
CaNNaBiZ CaNucK
Well-Known Member
I have mixed feelings towards prints. On one hand, it could be a life shatteringly positive experience, and on the other, it could be a life shattering experience with serious reprecussions. It's not for the faint of heart, I'm sure. I think I'm happy with 'normal' doses, as they can be extremely tranformational as well. Chinacat72 claims that out of hundreds of prints he witnessed there weren't any longterm negative effects, but I'd be interested in hearing from those today who may not have had such a strong mindset.
CaNNaBiZ CaNucK
Well-Known Member
The old fashioned way is always a good route to take. But be sure to prepare yourself with a positive mindset and be situated in very comfortable surroundings with comfortable people with whom you feel safe. DO NOT venture out on your own with first time psychedelic expceriences. There is no way to truly prepare yourself; just be open, thoughtful and positive. Be safe.